Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on December 25, 2012, 07:04:14 PM
-
Available Wednesday night.
-
we've managed to become relegation fodder in less than 3 years.
-
I feel worse about our season today than I did before we played Liverpool.
-
Utter garbage, lambert has escaped a lot of flak but he needs to sort this out and fast- totally unacceptable and a disgrace over the last 2 games!
-
KEA shit
Delph shit
Herd not good enough
Missed weimann and bannan
Couldnt keep possession or pass properly
Just lacked everything
Piss poor performance, havent seemed interested at all, atleast with people leaving 15 mins before the end there wont be much traffic
-
Absolute garbage from start to finish but as boring as it was having been stuffed 8~0 previously the stifling tactics were working. Cue the biggest tactical blunder ever. Bringing Ireland on for Baker. I blame Lambert now pure and simple.
-
Too many kids, not enough experience.
Wigan is CRITICAL.
-
Too many kids, not enough experience.
Wigan is CRITICAL.
We're bloody critical
Intensive care required!
-
Shit utter utter shit.
Spineless
Weak
Shit
Randy needs to back his manager or fuck off.
-
Buy or relegation beckons.
-
What's left to say that hasn't been said already, I find this just so debilitating, year after year of crap now and the only common denominator is Lerner. Exhausted by it all and I now have a headache. I am utterly fed up. Disgusting and embarrassing. I am ashamed of us at the moment and I'm very sorry to say that
-
Lambert had better have some fantastic plans for January, or it's time for him to fuck off.
-
we've managed to become relegation fodder in less than 3 years.
3 years? I make it 11 days.
-
At least we're keeping our thrashings down to four >:(
-
I am seriously worried now!
-
We need buys this Jan or we are down. Playing so many unproven youngsters in this league is crazy.
-
Lambert had better have some fantastic plans for January, or it's time for him to fuck off.
I don't think you can blame him. The club has been mismanaged for years. Give him time and money to sort it out....
-
All Phil Dowd's fault clearly he told are players (Sunday) they were going to lose no matter what. Everything seems to stem from that, head's ain't gone be high after 8-0 thumping 72 hours later! 7 Senior players injured with no competition for Benteke who has been poor and needs dropping but for who? Jordan Graham?
-
we've managed to become relegation fodder in less than 3 years.
Pal we HAVE been relegation fodder since August 2010. And it don't look like the owners are too concerned.
-
What a Christmas let's hope our fortunes turn around pretty soon.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
-
We need buys this Jan or we are down. Playing so many unproven youngsters in this league is crazy.
Don't think the manager has much of a choice.
-
Lambert had better have some fantastic plans for January, or it's time for him to fuck off.
I don't think you can blame him. The club has been mismanaged for years. Give him time and money to sort it out....
Agreed. we must invest
-
Wow where is the heart ? :-\
-
Delph, Ireland and KEA should never wear the shirt again. Lerner we need £30m next week.
-
I can't recall such a shift over such a short space of time, since the Liverpool game. The Wigan game is so crucial now, as they're one of only about 4 sides I can really see finishing below us. And we look to be going into it devoid of confidence and rapidly running out of options to play all over the pitch. If we don't get some players back from injury, and given delph is suspended, baker and possibly Westwood may be injury doubts, I struggle to see how we're going to win it. Surely we must have some players back from injury soon!?!
-
crappy fookin christmas and a crappy new year :(
-
I am sure the General feels our pain too. In our darkest moments, we must take strength from that...
-
We need buys this Jan or we are down. Playing so many unproven youngsters in this league is crazy.
Ultimately, yes, that is the top and bottom of it.
It's not going to be fixed by more of the same, it is not going to be fixed by low wage players, either. It is going to require more money, or, no matter how good the manager is or admirable his approach to the game, we are going to get relegated.
-
Utterly terrible, there wont be enough hyperbole in this thread to express how much of an embaressment this current team is
-
I'm in the money which i'll gladly take. I really hate that Wanker Ireland before the game i popped into William Hill and had to spurs to win 0-4 at 66-1. We are by far the shittest team in the league and come May we will get what we deserve.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
-
I'm struggling to find a word to describe that. Execrable?
-
6 more wins to stay up? I can't see 6 points at the moment. For the first time in my life I am getting embarrassed about being a Villa supporter.
-
Well, I'm really having doubts about Lambert. That's pretty much 'his team' playing today, and they were shite. I know there's a few injuries, but can we honestly say that Gabby and N'Zogbia would have us doing much better?
At the moment, I suspect it's the last two performances that tell us more about the team than the two before them. Very worrying.
-
I suppose Lerner has been tucking into his turkey dinner in America and hasn't seen that shower of shite over tgeblast couple of games. Simply embarrassing, serious money needs spending, and spending carefully or we're doomed
-
It's worrying...for all that was bad with us in the last few seasons, I can't remember getting such comprehensive spankings, and then some.
Injuries haven't helped but he's gonna have to spend in January or it will be touch and go again this season.
Only factor that I can cling on to is that we can forget about how we do against the top 6, it's how we do against the rest that will define the season...
-
We need buys this Jan or we are down. Playing so many unproven youngsters in this league is crazy.
Don't think the manager has much of a choice.
I know. It is not the manger`s fault for some of them.
-
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=turd&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=en&biw=1276&bih=684&tbm=isch&tbnid=K4PXJb0P1wKXqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.fastfancydress.co.uk/StickyDogPoofaketurd.html&docid=ODH5nE6FqDkmEM&imgurl=http://www.fastfancydress.co.uk/templates/imagedirectory/sticky%252520poo%252520turd.jpg&w=300&h=252&ei=BFDbULypHMSb0QXi5oCACg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=740&vpy=221&dur=969&hovh=201&hovw=240&tx=160&ty=106&sig=100231596673183057445&page=3&tbnh=147&tbnw=174&start=58&ndsp=37&ved=1t:429,r:92,s:0,i:436
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
If the pressure is the wage bill, it doesn't matter how much he spends, because ultimately, the players are going to be of a certain standard.
Practically speaking, what would we do if we sacked Lambert? Who would we appoint? What would they do?
Ultimately, nothing will change at this club until the chairman fucking wakes up and takes a look at the laughing stock we've been for most of the last three seasons.
-
9 goals let in the the last two second halves. Because we have given up the possession football the players just tire and let in the mistakes even more.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight , lack of leadership is staggering.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
20M is a drop in the ocean for what we need to spend to turn us into a top 6 team again....
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
20M is a drop in the ocean for what we need to spend to turn us into a top 6 team again....
Forget any idea of becoming a top six team for years yet.
We have to focus on proving we deserve to be a Premier League side, because on the evidence of the last two games, and many games before that, we don't
-
Aston Villa's soul is being sucked out of it by the owners. The whole pride and tradition is being disrespected by their acceptance of such utter shit.
We are ecoming a laughing stock whether we like it or not. Last year was dreadful. This summer should have been like the summer of 1995. Good Premier League standard players should have come in to give us a lift. Sure we unearthed some gems, but they should have been complimenting the likes of a Draper, Southgate, Milosevic.
This is an unforgiving league. I bet that twat Martinez is licking his lips at the prospect of playing us. That is the sad reality of Aston Villa FC after six years of the Lerner era.
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
-
In the last 2 matches we have been as bad as I have seen in 22 years following the team.It's embarrassing right now.
TBH I have at a loss as to how we beat Norwich and Liverpool in fact looking at the last 2 games I am surprised we have been able to beat anyone.I'd point out we were as equally inept against Everton and Soton this season too.
-
I'm struggling to find a word to describe that. Execrable?
I think 'excrement' is the word you're looking for!
I will never be anything but proud to support Villa, but fuck me I'm embarassed as all hell right now about it. I am left with two questions after this less-than-festive period:
1. How have we managed to completely and utterly disintegrate in the last two games?
and
2. Why is all the rum gone?
-
why cant we pass and move and pass again , why ? :'(
-
Fucking absymal. Reaction? where was it? that was atrocious on every level. Delph, KEA, Albrighton, Herd, Ireland all may as well go.
-
First half was like time travel back to MON games at Villa Park. Clueless with the ball, no ideas and 8 in defence.
Second half we tried to play a more open game, showed early signs of improvement but punished due to poor defending from the make shift back four.
We need players back, leadership and some experience bought in NEXT WEEK during the transfer window.
You can't expect the kids to drive the car, no matter how much potential they have when their feet don't reach the pedals.
-
Shocking. I just hope Lambert
knows how to turn this round, tho I'm beginning to wonder.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
What: guzan, Lowton, Westwood, Benteke?
I agree about kea and Bennett unproven to date
We've struggled under three consecutive managers. That's not a coincidence
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
That is only half the story, though, and it's not the most important half.
The players came from the lower leagues and selling leagues in Europe, where wages are much lower. They are (comparatively) low wage players, and the signs are that the club wants more of the higher wage earners out of the club.
The reason so many of these players (both ones we bought and grew) look out of their depth is because they are.
-
1 we played 2 game teams
with the wrong tactics and application
2 I drank it for you ;)
-
Lambert had better have some fantastic plans for January, or it's time for him to fuck off.
See, I don't get this. We have a manager who the majority of us wanted. If it happened to another club and they sacked a manager after six months, they'd be a laughing stock and too impatient. It would be unacceptable. But we have two (admittedly very heavy) defeats just after we reach a cup semi final and beat Liverpool and it's okay for us to start going for ultimatums? We're poor. We lost. Move on, we'll win again some time and everything will be rosy.
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
Agree with this common sense post lacking the hysterical notes of most others
-
Fuck me, good job the house is full of booze.
-
Was Westwood definitely injured? If he and baker are out then god help us. They're about the only two leaders in the side
-
The club is certainly in the giving mood this year,
-12 in two games. For christ's sake, buncha ponies out there. Grow up Villa.
-
I turned down an invitation to a christmas soiree to stay at home and watch that shit on tv tonight. So its not all bad.
-
Watching them live, I was surprised how easily we were shrugged off the ball by Spurs. Also how many of our players just could not control and pass it without any pressure, let alone with a player on them.
-
I'm even embarrassed to go downstairs and face my family and in laws who don't know the result. I'm in such a bloody bad mood
-
Lichaj, Herd, Bennett, and Holman are not very good players. The rest are distinctly average. Bentekes OK, but even he's been crap for the last two games. Good luck Lambert, you will need it..
-
I thought in the 5-3-2 Bennett looked to have potential first half.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
20M is a drop in the ocean for what we need to spend to turn us into a top 6 team again....
Forget any idea of becoming a top six team for years yet.
We have to focus on proving we deserve to be a Premier League side, because on the evidence of the last two games, and many games before that, we don't
What should we aspire to be then? Stoke?
-
Lambert had better have some fantastic plans for January, or it's time for him to fuck off.
See, I don't get this. We have a manager who the majority of us wanted. If it happened to another club and they sacked a manager after six months, they'd be a laughing stock and too impatient. It would be unacceptable. But we have two (admittedly very heavy) defeats just after we reach a cup semi final and beat Liverpool and it's okay for us to start going for ultimatums? We're poor. We lost. Move on, we'll win again some time and everything will be rosy.
Wise words of course but we are all just very upset at the moment and so we all get things out of perspective. I think a little allowance is needed in such circumstances as emotions are running understandably high...
-
I've not been at all convinced by anything I have seen of Bennett.
Lichaj has looked even worse.
-
Lambert had better have some fantastic plans for January, or it's time for him to fuck off.
See, I don't get this. We have a manager who the majority of us wanted. If it happened to another club and they sacked a manager after six months, they'd be a laughing stock and too impatient. It would be unacceptable. But we have two (admittedly very heavy) defeats just after we reach a cup semi final and beat Liverpool and it's okay for us to start going for ultimatums? We're poor. We lost. Move on, we'll win again some time and everything will be rosy.
I kind of agree, also beating Norwich and Liverpool was then hyped up by the media, we were never that good but losing the last 2 dose not make us any worse than before, but you do worry about confidence
-
The main reason we lost is because we're not very good and are in a relegation battle and Spurs are very good and chasing a Champions League place. In your face Hansen.
-
I thought in the 5-3-2 Bennett looked to have potential first half.
Too soon to write Bennett off but the young lads need some experienced players to help them .
-
Out muscled all over the pitch same as Chelsea it's men against boys.
We started nervous but someone kept it to 0-0 started brightly 2nd half with the subs of Ireland making a difference but once they scored you knew it was all over and again it was a matter of how many.
12 goals conceded in 2 games worst GD in league.We are in a mountain of trouble even Westwood and Benteke who have been so good lately were poor today.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
20M is a drop in the ocean for what we need to spend to turn us into a top 6 team again....
Forget any idea of becoming a top six team for years yet.
We have to focus on proving we deserve to be a Premier League side, because on the evidence of the last two games, and many games before that, we don't
What should we aspire to be then? Stoke?
I am not saying we shouldn't aspire to being a top six club, of course we should.
I'm just pointing out that right now, our immediate aspirations are way, way below that level.
-
I think the makings of a decent side are there. Lambert has made some good signings, but most of them are kids. Vlaar was a good addition, too. But the most important one, the one in the pivotal position that he absolutely had to get right, was KEA, and frankly he's just a piss poor version of Reo Coker. The midfield is slow and shit.
We lack a dominant presence, we don't have enough bite and athleticism in there, and we don't have enough drive and pacy aggression. In short, we need two new midfielders, both seasoned pros able to slot straight in: one a battler and leader, and one a tricky player who can beat a man and run at a defence.
-
Bentekes OK, but even he's been crap for the last two games. Good luck Lambert, you will need it..
Believing his own hype suddenly after Shearer praised him up as the best around? The amount of times he tried to lay the ball off first touch when it needed someone to hold onto it put us under massive pressure. Although saved, was he offside for the only shot on target from us in the game?
-
I thought in the 5-3-2 Bennett looked to have potential first half.
Yeah, I think Bennett is a solid enough full-back too, to be honest. He and Lowton will do just fine, I think. With Vlaar back I think the defence will probably be OK.
But the midfield......
-
KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON SUPPORTING VILLA
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
Agree with this common sense post lacking the hysterical notes of most others
Some of us are venting our spleen because we are in pain at the moment. Give us a day or two and we will start to see reason and look at the big picture...
-
I turned down an invitation to a christmas soiree to stay at home and watch that shit on tv tonight. So its not all bad.
I turned down a free ticket mainly because of transport issues though.
-
We lack a dominant presence, we don't have enough bite and athleticism in there, and we don't have enough drive and pacy aggression. In short, we need two new midfielders, both seasoned pros able to slot straight in: one a battler and leader, and one a tricky player who can beat a man and run at a defence.
Yup.
I reckon that's about right.
The problem is - we need to buy them all in January, which is never easy, and we need to persuade the chairman to add them to the wage bill, which I suspect will be even less easy.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
20M is a drop in the ocean for what we need to spend to turn us into a top 6 team again....
Forget any idea of becoming a top six team for years yet.
We have to focus on proving we deserve to be a Premier League side, because on the evidence of the last two games, and many games before that, we don't
What should we aspire to be then? Stoke?
I get the impression that's who the owner aspires to
-
Wonder what shite Lambore will trot out. Simply not anywhere near good enough.
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
Agree with this common sense post lacking the hysterical notes of most others
Some of us are venting our spleen because we are in pain at the moment. Give us a day or two and we will start to see reason and look at the big picture...
But what if the big picture isn't much good, either?!
-
Men against boys. Utterly appalling performance yet again.
Lets hope Lerner comes to his senses in January and buys proper PL players to replace the lower league shit we have our squad, because his cost cutting exercise will result in our relegation otherwise.
Let's face it Villa fans, we're relegation fodder.
-
Not sure why Delph is getting the stick, at least he tried to be positive, and kept trying.
Lowtons poor positional play , yet again , gave 2 goals away, and i've never been sure why Clark is so highly rated.
Unfortunately, we don't judge ourselves against Spuds and Chelsk anymore, more against teams like Wigan.If we win on Saturday we are 6 points out of relegation, the time to worry is on sat if we don't win.
I've always been a fan of Ireland, but he looked inexcusably disinterested tonight, and Albrighton keeps giving the ball away.
The truth is, that out of KEA, Westwood, Bannan and Delph, only one of them should be playing,alongside a big powerful, strong athletic defensive midfielder.Holman is no more than a squad player, as is Gabby.Benteke needs better support.I actually thinlk Bennett is a better FB than Lowton.
If we have the money, then we need at least 2 players now, good quality players who will come in straight to the 1st team.Players who will cost at least £10m each.Then in the summer get rid of the over paid dross like Gabby, Ireland Given and Dunne, and invest in good up and coming players with a bit of pride, but a lot of ability.
Good crowd support at the end, we need it, no point getting rid of PL, can't afford it, get us back to square 1.
UTV
-
We lack a dominant presence, we don't have enough bite and athleticism in there, and we don't have enough drive and pacy aggression. In short, we need two new midfielders, both seasoned pros able to slot straight in: one a battler and leader, and one a tricky player who can beat a man and run at a defence.
Yup.
I reckon that's about right.
The problem is - we need to buy them all in January, which is never easy, and we need to persuade the chairman to add them to the wage bill, which I suspect will be even less easy.
I think he could be persuaded to cough up if someone shows him the league table. It worked when Houllier asked him to buy Bent. A businessman has to protect his investment, after all.
-
Not sure why Delph is getting the stick, at least he tried to be positive, and kept trying.
Lowtons poor positional play , yet again , gave 2 goals away, and i've never been sure why Clark is so highly rated.
Unfortunately, we don't judge ourselves against Spuds and Chelsk anymore, more against teams like Wigan.If we win on Saturday we are 6 points out of relegation, the time to worry is on sat if we don't win.
I've always been a fan of Ireland, but he looked inexcusably disinterested tonight, and Albrighton keeps giving the ball away.
The truth is, that out of KEA, Westwood, Bannan and Delph, only one of them should be playing,alongside a big powerful, strong athletic defensive midfielder.Holman is no more than a squad player, as is Gabby.Benteke needs better support.I actually thinlk Bennett is a better FB than Lowton.
If we have the money, then we need at least 2 players now, good quality players who will come in straight to the 1st team.Players who will cost at least £10m each.Then in the summer get rid of the over paid dross like Gabby, Ireland Given and Dunne, and invest in good up and coming players with a bit of pride, but a lot of ability.
Good crowd support at the end, we need it, no point getting rid of PL, can't afford it, get us back to square 1.
UTV
Agreed but no chance. If wages are the priority then we are not going to be signing any 10 mil players.
-
Guzan - solid, keep
Lowton ~ two years more experience needed
Bennett ~ three more years experience needed
Herd ~ never good enough go.
Clark ~ not a centre half, keep but in midfield.
Holman ~ a trier but not good enough I'm afraid ~ go.
Delph ~ never good enough. Go.
Albrighton ~ one season wonder, not good enough. Go.
Ireland. Good enough, no heart. Keep on account of lack of other options.
El Ahmadi ~ not good enough. Go.
Benteke ~ good enough but not there yet. Keep.
-
Evidently it was the Liverpool game, and not the Chelsea one, that was the one-off.
Paulie's absolutely right though: our current plight has less to do with Lambert and everything to do with Lerner. Having lurched from wasting money to scrimping, and from Houllier to TSM to Lambert (with the abrupt change of styles with each appointment), he's now asking a relative tyro in the Premier League to stay up on a budget while playing attractive football.
Lambert can stay but I have to say I'd be mightily relieved if Lerner bogged off tomorrow.
-
We lack a dominant presence, we don't have enough bite and athleticism in there, and we don't have enough drive and pacy aggression. In short, we need two new midfielders, both seasoned pros able to slot straight in: one a battler and leader, and one a tricky player who can beat a man and run at a defence.
Yup.
I reckon that's about right.
The problem is - we need to buy them all in January, which is never easy, and we need to persuade the chairman to add them to the wage bill, which I suspect will be even less easy.
I think he could be persuaded to cough up if someone shows him the league table. It worked when Houllier asked him to buy Bent. A businessman has to protect his investment, after all.
Lambert's comments earlier about how if KEA goes to the ACN we'll have to cope without him don't instill me with much confidence.
-
Awesome response from the holte end for the last 10 mins. It's important the young players out there know we're still behind them.
Gutted we've shipped 12 goals in 2 games. But with some signings hopefully we can turn this around. We've seen that out team can play but the last two games show we're a million miles away from the top 8
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
20M is a drop in the ocean for what we need to spend to turn us into a top 6 team again....
Forget any idea of becoming a top six team for years yet.
We have to focus on proving we deserve to be a Premier League side, because on the evidence of the last two games, and many games before that, we don't
What should we aspire to be then? Stoke?
I am not saying we shouldn't aspire to being a top six club, of course we should.
I'm just pointing out that right now, our immediate aspirations are way, way below that level.
Our immediate aim must be to avoid relegation comfortably. Next comes mid table safety after that top six and trying to get a successful European competition under our belt.
If it takes 5 years how much will it cost? If Randy wont finance it then it wont happen. The financing has to start now or Randy needs to sell up or we will be in this position year after year until we will get relegated.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
20M is a drop in the ocean for what we need to spend to turn us into a top 6 team again....
Forget any idea of becoming a top six team for years yet.
We have to focus on proving we deserve to be a Premier League side, because on the evidence of the last two games, and many games before that, we don't
What should we aspire to be then? Stoke?
I get the impression that's who the owner aspires to
Stoke are owned by a decent businessman though, which is not something Lerner could ever hope to be.
