Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on November 16, 2012, 08:15:28 PM
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Available Saturday evening.
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Looking at the two teams, you do gulp! Stevens against silva could be interesting! Toure and Barry are a powerful combo too. Got to hope Benteke can isolate nastasic and maicon lets in gabby. Not particularly optimistic I have to say
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Well the linesman was fucking criminal. However let's not overlook the fact that we were largely hammered and it could have been more. We were really poor and you simply can't give the ball back to good sides. We have to start retaining possession and the next 4 games we need 9 points.
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Poo
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As posted on the match thread, our team cost £26.45m (£38.95 including subs) and theirs cost £175.5m (£275.2m including subs).
If I'd spent that much money I'd expect to annihilate the other team. They even had players that cost more than or just shy of how much our first eleven cost.
What does the t-shirt say - Kill Mod£rn Football?
I fancy our chances against Arsenal next week if we keep with this team and I also expect us to stay up.
I just hope the confidence is not dented as much as it could be.
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The linesman made a complete mockery of the game. Nothing should be read into what happened after the first penalty.
Can't believe some of the players shook the linesman's hand.
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Bottom three, minus 12 goal difference. Enough said.
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Appalling decisions apart, the bottom line is that our first 11 is just terrible and not good enough for this level. Either we spend big in January in one last desperate attempt to stay up, or its looking very grim for us. Can't say I'd be surprised though, as its been on the cards for some time now.
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We created a couple of chances in the first half and were unlucky not to score from Benteke's header but that's pretty much the last time I can remember us being in their box. We conceded a terrible goal just before half time which more or less decided it. The two penalty decisions (one terrible, the other unspeakable) put the seal on it and it was help yourself after that.
No-one was expecting three points, very few were expecting one so points-wise it's as you were (for us at least) but the goal difference and more importantly the morale and confidence will have taken a battering.
Who are the kids going to look to in the dressing room for inspiration, authority, fight and morale? I just don't know at this point, which is very worrying indeed.
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We never expected to get anything and we didn't. Just have to hope they can be lifted to have a good go at Arsenal. Very tough times for AVFC and I pray the board back the manager in January. We are short of quality and experience and it shows.
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The linesman made a complete mockery of the game. Nothing should be read into what happened after the first penalty.
Can't believe some of the players shook the linesman's hand.
If our management team ignores what happened afterwards we will definitely go down. It was an appalling and criminal decision, but that made it 2-0. You don't give up at 2-0.
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Very annoyed the players shook his hand. Fair play to Weimann for going back over. I'm furious. Neither was a penalty. We were doing fine at 1 - 0, we had any chance of getting anything from the game taken away from us.
Lino should be suspended.
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We done goofed.
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Anyone who expected us to get anything from this game should be dragged to the Jimmy Savile suite at Broadmoor immediately. Nothing surprising about the result at all. Or the performance, sadly. We're not from the same planet as the likes of man City, let alone the same league, but again, I ask, where are the wins we need to stay up going to come from?
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Cheers linesman. We may well have lost anyway but I reckon it's a decent bet it wouldn't have been such a hammering.
We have to start retaining possession better.
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We created a couple of chances in the first half and were unlucky not to score from Benteke's header but that's pretty much the last time I can remember us being in their box. We conceded a terrible goal just before half time which more or less decided it. The two penalty decisions (one terrible, the other unspeakable) put the seal on it and it was help yourself after that.
No-one was expecting three points, very few were expecting one so points-wise it's as you were (for us at least) but the goal difference and more importantly the morale and confidence will have taken a battering.
Who are the kids going to look to in the dressing room for inspiration, authority, fight and morale? I just don't know at this point, which is very worrying indeed.
Difficult to argue with that.
The linesman should be ashamed of that performance.
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i've got to contend with two plastic redscouse, a plastic redmanc and my gaffer who's a strripey on monday. Fuck this shit, i'm ringing in sick!
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The linesman made a complete mockery of the game. Nothing should be read into what happened after the first penalty.
Can't believe some of the players shook the linesman's hand.
If our management team ignores what happened afterwards we will definitely go down. It was an appalling and criminal decision, but that made it 2-0. You don't give up at 2-0.
I don't think we did give up at 2-0. That happened at 3-0.
Let's hope we can pick ourselves up and get something out of next week.
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I'd add that we need to beat at least of 2 of QPR, Reading and Stoke or it's going to look very ominous going into the Liverpool/Chelsea/Spurs run around xmas...
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What happened? Where did it all go wrong?
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Goal 1 - We should have had a foul for the high foot
Goal 2 - Never a penalty as long as I have a whole in my arse.