-
Holman is no more than a squad player, as is Gabby.
I agree. But a good nine-tenths of our squad is currently comprised of squad players, and that's why we can't perform consistently.
-
I am so angry i dont know what to do with myself, not celebrate christmas though , bollox to it all >:(
-
Lambert should be thankful he has Lerner as chairman- forest have tonight sacked their boss and they won 4-2 today.
-
Oh well the cheeseboard and booze is calling me, time to wipe the memory. Tara a bit....
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
Agree with this common sense post lacking the hysterical notes of most others
Some of us are venting our spleen because we are in pain at the moment. Give us a day or two and we will start to see reason and look at the big picture...
But what if the big picture isn't much good, either?!
Don't even go there....
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
Agree with this common sense post lacking the hysterical notes of most others
I have always agreed with Ozz in general and completely support common sense but after losing 12-0 in four days I kind of understand that some people are feeling less than confident. I think the chimp's hat trick goal and that stupid fecking celebration followed by them taking the piss out of us for ten minutes is the closest I have come to tears as a Villa fan in years. Shots on target 1 vs 16 against a Spurs side who have been very beatable all year. A fucking Conference side would be embarrassed by that.
-
Holman is no more than a squad player, as is Gabby.
I agree. But a good nine-tenths of our squad is currently comprised of squad players, and that's why we can't perform consistently.
Gabby and Holman are both squad players in my opinion- gabby one goal in 33 games as a striker- Holman puts the effort in but lacks real quality.
-
We lack a dominant presence, we don't have enough bite and athleticism in there, and we don't have enough drive and pacy aggression. In short, we need two new midfielders, both seasoned pros able to slot straight in: one a battler and leader, and one a tricky player who can beat a man and run at a defence.
Yup.
I reckon that's about right.
The problem is - we need to buy them all in January, which is never easy, and we need to persuade the chairman to add them to the wage bill, which I suspect will be even less easy.
I think he could be persuaded to cough up if someone shows him the league table. It worked when Houllier asked him to buy Bent. A businessman has to protect his investment, after all.
Lambert's comments earlier about how if KEA goes to the ACN we'll have to cope without him don't instill me with much confidence.
Based on what I saw today, we'd better hope the Moroccan coach is a fan of his.
-
We lack a dominant presence, we don't have enough bite and athleticism in there, and we don't have enough drive and pacy aggression. In short, we need two new midfielders, both seasoned pros able to slot straight in: one a battler and leader, and one a tricky player who can beat a man and run at a defence.
Yup.
I reckon that's about right.
The problem is - we need to buy them all in January, which is never easy, and we need to persuade the chairman to add them to the wage bill, which I suspect will be even less easy.
Agree but he dug us out with Houllier signing Bent and Walker. There will be a few quid I am sure
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
Agree with this common sense post lacking the hysterical notes of most others
I have always agreed with Ozz in general and completely support common sense but after losing 12-0 in four days I kind of understand that some people are feeling less than confident. I think the chimp's hat trick goal and that stupid fecking celebration followed by them taking the piss out of us for ten minutes is the closest I have come to tears as a Villa fan in years. Shots on target 1 vs 16 against a Spurs side who have been very beatable all year. A fucking Conference side would be embarrassed by that.
Indeed. Villa have looked utterly hapless in the last two games, as poor (and worse) than we have looked for a long old time.
-
Too many kids, too many of whom are not good enough.
Too many lower leagues, low wages players.
Not enough experience.
The natural reaction is to vent at the manager, but really, this is just another symptom of the dreadful management of the club by Lerner and Faulkner,.
I can't even look at the teams around us and take comfort from the fact that we've a stronger squad, better players than them, because we haven't.
I totally understand what Lambert is trying to do, and I like it when it works, but the fact of the matter is, we have nowhere near sufficient quality in the side.
Some - Bennett, Herd, Delph - are quite clearly nothing like good enough. Some - KEA, Ireland - are probably good enough but don't show anything like enough desire to prove they are.
Lerner needs to take a look at where we are and reflect on how his stewardship of the club has gone the last few years.
He spent 20m on players though, and few of those players are anywhere near good enough. ANY manager serving up an 8-0 and a 4-0 loss at home needs to have a long, hard look at themselves.
If the pressure is the wage bill, it doesn't matter how much he spends, because ultimately, the players are going to be of a certain standard.
Practically speaking, what would we do if we sacked Lambert? Who would we appoint? What would they do?
Ultimately, nothing will change at this club until the chairman fucking wakes up and takes a look at the laughing stock we've been for most of the last three seasons.
The utter lunacy of this strategy is breathtaking.
Stay in this league, and with the new TV deal and 70% increase in income, the wage bill issue is reduced at a stroke.
Go down (and we have a better than average chance of that now, thanks to 2/3 years of downgrading) and we are facked.
We won't have to worry about Financial Fair Play considerations if we're playing Burnleh and Charlton at home either.
-
The facts are we were the 4-5th biggest net spenders last summer, and over the last few years in the prem it is the same. So blaming the chairman is all well and good, but does not tell the whole story. The money has been spent poorly in the most part.
Last summer Lambert did very well to get the players he did for the money spent.
We have lost 2 games that most of us all expected to lose. Sure by a few more than we would expect, but we have Wigan at home next after a run of Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, all 3 in good form. That is tough, and we got 3 points. Not the end of the world.
We need Vlaar back asap, we need Bannan back in the side, and I hope Westwood and Baker are not out for long.
Today we did ok in terms of stopping them first half, but losing Baker was a real blow, he was playing well and Herd had a nightmare.
No question it has not been good enough last 2 games, but we have the chance to get back on track against Wigan, and then January. We have to sign a centre half, a central midfield player and a forward who would all walk into our side.
Agree with this common sense post lacking the hysterical notes of most others
I have always agreed with Ozz in general and completely support common sense but after losing 12-0 in four days I kind of understand that some people are feeling less than confident. I think the chimp's hat trick goal and that stupid fecking celebration followed by them taking the piss out of us for ten minutes is the closest I have come to tears as a Villa fan in years. Shots on target 1 vs 16 against a Spurs side who have been very beatable all year. A fucking Conference side would be embarrassed by that.
he is a twat who fancies himself cant wait until he fucks them off
-
My worry is that we're not actually going to be getting anyone in January. Shipping goals like an under-10 team with low wages to boot hardly makes us the biggest draw.
I'm going to regret this when I've calmed down but if the club unveiled Fat Sam as our boss tomorrow I'd be pleased. Actually I'm beginning to regret it now.
-
Guzan - solid, keep
Lowton ~ two years more experience needed
Bennett ~ three more years experience needed
Herd ~ never good enough go.
Clark ~ not a centre half, keep but in midfield.
Holman ~ a trier but not good enough I'm afraid ~ go.
Delph ~ never good enough. Go.
Albrighton ~ one season wonder, not good enough. Go.
Ireland. Good enough, no heart. Keep on account of lack of other options.
El Ahmadi ~ not good enough. Go.
Benteke ~ good enough but not there yet. Keep.
Ireland good enough are you having a laugh.
He was extremely slow
Never made a tackle
Over hit the passes he made
Went missing a lot
He was the worst player by far today and he's getting paid the most!
-
Big Sam would have us safer than we are now IMO.
The argument is has Lambert got the potential to take us further than Sam would have.At moment we are more shocking than user TSM FFS..that takes some doing
-
On course for a cup final, recently beat Liverpool 3 - 1, had two bad days against quality sides after what was a good run.
Goal difference is shit, but we're okay. Need some reinforcements, a bit of experience and steel in the side in January please.
-
Lambert isn't to blame.
-
Guzan - solid, keep
Lowton ~ two years more experience needed
Bennett ~ three more years experience needed
Herd ~ never good enough go.
Clark ~ not a centre half, keep but in midfield.
Holman ~ a trier but not good enough I'm afraid ~ go.
Delph ~ never good enough. Go.
Albrighton ~ one season wonder, not good enough. Go.
Ireland. Good enough, no heart. Keep on account of lack of other options.
El Ahmadi ~ not good enough. Go.
Benteke ~ good enough but not there yet. Keep.
Ireland good enough are you having a laugh.
He was extremely slow
Never made a tackle
Over hit the passes he made
Went missing a lot
He was the worst player by far today and he's getting paid the most!
Agree completely
-
Can't see any self respecting player wanting to join us in January, even on loan. We are now a laughing stock due to this pathetic ultimately doomed experiment and relegation is now a very real prospect.
-
Take comfort from the fact that every one of our players will feel just as bad as you do tonight, as they drive their Lamborghini's home to their mansions.
-
Can't see any self respecting player wanting to join us in January, even on loan. We are now a laughing stock due to this pathetic ultimately doomed experiment and relegation is now a very real prospect.
Were we a laughing stock 10 days ago after winning 3-1 at Liverpool and 4-1 at Norwich?
-
Lambert has the same problem now that he had 5 months ago, a weak - bordering on feeble - midfield. If he solves that we can be a decent side.
It is no coincidence that the three strongest midfields in the league have handed us our arses on a plate.
To be fair, Delph did show glimpses today of the player he should have become by now. But Westwood - who looks a very good prospect - should be the only one not on the 'to be replaced' list. We need presence and the ability to keep the ball.
To add to the problem our defence has been all over the place. We really have missed Vlaar. Individually the players have good qualities. As a unit they have been all over the place.
-
Guzan - solid, keep
Lowton ~ two years more experience needed
Bennett ~ three more years experience needed
Herd ~ never good enough go.
Clark ~ not a centre half, keep but in midfield.
Holman ~ a trier but not good enough I'm afraid ~ go.
Delph ~ never good enough. Go.
Albrighton ~ one season wonder, not good enough. Go.
Ireland. Good enough, no heart. Keep on account of lack of other options.
El Ahmadi ~ not good enough. Go.
Benteke ~ good enough but not there yet. Keep.
Ireland good enough are you having a laugh.
He was extremely slow
Never made a tackle
Over hit the passes he made
Went missing a lot
He was the worst player by far today and he's getting paid the most!
Agree completely
I don't. I think he gets a massively raw deal, he provided the best moment of our admittedly pathetic performance even if Benteke ran offside for it and had a hand in most of our better moments. He has not looked disinterested to me all season as some have suggested and I have seen interviews with other players who have said he is the best trainer down Bodymoor.
He definitely got frustrated today but he is that sort of players and he wasn't the only one. Holman didn't stop trying which is admirable but he can barely trap a ball or make a five yard pass either. We work hard in general but fans pay to see footballers as well and (for all it might say everything we need to know about the current predicament), Ireland is one of our better footballers.
-
Players will always come. Its not like we're adrift.
The lack of exprience and quality is telling. I'd take Vlaar in a wheelchair at the moment. But the way we collapse... Jesus.
We have to win on Saturday, no doubt about it, but January cannot come quickly enough. That midfield needs somebody who can get hold of the damn thing and dictate physically. We also need somebody who can create as we are woeful going forwards.
Too many of the kids aren't good enough. Where he was going for the fourth, god knows. Why we have that mincing chimp Bale so much room, again god knows.
Win Saturday, which we can, Wigan are shit, shitter than we, then we're six points clear. Come Southampton we need the biggest, meanest, horriblest central player going, with Keane in the hole.
-
Can't see any self respecting player wanting to join us in January, even on loan. We are now a laughing stock due to this pathetic ultimately doomed experiment and relegation is now a very real prospect.
Were we a laughing stock 10 days ago after winning 3-1 at Liverpool and 4-1 at Norwich?
No, but we're certainly a laughing stock right now.
-
Benteke is a really good striker if he goes in the summer we are fucked and back to square one. Maybe if the inept midfield played the ball a a fraction earlier he wouldn't be offside as much.
If he went to any of the teams in the top six he'd be scoring for fun because most of them have good midfielders and fullbacks.
Yes he made a few mistakes today but they scored 3 other goals so get off his back.
-
Ireland started off the 2nd half quite well and was instrumental in that good start. Unfortunately after the first goal then he went as bad as mentioned. I don't know how much was us collectively losing it again. I just wish Guzan had had the courage to run out and clear the ball for the second but two goals in the space of a few minutes was always going to see the kids heads drop again.
-
Lambert has the same problem now that he had 5 months ago, a weak - bordering on feeble - midfield. If he solves that we can be a decent side.
It is no coincidence that the three strongest midfields in the league have handed us our arses on a plate.
To be fair, Delph did show glimpses today of the player he should have become by now. But Westwood - who looks a very good prospect - should be the only one not on the 'to be replaced' list. We need presence and the ability to keep the ball.
To add to the problem our defence has been all over the place. We really have missed Vlaar. Individually the players have good qualities. As a unit they have been all over the place.
Against 2 sides with top movement and top players it has killed us completely. Today losing Baker was a massive blow as he was reading the through balls really well. Losing Westwood hurt us further. Vlaar, Baker and Clark, with Lowton and Bennett does not worry me at all, but there needs to be a better player than Herd if we are going to play 3, and there needs to be a more athletic, faster, stronger player with Westwood. Bannan has done well, but I still think he could play further forward. Without Gabby though we have nothing to stretch the game with either, so a real pacey, tricky forward would help our defense and midfield push up.
We are in the very early stages of a long work in progress unfortunately.
-
Can't see any self respecting player wanting to join us in January, even on loan. We are now a laughing stock due to this pathetic ultimately doomed experiment and relegation is now a very real prospect.
Were we a laughing stock 10 days ago after winning 3-1 at Liverpool and 4-1 at Norwich?
No, but we're certainly a laughing stock right now.
When we beat Liverpool, we were nothing like as decent a side as a lot of people seemed to think we were.
However, up to that point, we hadn't been anywhere near as bad as some people thought we were.
The last two trouncings have been a very firm bringing back to earth (and that's putting it mildly).
We have Wigan at home next - that is a game we can win, even without the experience we desperately need. But can we raise the spirits of a team of kids who have shipped 12 and scored none in the last two games?
I doubt it, and that is precisely what is going to be our biggest problem for the rest of the season unless we buy well.
-
We gave away 15 corners today in the first half. That must be some kind of record from hell.
-
IMO he has bought well so far, so it will be interesting to see how he does in January. It will also be interesting if he swallows his pride on KEA and buys a replacement this soon, as we need one.
-
Well we got battered as probably expected. Ironic as we started off the second half much better. Indeed at 0-1, Benteke squaring the goal a bit better you don't know what happened.
Wigan massive game now. Probably going to be a nervous draw when we desperately need a win.
-
I tell you what, I would give him all the pies in the land for Fat Frank for the rest of the season. Him and Keane with some evil looking Germans would do nicely.
-
We gave away 15 corners today in the first half. That must be some kind of record from hell.
According to the BBC it's five short of the record for an entire match.
-
We have Wigan at home next - that is a game we can win, even without the experience we desperately need. But can we raise the spirits of a team of kids who have shipped 12 and scored none in the last two games?
I doubt it, and that is precisely what is going to be our biggest problem for the rest of the season unless we buy well.
And we have Wigan with potentially no Baker and no Westwood and definitely with no Delph and Weiman. Alongst with no Vlaar, Dunne, Gabby and Bent, I don't even know who he could pick that wouldn't be more kids thrown in the deep end.
-
Guzan - solid, keep
Lowton ~ two years more experience needed
Bennett ~ three more years experience needed
Herd ~ never good enough go.
Clark ~ not a centre half, keep but in midfield.
Holman ~ a trier but not good enough I'm afraid ~ go.
Delph ~ never good enough. Go.
Albrighton ~ one season wonder, not good enough. Go.
Ireland. Good enough, no heart. Keep on account of lack of other options.
El Ahmadi ~ not good enough. Go.
Benteke ~ good enough but not there yet. Keep.
Ireland good enough are you having a laugh.
He was extremely slow
Never made a tackle
Over hit the passes he made
Went missing a lot
He was the worst player by far today and he's getting paid the most!
Agree completely
I don't. I think he gets a massively raw deal, he provided the best moment of our admittedly pathetic performance even if Benteke ran offside for it and had a hand in most of our better moments. He has not looked disinterested to me all season as some have suggested and I have seen interviews with other players who have said he is the best trainer down Bodymoor.
He definitely got frustrated today but he is that sort of players and he wasn't the only one. Holman didn't stop trying which is admirable but he can barely trap a ball or make a five yard pass either. We work hard in general but fans pay to see footballers as well and (for all it might say everything we need to know about the current predicament), Ireland is one of our better footballers.
I'm entitled to my opinion as are you of course
He's getting paid £320,000 every 31 days for merit off one good season at Citeh. Since he came to Villa he's been a shower of shite.
We could have 2 decent players at 40K a week if we get rid.
-
Think Mr Green snr hit on something when he talked about sports psychology having a role to play.
Just brainwash the lot of 'em and tell them every game is a League Cup game. We'll have the title in the bag by April, with a record goals haul.
Jan/Feb are absolutely crucial to us. The LC semi is an obvious incentive, and could help put some gloss on a brutal few years. But home games against Southampton and West Ham could be just as crucial, in many ways.
Win them (and the Wigan game coming up) and we'll have seven wins on the board - the same amount that we managed in the whole of last season. As bad as we can be (and as we've seen, that's bad) we have to back ourselves in those type of fixtures. Villa being Villa, we know it's unlikely to be that straightforward.
If we do have seven wins in the league by early Feb (and a LC final to look forward to) we can maybe/hopefully look back at these past two games a weird anomaly.
-
Well, that was shit. Awful in the first. Started the second half reasonably well, conceded and went to shit. No idea why Guzan didn't go out and make more of a challenge for the second goal as that was the killer. I was behind the goal in the North Stand and looked to me he could make the challenge. And why has Benteke suddenly forgotten the offside rule?
Spurs fans did make me amuse with "even your telly's shit" when the big screen went on the fritz. They can go fuck off with that shit slow "Oh when the Spurs" bollocks, McGrath it's shit.
And fair play to the 2 Spurs fans who bought the fanzine from me.
-
We gave away 15 corners today in the first half. That must be some kind of record from hell.
According to the BBC it's five short of the record for an entire match.
Just appalling. The worst part about it is that they got on the end of most of them. It was only poor finishing that saved us. It could well have been another 8-0. It's humiliating. Lerner has sucked the life out of the club in 3 short years.
-
Wigan will be chomping at the bit to get at us on saturday.
See, what I don't get is this. How can the management structure at our club believe that you can put together a team of championship quality players, for peanuts, pay low wages, and expect them to succeed in arguably the toughest league in the world.
At best it's naive, at worst it's fucking negligent.
-
Can't see any self respecting player wanting to join us in January, even on loan. We are now a laughing stock due to this pathetic ultimately doomed experiment and relegation is now a very real prospect.
Were we a laughing stock 10 days ago after winning 3-1 at Liverpool and 4-1 at Norwich?
What an utterly bizarre question. OJ Simpson was a respected sportsman and film star before he turned into a murderer and bank robber. The fact that he is now a disgraced criminal can't be undone by saying "was he a criminal when he was making us all laugh in the Naked Gun films?" So no, we weren't a laughing stock when we beat Norwich and Liverpool. But now we've been absolutely battered 8-0 and 4-0, we are, because those sorts of results make you a laughing stock.
-
Think Mr Green snr hit on something when he talked about sports psychology having a role to play.
Just brainwash the lot of 'em and tell them every game is a League Cup game. We'll have the title in the bag by April, with a record goals haul.
Jan/Feb are absolutely crucial to us. The LC semi is an obvious incentive, and could help put some gloss on a brutal few years. But home games against Southampton and West Ham could be just as crucial, in many ways.
Win them (and the Wigan game coming up) and we'll have seven wins on the board - the same amount that we managed in the whole of last season. As bad as we can be (and as we've seen, that's bad) we have to back ourselves in those type of fixtures. Villa being Villa, we know it's unlikely to be that straightforward.
That's what worries me.
This season there have been plenty of matches we've played some very good stuff. We're not going to face Chelsea at Stamford Bridge every week, and we're not going to be up against a more than decent Spurs side every week, either.
The problem I have is that we never really look like we are going to convincingly beat any opponents very often, regardless of how poor they are.
We now have an increasingly worrying injury crisis going on, which is the last thing we need.
-
Apparantly we have lost 4 in 13 , and those games were against the current top 4 sides.
We have also just suffered our record defeat - so figures can be played round with to spin what we want
But theres more to it - we all know we have a young,brittle side. We need experience throughout the spine of the team - and quickly. We need to do buiness early in the January window - its no use buggering about until 23.59 on 31st Jan MON style.
There are 4 league games to play in Jan - winnable ones too.
But who will we be able to get in ??
-
When was the last time Randy was at VP?
-
There is no spine to this team at all, it capitulates every time the going gets tough. That more than anything needs to be addressed quickly. There last two games have been an utter disgrace, nothing short of that.
-
Just back from VP after taking my lads to their first game (poor things). It was frightening to watch the heads drop after the second goal went in. All the self belief drained out of the players and herein lies the rub. The team is crying out for a little bit of quality in the middle. I hear lots of "he might be good in two years" but we need one player in the middle who is good now. This window could be a proper watershed for the club. Decide to follow the recent path of rookie and cheap and we will be right up shit creek without a paddle.
I despair at the way the club has sunk over the last couple of years.
-
We gave away 15 corners today in the first half. That must be some kind of record from hell.
According to the BBC it's five short of the record for an entire match.
That can't be right.
-
You know when you played football at Primary School. There was always one school who were utter utter shit and took a pasting most weeks, well that's what we look like at the moment.
Special mention to El-Hamadi for the worst 45 minutes by any player this season for his first half. It really was a special effort in shitness, hats off.
-
I'm much more disappointed today than after Chelsea. For me, the response to a heavy defeat tells more about the minds of the players and where their confidence is. It looks shot, merely one week or so after such an apparent high. It really does not help one bit that every veteran player at the club is injured or in Stan's case out indefinitely. I'm all for kids but without older calmer heads we could spiral out of control very quickly. I hope the club has a few significant irons raging in the fire over the next few weeks to save the season.
-
We gave away 15 corners today in the first half. That must be some kind of record from hell.
According to the BBC it's five short of the record for an entire match.
That can't be right.
Apparently last season the record was 19 corners set by spurs against aston villa.
-
I'm much more disappointed today than after Chelsea. For me, the response to a heavy defeat tells more about the minds of the players and where their confidence is. It looks shot, merely one week or so after such an apparent high. It really does not help one bit that every veteran player at the club is injured or in Stan's case out indefinitely. I'm all for kids but without older calmer heads we could spiral out of control very quickly. I hope the club has a few significant irons raging in the fire over the next few weeks to save the season.
Me too, I expected a much better response today and feel far worse tonight than on Sunday.
-
I can only thank McGrath that when I go into work tomorrow neither the Olbiun not the Yoonited fan will be there.
There will however be well-meaning comments from the, otherwise lovely, admin workers along the lines of"what's happened to the Villa?"
I may go postal
-
Can't see any self respecting player wanting to join us in January, even on loan. We are now a laughing stock due to this pathetic ultimately doomed experiment and relegation is now a very real prospect.
Were we a laughing stock 10 days ago after winning 3-1 at Liverpool and 4-1 at Norwich?
What an utterly bizarre question. OJ Simpson was a respected sportsman and film star before he turned into a murderer and bank robber. The fact that he is now a disgraced criminal can't be undone by saying "was he a criminal when he was making us all laugh in the Naked Gun films?" So no, we weren't a laughing stock when we beat Norwich and Liverpool. But now we've been absolutely battered 8-0 and 4-0, we are, because those sorts of results make you a laughing stock.
What an utterly bizarre analogy. Spurious and ridiculousextrapolation. Simpson will forever be a criminal, we won't always be a laughing stock.
-
FWIW, I think that the aftermath of the Chelsea game was a real test for Lambert and may end up being a turning point for us: he screwed up the tactics at Chelsea and had the chance to do something about it today. It seems that he was both unlucky (with the injuries) and unable to get the heads or the tactics right and therefore failed to address the significant damage caused at SB - today's disaster compounds that situation.
It is now entirely possible that Wigan will come and turn us over as well. Which will mean we will be in a dogfight for the season.
I rate Lambert and was a champion for him becoming our manager. He now needs to do something he hasn't had to do as a manager recently: find the psychological and tactical answers to turn around a potenitally-disastrous situation, because there's no question this squad can win EPL games.
-
Why were we set up to be so bloody negative and defensive in the first half? Yes, we had come off the back off a drubbing, but to approach a game in that manner tells me that the team is running scared and does not have the confidence to take the game to the opposistion. It must have been 30 mins before we got into their half properly.
Don't we want to play with the big boys anymore?
It was every bit as bad as anything we had to endure last year, infact, given that they 'owed' us a response to Chelsea, it was probably worse.
-
There were times when it was like watching an u13 team play an u16 team. They will grow up eventually but need some help while they do.
-
Looking on the bright side, if we can work our way to a win against Wigan - and despite all of the disappointments over the last week, it's still possible - then we'll be 6 points clear of the relegation zone and likely to be about 11 clear of 19th. We've actually done well in our must win games so far this season. But if we go with the squad who finished today's game I worry we'll lose it.
-
The lack of self belief is quite staggering We've had our good spell and for some reason didn't have it in us to push on but instead capitulated at the first opportunity. Quite frankly were fucked
-
How many expected a win today? surely a draw was the best we could have hoped for after Chelsea, once again we were outplayed by a top four side who have top quality players with a lot of experience and we were found out. I blame Lerner as much as anyone but give Lambert a break he has been at the club six months not six years. I am more interested in how long Dunne and Vlar are out for, we really miss solid defenders at the moment, Gabby for all his limitations was missed.I was suprised how slow our midfield looked, Kea especially, after early promise i don't think he has the pace for the prem the same could be said of Westwood who was caught in posession too many times and seemed to panic when pressed. If we are to avoid the drop then a lot of money needs to be spent in January.
-
Looking on the bright side, if we can work our way to a win against Wigan - and despite all of the disappointments over the last week, it's still possible - then we'll be 6 points clear of the relegation zone and likely to be about 11 clear of 19th. We've actually done well in our must win games so far this season. But if we go with the squad who finished today's game I worry we'll lose it.
We'll probably go with a weaker squad than today on Saturday by virtue of the fact we've picked up injuries.
-
Will any players be back for Saturday?
-
I feel worse also. It proves the chelsea result was no freak performance/scoreline. However we are not in the bottom 3, and the poo has hit the fan before the transfer window rather than after it. Doing nothing isn't an option.
-
Squad depth is beginning to be a worry for me. We can't rest/drop anyone as we're running out of fit players. I wonder if fatigue is an issue as we've now had 2 consecutive second half collapses?
-
The thing with the premier league nowadays is there is such a gulf now between the top 4/5 and the rest.
Look at how Spurs played tonight, the way they passed and moved. TBH it was lightyears away from what we were doing when we were finishing 6th three years in a row.
Brings me onto the 5 match unbeaten run we had recently, how many games did we really play well in that run.
Reading at 0-0 could've gone either way as they had chances. QPR we didn't play very well did we?
But we got points in these games because we're playing other poor teams and I'd say we will pick up points in the next 6 games as we'll be playing opponents much more on our "level" as much as it pains me to say it.
But we need wins, not just scrapeing draws.
-
I just keep thinking, 'how the hell do you go about lifting the team after two spankings in as many days?'
As magnificent as the Holte End was, especially as the end, the players looked utterly shot. So it's a genuine question. How the hell do we lift ourselves up in a matter of days and ensure we get the three points against Wigan?
-
Looking on the bright side, if we can work our way to a win against Wigan - and despite all of the disappointments over the last week, it's still possible - then we'll be 6 points clear of the relegation zone and likely to be about 11 clear of 19th. We've actually done well in our must win games so far this season. But if we go with the squad who finished today's game I worry we'll lose it.
We'll probably go with a weaker squad than today on Saturday by virtue of the fact we've picked up injuries.
Baker could be out. Delph is suspended. Could do with Vlaar, Dunne and N'Zogbia coming back asap.
For all the stick Albrighton gets I thought he was our best player when he came on. Had the beating of Naughton quite a bit and when he lost the ball he mostly won it back.
-
That was like watching someone playing the computer on a game of FIFA with the settings changed to 'Amateur'
We need 4 or 5 experienced heads in Januay or we will be see us languishing in the championship next season.
-
I just keep thinking, 'how the hell do you go about lifting the team after two spankings in as many days?'
As magnificent as the Holte End was, especially as the end, the players looked utterly shot. So it's a genuine question. How the hell do we lift ourselves up in a matter of days and ensure we get the three points against Wigan?
Safe to say Wigan aren't very good themselves, 5 defeats in a row I think.
-
In a way Wigan is possibly one of the better teams we could be facing. They're bottom of the form table, with one point from a possible 18 (edit: it's actually 1 from 27! though I think they've been a bit unlucky in some). The only problem is that they're used to it, and know they can recover from it! I think they've conceded at least 2 goals for 9 consecutive games (except Arsenal where it was 1).
If we have Vlaar, Westwood, Gabby, N'Zogbia and Weimann fit, I'd be very confident of winning, even in our current form. If we have one of them fit, I'll be much more pessimistic. Vlaar and Westwood, plus one of the three forward options should be enough. Please oh injury Gods!
I imagine we'll have to revert to 4 at the back if Baker is out, which judging by today could be a massive risk, even if it leaves us with more options going forwards.
-
I can't quite make out why I'm so disappointed. If you'd told two weeks ago that we'd get three points from the sequence of Liverpool (A), Chelsea (A) and Spurs (H), I'd have been really pleased with that return. That's what we got and that three points will be vital. In theory, I should be happy, and knowing that, I'm still able to see the bright side.
As others have said, I think the comprehensiveness of the defeats is what is so alarming, the complete reversal in fortunes of both the side and some players individually (Benteke). I suppose these are the peaks and valleys we knew would be coming with Lambert. I still think we'll have enough - just - to stay up in the end.
-
I'm staggered by the way the past two games have gone. We were looking good prior to the Chelsea match and playing with confidence, shape and purpose. It's astonishing how quickly things can change in a week. Obviously some of the younger lad's heads have dropped since the Chelsea match and, on top of that, injuries are starting to bite. In an ideal world the likes of Benteke, Baker and Herd would have been rested and rotated over the Christmas period with the likes of Gabby and Vlaar making the line-up. Tonight we looked like the Aston Villa that faced Everton earlier in the season.
We have to keep the faith. My view is that Lambert is the right man for the job, this is a challenging spell but we must not allow it to become a crisis. The players need to regroup and we need our injured players back asap. The cut and thrust of the Christmas fixtures is getting the better of our squad and we need to stay mentally strong. The spirit of the team that swash-buckled its way to victories at Norwich and Liverpool is still there and we need to help that team regain its form and confidence.
-
I can't quite make out why I'm so disappointed. If you'd told two weeks ago that we'd get three points from the sequence of Liverpool (A), Chelsea (A) and Spurs (H), I'd have been really pleased with that return. That's what we got and that three points will be vital. In theory, I should be happy, and knowing that, I'm still able to see the bright side.
As others have said, I think the comprehensiveness of the defeats is what is so alarming, the complete reversal in fortunes of both the side and some players individually (Benteke). I suppose these are the peaks and valleys we knew would be coming with Lambert. I still think we'll have enough - just - to stay up in the end.
It shouldn't be that difficult to work out why you're so upset. We've just conceded 12 goals in 2 games without reply. It is, quite frankly, a humiliation.
-
Lambert has the same problem now that he had 5 months ago, a weak - bordering on feeble - midfield. If he solves that we can be a decent side.
It is no coincidence that the three strongest midfields in the league have handed us our arses on a plate.
To be fair, Delph did show glimpses today of the player he should have become by now. But Westwood - who looks a very good prospect - should be the only one not on the 'to be replaced' list. We need presence and the ability to keep the ball.
To add to the problem our defence has been all over the place. We really have missed Vlaar. Individually the players have good qualities. As a unit they have been all over the place.
Completely agree with everything there... Well except for the Delph bit. But you're spot on there
-
We seem to concede a very high percentage of goals in the 2nd half, saints, man city, spurs and Chelsea have seen us concede 17 goals in just the 2nd half alone - is fitness and stamina an issue?
-
Knowing our board, after fucking about with sacking a manager we don't want, they'll sack a manager we do want ASAP.
-
The thing with the premier league nowadays is there is such a gulf now between the top 4/5 and the rest.
Look at how Spurs played tonight, the way they passed and moved. TBH it was lightyears away from what we were doing when we were finishing 6th three years in a row.
Brings me onto the 5 match unbeaten run we had recently, how many games did we really play well in that run.
Reading at 0-0 could've gone either way as they had chances. QPR we didn't play very well did we?
But we got points in these games because we're playing other poor teams and I'd say we will pick up points in the next 6 games as we'll be playing opponents much more on our "level" as much as it pains me to say it.
But we need wins, not just scrapeing draws.
Norwich beat arsenal and man utd - any team is beatable if you get the tactics right and play to capacity, we had utd on the ropes but let them escape - yes the top teams are very good but they can be beaten as Sunderland showed today against city.
-
Paul Lambert on keeping spirits at a good level.
Paul Lambert insists he will keep spirits in the camp at a good level despite the loss to Tottenham.
Lambert accepts it's been a frustrating few days, with the home defeat this evening coming on the back of a heavy loss to Chelsea at the weekend.
But he says he won't let his players get too low - just as he wouldn't allow them to get too high after the wins at Norwich and Liverpool.
He said: "I have belief they will do it. They will give us everything again.
"People get carried away after the Norwich and Liverpool wins but I didn't and neither did the team.
"I never let them get too high or too low. The nature of football is that you can get hurt at any moment.
"If you win, let it go. You have to move on to the next one. It's the same with a defeat.
"They will be fine. If we win, lose or draw, we always treat them the same, we keep spirits the same.
"You can't dwell on it, win or lose. You have to bounce back, there's no other way, you have to do it.
"All I do is try to train and coach them the right way and try to get them to play the right way. We want to keep that going!
"Because we beat Norwich and Liverpool, everyone thinks X, Y and Z. But deep down I know what we've got."
Lambert praised the claret and blue faithful who sang his name loud and proud, despite the side being 4-0 down at the time.
He continued: "The fans were brilliant. They are fantastic in the way they have supported us.
"They see what we're trying to do. They have been terrific.
"It's pleasing to hear them back us. But we know we have to get results.
"We are in a semi-final in a few weeks, you have a chance to do something there.
"And if you look at the league you're not a million miles away from mid-table. That's what you have to strive for."
On the game itself, Lambert was frustrated with Tottenham's first goal, which set them on the path to victory.
He felt Fabian Delph was fouled in the build-up to Jermain Defoe's clinical finish.
He added: "We rode our luck massively in the first half. Spurs were very good in the first half.
"We started the second half well. I thought we were in the ascendancy.
"But I thought the first goal was a foul on Fabian in he first half. I think a free-kick should have been given.
"The second goal we had a good chance to make it 1-1 and then they go up other end and score again. That's what can happen when you play these type of players.
"But I have seen it. My view is Fabian gets hit, body charged. I think it's a free-kick."
-
Guzan - solid, keep
Lowton ~ two years more experience needed
Bennett ~ three more years experience needed
Herd ~ never good enough go.
Clark ~ not a centre half, keep but in midfield.
Holman ~ a trier but not good enough I'm afraid ~ go.
Delph ~ never good enough. Go.
Albrighton ~ one season wonder, not good enough. Go.
Ireland. Good enough, no heart. Keep on account of lack of other options.
El Ahmadi ~ not good enough. Go.
Benteke ~ good enough but not there yet. Keep.
Ireland good enough are you having a laugh.
He was extremely slow
Never made a tackle
Over hit the passes he made
Went missing a lot
He was the worst player by far today and he's getting paid the most!
Agree completely
I cannot stand Ireland, absolute piss taker of the highest order from the first day he got here and the whole episode of his arrival was the epitome of how we've been mismanaged. How many decent games has he had?
He's the first person i'd like to see out of the Club, and that's a fucking long list right now.
-
Garbage. Total and utter shite, and Lambert needs to sort out that defence.
How did our decent little run suddenly go so spectacularly awry?
-
Lerner out! End of...
-
F**k me. 12 goals against and only 2 shots on target in 2 games.
We never looked like scoring.
We always looked like conceding.
Which was worst. First half 0-0 when we didn't get out of our half or the second when we tried to get forward but got spanked 0-4.
The midfield was absolutely shocking in these 2 games. Offered nothing going forward and no protection. Will a midfielder score this season ? Bale had so much time and space for his goals arriving late in the box with no one tracking him.
Delph/KEH should never play again
Serous question : When Ireland plays does he play in midfield or as a second striker ?
Its my firm belief he plays in the position of a second striker. His positional play is up front but his movement and tracking back is nowhere near the levels of Holman/Gabby/Weinmann/even Keane last year. Ireland should also never play again as he simply aint good enough for that position and he cant play anywhere else.
I'm gonna get lashed - again !
-
Anyone interested we are 3rd in the running order on motd tonight after the games at Man U and Sunderland
-
We are a poor side with players who arnt good enough. From Lamberts quote he knows it:
"Because we beat Norwich and Liverpool, everyone thinks X, Y and Z. But deep down I know what we've got."
It's up to the board now to back him or they should give up and move on.
-
Although old doug gets a lot of flak he at least travels home and away to watch the villa well into his 80s whereas randy rarely ever watches the team play - as chairman and owner I wonder if his heart is still really in the club or his interest has waned?
-
Well the Chickens are coming home to roost in a rather spectacular way. Play an academy side with a sprinkling of Championship players and the odd highly paid mercenary who doesn't give a shit against top quality, well drilled sides that are pushing for Champions League and you get absolutely humiliated. And that's what we are right now.
Mr Lerner, we've all had you sussed for a couple of years now so how about we get through the january window with the last bit of investment you'll be required to put in, get us through to the end of the season and then you can cash in your chips when that new TV deal kicks in. It'll be better for all of us that way. Because let's face it, you've proven that you havn't a feckin clue what you're doing.
-
Apart from 5 mins at start of 2nd half it was appalling, 15-1 corners we only managed about 1 shot 1st half. No leadership, we look like Rabbits in the headlights, I really don't know what to say and who to blame??? Help me someone please
-
Who cares if Doug follows us home and away? So do I. What's the difference?
I have put money, however small, into the club and taken nothing tangible from it. We have been smashed over two games, is that the call for sense to leak from your head and the ok to look wistfully back as if Herbie was a good thing?
-
First half our objective was don't concede.
When we then tried to open them up in the second half we played well for the first 8-9 minutes, then we conceded and just fell apart.
The last two games have been awful, and the results against Liverpool and Norwich look like the exception to the otherwise awful performances
-
Atleast Ellis still looks like he still gives a shit long after selling the club. Lerner doesn't and he owns the joint.
-
Stephen Ireland - Why?
-
Who cares if Doug follows us home and away? So do I. What's the difference?
I have put money, however small, into the club and taken nothing tangible from it. We have been smashed over two games, is that the call for sense to leak from your head and the ok to look wistfully back as if Herbie was a good thing?
No it's stating the question does randy attend many games or care as much as he did a few years ago?
As oz says Ellis has long since sold up but still travels at his age, how often does Lerner?
-
Stephen Ireland - Why?
Thought he did quite well when he came on. Until Ireland and albrighton came on to the pitch, there was no supply to Benteke what so ever. At least when them two came on there was far more movement up front. Ireland did some lovely passes.
-
I see Stephen Ireland is once again coming in for a lot of stick this evening; same as he did after Chelsea. I can only presume this is because Darren Bent is injured and we need another scapegoat
The only moments of any real quality came from Ireland today but every time he put a decent ball in Benteke was offside!
It doesn't take a genius to work out the problem in the last two games has been the defending and Bennett, Lowton, Clark, Baker and Herd are in the main either not ready or simply not good enough for the highest level in my opinion.
I expected a positive reaction after the clubs record defeat but did not see anything remotely resembling one; totally unacceptable performance for the second game running
Merry Bastard Christmas...
-
Stephen Ireland - Why?
Thought he did quite well when he came on. Until Ireland and albrighton came on to the pitch, there was no supply to Benteke what so ever. At least when them two came on there was far more movement up front. Ireland did some lovely passes.
I thought this as well. Shame it only lasted for ten minutes or so.
-
An owner is only as good as his last tranafer window.
Doug turning up to games doesn't mean he gives a shit or know what day of the week it is. He was turning up to games while dismantling the European Cup winning side en route to relegation. Who gives a shit whether the owner turns up?
-
The walking yellow card that is Fabian Delph showed us all why he should be nowhere near a Premiership club. Outclassed all game so he ends up taking a swipe at Bale and gets a yellow. He plays like I did when I was a kid - if I was getting the runaround I'd resort to cropper soccer too. By way of consolation for Villa's latest fiasco, at least our 'battling playmaker' is suspended for the next game.
-
I suppose that if Doug had stayed we could have at least gone down 5 years ago and got it over with! Anyone that wants to name another advantage other than a +1 on the attendance is seriously kidding themselves.
-
Boxing day ruined for my family as they had to endure a clearly deranged father screaming obscenities at the TV. Probably a good mental scar for their young minds there.
You are getting my kids psychoanalysis bills Lambert.
-
It seems to me that his switch to 3 at the back was due to the centre half pairing of Baker and Clark were getting split far too frequently, so a 3 cut that out initially.
Unfortunately, teams have now weighed things up and have sussed us out to exploit the space behind the full backs. They are also pressing us more effectively when we try to play out from the back.
I also do not think we are putting enough effort into our performances - I watched Stoke put everything into their performance against Liverpool tonight and looked back to our half arsed closing down of Spurs.
Where we go from here, who knows. I am concerned at the space behind our fullbacks and also by our inability for midfielders to gamble and make runs into the box.
Wigan may be a good team for us to play this weekend, if only due to their commitment in pushing men forward. The way I feel at the moment, I fear they could also turn us over though. We need to get the crowd going so i'd put Bowery up front with Benteke - get those balls pumped in the box and get into 'em.
Nick
-
Its poor and sad to see us lose 4-0 today. And esp after last match. That said we are against far stronger opponents. These teams on majority of days are better than us. They score goals! though we have a chance of redemption against wigan i dont like the way bale waltzed in scoring his goals. Far too easy. Too much time and space.
-
Stephen Ireland - Why?
Thought he did quite well when he came on. Until Ireland and albrighton came on to the pitch, there was no supply to Benteke what so ever. At least when them two came on there was far more movement up front. Ireland did some lovely passes.
I thought this as well. Shame it only lasted for ten minutes or so.