Goal 3 - See goal 2
Goal 4 - Deflection, but Guzan could have done better
Goal 5 - We'd given up
Gabby and Wiemann were as much use as a cock at a lesbian convention and neither contributed anything, you can add Ireland as well.
The 2nd and 3rd goals destroyed us, it's no wonder the players gave up after that. I fucking hate Man City, not only can the buy the best players, today they clearly bought the officials too. Wankers.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
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Good defending first-half. Two unlucky penalties,a deflected own-goal, and when heads down an easy 5th. Going to be a long season. We've get relegation type goal difference.Once we've played Arsenal we've got some very very important games.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
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It's very important we get experienced quality into the club in January. However we absolutely have to get 9 points in our next four games.
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
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The jig was up when we lost 4-1 at Southampton.
Our Midfield squad is hopelessly sub-standard.
Bannan is awful, El Ahmadi is Wigan-esque, Westwood needs time that we haven't got, Ireland is a complete under achiever and Holman is the proverbial headless chicken.
We're deeply in the shit and I can't see how we're going to get out of it.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
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a minor blip in our 2yr plan to premier league domination.
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Winning a couple of games on the bounce would make all the difference for us The problem is, I can't see that happening
Losing today is no big shock and is not why we are where we are. That's due to losing to or failing to beat teams who are nowhere near as good as Man City.
If we don't strengthen significantly in Janiary then the result of these young players in a relegation battle will quite possibly be us going down.
Pinning our hopes on kids alone is never going to be enough. This squad is nothing like strong enough, it is not a top flight squad. That is not the fault of Lambert or the players - it is this weak because it has been eroded over time in a battle to sort the wage bill by an absentee owner who got bored very quickly and whose stewardship of the club the last few years has been woeful.
It's easy to say that this fixture or that is really tough and what do you expect etc etc but if you looked at the PL squads on paper and marked out those we "should" beat, there aren't many if them. That's what happens when you start relying on - not blooding, actually relying on - players who were playing in the lower leagues till very recently.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
You've lifted my spirits up England Dan.
I'd really love to see you tonight.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
This is worth repeating ...
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It's very important we get experienced quality into the club in January. However we absolutely have to get 9 points in our next four games.
6 from the next 4 will see us on 15, I would say from our next 7 we need 10 to be ok by the end of the season. And I think we will get them. Get to half way with 19, and then buy in Jan.
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Winning a couple of games on the bounce would make all the difference for us The problem is, I can't see that happening
Losing today is no big shock and is not why we are where we are. That's due to losing to or failing to beat teams who are nowhere near as good as Man City.
If we don't strengthen significantly in Janiary then the result of these young players in a relegation battle will quite possibly be us going down.
Pinning our hopes on kids alone is never going to be enough. This squad is nothing like strong enough, it is not a top flight squad. That is not the fault of Lambert or the players - it is this weak because it has been eroded over time in a battle to sort the wage bill by an absentee owner who got bored very quickly and whose stewardship of the club the last few years has been woeful.
It's easy to say that this fixture or that is really tough and what do you expect etc etc but if you looked at the PL squads on paper and marked out those we "should" beat, there aren't many if them. That's what happens when you start relying on - not blooding, actually relying on - players who were playing in the lower leagues till very recently.
Sense again from the Walnutted one.
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Appalling decisions apart, the bottom line is that our first 11 is just terrible and not good enough for this level. Either we spend big in January in one last desperate attempt to stay up, or its looking very grim for us. Can't say I'd be surprised though, as its been on the cards for some time now.
Rubbish, as usual all hyperbole for the moment and no thought. Goodnight
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
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Didn't expect to win - Citeh are unbeaten this season and are now light years ahead of us in terms of squad quality - but I think decisions for their first three were basic incompetence fom the officials. The first looked like a goal kick not a corner, and both penalties were just joke decisions by an incompetent twat. At 1-0 we were poor but still creating chances and in all likelihood would have lost anyway. At 3-0 we were dead, buried and demoralised. But as someone said on the match thread, if we go down it won't be because of results against Citeh or Manu, or maybe Arsenal next week - it will because we've already lost to two of the teams who came up last season and failed to beat the likes of Norwich at home.
We are a poor, inexperienced squad, and it's all very well people saying we need experienced an CB, and a good FB, and a dominating experienced MF - I've been saying the same myself. But even if Lerner makes funds available the reality is what decent quality, experienced player is going to come to us if we're in the bottom three in January? We need to start getting points on the board quickly or we are well and truly fucked.
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I wonder if Lerner still thinks it was wise to sell our best players and replace them with cheap lower league guff?