Yeah, bloody spurs!!
I thought he was always looking for the ball. Getting into space and making the pass. Not Ireland's fault Benteke doesn't know how offside works or that the ball to him wasn't good enough in the first place. You could tell towards the end he was getting fed up but so were we all! He was at least trying to make things happen
Albrighton too for all the grief I've given him the last year and a half looked lively too.
We fell apart at the back due to herd and thd others getting pulled out of position too easily against a very good forward line up that spurs have
-
Well the Chickens are coming home to roost in a rather spectacular way. Play an academy side with a sprinkling of Championship players and the odd highly paid mercenary who doesn't give a shit against top quality, well drilled sides that are pushing for Champions League and you get absolutely humiliated. And that's what we are right now.
Mr Lerner, we've all had you sussed for a couple of years now so how about we get through the january window with the last bit of investment you'll be required to put in, get us through to the end of the season and then you can cash in your chips when that new TV deal kicks in. It'll be better for all of us that way. Because let's face it, you've proven that you havn't a feckin clue what you're doing.
'We all' have, have we?
-
When was the last time Randy was at VP?
Who wants Blandy there anyway?
The sleeping Yank has all the charisma and motivating skills of an empty crisp packet.
I only hope the idiot will see sense and provide adequate funds to replace KEA, Holman and the laughably bad Delph and Albrighton.
At least three experienced players needed, two in midfield and one in defence.
Who of quality will come here though?
-
Well the Chickens are coming home to roost in a rather spectacular way. Play an academy side with a sprinkling of Championship players and the odd highly paid mercenary who doesn't give a shit against top quality, well drilled sides that are pushing for Champions League and you get absolutely humiliated. And that's what we are right now.
Mr Lerner, we've all had you sussed for a couple of years now so how about we get through the january window with the last bit of investment you'll be required to put in, get us through to the end of the season and then you can cash in your chips when that new TV deal kicks in. It'll be better for all of us that way. Because let's face it, you've proven that you havn't a feckin clue what you're doing.
'We all' have, have we?
Well I agree. Randy - what is his strategy for the Villa? If its anything like the Browns we are f***ed.
-
Just home from the game. I said to my son two days ago that that Chelsea game would either make or break this young Villa side. On today's evidence it looks as though it has broken them.
We have to guess what is happening inside the closed shop Villa has become since the MON debacle and we can only have visceral and intuitive reactions to what we see. What I saw in the opening minutes of that game was that Paul Lambert had gone home after the Chelsea game and done nothing and said nothing. Other than put out the team sheet for Spurs and mutter a minimum amount of cliched aphorisms like "pick ourselves and go again" the players appeared to be still playing at Chelsea. They were sloppy, they were slow, they ball watched, they did not mark tightly. We survived at nil nil by some miracle until half time when I deduce that Lambert started to earn his wages by rousting them and ripping into them.
As a result we came out and played like a different team for ten minutes. Then Spurs got a goal and we went to pieces again. My honest opinion is that if we at the Holte End had not got behind the team for the last ten minutes it could haver been a defeat approaching the Chelsea score.
Whatever Lambert did or said at half time should have been said on the bus back from Chelsea at Bodymoor Heath and before the kick off.
The bald fact which seems to be staring us in the face is that Lambert lacks motivational skills.
As for the game itself I think that once again all our problems flow from midfield inadequacies. The do not track back so the defence gets overrun and carries the blame for goals and they do not get into the opposition third and threaten to score goals. Ahmadi is lazy and one of the worst ball watchers I have ever seen in a Villa shirt. He will not go face to face with opponents and seems to be permanently tied to an opposition player like the arse end of a pantomime horse. Ireland is a football butterfly, no weight, no punch, no energy, no sting. He just flits from place to place on the field trying to look flash and cool. In our situation he is a massive extravagance we cannot afford and to make matters worse he clearly does not give a shit about Villa or the fans because he knew how provocative swapping a shirt would be in full view of the fans but he still did it.
I think that game ushers in a second half of the season of percentage football scrambling for points wherever we can find them.
-
As far as I can see these are the players that are currently good enough to be regular first team players - Guzan, Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Westwood, Weimann, Benteke, Bent and maybe Baker, N'Zog, Bannan and Gabby. That is a pretty thin squad and the glaringly obvious area where we are in massive trouble is midfield. We need a quality centre half, left back, two centre mids, a playmaker and a forward.
-
Brian, an excellent summary (as always).
-
Motivation in my view has nothing to do with it. Quality and exprience does. I saw a highly motivated Delph get about the park tonight, one of the few who laid a glove on Spurs. His problem and by extension ours, is not motivation, its quality and exprience.
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
-
As far as I can see these are the players that are currently good enough to be regular first team players - Guzan, Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Westwood, Weimann, Benteke, Bent and maybe Baker, N'Zog, Bannan and Gabby. That is a pretty thin squad and the glaringly obvious area where we are in massive trouble is midfield. We need a quality centre half, left back, two centre mids, a playmaker and a forward.
Agree with that Paul.
It's going to be a tough task to get quality reinforcements in though.
What has pissed me off this season is the belief that getting youngsters in was a conscious move by the club to follow an 'Ajax' type path of bringing youth through - Bollocks, it's George Osborne style cost cutting, pure and simple.
-
Just home from the game. I said to my son two days ago that that Chelsea game would either make or break this young Villa side. On today's evidence it looks as though it has broken them.
We have to guess what is happening inside the closed shop Villa has become since the MON debacle and we can only have visceral and intuitive reactions to what we see. What I saw in the opening minutes of that game was that Paul Lambert had gone home after the Chelsea game and done nothing and said nothing. Other than put out the team sheet for Spurs and mutter a minimum amount of cliched aphorisms like "pick ourselves and go again" the players appeared to be still playing at Chelsea. They were sloppy, they were slow, they ball watched, they did not mark tightly. We survived at nil nil by some miracle until half time when I deduce that Lambert started to earn his wages by rousting them and ripping into them.
As a result we came out and played like a different team for ten minutes. Then Spurs got a goal and we went to pieces again. My honest opinion is that if we at the Holte End had not got behind the team for the last ten minutes it could haver been a defeat approaching the Chelsea score.
Whatever Lambert did or said at half time should have been said on the bus back from Chelsea at Bodymoor Heath and before the kick off.
The bald fact which seems to be staring us in the face is that Lambert lacks motivational skills.
As for the game itself I think that once again all our problems flow from midfield inadequacies. The do not track back so the defence gets overrun and carries the blame for goals and they do not get into the opposition third and threaten to score goals. Ahmadi is lazy and one of the worst ball watchers I have ever seen in a Villa shirt. He will not go face to face with opponents and seems to be permanently tied to an opposition player like the arse end of a pantomime horse. Ireland is a football butterfly, no weight, no punch, no energy, no sting. He just flits from place to place on the field trying to look flash and cool. In our situation he is a massive extravagance we cannot afford and to make matters worse he clearly does not give a shit about Villa or the fans because he knew how provocative swapping a shirt would be in full view of the fans but he still did it.
I think that game ushers in a second half of the season of percentage football scrambling for points wherever we can find them.
Yes.
-
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
If true, he needs to sell up then.
He can fuck off back to the States and have self loathing racks offs over there.
-
I saw a highly motivated Delph get about the park tonight
As ever, his tackles are woefully mistimed.
Absolutely incredible that we spent £6m on him.
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
If true and I have no reason to doubt you, then I think we are in the shit big time if the owner has lost interest.
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
If thats true then we truly are fucked....
-
Well the Chickens are coming home to roost in a rather spectacular way. Play an academy side with a sprinkling of Championship players and the odd highly paid mercenary who doesn't give a shit against top quality, well drilled sides that are pushing for Champions League and you get absolutely humiliated. And that's what we are right now.
Mr Lerner, we've all had you sussed for a couple of years now so how about we get through the january window with the last bit of investment you'll be required to put in, get us through to the end of the season and then you can cash in your chips when that new TV deal kicks in. It'll be better for all of us that way. Because let's face it, you've proven that you havn't a feckin clue what you're doing.
'We all' have, have we?
Well if you haven't i suggest you're in a massive minority, probably of one.
-
I just don't get what's happening. We look like a team and management who have been out on the piss since the Anfield win.
-
Well the Chickens are coming home to roost in a rather spectacular way. Play an academy side with a sprinkling of Championship players and the odd highly paid mercenary who doesn't give a shit against top quality, well drilled sides that are pushing for Champions League and you get absolutely humiliated. And that's what we are right now.
Mr Lerner, we've all had you sussed for a couple of years now so how about we get through the january window with the last bit of investment you'll be required to put in, get us through to the end of the season and then you can cash in your chips when that new TV deal kicks in. It'll be better for all of us that way. Because let's face it, you've proven that you havn't a feckin clue what you're doing.
'We all' have, have we?
Well if you haven't i suggest you're in a massive minority, probably of one.
I doubt that very much indeed.
-
Fair enough, then lets hear the case for the defence of Mr Lerner and his stewardship over the last 2 years.
-
Well the Chickens are coming home to roost in a rather spectacular way. Play an academy side with a sprinkling of Championship players and the odd highly paid mercenary who doesn't give a shit against top quality, well drilled sides that are pushing for Champions League and you get absolutely humiliated. And that's what we are right now.
Mr Lerner, we've all had you sussed for a couple of years now so how about we get through the january window with the last bit of investment you'll be required to put in, get us through to the end of the season and then you can cash in your chips when that new TV deal kicks in. It'll be better for all of us that way. Because let's face it, you've proven that you havn't a feckin clue what you're doing.
'We all' have, have we?
Well if you haven't i suggest you're in a massive minority, probably of one.
Not all of us,Randy has till the end of the season for me,it's about time he showed he is still interested in us.If he doesn't by then,feel free to talk for me.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
-
This business of Lerner's girlfriend having a daughter who wants to get into Oxbridge comes as a bit of a surprise to me. When my son met Randy in a London restaurant and chatted at length to him he was with a very beautiful eurasian girl in her early 20s. Perhaps that was his girl friend's daughter. I am on good terms with a number of the admission tutors at Cambo so I will keep you posted if she rocks up to the technical college in the fens.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
-
5 at the back and 12-0 in the last 2 games. I think it tells us that our defenders are worse than ever.
-
We are just a crap side. No need to over analyse.
-
Just watched the highlights on MOTD. The space the defence were allowing the Spurs forwards to run into was absolutely criminal. Not good enough, Lambert/Lerner/whoever, the team in the last two games has been so poor that it was like we're not competing in the same league as Chelsea and Spurs. The team is physically weak, unable to push Prem level players about, that coupled with their mental fragility has made us a walk over in the last two games. The tactics have also been terrible, and I question the subs as well today.
Merry Christmas, Villa. Thanks a lot.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
So what is it that you actually see Dave?
At the moment all that I can see is a long hard slog and a very high possibility of relegation after all the early promise of Lerner's tenure.
It's a genuine question from a life-long supporter who is really hurting at the moment.
-
Wow. I was depressed after the match now reading this thread I'm far worse. The rumour of Lerner's apathy does tend to ring true and if so that puts us in a desperate situation. Relegation to the Championship is not the worst of our worries, a continual decline is. Couple this with Brian Green's very astute comments about Lambert's inability to motivate players and what a complete mess we are in.
-
Just watched the highlights on MOTD. The space the defence were allowing the Spurs forwards to run into was absolutely criminal. Not good enough, Lambert/Lerner/whoever, the team in the last two games has been so poor that it was like we're not competing in the same league as Chelsea and Spurs. The team is physically weak, unable to push Prem level players about, that coupled with their mental fragility has made us a walk over in the last two games. The tactics have also been terrible, and I question the subs as well today.
Merry Christmas, Villa. Thanks a lot.
Agreed about the physicality was the same at Chelsea
-
Are people really buying the idea that its motivation as to why we're falling short?
-
It did make me laugh when we had a corner and only 3 players in the box.
-
This is the quote that worries me -
- "I have belief they will do it. They will give us everything again.'
Unfortunately their 'everything' just hasn't been anywhere near good enough the last two games. A lot of our problems have been self inflicted, constantly giving the ball away and just ambling around off the pace. The players need to concentrate, be a lot more tactically aware and apparently a lot fitter. They are lacking in all of those departments at the moment.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
So what is it that you actually see Dave?
At the moment all that I can see is a long hard slog and a very high possibility of relegation after all the early promise of Lerner's tenure.
It's a genuine question from a life-long supporter who is really hurting at the moment.
What I see is the same position we're in regularly. A few good years, a couple of bad ones, same as every other club of our size. I see a manager who was the popular choice six months ago and was backed with a fair chunk of money in the summer. Or are we going to spend the rest of our lives saying "(Insert name of chairman here) Out" every time things go wrong?
-
Are people really buying the idea that its motivation as to why we're falling short?
I hope not as i think it's obvious that we are suffering from inexperience and a genuine lack of quality, particularly in midfield.
-
I saw a highly motivated Delph get about the park tonight
As ever, his tackles are woefully mistimed.
Absolutely incredible that we spent £6m on him.
8m.
He's fucking rubbish, I appreciate he has had his injury woes, but I have genuinely seen next to nothing that makes me think he is, or may become, good enough.
On top of that, he's utterly fucking brainless. When it comes to fuckwitted interventions or card-worthy challenges, he rivals that other dickhead Hutton.
-
Dave what is the latest that you have heard regarding Randy?
Has he lost interest or just taking a back seat?
-
Dave what is the latest that you have heard regarding Randy?
Has he lost interest or just taking a back seat?
I've heard nothing at all, and to be honest I never have.
-
Yes, I believe that our players lack motivation at critical points in many of our games. Shoulders slump, heads go down, players ball watch while their team mates have to cover for them. I believe that there is a lot of POTENTIAL in a good proportion of our squad. That potential is not being harnessed or directed sufficiently well. In my book that is motivation. Others may see it differently.
-
Dave, have you been able to read Randy's latest CBT report?
-
Yes, I believe that our players lack motivation at critical points in many of our games. Shoulders slump, heads go down, players ball watch while their team mates have to cover for them. I believe that there is a lot of POTENTIAL in a good proportion of our squad. That potential is not being harnessed or directed sufficiently well. In my book that is motivation. Others may see it differently.
Must say I agree with that. We really are lacking leadership throughout the whole club at the moment. None on the pitch, on the touchline/training pitch or in the boardroom.
-
Dave what is the latest that you have heard regarding Randy?
Has he lost interest or just taking a back seat?
I've heard nothing at all, and to be honest I never have.
Cheers for that Dave,I did hear something today about more costcutting(from a steward.....I know)
And was giving randy dogs abuse.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
So what is it that you actually see Dave?
At the moment all that I can see is a long hard slog and a very high possibility of relegation after all the early promise of Lerner's tenure.
It's a genuine question from a life-long supporter who is really hurting at the moment.
What I see is the same position we're in regularly. A few good years, a couple of bad ones, same as every other club of our size. I see a manager who was the popular choice six months ago and was backed with a fair chunk of money in the summer. Or are we going to spend the rest of our lives saying "(Insert name of chairman here) Out" every time things go wrong?
I've followed the Villa for over 35 years so I understand what you're saying, however times have changed and this feels different. There is a clear trend over the last few seasons of decline which if unchecked will inevitably lead to relegation. Maybe that's not the end of the world, maybe it will be, but tha's where we'll be heading unless something changes.
I like Lambert but football is not what it once was, GT1 would have struggled in todays landscape. Teams need continual investment, stability and a strong leadership, never has the man in charge of a Club (the Chairman) been so fundamental in a Clubs success as they are nowadays. We've lacked all of these in qualities from the top man in recent years.
I think he's directly responsible for where we find ourselves right now.
-
I saw the same problems today as I saw at Forest away in July. Absolutely nothing had improved, in fact it's got worse.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
So what is it that you actually see Dave?
At the moment all that I can see is a long hard slog and a very high possibility of relegation after all the early promise of Lerner's tenure.
It's a genuine question from a life-long supporter who is really hurting at the moment.
What I see is the same position we're in regularly. A few good years, a couple of bad ones, same as every other club of our size. I see a manager who was the popular choice six months ago and was backed with a fair chunk of money in the summer. Or are we going to spend the rest of our lives saying "(Insert name of chairman here) Out" every time things go wrong?
Hmmm.
Not too sure about that. This is now three years fighting relegation. I can think of a few clubs our size who haven't had a spell like that for a while.
I don't want Randy out. I want him to start running the club in a way that doesn't make it look like a constant struggle against oblivion.
Whatever one's general opinion on Randy, it is hard to be impressed with leadership which has led to vast spending, huge debt, and at the end of all that, a squad that looks poor when compared to Wigan's.
It is even less inspiring when you look at the way they dropped the happy marketing the minute it went pear shaped, and the fact he never turns up any more.
If we are going to be all hands to the pump fighting relegation again then it'd be nice to think we were all in this together.
As it is, Randy is nowhere to be seen, and we have a manager struggling to defend the performances of a bunch of kids.
The wage bill might look better, but ultimately, buy a load of cheap wage championship players, an unless you're a true management genius, you are really going to struggle.
Lambert has made his mistakes this season, that's true, but ultimately the stewardship of the club is down to Randy. Right now it looks yet again like he's running it by email. Badly.
-
-21 goal difference.
We lost by 12 over the last two and 5 against Man City. Shocking results, worse than we'd hoped but those defeats weren't a surprise.
It's a very young team who have been torn apart by teams that won the league, won the champions league and have been in and around champions league places and in Europe for years.
It's not nice but these players are learning the hard way.
I expect us to do reasonably well against Wigan and pick things up.
If nothing else this proves that there really is a gulf between the top clubs and the rest. Seasoned professionals wouldn't necessarily have met as many in but let's face it, we've been stuffed by Chelsea, Newcastle and others Iver the past couple of years.
We need Stan back, we need a couple if wiser heads and we'll be fine.
Lambert needs support. The kids need it too.
-
Shamelessly boring from me I'm afraid, Milner covered a lot other people's tracks in 2009-10. We have never got near to replacing him. In fact I doubt anyone at the club acknowledges this - Ireland, Makoun, Jenas, Bannan, KEA (I can add one or two other names) it is like a sick joke
This was combined at the time with the perfect storm of an egotistical manager walking out, followed by the hiring of an arrogant, aloof has-been and then subsequently replaced by a manager (someone even worse) who was inept and deluded beyond belief.
Oh and we have not much money for wages because there are so many overpaid fucking lamers (see all 3 managers above) sitting on the bench because their attitude is appaling and as such they are no better than those on the pitch.
Roll on Saturday - I don't have a good record when it comes to taking a guest to Villa Park (though the Toffee fan enjoyed the 3-3 on Easter Sunday a few years back). Hope this changes on Saturday.
-
Unforgivable!! and I have to listen to the diminuative cockney f*ck wit about how good the spuds are...unforgivable!!
Wtf Villa!! This is real life!
-
Wow, has A certain Mr Woodhall "sold out" ;)
-
Wow, has A certain Mr Woodhall "sold out" ;)
23 years ago (approx).
-
Ha nice one Dave, I just don't think Lerner should be defended right now. The decisions made over the last 3-4 years ago have been tragic.
-
It's hard to get your head around us at the moment; two excellent performances followed by two utterly woeful ones. We weren't world beaters after Liverpool and we're not the worst team in the universe now.
We need some of our injured players back and a couple of more experienced, steadying influencers added in January.
-
Stephen Ireland - cant wait to see the next media article telling us all how he cares, needs a chance to show how good he is, does a lot of great work for charity blah blah blah....I hope today was the last time I ever see him in a Villa shirt, the complete lack of inclination / effort to retrieve a ball that was played 2 foot behind him in the lead up to the 2nd goal was disgusting. Lets not forget he is the most experienced (& probably highest paid) player in a claret & blue shirt today...the example he set was pathetic. In 2.5 years he has contributed practically nothing to our football club and IMHO is a waster in the Ginola ilk. We need some creative players in our midfield for sure but they are utterly pointless if like Ireland they turn up for 10 minutes or 1 pass every 6 or 7 games which is Ireland's Villa career.
The midfield is a worry but I have faith that Lambert will address it in January and again next summer and come the start of next season the runners with little ball ability like Herd / Delph & Holman (+maybe Gabby) and the work-shy like Ireland will be fringe players or gone.
Big game on Saturday, need a positive performance to clear these two games out of the mind...we arent as good as we were made out to be after Anfield and we arent as bad as the last two results.....we are an average team in a league where two thirds of the teams are likewise, Wigan are another of those sides and it is essential to get those points and move on looking for reinforcements at the start of Jan.
-
Put simply:
We have no leader on the pitch.
Heads go down far too quickly when we go behind...belief evaporates
The Beast finds the lone striker role impossible, and needs to learn the offside rule sharpish
Losing is one thing, but the goals against is unforgivable and could be our undoing
3 experienced heads in jan is a must otherwise we are in big trouble
-
I saw plenty of effort and commitment on the pitch tonight, but far too little ability and tactical nous. I don't think anybody can hold their head up and say they earned their wages.
We were only level at half time by virtue of some very good last ditch tackles and throwing numbers into defence. I think this shows the commitment to the cause, but that commitment can only take you so far.
I have been saying for a while that we lack physical presence and experience, especially in midfield (KEA, Delph, Westwood, Bannon, Holman and even Ireland are all hobbits). Fixing this has to be a priority in the transfer window. If i can see it, our opponents can too. We were second best physically all over the pitch and KEA reminded me of a kid in the playground trying valiantly to win the ball off older lads, who just shrugged him off disdainfully.
To date this season I have had fans of Southampton, Man City, Chelsea, Everton and now Spurs telling me we are the worst team they have seen this season. I trust Paul Lambert to do a fine job for us in the long term but I am increasingly concerned about the short term issue of avoiding relegation, and we desperately and quickly need a few wise heads to help keep us up.
Tonight reminded me of a 4-0 home defeat to Arsenal in November 1986, where we worked like crazy to stay with them for an hour or so, but were eventually murdered. At that time the individuals looked fine on paper but as a team we weren't functioning. Lets hope we avoid the same fate this year.
-
That's the first time I've left a game early since we lost to Chelsea 3-0 (or 4-1?) in about 1998ish
-
I think the loss of Baker and the enforced change of shape killed us today. Going blow for blow was a bit like putting Amir Khan and his glass chin in with David Haye, a pretty decent heavyweight but not quite the best there is kind of thing. Going toe to toe and having to change the shape meant where they were better than us became harder to stem, and I thought Baker was having a really decent game until he went off. Westwood going off I could understand from the point of view Wigan is only 4 days away and he has played a lot recently, so was maybe feeling it a bit, but Delph and KEA are just awful at the moment. They need to improve so much.
-
Stephen Ireland - cant wait to see the next media article telling us all how he cares, needs a chance to show how good he is, does a lot of great work for charity blah blah blah....I hope today was the last time I ever see him in a Villa shirt, the complete lack of inclination / effort to retrieve a ball that was played 2 foot behind him in the lead up to the 2nd goal was disgusting. Lets not forget he is the most experienced (& probably highest paid) player in a claret & blue shirt today...the example he set was pathetic. In 2.5 years he has contributed practically nothing to our football club and IMHO is a waster in the Ginola ilk. We need some creative players in our midfield for sure but they are utterly pointless if like Ireland they turn up for 10 minutes or 1 pass every 6 or 7 games which is Ireland's Villa career.
The midfield is a worry but I have faith that Lambert will address it in January and again next summer and come the start of next season the runners with little ball ability like Herd / Delph & Holman (+maybe Gabby) and the work-shy like Ireland will be fringe players or gone.
Big game on Saturday, need a positive performance to clear these two games out of the mind...we arent as good as we were made out to be after Anfield and we arent as bad as the last two results.....we are an average team in a league where two thirds of the teams are likewise, Wigan are another of those sides and it is essential to get those points and move on looking for reinforcements at the start of Jan.
"we arent as good as we were made out to be after Anfield and we arent as bad as the last two results..."
Agree with the first point, disagree with the latter.
-
Put simply:
We have no leader on the pitch.
Heads go down far too quickly when we go behind...belief evaporates
The Beast finds the lone striker role impossible, and needs to learn the offside rule sharpish
Losing is one thing, but the goals against is unforgivable and could be our undoing
3 experienced heads in jan is a must otherwise we are in big trouble
We're already in big trouble bro, Bradford must be licking their lips...
-
I left on 83 mins in disgust, walked past two exits then walked back in, and watched from a different seat. I just can't leave early very well no matter how bad it is.
-
We desperately need some protection for the back four, oh and two new centre backs. Baker was doing very well before he got injured however Herd is no where near good enough, Clark will be a good Midfielder but he most definitely isn't a Captain or first line centre back. How much do we need a Petrov/Barry/Milner, a ball winner who can use the ball as well?
-
Well that was absolutely abysmal. The first 45 was as bad as i've seen yet we somehow managed to keep it 0-0. We played slightly better in the second half (and I do mean 'slightly' as in piss poor rather than utter shit) and let in 4
Face it folks. This revolution is built of twigs and i'm still to be convinced the leader has a clue
-
I left on 83 mins in disgust, walked past two exits then walked back in, and watched from a different seat. I just can't leave early very well no matter how bad it is.
Same. In my case I don't know whether its a matter of blind faith or just wanting to get my money's worth each & every time. Probably both.
-
We're already in big trouble bro, Bradford must be licking their lips...
They'll be licking their wounds afterwards though, the northern chimps.
-
Well it's no more than expected and its only 3 point. This and Chelsea loss will be made up against Wigan and Southampton. No worries.
Today Paul tried to stem Spurs in the first half by filling defence and midfield to the hilt. This worked to some extent with HT 0-0 however when he opened up to attack them in the second it was repeat of Chelsea game. There has been lot of rubbish posted on here tonight with words like garbage, shit, abysmal etc and both Lambert and players taking awful criticism. Please don't forget this manager and team were there in the two games before Chelsea and Spurs.
Today we started the second much better than Spurs but went one down after in-attentive play by Herd when he lost Defoe however straight after their goal with a little luck Benteke could have got his head to the floated cross from the left and it would have been 1-1. Soon after Benteke only had to release the ball a little earlier and anyone of out two players in the box could have tapped it in but as Luke would have it they broke from that and scored. Even than the ref could have blown for a free kick to us but didn't. These things change the game one way or another when the cookie crumbles.
We have a semi final and probable final to look forward to and will no doubt pick up the necessary points from remaining games to avoid the unmentionable.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
So what is it that you actually see Dave?
At the moment all that I can see is a long hard slog and a very high possibility of relegation after all the early promise of Lerner's tenure.
It's a genuine question from a life-long supporter who is really hurting at the moment.
What I see is the same position we're in regularly. A few good years, a couple of bad ones, same as every other club of our size. I see a manager who was the popular choice six months ago and was backed with a fair chunk of money in the summer. Or are we going to spend the rest of our lives saying "(Insert name of chairman here) Out" every time things go wrong?
Thank you for your honest reply Dave.
What worries me is that we're not just suffering "a couple of bad years"; we're now into our third consecutive year of decline and I see no sign of that ending any time soon. Indeed as injuries and suspensions gather, I just see the spiral of decline gathering pace.
I am 100% (110% in Sir Ron's money) behind Paul Lambert to do the best job that he possibly can to halt our decline but I do worry that Lerner has genuinely lost interest in us as a 'project' and that the will/expertise/passion to regenerate our ailing team is no longer there. I so hope that I am wrong but I have seen little to convince me otherwise.
-
I left on 83 mins in disgust, walked past two exits then walked back in, and watched from a different seat. I just can't leave early very well no matter how bad it is.
Same. In my case I don't know whether its a matter of blind faith or just wanting to get my money's worth each & every time. Probably both.
Well done both.
Never leave early no matter what the score is. We are supporters and we are there to support.
-
I think going out and getting Lambert who's stock was very high when we got him, followed by giving him 23 million or so to spend showed he is still taking an interest somewhat, there was not much more last summer the board could have done. They had a couple of horrible years, but IMO did not do much wrong last summer. In January, I am sure the importance of the new TV deal, coupled with some pointing of where Bolton and Blues are at the moment should ensure some decent money is made available. It is up to Lambert to get the right players in then that can help us improve.
-
I left on 90 minutes. In my defence I had been at the ground since 3pm and my feet were starting to go numb!
-
I think going out and getting Lambert who's stock was very high when we got him, followed by giving him 23 million or so to spend showed he is still taking an interest somewhat, there was not much more last summer the board could have done. They had a couple of horrible years, but IMO did not do much wrong last summer. In January, I am sure the importance of the new TV deal, coupled with some pointing of where Bolton and Blues are at the moment should ensure some decent money is made available. It is up to Lambert to get the right players in then that can help us improve.
Indeed, they've made some right balls ups the previous 2 seasons but hard to complain about their actions this season. Including wasting no time ditching McLeish.
-
If one word sums up this season so far, it's 'Frustration'. We've flickered from looking average, to bloody great ( at times againt Man Utd,Liverpool, Man City and Norwich) and to, well Southampton away and the last two games. Throw in some decent draws against Stoke and Arsenal (and not so decent against QPR) and i honestly don't think we're that far away. It's the frustration of seeing us go to Anfield and win one week then letting in 12 goals in two games a week later. It's hard to get your head round, but i think we'll be ok.
-
There has been lot of rubbish posted on here tonight with words like garbage, shit, abysmal etc and both Lambert and players taking awful criticism.
They deserve it though, I'm afraid. 0-12 over two games is unacceptable to any side.
-
I doubt that we will get any new players in midfield apart from Clark who may go there if the injury prone Vlaar and Dunne come back. Not saying that is what I want. But I can just see it happening. The thing with Clark is he is bothered and puts his neck on the line. He would improve midfield but it isn't the answer. It needs an old hand in there who leads by example and fights for the cause. KEA is crap and Ireland bottles tackles. Delph is a loose cannon but at least he can get stuck in. Herd is another honest player. How the genuinely good lads will thrive if we bring some quality in; about 6 of them very quickly.
-
Herd - stop fucking lunging in on the edge of the box. Villa as a whole? fuck knows, certainly isn't an easy solution. I think we need Jim to fix it for us to hammer Wigan or I really will start to worry.
-
There has been lot of rubbish posted on here tonight with words like garbage, shit, abysmal etc and both Lambert and players taking awful criticism. Please don't forget this manager and team were there in the two games before Chelsea and Spurs.
Or the three awful performances before those, Reading, QPR & Stoke where we managed to get 5 points but the performances were as bad and as uninspiring as anything dished up in the last two seasons. I guess they've been forgotten now though.
Were Norwich & Liverpool the exception or the norm ?. I guess we may disagree
-
I think going out and getting Lambert who's stock was very high when we got him, followed by giving him 23 million or so to spend showed he is still taking an interest somewhat.
Unfortunately, that 23 million is about 23 million short of what needed to be spent though, especially considering the player sales over the last 2 seasons.
I'm prepared to put that down to blind optimism the Board have in some of our Academy crop but if we don't spend at least that amount in January then we'll be in deep shit.
-
Delph is a loose cannon but at least he can get stuck in. Herd is another honest player.
Sadly they're both a potential red card in the making. Not to mention they're all effort and very little quality (as per Holman)
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
-
The bald fact which seems to be staring us in the face is that Lambert lacks motivational skills.
This is utter nonsense . The man has a consistent record of putting together football team and achieving performance levels that result in promotions etc. That can not be achieved without higher than average motivational ability.
-
Lets just beat Wigan please...
Deja vous as it's another Fulham at home landmark match in the offing...and yes, I'd
take right now a 94th minute Weimann super shit header on the floor kinda goal to settle matters!
-
No idea why Guzan didn't go out and make more of a challenge for the second goal as that was the killer. I was behind the goal in the North Stand and looked to me he could make the challenge.
From my seat in the Centre of Witton End upper I also thought the same. Initially when he moved I thought he could got to the ball but he stopped and was left in no mans land.
As for their fans "are you west ham in disguise" was funny but inappropriate considering where WH are this season.
-
We left after the second minute of injury time. By that time, there were not many left behind us. Probably people trying to beat the traffic to get home to parties etc after an awkward kick off time on a major Bank Holiday. As we got to the gate, the whistle blew. Apart from a jam in Trinity Road, caused by an excess of taxis, there was relatively little traffic, except the usual hold up at the lights by Ruskin Hall.
-
There has been lot of rubbish posted on here tonight with words like garbage, shit, abysmal etc and both Lambert and players taking awful criticism.
They deserve it though, I'm afraid. 0-12 over two games is unacceptable to any side.
It's amazing.
We lose 8 (eight) nil and then 4-0 and people are surprised words like shit and abysmal get used and the players are getting criticism?
I don't agree with the more doom laden of us, but really, I can't believe anyone is surprised by reactions and language like that.
-
At the tipping point, if it comes, plenty will start on the manager and use similar language. They usually wait for their leader's signal.
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
So what is it that you actually see Dave?
His bank balance?
-
Nobody would ever accuse you of not being fully behind Lerner, Dave.
Some of us can see a bit further than the end of our nose.
So what is it that you actually see Dave?
His bank balance?
Would you care to elaborate on that?
-
Guzan - solid, keep
Lowton ~ two years more experience needed
Bennett ~ three more years experience needed
Herd ~ never good enough go.
Clark ~ not a centre half, keep but in midfield.
Holman ~ a trier but not good enough I'm afraid ~ go.
Delph ~ never good enough. Go.
Albrighton ~ one season wonder, not good enough. Go.
Ireland. Good enough, no heart. Keep on account of lack of other options.
El Ahmadi ~ not good enough. Go.
Benteke ~ good enough but not there yet. Keep.
Ireland good enough are you having a laugh.
He was extremely slow
Never made a tackle
Over hit the passes he made
Went missing a lot
He was the worst player by far today and he's getting paid the most!
sorry mate but Ireland was far better than Holman. He was bloody awful and kEA , the sooner he f**ks off to Africa the better.
-
At the tipping point, if it comes, plenty will start on the manager and use similar language. They usually wait for their leader's signal.
I don't want that to happen. I think the team and manager deserve criticism over the last two games because whichever way you look at it, there were no positives to be taken from either game. We were stuffed out of sight in both. There's some mitigating circumstances, granted; the injury list is bad (and I still maintain that we have the worst luck in the league for injuries) and the team is having to learn to play together while the games keep coming thick and fast. However, that was essentially Lambert's team out there tonight (last night - whatever) and against Chelsea, and they were shit.
I'm going to the Wigan game as well. My mates think I've gone mental.
-
At the tipping point, if it comes, plenty will start on the manager and use similar language. They usually wait for their leader's signal.
I don't want that to happen.
Nor do I, but it will eventually. The point is, never be fooled by loads showing support for the manager. Many will turn at the drop of a hat.
-
We had a good chance to make it 1-1 but then they go up the park and score again. That’s what can happen when you are playing those kind of players.
Looks like PL knows full well our players aren't good enough then. Oh dear...
-
Where do you start after that performance?
The team was obviously picked for damage limitation and although we didn't play well in the first half we defended admirably. Losing Baker and Westwood, replacing them with Ireland and Albrighton did us no favours (neither can tackle or track back enough). The minute Baker went off the writing was on the wall in my opinion.
We really need Gabby, Vlaar and N'Zog back in the mix for Saturday. If they aren't I really fear for us if Baker, Weimann and Westwood are out.
I feel a bit sorry for Benteke, no support for two games running and whereas he keeps running into offside positions a bit more support up front for him is needed if he is going to have any impact.
Today was really shit and I am thoroughly depressed and angry (even my Spurzz supporting family feel sorry for me), but if we beat Wigan then hopefully we can look forward again.
Why does football and Villa do this to me? I'm supposed to be enjoying a Xmas break.
-
Yes, I believe that our players lack motivation at critical points in many of our games. Shoulders slump, heads go down, players ball watch while their team mates have to cover for them. I believe that there is a lot of POTENTIAL in a good proportion of our squad. That potential is not being harnessed or directed sufficiently well. In my book that is motivation. Others may see it differently.
I think the problem is about confidence rather than motivation. I expect a young side is more fragile mentally.
-
Yes, I believe that our players lack motivation at critical points in many of our games. Shoulders slump, heads go down, players ball watch while their team mates have to cover for them. I believe that there is a lot of POTENTIAL in a good proportion of our squad. That potential is not being harnessed or directed sufficiently well. In my book that is motivation. Others may see it differently.
I think the problem is about confidence rather than motivation. I expect a young side is more fragile mentally.
I'm sorry but lack of motivation thing is a red herring.
What we lack is quality and experience and we've been lacking both now for at least 2 years, made more obvious since we lost Stan.
All of the reasons you give Brian indicate a lack of quality and good habits that come with experience of playing against such players, not motivation. If you're constantly playing against teams that have far better and far more experienced players than you then you'll consistently struggle regardless of how much you may not want to. It's the way of the world, and not just in football.
Lack of general quality means we lose against the likes of Chelsea and Spurzz - lack of experience is why it was 12-0.
-
In my 20 odd yeaers of following the Villa I don't remember back to back tonkings like this, but strangely I still feel optomistic about this season.
Let's do Wigan on Saturday and get back on track.
-
In my 20 odd yeaers of following the Villa I don't remember back to back tonkings like this, but strangely I still feel optomistic about this season.
Let's do Wigan on Saturday and get back on track.
You don't remember it, because 12-0 over two games is an EPL record.
-
It really has been a humiliating few days for Aston Villa. But when you sell all your best players and replace them with relatively cheap lower league footballers it shouldn't come as a surprise when the teams turns out to be relegation fodder.
Lerner hasn't a clue, and he's dragging us down into the Championship.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
-
Lambert is starting to really piss me off. Why doesn't he tell the truth his exact words were 'I can't fault their effort' is he deluded the only shot we had on target was Albrighton's late on.
Why doesn't he just say we were poor and we need to do a bit of business in the window or else we'll be scrapping it out till the final game. Least he had a shave though.
I would respect these managers more if they just tell it like it is. Wish we had Clarke instead really hate sugar coaters.
Take away our cup run am i out of line for thinking this?
-
Lambert is starting to really piss me off. Why doesn't he tell the truth his exact words were 'I can't fault their effort' is he deluded the only shot we had on target was Albrighton's late on.
Why doesn't he just say we were poor and we need to do a bit of business in the window or else we'll be scrapping it out till the final game. Least he had a shave though.
I would respect these managers more if they just tell it like it is. Wish we had Clarke instead really hate sugar coaters.
Take away our cup run am i out of line for thinking this?
No , I wanted lambert as did many but his tactics , formation and substitutions have left me bemused at times - he needs to buy quality in January and experience- we need players who knw this league and can hit the ground running.
-
I actually used the word garbage last night , and I'll be honest I can't see anything wrong with it . 12 goals in two games is awful , last nights defending was awful and then you see stoke defend after there's no comparison . Hurts me to admit it but stokes defending puts ours to shame .
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
-
I will defend my view that our potentially good players lack motivation.
Answer me this question if you think they are properly motivated.
If Lambert can trot out the stock cliche that we must pick ourselves up and go again AFTER humiliating thrashings, when the damage is done, why can't he, or one of his assistant or the team captain get that same message of pick yourselves up and go again on to the field of play when they go a goal down?
I have been to most of the league and cup games this season, including all the home games and the constantly recurring theme is caving in.
My opinion, based on may years of watching many Villa games is that the capitulation arises through lack of leadership and lack of experience. The last manager packed the sides with green, untested players because he was on a mission to save money. Those young players should have been eased into the side alongside more confident experienced players but for financial reasons they were not and they have suffered for it, the most notable case being Marc Albrighton.
If players are nervous and uncertain and prone to lose concentration the way it is corrected is to motivate them. I do NOT mean wind them up to go and kick lumps out of the opposition, I mean reassure and direct and encourage them. That is motivation not shouting and bawling and kicking the kit bag.
Paul Lambert is not young and inexperienced, he has performed to the very highest level. It is his job, a job he is very well paid to do, to correct Fabian Delph flying into tackles like a human rotovator or Karim El Ahmadi ball watching or Barry Bannan running flat out from side to side of the pitch instead of up and down it and Stephen Ireland to stop playing the game as though he is a ballet dancer at the barre in front of a mirror.
My definition of that function is motivation. To make the player do the right things at the right time DURING THE GAME.
A football manager has three primary functions. To get the players. To coach the players. To direct the players how and where they will play in a game. That third function I describe as motivation. That is the way I see it. I respect your views, please respect mine.
-
Surely these suicidal tendencies should be reserved for a defeat against Wigan rather than top 4 chasing Spurs and Chelsea.
I'm not saying everything is rosy in the Villa Park garden but let's have some perspective, 3 points from Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs is about right.
-
there isnt 1 villa player who would get into that spurs team. defeat was always on the cards.
-
It isn't that we lost. We were murdered again, this time at home and again the scoreline flattered us. Things are as dodgy as ever they were last season for me. We're better to watch in patches and it's a more likeable team and manager, but people can't really be blamed for a bit of moaning!
-
I'm sorry but lack of motivation thing is a red herring.
What we lack is quality and experience and we've been lacking both now for at least 2 years, made more obvious since we lost Stan.
All of the reasons you give Brian indicate a lack of quality and good habits that come with experience of playing against such players, not motivation. If you're constantly playing against teams that have far better and far more experienced players than you then you'll consistently struggle regardless of how much you may not want to. It's the way of the world, and not just in football.
Lack of general quality means we lose against the likes of Chelsea and Spurzz - lack of experience is why it was 12-0.
Good post ozvilla and sums up our situation perfectly.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
Yes Norwich was an excellent result but lets not forget they made 6 changes , we have in spells looked decent but the lows far outweigh the highs, in 35 years watching villa never has it been as bad as conceding twelve goals in just 2games- January is a vital time and we have reason to be worried if this talk of Lerner being depressed and not interested is true.
-
We need to beat Wigan or we could go into freefall.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
Yes Norwich was an excellent result but lets not forget they made 6 changes , we have in spells looked decent but the lows far outweigh the highs, in 35 years watching villa never has it been as bad as conceding twelve goals in just 2games- January is a vital time and we have reason to be worried if this talk of Lerner being depressed and not interested is true.
And this talk of Lerner being depressed and not interested has come from where?
-
Where's this info on Lerner coming from ?
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
-
someone just made it up to make a point!
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
someone at the baggies, lol!
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
That's me convinced.
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
someone at the baggies, lol!
i can almost see lerner in one flew over the cuckoos nest with jack nicolson. close to the baggies management team, lmao!
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
That's me convinced.
Yes of course, he's really showing us all how committed he is by attending games and showing us his ambition and hopes for the club ain't he?
The last 3 years have been shit and nobody is more to blame for that than randy Lerner and his piss poor management and decision making, carry on dreaming of anfield clampy, it's a better world to be in that the current reality.
Lerner is doing the same poor job here as he did at the browns and hopefully he will sell up but who would buy us in the current situation.
It is common knowledge in the American press his divorce settlement and the financial collapse have hit him hard and he gave it his best shot at villa under o Neill , since then it's been nothing but a steady decline.
After 6 years in control all the promise of ambition and high hopes have long gone down the pan and the club is not in a good place at all.
-
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
That sounds like a business plan! The future of the great Aston Villa depends on a kid getting a university place!
-
Our problems haven't changed all season. We lack experience and, in particular, a strong presence to run the midfield.
Yesterday was crap but I am not ready to chuck in the towel just yet.
-
Our problems haven't changed all season. We lack experience and, in particular, a strong presence to run the midfield.
Yesterday was crap but I am not ready to chuck in the towel just yet.
Neither am I but make no mistake this coming transfer window is crucial, we have to bring in quality and experience who have played in this league and can hit the ground running- no time for bedding in players and getting them used to the league- we need results fast and the players we need will not come cheap.
-
I've read a lot of comments regarding Lerner in this thread and wondered whether it was worthwhile relaying a conversation I had with a guy who is well connected with the management team at the baggies and has a family member related to Faulkener.
The gist of his remarks were that Lerner is almost bipolar. A combination of his divorce and financial losses from banking interests have left him depressed and completely uninterested in almost everything for the past couple of years. The villa management team struggle to get him interested in club matters and are frustrated with his lack of involvement and it's impact on their plans to move the club forward.
On a brighter note, lerner's new girlfriend has a daughter who's very keen to get into either oxford or Cambridge, and if she gets in mum and lerner plan to spend more time in the . Faulkne et al hope this may rekindle lerner's interest in the club.
someone at the baggies, lol!
i can almost see lerner in one flew over the cuckoos nest with jack nicolson. close to the baggies management team, lmao!
You can almost picture Nicky Keyes playing the part of Nurse Ratched showing Randy pictures of Villa players to get him interested again.
-
I will defend my view that our potentially good players lack motivation.
Answer me this question if you think they are properly motivated ... My definition of that function is motivation. To make the player do the right things at the right time DURING THE GAME.
A football manager has three primary functions. To get the players. To coach the players. To direct the players how and where they will play in a game. That third function I describe as motivation. That is the way I see it. I respect your views, please respect mine.
The really worrying bit for me is the manner of our defeats. A creditable 3-0 defeat at Chelsea - wherein Lambert changed the formation because he saw how the home side were exploiting the gaps created in the 3 at the back line-up - followed by a 2-0 home defeat against Spurs after injuries to two key players - during which we had some attempts on goal and pushed the visitors hard - would have been disappointnig but would not have had the deeply demotivating impact that we have all felt.
(I, for one, am shell-shocked by the last few days; and so must the players be).
Given our resilience against Liverpool, NCFC and others this season, the question is: what has changed? I don't know the answer to this, but something has happened in the dresing room and / or with Lambert. Whatever has happens needs to be dealt with, and fast.
As Brian suggests in his post, there are 3-4 things that PL has to do before Saturday: (i) find and deploy the key to each player's personal motivation triggers; (ii) get the experienced players lifting the team in a more responsible manner; (iii) get some experience in the dressing room - even non-players like Vlaar and Petrov should be in there pre-game to lift the players and instill some confidence; (iv) ensure that the starting set of 11 players understands the formation, tactics and winning plan and sticks to it unless / until PL decides to change it.
PL needs to be more decisive and clear about his plans and changes to tactics durnig the game.
I've no doubt in my mind that Saturday is now a defining moment for this season: not so much because of the points (although we certainly need them) but for the squad's psychological well-being. Being tonked by Chelsea and Spurs is one thing: losing at home to Wigan is cumulatively a much bigger deal.
-
Thank you Mister E. You expressed my anxieties far more lucidly than I did, especially the expression "motivation triggers". Before Saturday we must address exactly what makes Delph so reckless (though he is suspended of course), Ireland so narcissistic, Bannan so profligate with his energy, Holman so poor in his passing. Not solve these deep rooted shortcomings but address them. Let us see Ireland put his foot in now and again, Bannan hug the touchline and make a fast, deep, penetrating run, Ahmadi get in the face of an opponent and Holman play the simple out ball.
It is so baffling why a team which can graft the way they did at Newcastle cannot do the same at Southampton or bounce back the way they did in the cup at Norwich and not against Tottenham. Whichever way you cut it you come back to the same conclusion that it is in their heads.
I am one hundred percent behind the idea that players like Vlaar and Gabby and God bless him if he could make it Stylian, get into the dressing room and put some steel in their backbones.
There have been a number of crossroads since the flouncing out of O'Neill but the Wigan game is the biggest by far. In a nutshell it will show one way or the other whether the Chelsea game broke our young team beyond repair.
-
I watched the last two games on Canal+ with my egg-chasing brother-in-law and my two glory-hunting, Perpignan Reds, don't know where Manchester is nephews.
The former said that as a supporter of Béziers Rugby Club he knows how I feel when your local team is not having a successful time of it. Funnily enough, the two nephews (both excellent youth footballers up to U-19 level, sat there and watched, refraining from any pisstaking or idiotic comments. They either knew what I was feeling or could see it was very bad.
At the end of the game, they asked me how I kept on following the Villa. I said I was born near the ground, it's my club and I had to, that was it. They seemed to comprehend this alien concept but must think I'm mad when you can watch teams with "stars" that win things. That said, they seemed to respect my steadfast commitment.
They were also chuffed when I left them 8 beers (only had 2 small cans as I was driving).
That is my post-match reaction: the shiteness of Villa enabled me to spend a couple of interesting hours with my hitherto uninterested nephews. I bet they will watch a few more games with me now.
-
I just don't buy the motivation line at all.
I look at how badly we defended at Stamford Bridge and last night and can only conclude that with a midfield as feeble as ours, a side as lacking in exprience as ours and critically a side (midfield) devoid of quality as ours, then we will continue to get run over by good sides.
A lack of motivation didn't give Bale all the room he wanted, it was the absence of a Vlaar screaming out an order to close him down and get tight.
Against the mid-table and lower sides; QPR, Stoke, Liverpool, Norwich etc, the energy and little quality we do have lets us get closer to them to pick up points.
I think we will beat Wigan on Saturday because they're a side that doesn't have much of the Q word. There is no Mata, Hazad, Lampard, Bale, Dembele, Defoe to expose our feeble midfield.
I think one or two of Lamberts remarks have been telling. He knows what we lack and I believe he will inject that into the spine of the team in January. Its never easy in the January window, but Carew and Young prove that quality can be found.
We have some critical gamea coming up and a chance to put Wigan and Southampton at arms length. We need to beat those around us and Lerner needs to make sure the funds are there for Lambert to make it more of a certainty.
One thing is for sure, I am very tired of us being shit.
-
I will defend my view that our potentially good players lack motivation.
Answer me this question if you think they are properly motivated ... My definition of that function is motivation. To make the player do the right things at the right time DURING THE GAME.
A football manager has three primary functions. To get the players. To coach the players. To direct the players how and where they will play in a game. That third function I describe as motivation. That is the way I see it. I respect your views, please respect mine.
(i) find and deploy the key to each player's personal motivation triggers; (ii) get the experienced players lifting the team in a more responsible manner; (iii) get some experience in the dressing room - even non-players like Vlaar and Petrov should be in there pre-game to lift the players and instill some confidence; (iv) ensure that the starting set of 11 players understands the formation, tactics and winning plan and sticks to it unless / until PL decides to change it.
Can you just explain what "find and deploy the key to each players personal motivation triggers" means exactly? i don't mean to sound dense but that just sounds like management speak to me (and boy i've sat through plenty of those meetings to last a lifetime). Please can you give me an example.
Get the experienced players lifting the team in a more responsible manner - Have I missed something, are they not at the moment then?
Get some experience in the dressing room - even non-players like Vlaar and Petrov should be in there pre-game to lift the players and instill some confidence; Again, they are probably already doing this, especially Vlaar. Do you know different?
And the reason we couldn't "bounce back the way they did in the cup at Norwich and not against Tottenham" are because Tottenham have far more quality than us in every department - it's not really a fair fight anymore.
We can over analyse this all we like, truth is, we have an inexperienced team with players that particularly against top opposition are being outclassed. Our squad isn't good enough and we have injuries to boot. Lets just thank McGrath we don't play Chelsea and Spurzz every week.
-
Maybe our 'lack of motivation' stems from the fact that no one can understand a fecking word that Lambert says?
-
I just don't buy the motivation line at all.
I look at how badly we defended at Stamford Bridge and last night and can only conclude that with a midfield as feeble as ours, a side as lacking in exprience as ours and critically a side (midfield) devoid of quality as ours, then we will continue to get run over by good sides.
A lack of motivation didn't give Bale all the room he wanted, it was the absence of a Vlaar screaming out an order to close him down and get tight.
Against the mid-table and lower sides; QPR, Stoke, Liverpool, Norwich etc, the energy and little quality we do have lets us get closer to them to pick up points.
I think we will beat Wigan on Saturday because they're a side that doesn't have much of the Q word. There is no Mata, Hazad, Lampard, Bale, Dembele, Defoe to expose our feeble midfield.
I think one or two of Lamberts remarks have been telling. He knows what we lack and I believe he will inject that into the spine of the team in January. Its never easy in the January window, but Carew and Young prove that quality can be found.
We have some critical gamea coming up and a chance to put Wigan and Southampton at arms length. We need to beat those around us and Lerner needs to make sure the funds are there for Lambert to make it more of a certainty.
One thing is for sure, I am very tired of us being shit.
I think we are all a bit tired of our current situation. It is time things were done to stop these mistakes that are costing us games. I just hope Lambert will be given the financial backing by the Chairman and there are actually some players around that can stop the rot. Will he go for seasoned, experienced players or " Young and hungry" players ? The latter would drop us further in the shite. Experience is what is needed and now.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
This "blip" has lasted now for the last 3 seasons, and we're 3 points above the relegation zone going into the new year. When do you start to get worried?
-
Yes there is a gulf in class but we don't see other teams get turned over by the big boys so easily, tactically lambert got it Badly wrong at Chelsea and last night as soon as the 1st goal went in you could see heads drop - there is a soft side to us that makes us roll over easily , it happened at saints and city too and lambert needs to address this problem and add some steel to the side - we need a nasty get stuck in captain to organise things on the pitch .
-
Can we resurrect the General thread? Must admit I was never too comfortable with it as it seemed to consist of people kissing his backside or asking banal questions and when he was challenged on anything went strangely quiet or came out with some military analogy which made me think of the pilot in Airplane.
It could be quite cathartic to be able to ask questions with maybe a mod posting 'phone Nicky Keyes' as the answer to everything.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
This "blip" has lasted now for the last 3 seasons, and we're 3 points above the relegation zone going into the new year. When do you start to get worried?
When i decide it's worth worrying about.
-
Can we resurrect the General thread? Must admit I was never too comfortable with it as it seemed to consist of people kissing his backside or asking banal questions and when he was challenged on anything went strangely quiet or came out with some military analogy which made me think of the pilot in Airplane.
It could be quite cathartic to be able to ask questions with maybe a mod posting 'phone Nicky Keyes' as the answer to everything.
Yes too many falling over themselves to buy him a pie or a pint , quite funny really.
-
January is a huge month for us. Go out and spend real money on proven PL class and we'll pull away from the relegation zone. Continue this ridiculous policy of recruiting from the lower leagues and we could be genuinely looking at Championship football next season.
Lerner's obsession with employing young unproven players on relatively low wages will cost us our PL status. The man is completely out of his depth.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
This "blip" has lasted now for the last 3 seasons, and we're 3 points above the relegation zone going into the new year. When do you start to get worried?
When i decide it's worth worrying about.
Well if losing 8-0 and 0-4 doesn't worry you then you should be safe to carry on thinking wistfully of anfield and the day we won at mid table Liverpool.
Funny you didn't take that approach last season when we won at Chelsea.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
This "blip" has lasted now for the last 3 seasons, and we're 3 points above the relegation zone going into the new year. When do you start to get worried?
When i decide it's worth worrying about.
No offence, but you're deluded.
-
We are at the moment without any experienced heads. Our midfield is very weak. Yesterday we saw in the first half a team without even a tiny bit of confidence we defended because we had to. We were standing off all the Spuds divers and frightened to go near them. In the second half we came out a little more physical. The second Goal was not right and should have been brought back for a foul. This of course resulted in the dropping of heads and calamity. Delph and El Ahmadi are just not good enough.
January may bring us something, we really need a bit of help for the youngsters. They are having a tough time right now and clearly against the bigger teams really lack. There is a massive gulf. but they are young enough can learn and Lambert is probably the right guy to get them there. he needs to break the love affair with Delph and Lerner needs to give him some of the $bn he got from the recent Browns sale! Lambert needs to get in a couple of strong experienced heads to steady the ship a little. A strong defender and a hard thinking midfielder , we have never replaced Stan.
Onwards and upwards we really have to beat those around us! 3 points against Wigan and three points against Saints and it will be a different picture.
-
I don't think they need to be proven in the Premiership. Johnny Foreigner seems to have an ability to play the game and not cost as much as established Premiership players.
Look at Jacob, Mulumbu, Michu and Olsen. They'd have cost us less than £3 million and would have us competing in the top half.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
This "blip" has lasted now for the last 3 seasons, and we're 3 points above the relegation zone going into the new year. When do you start to get worried?
When i decide it's worth worrying about.
No offence, but you're deluded.
None taken.
-
I don't think they need to be proven in the Premiership. Johnny Foreigner seems to have an ability to play the game and not cost as much as established Premiership players.
Look at Jacob, Mulumbu, Michu and Olsen. They'd have cost us less than £3 million and would have us competing in the top half.
Premier League quality is what I meant. If they come from abroad, that's fine. It's the obsession with signing "young and hungry" players from the lower leagues that pisses me off. "Young and hungry" is just code for "cheap" in reality.
-
I don't think they need to be proven in the Premiership. Johnny Foreigner seems to have an ability to play the game and not cost as much as established Premiership players.
Look at Jacob, Mulumbu, Michu and Olsen. They'd have cost us less than £3 million and would have us competing in the top half.
Those examples are good ones but there are a lot of foreign imports who take time to settle and get used to the pace of the premier league, I think we need players who have to hit the ground running , we can't afford players to take a few games to settle in - its a vital window no doubt.
-
There is a direct correlation between our three year decline and the absence of a Scandinavian at centre half.
-
I don't think they need to be proven in the Premiership. Johnny Foreigner seems to have an ability to play the game and not cost as much as established Premiership players.
Look at Jacob, Mulumbu, Michu and Olsen. They'd have cost us less than £3 million and would have us competing in the top half.
Premier League quality is what I meant. If they come from abroad, that's fine. It's the obsession with signing "young and hungry" players from the lower leagues that pisses me off. "Young and hungry" is just code for "cheap" in reality.
It depends. I think Lowton has been great overall. Bennett was'nt looking too bad until the game where he got sent off and Westwood has'nt looked out of place. There's a case for bringing someone in if he spots potential but i hope he dose'nt overdo it.
-
It isn't that we lost. We were murdered again, this time at home and again the scoreline flattered us. Things are as dodgy as ever they were last season for me. We're better to watch in patches and it's a more likeable team and manager, but people can't really be blamed for a bit of moaning!
spot on . Chelsea should have had 13 and Spurz at least 8 . Be nice to actually get some shots on target. Embarrassing , we look worse than last season.
-
I don't think they need to be proven in the Premiership. Johnny Foreigner seems to have an ability to play the game and not cost as much as established Premiership players.
Look at Jacob, Mulumbu, Michu and Olsen. They'd have cost us less than £3 million and would have us competing in the top half.
Premier League quality is what I meant. If they come from abroad, that's fine. It's the obsession with signing "young and hungry" players from the lower leagues that pisses me off. "Young and hungry" is just code for "cheap" in reality.
It depends. I think Lowton has been great overall. Bennett was'nt looking too bad until the game where he got sent off and Westwood has'nt looked out of place. There's a case for bringing someone in if he spots potential but i hope he dose'nt overdo it.
The signings he has made have been decent , I think Lowton and Bennett will both prove good full backs but its midfield where we are piss poor with very average players, Westwood is very good but kea is probably the worst of lamberts buys.
Someone like Scott Parker would be ideal to add experience albeit on a short contract .
-
The midfield is exactly the area that needs two or three quality players.
-
The midfield is exactly the area that needs two or three quality players.
Exactly, put a decent solid midfield on the pitch and the defence would look better as would the forward line with players who can protect the back 4 and create chances for the forwards.
-
We need the new scout to come to the party - hope we are going to pull a couple of gems out of the Bundesliga, no more from the Dutch league
-
I remember Gary Neville saying he likes to watch Villa now as they use to bore him to death. No f**king wonder , there is plenty of goals .
Can I have being bored to death just to stay in this league this season.
-
People talk about not wanting lower league players. At the moment, we look like a non-league outfit getting a respectable drubbing from a top side. Each of the last two games we were begging for the final whistle. If the unthinkable happens, and we lose to Wigan and Bradford, it will get nasty. I think we will struggle against Ipswich. The atmosphere in the club, before yesterday's game, was of total dejection. Something has to be done and it starts with a rallying call, and action, from the very top. Injuries will continue to mount. We are worse than last season, worse than the Penrice and Aspinall days, and I think we are worse than when we went into the Third Division.
-
I don't think they need to be proven in the Premiership. Johnny Foreigner seems to have an ability to play the game and not cost as much as established Premiership players.
Look at Jacob, Mulumbu, Michu and Olsen. They'd have cost us less than £3 million and would have us competing in the top half.
Premier League quality is what I meant. If they come from abroad, that's fine. It's the obsession with signing "young and hungry" players from the lower leagues that pisses me off. "Young and hungry" is just code for "cheap" in reality.
Whilst I agree with you Saunders, it's going to be mighty difficult to persuade quality players to come here for a relegation scrap.
The horse has bolted, the signings should have been made in the Summer and bearing in mind the paucity of the squad, £23m was not nearly enough.
As others have pointed out on here, the TV revenues shoot up 70% next season, get relegated and it will be harder than ever to get back up.
And yes, it is Lerner's fault, all very well saying about all the good things he's done in the past, but it means Jack Shit if you're going to pull the ladder up when you lose interest.
A Premiership club needs continual and sustained investment, not just when you feel like it, if he didn't realise that, he should never have become a 'custodian' in the first place.
This current side is as poor as anything i've ever seen in my 38 years of supporting the club.
That's some achievement Blandy.
-
Why we got so many bloody injuries ? it was bad when Houlier was manager too . what they f**k are they doing in training. Just let them stick to the playstation please.
-
After last night I have decided to try not to get as emotionally involved this season. I was a wreck by April of last year and constantly on here trying to find some positives.
I think I am going to simply adopt a 'hope for the best' approach to the second half of the season.
-
Is this the transfer thread?
-
Why we got so many bloody injuries ? it was bad when Houlier was manager too . what they f**k are they doing in training. Just let them stick to the playstation please.
'Twas ever thus. The few good players invariably get injured, sometimes for so long that you forget we have them.
-
I don't think they need to be proven in the Premiership. Johnny Foreigner seems to have an ability to play the game and not cost as much as established Premiership players.
Look at Jacob, Mulumbu, Michu and Olsen. They'd have cost us less than £3 million and would have us competing in the top half.
Premier League quality is what I meant. If they come from abroad, that's fine. It's the obsession with signing "young and hungry" players from the lower leagues that pisses me off. "Young and hungry" is just code for "cheap" in reality.
Whilst I agree with you Saunders, it's going to be mighty difficult to persuade quality players to come here for a relegation scrap.
The horse has bolted, the signings should have been made in the Summer and bearing in mind the paucity of the squad, £23m was not nearly enough.
As others have pointed out on here, the TV revenues shoot up 70% next season, get relegated and it will be harder than ever to get back up.
And yes, it is Lerner's fault, all very well saying about all the good things he's done in the past, but it means Jack Shit if you're going to pull the ladder up when you lose interest.
A Premiership club needs continual and sustained investment, not just when you feel like it, if he didn't realise that, he should never have become a 'custodian' in the first place.
Players will come if you pay them the going rate. People talk of the cash we spent last summer, and yes we did spend a lot of money. The problem with our spending these days is that we simply refuse to pay the wages for PL standard players. That's why we have to sign players from the lower leagues on a pittance who are clearly out of their depth. Until this ridiculous policy is scrapped we'll continue to struggle and spiral into decline.
Lerner is to blame, full stop.
-
well If we sell the likes of Bent and replace with Murray from palace. championship here we come.
-
well If we sell the likes of Bent and replace with Murray from palace. championship here we come.
Charlie Austin more like.
-
I remember Gary Neville saying he likes to watch Villa now as they use to bore him to death. No f**king wonder , there is plenty of goals .
Can I have being bored to death just to stay in this league this season.
Last season it was: I'd rather us play football and lose than play boring, not to lose, football.
I lost count of the number of comments: Rather a 4-3 loss than a poor 1-1 draw, or a poor 1-0 win
We've been well and truly thumped the last two game, but we still tried to play football.
I've said nearly all season that we need our midfield needs beefing up as we're pretty light weight in the middle. that's why we got thumped so heavily in the last two games.
-
Can you just explain what "find and deploy the key to each players personal motivation triggers" means exactly?
What I meant was that people have various psychological drivers that individually get them pumped up and focussed. Sports psychologists are able to identify these and help players to perform more effectively as a result. What we've seen over the last two games is a set of players whose heads have 'gone' after the first couple of goals; they seem mentally fragile even though coming off two excellent games.
Get the experienced players lifting the team in a more responsible manner - Have I missed something, are they not at the moment then?
I don't know! but it doesn't look like it to me.
Get some experience in the dressing room - even non-players like Vlaar and Petrov should be in there pre-game to lift the players and instill some confidence; Again, they are probably already doing this, especially Vlaar. Do you know different?
Ditto; I don't know but it would help if they were.
And the reason we couldn't "bounce back the way they did in the cup at Norwich and not against Tottenham" are because Tottenham have far more quality than us in every department - it's not really a fair fight anymore.
I'd agree to a point, but Spurs have shown frailty in their results this season; they're not unbeatable. The fact is that we didn't go out there with a winning mentality. The players who have demonstrated resilience and skills previously just were not 'at the races'.
Against Chelsea Benitez out-thought PL and PL did not respond during the game to right what was wrong. And Chelsea - in full flow - are formidable.
We can over analyse this all we like, truth is, we have an inexperienced team with players that particularly against top opposition are being outclassed. Our squad isn't good enough and we have injuries to boot. Lets just thank McGrath we don't play Chelsea and Spurzz every week.
You're right to a point but we weren't outclassed against ManUre or Arsenal - in fact we gave them both a decent game. What happened this week is more about PL getting things wrong tactically and the players losing the plot psychologically.
-
I remember Gary Neville saying he likes to watch Villa now as they use to bore him to death. No f**king wonder , there is plenty of goals .
Can I have being bored to death just to stay in this league this season.
Last season it was: I'd rather us play football and lose than play boring, not to lose, football.
I lost count of the number of comments: Rather a 4-3 loss than a poor 1-1 draw, or a poor 1-0 win
We've been well and truly thumped the last two game, but we still tried to play football.
I've said nearly all season that we need our midfield needs beefing up as we're pretty light weight in the middle. that's why we got thumped so heavily in the last two games.
well Sky love putting us on as we always get spanked , probably why Neville likes us , he also said Villa Park was his fave ground and we know why.
I didnt see any football being played last night , we were embarrassing , we looked like a division four outfit to be fair .
Of course last year was awful , worse I can remember in a long time , I use to get depressed now im just embarrassed at least .
4-3 loss was what I was expecting a few times not exactly a 4 -0 home loss and a 8 (should have been 13 ) drubbing.
-
I agree that paying low wages is and will be a barrier to signing better quality players. I am not defending the policy of cutting the wages bill at the cost of jeopardizing our Premiership survival but the reason why it has come about is that the cheese parers on the board can point at any number of players signed by previous managers who have been brought in on grossly inflated money and excessively long contracts. The rumour has it that the player who only came on a sub for Tottenham yesterday was on his way to us on £100K a week until Lerner said no. Was that a wise decision or a foolish one? Only time will tell.
-
When I saw Parker coming on, I thought to myself that he's just the sort of player we need.
Instead we have to contend with the likes of KEA and bomb scare Holman.
-
When I saw Parker coming on, I thought to myself that he's just the sort of player we need.
Insted we have to contend with the likes of KEA and bomb scare Holman.
More chance of Parker and Lady Penelope in the midfield
-
This reminds me very much of the mid sixties, even worse perhaps. The club then had five good or very good players in Withers,Sleewenhoek,Burrows Woosnam and Hateley. The others just made up the numbers. They were not good enough and we were relegated.
We have even less of the required standard of player now. I dont know what Lambert can do. If Mr Lerner for whatever reason does not provide him with substantial funds then Mr Lambert has a huge task on his hands to keep us up.
Its obvious from his interviews on Sky he is not a great verbal motivator of players and I personally did not like the way in which he dealt with the Darren Bent situation.
If he was told before he took on the job he would have very little finance to play with all well and good he must have accepted that.
I, however, would have expected better than we have got after five months.
Mr Lerner may have personal problems but a lot of money I think. If he has lost interest thats his perogative, perhaps he should attempt to sell the club on and make even more money.
but my New Years wish is that he would say anything at all regarding the future of Aston Villa
So we will all know where we stand!
-
Don't hold your breath.
-
Players will come if you pay them the going rate. People talk of the cash we spent last summer, and yes we did spend a lot of money. The problem with our spending these days is that we simply refuse to pay the wages for PL standard players. That's why we have to sign players from the lower leagues on a pittance who are clearly out of their depth. Until this ridiculous policy is scrapped we'll continue to struggle and spiral into decline.
Lerner is to blame, full stop.
I disagree. I don't think the quality of the signings is anything like that.
I think Lambert looked at the squad and saw:
Given, Dunne, Ireland, Nzogbia, Gabby and Bent and though he had enough premier league experience that he could add a couple of experienced internationals (Vlaar and KEA) along with another who'd already been signed and then fill the squad out with promising players who would grow around that experienced core.
The problem is:
Given - Not the player he was, had a really poor world cup and started the season in terrible form.
Dunne - Was due back in september but is still sidelined, has never been available to PL
Ireland - Looks pretty but offers very little end product
Nzogbia - See Ireland but add in a hint of headless chicken
Gabby - No longer a goal threat so is all hard work but again very little end product
Bent - Needed the 3 above to produce for him to be the player he can be
Vlaar - Started very well, injury is a big blow
KEA - Hasn't looked up to speed with the league at all
Holman - Works hard and does offer something around the box but he gives the ball away too much
So of that list the only one who has really provided the backbone we should've expected is Vlaar.
That's the problem.
It's very easy to shout that Lerner needs to throw more money at it but the reality is the experience we need should be there in the main but for whatever reason all but 1 of them are offering well below the requirements (and their own abilities).
-
Well its the morning after the night before....again.
I drove back to Bristol last night feeling very deflated and depressed, not helped by a 1hr delay on the M5......but it also gave me a chance to think and try to clear my head. I was thinking about the following - although I have no answers as yet:
1 One up front - was this out of necessity through injuries or a reaction to Chelsea...but did we really expect to contain one of the best attacks in the league for 90 mins
2 Why is there so much space between our defence and forwards. There were times last night when there was actually 40 yards for Spurs to run in to. Lambert was on the side shouting for us to compress the space but we just didn't. In other games this season we have done this which allowed us to close players down quickly.
3 It looked like a senior side versus a youth team last night in physical size - especially in the middle. The better sides all seem to have a physical but athletic presence in the middle. We seem very small and weak in the most important area of the pitch.
4 I know we are young and inexperienced but surely we should have a degree of technical ability required at this level. Last night our first touch was poor and we didn't seem able to control it the way Spurs did.
5 Despite everything that happened on the pitch - I was so proud of our support in the last 10 mins
6 Like any business that's having a hard time the employees look for leadership and direction. As a struggling business we need to have a visible Chairman with a very specific commitment to the club and a plan to work with.....I hate feeling like we are a ruder-less ship. So lets have some leadership Mr Lerner.
This morning I also feel a sense of perspective.....I thought this season would be a roller coaster of ups and downs and that's exactly how its turning out. Currently we are in a down period, Saturday can resolve that for us. The one thing i am sure of is that the young kids will be hurting as much as we are and the only thing we can do to help is get behind them on Saturday.
-
Players will come if you pay them the going rate. People talk of the cash we spent last summer, and yes we did spend a lot of money. The problem with our spending these days is that we simply refuse to pay the wages for PL standard players. That's why we have to sign players from the lower leagues on a pittance who are clearly out of their depth. Until this ridiculous policy is scrapped we'll continue to struggle and spiral into decline.
Lerner is to blame, full stop.
I disagree. I don't think the quality of the signings is anything like that.
I think Lambert looked at the squad and saw:
Given, Dunne, Ireland, Nzogbia, Gabby and Bent and though he had enough premier league experience that he could add a couple of experienced internationals (Vlaar and KEA) along with another who'd already been signed and then fill the squad out with promising players who would grow around that experienced core.
The problem is:
Given - Not the player he was, had a really poor world cup and started the season in terrible form.
Dunne - Was due back in september but is still sidelined, has never been available to PL
Ireland - Looks pretty but offers very little end product
Nzogbia - See Ireland but add in a hint of headless chicken
Gabby - No longer a goal threat so is all hard work but again very little end product
Bent - Needed the 3 above to produce for him to be the player he can be
Vlaar - Started very well, injury is a big blow
KEA - Hasn't looked up to speed with the league at all
Holman - Works hard and does offer something around the box but he gives the ball away too much
So of that list the only one who has really provided the backbone we should've expected is Vlaar.
That's the problem.
It's very easy to shout that Lerner needs to throw more money at it but the reality is the experience we need should be there in the main but for whatever reason all but 1 of them are offering well below the requirements (and their own abilities).
agree . I thought with the experience we had and the young players coming in and the young ones already at the club , samir and Gardner etc we would have enough until we looked at the situation in January . we did spend money but injuries has not helped , neither has formations at times.
Actually thinking about it we have a lot of players , maybe not the quality but loads of players , you would think we would be ok . midfield is a massive concern thou.
-
The last 2 games haven't told us anything we don't already know. That we are lacking quality, leadership and physical presence on the pitch. The endeavour and willing is there but against decent teams they don't compensate enough. A number of our players are just not good enough, the likes of KEA for instance offer nothing. I actually thought Delph was ok in his natural position behind the strikers. Protecting the defence however he is a car crash waiting to happen. Real shame about Baker as he is IMO our best CH. Ireland is shocking and again flatters to deceive and offers nothing.
I do trust Lambert and hope that we strengthen adequately in Jan. Tbh though I worry the League Cup run will prove a distraction if it isn't already.
Saturday is massive......UTV
-
Woe is me..I have to avoid that diminuative loudmouth little Cockney twerp for a week. I am not allowing him to spoil my New Year!!
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
This "blip" has lasted now for the last 3 seasons, and we're 3 points above the relegation zone going into the new year. When do you start to get worried?
When i decide it's worth worrying about.
Well if losing 8-0 and 0-4 doesn't worry you then you should be safe to carry on thinking wistfully of anfield and the day we won at mid table Liverpool.
Funny you didn't take that approach last season when we won at Chelsea.
I just prefer not to come on here and yell 'Lerner Out' every time there's a mini crisis.
-
I wonder how Lerner is really feeling now about the state of things , in fact I wonder if he even knows what the result was tonight
Yes i'm sure he does know the result. Were you asking the same thing after the win at Anfield?
We are in the present not the past clampy, two defeats with 12 goals conceded- you are only as good as your last game pal.
If you wish to dream about anfield go ahead , but one swallow doesn't make a summer- the table doesn't lie, lowest goals scored, worst goal difference , but hey we won at anfield so why worry.?
I was delighted with the win there but I have been asking the question is Lerners heart really in it anymore for well over 2 years now not just 2 games.
Wake up from your anfield dreams and smell the roses clampy- 8-0 and 0-4 is disgraceful.
It's not just Anfield though Eastie. We went to Norwich and put 4 past them the game before that. Before that we went on a decent run where we kept a few clean sheets and picked up a few points and things started to look a bit brighter.
The last two games have been abysmal but i like to look at the overall picture, not just trot out 'it's Lerner's fault' whenever we hit a blip.
This "blip" has lasted now for the last 3 seasons, and we're 3 points above the relegation zone going into the new year. When do you start to get worried?
When i decide it's worth worrying about.
Well if losing 8-0 and 0-4 doesn't worry you then you should be safe to carry on thinking wistfully of anfield and the day we won at mid table Liverpool.
Funny you didn't take that approach last season when we won at Chelsea.
I just prefer not to come on here and yell 'Lerner Out' every time there's a mini crisis.
Mini crisis?? I'd love to hear your definition of a major crisis.
-
Oh and Eastie, that day we 'won at Anfield' which you've brought up several times this morning, it got us 3 points, which was more telling than the team we beat.
-
Mini crisis my arse.
-
The last 2 games haven't told us anything we don't already know. That we are lacking quality, leadership and physical presence on the pitch. The endeavour and willing is there but against decent teams they don't compensate enough. A number of our players are just not good enough, the likes of KEA for instance offer nothing. I actually thought Delph was ok in his natural position behind the strikers. Protecting the defence however he is a car crash waiting to happen. Real shame about Baker as he is IMO our best CH. Ireland is shocking and again flatters to deceive and offers nothing.
I do trust Lambert and hope that we strengthen adequately in Jan. Tbh though I worry the League Cup run will prove a distraction if it isn't already.
Saturday is massive......UTV
Pretty much how I see it. The loss of the 2 experienced Center backs is worrying. Clark and Herd are doing their best (Herd made 3 class tackles yesterday, although I think that he is better in Midfield), but the lack of any Midfield, means that yesterday that got swamped. It would be great to have the opportunity to play Clarke as the DM, but that isn't feasible at the moment.
KEA should be nowhere this Team. I have seen absolutely nothing from him to show me that that he is a Premiership standard player and as for Ireland, dear oh dear.
-
Ahmadi is lazy and one of the worst ball watchers I have ever seen in a Villa shirt. He will not go face to face with opponents and seems to be permanently tied to an opposition player like the arse end of a pantomime horse.
My favourite post of the day.
-
Oh and Eastie, that day we 'won at Anfield' which you've brought up several times this morning, it got us 3 points, which was more telling than the team we beat.
You brought the Liverpool game into it on page 18 clampy, as some sort of defence to Lerner.
Yes three valuable points, but the facts are we have scored less than any other team , have the worst goal difference on the league, have won 3 home games on a year and 3 away games on a year , but you regard it as a mini- crisis ?
On top of that we have concede 12 goals in 2 games and been lucky not to lose by more- a squad of young , inexperienced lads and a few overpaid overrated under performers- but why worry eh clampy?
Bloody hell man wake up and smell the roses!
-
Ahmadi is lazy and one of the worst ball watchers I have ever seen in a Villa shirt. He will not go face to face with opponents and seems to be permanently tied to an opposition player like the arse end of a pantomime horse.
My favourite post of the day.
Seconded
-
The last 2 games haven't told us anything we don't already know. That we are lacking quality, leadership and physical presence on the pitch. The endeavour and willing is there but against decent teams they don't compensate enough. A number of our players are just not good enough, the likes of KEA for instance offer nothing. I actually thought Delph was ok in his natural position behind the strikers. Protecting the defence however he is a car crash waiting to happen. Real shame about Baker as he is IMO our best CH. Ireland is shocking and again flatters to deceive and offers nothing.
I do trust Lambert and hope that we strengthen adequately in Jan. Tbh though I worry the League Cup run will prove a distraction if it isn't already.
Saturday is massive......UTV
Pretty much how I see it. The loss of the 2 experienced Center backs is worrying. Clark and Herd are doing their best (Herd made 3 class tackles yesterday, although I think that he is better in Midfield), but the lack of any Midfield, means that yesterday that got swamped. It would be great to have the opportunity to play Clarke as the DM, but that isn't feasible at the moment.
KEA should be nowhere this Team. I have seen absolutely nothing from him to show me that that he is a Premiership standard player and as for Ireland, dear oh dear.
The thought of Clark in midfield has crossed my mind a number of times. Problem is, if we get Dunne and Vlaar back before the window ends, will Clark be seen as the solution to our problems?
An investment of four decent midfielders would not go amiss, it is that desperate. Clark would be needed at the back again as Vlaar looks injury prone and Dunne will never have the fitness.
I see a permanent place for Clark in the team. He gets stuck in and has vision. Just hope this latest situation doesn't knock him back.
-
The last 2 games haven't told us anything we don't already know. That we are lacking quality, leadership and physical presence on the pitch. The endeavour and willing is there but against decent teams they don't compensate enough. A number of our players are just not good enough, the likes of KEA for instance offer nothing. I actually thought Delph was ok in his natural position behind the strikers. Protecting the defence however he is a car crash waiting to happen. Real shame about Baker as he is IMO our best CH. Ireland is shocking and again flatters to deceive and offers nothing.
I do trust Lambert and hope that we strengthen adequately in Jan. Tbh though I worry the League Cup run will prove a distraction if it isn't already.
Saturday is massive......UTV
Pretty much how I see it. The loss of the 2 experienced Center backs is worrying. Clark and Herd are doing their best (Herd made 3 class tackles yesterday, although I think that he is better in Midfield), but the lack of any Midfield, means that yesterday that got swamped. It would be great to have the opportunity to play Clarke as the DM, but that isn't feasible at the moment.
KEA should be nowhere this Team. I have seen absolutely nothing from him to show me that that he is a Premiership standard player and as for Ireland, dear oh dear.
The thought of Clark in midfield has crossed my mind a number of times. Problem is, if we get Dunne and Vlaar back before the window ends, will Clark be seen as the solution to our problems?
An investment of four decent midfielders would not go amiss, it is that desperate. Clark would be needed at the back again as Vlaar looks injury prone and Dunne will never have the fitness.
I see a permanent place for Clark in the team. He gets stuck in and has vision. Just hope this latest situation doesn't knock him back.
I've never been totally convinced by Clark as a centre half. He's not been crap there, far from it but he's looked decent in the few times he's played centre midfield. One thing he definatley is not though is a left back.
-
Oh and Eastie, that day we 'won at Anfield' which you've brought up several times this morning, it got us 3 points, which was more telling than the team we beat.
You brought the Liverpool game into it on page 18 clampy, as some sort of defence to Lerner.
Yes three valuable points, but the facts are we have scored less than any other team , have the worst goal difference on the league, have won 3 home games on a year and 3 away games on a year , but you regard it as a mini- crisis ?
On top of that we have concede 12 goals in 2 games and been lucky not to lose by more- a squad of young , inexperienced lads and a few overpaid overrated under performers- but why worry eh clampy?
Bloody hell man wake up and smell the roses!
All those problems but still 3 points outside the relegation zone make it slightly less of a crisis than some people are implying.
A win over Wigan and it's barely a crisis at all.
Would we all love to be doing better and have a squad full of superstars, of course, but does having the youngest squad in the league learning together whilst currently doing enough to stay in the league not count as something?
Just playing devils advocate a little here but the reality is we're nowhere near as bad as some people seem to have us pegged right now. We need experience in the window, I think everyone can see that, and we need to get the injury list down a little but 2-3 decent signings in January (a left sided attacking midfielder/forward, a defensive midfielder with some presence and an attacking midfielder who can score and create goals) would make a huge difference.
Despite conceding 12 in 2 I don't think it's a good idea to look at replacing the defence, getting Vlaar, Baker and Dunne fit will be enough to see us through to the summer then we'll have had a good look at Clark and Baker to know if they are good enough (I think they are personally and that the problems have been around them) and Dunne will leave so we can decide how to replace him.
We really need to sign someone who can shield the defence better and we need to be a little less naive defending against the oppositions wide players.
Chelsea did us by keeping Moses and Hazard high up the pitch, this meant we either pinned back our fullbacks and formed a back 5 or we pushed Baker and Herd wide and went 3 on 3. If we chose the former their fullbacks had too much, drew out our midfield and left big gaps for Mata, if we chose the latter they murdered us one-on-one.
What we should have done was, defensively, revert to a back 4, with 1 full back moving forward to line up against their full back and the centre back on that side shuffling over. Then Holman or Weimann could tuck in front of the other full back and create 2 banks of 4, with the other of that pair dropping a little deeper in the central role to stand on top of Luiz. Given how well they played we'd probably have lsot anyway but we'd have looked much more solid and certainly wouldn't have taken a pasting.
Against Tottenham we started with a similar problem, but they didn't have the quality centrally to make us pay so we simply revert to a 5 and 'shut up shop'. They had lots of corners and half chances but weren't creating anything clear cut. It did mean we had nothing going forward though. The change is shape was then the right thing to do but wasn't done correctly. As part of a 3 Herd being drawn to the ball isn't much of a problem, Clark can step over and cover the gap, but without Baker as well Herd shouldn't have stayed central, swap him and lowton and we'd have looked much more solid. Delph and KEA just don't keep the ball well enough, not so much due to their individual passing accuracy but rather their ability to offer an outlet to the player with the ball. By reverting to those 2 we had very little structure in the central area. Holman went left and disappeared, he offered nothing going forward but also nothing in terms of defensive cover in front of a very inexperienced left back, who was facing a lightning quick right winger and a workhorse right back who is better in attack than defence.
Finally Herd (at right back) and KEA should've been tasked with handing marking Bale between them. All 3 of his goals came from him drifting inside and not being picked up, our right back and midfielders should've been aware that Bale does that constantly and planned to mark him when he did. The chimp-faced taff is nothing like as good as he's made out to be but given time and space he will score goals and we gave him lots of each for the entire 2nd half due to poor organisation. Herd was doing that tracking in the 5 and did a good job but we looked totally unprepared in how to defend against him in a flat 4.
I'd say both games centred around some very naive tactics where we really weren't prepared to play against the wa the opposition. Chelsea I can forgive more as they called our bluff, if they hadn't scored early it might've turned out very differently. Not knowing how Bale runs off the wing and how to counter it was just negligent for me.
-
If we went with a flat back four I'd go with Vlaar and baker in the centre and put Clark alongside Westwood in 4-2-3-1 formation, we need sone creativity and quality in front of them in midfield.
-
Oh and Eastie, that day we 'won at Anfield' which you've brought up several times this morning, it got us 3 points, which was more telling than the team we beat.
You brought the Liverpool game into it on page 18 clampy, as some sort of defence to Lerner.
Yes three valuable points, but the facts are we have scored less than any other team , have the worst goal difference on the league, have won 3 home games on a year and 3 away games on a year , but you regard it as a mini- crisis ?
On top of that we have concede 12 goals in 2 games and been lucky not to lose by more- a squad of young , inexperienced lads and a few overpaid overrated under performers- but why worry eh clampy?
Bloody hell man wake up and smell the roses!
All those problems but still 3 points outside the relegation zone make it slightly less of a crisis than some people are implying.
A win over Wigan and it's barely a crisis at all.
Would we all love to be doing better and have a squad full of superstars, of course, but does having the youngest squad in the league learning together whilst currently doing enough to stay in the league not count as something?
Just playing devils advocate a little here but the reality is we're nowhere near as bad as some people seem to have us pegged right now. We need experience in the window, I think everyone can see that, and we need to get the injury list down a little but 2-3 decent signings in January (a left sided attacking midfielder/forward, a defensive midfielder with some presence and an attacking midfielder who can score and create goals) would make a huge difference.
Despite conceding 12 in 2 I don't think it's a good idea to look at replacing the defence, getting Vlaar, Baker and Dunne fit will be enough to see us through to the summer then we'll have had a good look at Clark and Baker to know if they are good enough (I think they are personally and that the problems have been around them) and Dunne will leave so we can decide how to replace him.
We really need to sign someone who can shield the defence better and we need to be a little less naive defending against the oppositions wide players.
Chelsea did us by keeping Moses and Hazard high up the pitch, this meant we either pinned back our fullbacks and formed a back 5 or we pushed Baker and Herd wide and went 3 on 3. If we chose the former their fullbacks had too much, drew out our midfield and left big gaps for Mata, if we chose the latter they murdered us one-on-one.
What we should have done was, defensively, revert to a back 4, with 1 full back moving forward to line up against their full back and the centre back on that side shuffling over. Then Holman or Weimann could tuck in front of the other full back and create 2 banks of 4, with the other of that pair dropping a little deeper in the central role to stand on top of Luiz. Given how well they played we'd probably have lsot anyway but we'd have looked much more solid and certainly wouldn't have taken a pasting.
Against Tottenham we started with a similar problem, but they didn't have the quality centrally to make us pay so we simply revert to a 5 and 'shut up shop'. They had lots of corners and half chances but weren't creating anything clear cut. It did mean we had nothing going forward though. The change is shape was then the right thing to do but wasn't done correctly. As part of a 3 Herd being drawn to the ball isn't much of a problem, Clark can step over and cover the gap, but without Baker as well Herd shouldn't have stayed central, swap him and lowton and we'd have looked much more solid. Delph and KEA just don't keep the ball well enough, not so much due to their individual passing accuracy but rather their ability to offer an outlet to the player with the ball. By reverting to those 2 we had very little structure in the central area. Holman went left and disappeared, he offered nothing going forward but also nothing in terms of defensive cover in front of a very inexperienced left back, who was facing a lightning quick right winger and a workhorse right back who is better in attack than defence.
Finally Herd (at right back) and KEA should've been tasked with handing marking Bale between them. All 3 of his goals came from him drifting inside and not being picked up, our right back and midfielders should've been aware that Bale does that constantly and planned to mark him when he did. The chimp-faced taff is nothing like as good as he's made out to be but given time and space he will score goals and we gave him lots of each for the entire 2nd half due to poor organisation. Herd was doing that tracking in the 5 and did a good job but we looked totally unprepared in how to defend against him in a flat 4.
I'd say both games centred around some very naive tactics where we really weren't prepared to play against the wa the opposition. Chelsea I can forgive more as they called our bluff, if they hadn't scored early it might've turned out very differently. Not knowing how Bale runs off the wing and how to counter it was just negligent for me.
Or you could just blame Lerner?
-
yeah, maybe just throw another £30m at it then slag him off agian in the summer when we're still struggling.
-
I would be amazed if Dunne ever kicks a ball for us again, wasn't his recent op a last throw of the dice? PL has also said that Clark is no midfielder. Need Bannan back in Saturday. I would also go with Lowton at CH. Might be worth trying Bowery and Benteke together up front. We are down to the bare bones.
-
Fair play to the Villa faithful last night the last ten minutes filled me with pride something that we as a club
are sadly lacking at the moment. For me the honeymoon period is reaching an end for Lambert and he really
deserves an awful lot of criticism for his tactics over the last two games as his team set up was inept and the buck does stop
with him. For the 2nd goal we were 2 against 4 at the back which is totally unforgiveable against a counterattacking side.
Worryingly people have even stopped texting to take the piss and even had pity texts off plastics which believe me is
even worse.
-
Did Lerner not sanction the overrated players on high wages?
Did Lerner not appoint houllier and Mcleish who both flopped?
Is Lerner not the man with whom the buck stops ?
Is he not the man who should be showing leadership rather than bing absent?
Were Lerner and his sidekick not the men to talk about champions league ambition ?
Yes too bloody right he has to carry a lot of blame for the state of things , sell your best players and buy cheap replacements on low wages and what do you expect?
-
yeah, maybe just throw another £30m at it then slag him off agian in the summer when we're still struggling.
I'll slag him at £30m straight away, as it's not enough to bring the squad up to the right standard.
-
Did Lerner not sanction the overrated players on high wages?
Did Lerner not appoint houllier and Mcleish who both flopped?
Is Lerner not the man with whom the buck stops ?
Is he not the man who should be showing leadership rather than bing absent?
We're Lerner and his sidekick not the men to talk about champions league ambition ?
Yes too bloody right he has to carry a lot of blame clampy!
Not a Lerner fan by any stretch but the summer he and Faulkner are in credit for the way they went
about the business of getting rid of TSM and bringing in PL. He did also back his man to some extent.
-
Did Lerner not sanction the overrated players on high wages?
Did Lerner not appoint houllier and Mcleish who both flopped?
Is Lerner not the man with whom the buck stops ?
Is he not the man who should be showing leadership rather than bing absent?
We're Lerner and his sidekick not the men to talk about champions league ambition ?
Yes too bloody right he has to carry a lot of blame clampy!
Not a Lerner fan by any stretch but the summer he and Faulkner are in credit for the way they went
about the business of getting rid of TSM and bringing in PL. He did also back his man to some extent.
Should they get any credit for it?
They righted a huge wrong of their own making.
In fact it's too early yet to say they have got it right.
-
The Board are as much to blame as the managers and players and I hope they support PL and not leave him to carry the can. Randy was there last night and so hopefully it was a wake up call. Do it on the cheap and the outcome is inevitable.
-
I'm using my battery up scrolling down millions of quotes; I really hope we win on Saturday as the more we lose the bigger the quotathon, or so it seems.
-
Did Lerner not sanction the overrated players on high wages?
Did Lerner not appoint houllier and Mcleish who both flopped?
Is Lerner not the man with whom the buck stops ?
Is he not the man who should be showing leadership rather than bing absent?
We're Lerner and his sidekick not the men to talk about champions league ambition ?
Yes too bloody right he has to carry a lot of blame clampy!
Not a Lerner fan by any stretch but the summer he and Faulkner are in credit for the way they went
about the business of getting rid of TSM and bringing in PL. He did also back his man to some extent.
The point being that Mcleish should never have had the job to start with so I'm not going to praise him for sacking someone who should never have been there.
Lambert seems a good appointment but I am beginning to doubt him at the moment , lets see how he does on January.
-
The Board are as much to blame as the managers and players and I hope they support PL and not leave him to carry the can. Randy was there last night and so hopefully it was a wake up call. Do it on the cheap and the outcome is inevitable.
Lets hope he was at Chelsea too and will have seen for himself how short of quality we are.
-
When I saw Parker coming on, I thought to myself that he's just the sort of player we need.
Instead we have to contend with the likes of KEA and bomb scare Holman.
Holman reminds me of those blokes you see fighting for the rebels in the various conflicts in middle east. Rushing from one building to another aimlessly giving the impression of "fighting" without inflicting any damage to anyone! (looks good on CNN and Sky News)
-
Hiring TSM was possibly the craziest Villa managerial appointment ever.
3,000 Villa fans sang Lambert's name at Norwich in May and he's our manager now. We got who i presume the majority wanted and we've got to back the guy. Up until Chelsea, we were starting to look a decent side. It's gone horribly wrong in the last two games but it can be put right.
-
The Board are as much to blame as the managers and players and I hope they support PL and not leave him to carry the can. Randy was there last night and so hopefully it was a wake up call. Do it on the cheap and the outcome is inevitable.
Lets hope he was at Chelsea too and will have seen for himself how short of quality we are.
If pestria's claims about him are right, he wouldn't have seen the game, he'd have been in the bogs having a grief wank.
-
Hiring TSM was possibly the craziest Villa managerial appointment ever.
On the back of a glowing reference from Siralex.
Vomit inducing.
-
Hiring TSM was possibly the craziest Villa managerial appointment ever.
On the back of a glowing reference from Siralex.
Vomit inducing.
No possibly about it at all it was unequivocally the stupidest decision of all times.
-
Did Lerner not sanction the overrated players on high wages?
Did Lerner not appoint houllier and Mcleish who both flopped?
Is Lerner not the man with whom the buck stops ?
Is he not the man who should be showing leadership rather than bing absent?
We're Lerner and his sidekick not the men to talk about champions league ambition ?
Yes too bloody right he has to carry a lot of blame clampy!
Not a Lerner fan by any stretch but the summer he and Faulkner are in credit for the way they went
about the business of getting rid of TSM and bringing in PL. He did also back his man to some extent.
Should they get any credit for it?
They righted a huge wrong of their own making.
In fact it's too early yet to say they have got it right.
Not suggesting yet they got it right or wrong, PL is probably the best of the options we had available
to us at that time.
-
When I saw Parker coming on, I thought to myself that he's just the sort of player we need.
Instead we have to contend with the likes of KEA and bomb scare Holman.
Holman reminds me of those blokes you see fighting for the rebels in the various conflicts in middle east. Rushing from one building to another aimlessly giving the impression of "fighting" without inflicting any damage to anyone! (looks good on CNN and Sky News)
To me that fits Ireland much better.
-
I will defend my view that our potentially good players lack motivation.
Answer me this question if you think they are properly motivated.
If Lambert can trot out the stock cliche that we must pick ourselves up and go again AFTER humiliating thrashings, when the damage is done, why can't he, or one of his assistant or the team captain get that same message of pick yourselves up and go again on to the field of play when they go a goal down?
I have been to most of the league and cup games this season, including all the home games and the constantly recurring theme is caving in.
My opinion, based on may years of watching many Villa games is that the capitulation arises through lack of leadership and lack of experience. The last manager packed the sides with green, untested players because he was on a mission to save money. Those young players should have been eased into the side alongside more confident experienced players but for financial reasons they were not and they have suffered for it, the most notable case being Marc Albrighton.
If players are nervous and uncertain and prone to lose concentration the way it is corrected is to motivate them. I do NOT mean wind them up to go and kick lumps out of the opposition, I mean reassure and direct and encourage them. That is motivation not shouting and bawling and kicking the kit bag.
Paul Lambert is not young and inexperienced, he has performed to the very highest level. It is his job, a job he is very well paid to do, to correct Fabian Delph flying into tackles like a human rotovator or Karim El Ahmadi ball watching or Barry Bannan running flat out from side to side of the pitch instead of up and down it and Stephen Ireland to stop playing the game as though he is a ballet dancer at the barre in front of a mirror.
My definition of that function is motivation. To make the player do the right things at the right time DURING THE GAME.
A football manager has three primary functions. To get the players. To coach the players. To direct the players how and where they will play in a game. That third function I describe as motivation. That is the way I see it. I respect your views, please respect mine.
Brian you write eloquently and I'm always glad to hear your thoughts but I don't agree with it being down to motivation. Motivation gave us our Liverpool performance where we flung ourselves at everything and counter-attacked our way to an away win but lack of quality has shone through in so many games this season. And it's not just these last two games.
I thought we were distinctly average against Stoke (I know others disagree), I thought we were appalling against Reading, QPR. Home to Norwich I wanted to cry out of disbelief at how poor we were.
I think getting your players motivated can lift you at times, sort of like a trump card, a cup tie, a backs-to-the-wall display but it won't get you performing consistently and matching the likes of Chelsea, Tottenham and Man Utd.
I must also point out that despite yesterday being one of the very worst performances I've seen by any side, I still whole-heartedly back Lambert. I just trust him, trust his judgement and I think and hope we'll see a reaction in the shape of a quality midfielder in January.
-
Hiring TSM was possibly the craziest Villa managerial appointment ever.
On the back of a glowing reference from Siralex.
Vomit inducing.
No possibly about it at all it was unequivocally the stupidest decision of all times.
I can't argue with that.
-
It's definitely up there with Hitler invading Russia, having the new Wembley in Wembley, and making a seventh series of Dexter.
-
When I saw Parker coming on, I thought to myself that he's just the sort of player we need.
Instead we have to contend with the likes of KEA and bomb scare Holman.
Holman reminds me of those blokes you see fighting for the rebels in the various conflicts in middle east. Rushing from one building to another aimlessly giving the impression of "fighting" without inflicting any damage to anyone! (looks good on CNN and Sky News)
To me that fits Ireland much better.
To me, Ireland is often maligned unfairly and I know he polarises opinion on here. I couldn't understand why he didn't start last night given the lack of quality in the side. I would have thought he was ideal to play in behind Benteke rather than Holman. He does have an eye for a pass and makes things happen - expectations in the crowd are raised when he's on the ball. And by all accounts, he's the best trainer at the club.
He needs a run of games, instead of being in and out all the time. I said at the start of the season, with the lack of experience and quality in the squad, that he had to get Ireland and N'Zogbia into defined roled in the side as they are our big players - they've done it elseqhere. A combination of bad luck, injuries and Lamber's pragmatic approach has stopped this happening.
-
I'm using my battery up scrolling down millions of quotes; I really hope we win on Saturday as the more we lose the bigger the quotathon, or so it seems.
I like the ones that start off with 1 liners and replies are also short. I am into geometry and can make lots of triangles, squares, rectangles , prisms and pyramids.
Sometimes you can make parallelograms and trapezoids by stretching the screen...jolly.... hours of fun.
-
It's definitely up there with Hitler invading Russia, having the new Wembley in Wembley, and making a seventh series of Dexter.
You forgot about Gail platt marrying Richard hillman!
-
It's definitely up there with Hitler invading Russia, having the new Wembley in Wembley, and making a seventh series of Dexter.
Giving Jim'll Saville a kids program.
-
It's definitely up there with Hitler invading Russia, having the new Wembley in Wembley, and making a seventh series of Dexter.
And the 4th (up to now) modification of the great Moor Street Interchange. May be you have not been through it but than again most of us who use it every day have not either.
-
Oh and Eastie, that day we 'won at Anfield' which you've brought up several times this morning, it got us 3 points, which was more telling than the team we beat.
You brought the Liverpool game into it on page 18 clampy, as some sort of defence to Lerner.
Yes three valuable points, but the facts are we have scored less than any other team , have the worst goal difference on the league, have won 3 home games on a year and 3 away games on a year , but you regard it as a mini- crisis ?
On top of that we have concede 12 goals in 2 games and been lucky not to lose by more- a squad of young , inexperienced lads and a few overpaid overrated under performers- but why worry eh clampy?
Bloody hell man wake up and smell the roses!
All those problems but still 3 points outside the relegation zone make it slightly less of a crisis than some people are implying.
A win over Wigan and it's barely a crisis at all.
Would we all love to be doing better and have a squad full of superstars, of course, but does having the youngest squad in the league learning together whilst currently doing enough to stay in the league not count as something?
Just playing devils advocate a little here but the reality is we're nowhere near as bad as some people seem to have us pegged right now. We need experience in the window, I think everyone can see that, and we need to get the injury list down a little but 2-3 decent signings in January (a left sided attacking midfielder/forward, a defensive midfielder with some presence and an attacking midfielder who can score and create goals) would make a huge difference.
Despite conceding 12 in 2 I don't think it's a good idea to look at replacing the defence, getting Vlaar, Baker and Dunne fit will be enough to see us through to the summer then we'll have had a good look at Clark and Baker to know if they are good enough (I think they are personally and that the problems have been around them) and Dunne will leave so we can decide how to replace him.
We really need to sign someone who can shield the defence better and we need to be a little less naive defending against the oppositions wide players.
Chelsea did us by keeping Moses and Hazard high up the pitch, this meant we either pinned back our fullbacks and formed a back 5 or we pushed Baker and Herd wide and went 3 on 3. If we chose the former their fullbacks had too much, drew out our midfield and left big gaps for Mata, if we chose the latter they murdered us one-on-one.
What we should have done was, defensively, revert to a back 4, with 1 full back moving forward to line up against their full back and the centre back on that side shuffling over. Then Holman or Weimann could tuck in front of the other full back and create 2 banks of 4, with the other of that pair dropping a little deeper in the central role to stand on top of Luiz. Given how well they played we'd probably have lsot anyway but we'd have looked much more solid and certainly wouldn't have taken a pasting.
Against Tottenham we started with a similar problem, but they didn't have the quality centrally to make us pay so we simply revert to a 5 and 'shut up shop'. They had lots of corners and half chances but weren't creating anything clear cut. It did mean we had nothing going forward though. The change is shape was then the right thing to do but wasn't done correctly. As part of a 3 Herd being drawn to the ball isn't much of a problem, Clark can step over and cover the gap, but without Baker as well Herd shouldn't have stayed central, swap him and lowton and we'd have looked much more solid. Delph and KEA just don't keep the ball well enough, not so much due to their individual passing accuracy but rather their ability to offer an outlet to the player with the ball. By reverting to those 2 we had very little structure in the central area. Holman went left and disappeared, he offered nothing going forward but also nothing in terms of defensive cover in front of a very inexperienced left back, who was facing a lightning quick right winger and a workhorse right back who is better in attack than defence.
Finally Herd (at right back) and KEA should've been tasked with handing marking Bale between them. All 3 of his goals came from him drifting inside and not being picked up, our right back and midfielders should've been aware that Bale does that constantly and planned to mark him when he did. The chimp-faced taff is nothing like as good as he's made out to be but given time and space he will score goals and we gave him lots of each for the entire 2nd half due to poor organisation. Herd was doing that tracking in the 5 and did a good job but we looked totally unprepared in how to defend against him in a flat 4.
I'd say both games centred around some very naive tactics where we really weren't prepared to play against the wa the opposition. Chelsea I can forgive more as they called our bluff, if they hadn't scored early it might've turned out very differently. Not knowing how Bale runs off the wing and how to counter it was just negligent for me.
Interesting tactical analysis, good post
-
Talking about Lambert and motivation, I saw a bit of the interview with Ruddy on Football Focus the other day. He was asked about any difference between Lambert's style and Houghtons (sp?). He replied that Lambert tended to leave a lot of the coaching to the others (Culverhouse etc) and he did the motivation aspect. When I heard him say that I thought about having heard that Lambert had modelled himself on MON.
-
I am a bit drained on the topic of motivation. Perhaps I should not have raised it. It seems to have come down to how you interpret what "motivation" means. To those who see things differently from me to motivate a player is to charge him up to go out and play at or above his full ability. To me it means forming a bond with a player so that he can be directed to play the way you want him to and in so doing correct the faults in his game which are causing the team problems. To me it is not about running through brick walls. It is about running where there are no brick walls. It is a question of definition.
-
This reminds me very much of the mid sixties, even worse perhaps. The club then had five good or very good players in Withers,Sleewenhoek,Burrows Woosnam and Hateley. The others just made up the numbers. They were not good enough and we were relegated.
Strange that you should make this analogy. I was thinking exactly this yesterday.
-
I am a bit drained on the topic of motivation. Perhaps I should not have raised it. It seems to have come down to how you interpret what "motivation" means. To those who see things differently from me to motivate a player is to charge him up to go out and play at or above his full ability. To me it means forming a bond with a player so that he can be directed to play the way you want him to and in so doing correct the faults in his game which are causing the team problems. To me it is not about running through brick walls. It is about running where there are no brick walls. It is a question of definition.
Motivation differs from player to player. Some need to be wound up, some need to be directed to play the way the manager wants him to play and the most difficult, giving a player confidence to play to the limit of his ability. It is the latter that PL has struggled with, particularly the last two games. It is not surprising though with so many young players.
To motivation you need to add coaching, to prevent ball watching, getting dragged out of position, central defenders being too far apart etc.
-
A team consists of 11 individuals and when you have at least four who can't or even more worryingly won't be arsed to do what is needed is a recipe for disaster.When those four play in your midfield your defence will have its work cut out.
Play against good or better teams and we will lose with that formula
-
The 1960s comparison is also interesting because John Sleeuwenhoek and Harry Burrows were part of a core of youngsters with Mike Tindall, Alan Deakin and one or two others christened by the press as "Mercer's Minnows" a very naff attempt to surf on the fame of the Busby Babes, who were to be the new dawn of the club in the big time. Plus ca change and all that.
-
I'm with Bert on the quoting thing, onje_villa you don't have to quote the entire bloody thing just to say you agree.