The man is a genius.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
Assuming nobody else who is currently mid table wins a game you mean? And when was the last time we won two games in a row anyway? Considering it's Arsenal up next, I wouldn't be expecting those 6 points any time soon.
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Winning a couple of games on the bounce would make all the difference for us The problem is, I can't see that happening
Losing today is no big shock and is not why we are where we are. That's due to losing to or failing to beat teams who are nowhere near as good as Man City.
If we don't strengthen significantly in Janiary then the result of these young players in a relegation battle will quite possibly be us going down.
Pinning our hopes on kids alone is never going to be enough. This squad is nothing like strong enough, it is not a top flight squad. That is not the fault of Lambert or the players - it is this weak because it has been eroded over time in a battle to sort the wage bill by an absentee owner who got bored very quickly and whose stewardship of the club the last few years has been woeful.
It's easy to say that this fixture or that is really tough and what do you expect etc etc but if you looked at the PL squads on paper and marked out those we "should" beat, there aren't many if them. That's what happens when you start relying on - not blooding, actually relying on - players who were playing in the lower leagues till very recently.
Sense again from the Walnutted one.
Unless of course you are Swansea or Norwich.
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Next 4 games are massive. Losing back to back games against the Manchester clubs won't determine where we finish. But these next 4 probably will, especially the last three.
H) Arsenal
H) Reading
A) QPR
H) Stoke
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Crucified!! Where is the Calvary? or is it Cavalry? What difference a week makes?
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
Yes.
I'm really enjoying being on a downer about the club i've supported for 38 years, it fair makes my day.
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I wonder if Lerner still thinks it was wise to sell our best players and replace them with cheap lower league guff?
The man is a genius.
I doubt he'll even know what the score was until somebody mentions it to him next week.
He's ceased giving a solitary shit anyway.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Me as well.
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I think we have some potentially very good players, Lowton, Westwood and Benteke come to mind. However we really need some results quickly, we don't want to get cast adrift with the likes of QPR.
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
Yes.
I'm really enjoying being on a downer about the club i've supported for 38 years, it fair makes my day.
Yep, I love seeing the team under the dreaded dotted line and getting battered, it's better than winning the lottery. Let's all just witter on about "ups and downs" and "Lambert moving us in the right direction" while all the time we sleep walk towards relegation.
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At times i hate football.
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What I cant get my head around is why anyone expected anything else when you have a owner who will sell anyone he can get a profit on and replace them with cheap, sub-standard dross from the lower leagues. And make no mistake, any gems we do pick up (Benteke for instance) will go the same way.
The problems at our club will not be solved until that moron of an owner is gone and I dont see that happening anytime soon.
He's the problem but the biggest problen is he doesn 't know it.
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Stuck in traffic on a 'shameless' type estate opposite the ground - £40 for me, £34 for my dad and £24 for my son to get battered by the ref .
Fuck off modern football
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Gabby was our worst player yet seems immune to criticism.
I don't remember Guzan making any significant save before their 1st, could argue foot up, but the game really changed on 2 awful decisions.The 1st was a push on Weimann anyway, and no Citeh player appealed for it, the 2nd, what/how could he have stopped that happening?
Would the 4th and 5th have happened if it wasn't for the previous 3?
On the positives for me for 60/70 minutes the defence was relatively good, the midfield tried to keep the ball, and play football.We looked a good team in the 1st half , played nice football, and until their goal looked as if we could hold on for a point.But they are a good team, and at the moment we don't judge ourselves against these teams.
Onwards and upwards.
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
Yes.
I'm really enjoying being on a downer about the club i've supported for 38 years, it fair makes my day.
I knew you were a goth.
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What I cant get my head around is why anyone expected anything else when you have a owner who will sell anyone he can get a profit on and replace them with cheap, sub-standard dross from the lower leagues. And make no mistake, any gems we do pick up (Benteke for instance) will go the same way.
The problems at our club will not be solved until that moron of an owner is gone and I dont see that happening anytime soon.
He's the problem but the biggest problem is he doesn 't know it.
Agree 100%
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
Yes.
I'm really enjoying being on a downer about the club i've supported for 38 years, it fair makes my day.
Yep, I love seeing the team under the dreaded dotted line and getting battered, it's better than winning the lottery. Let's all just witter on about "ups and downs" and "Lambert moving us in the right direction" while all the time we sleep walk towards relegation.
And don't forget, "young and hungry players".
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
Yes.
I'm really enjoying being on a downer about the club i've supported for 38 years, it fair makes my day.
I knew you were a goth.
I'm painting my bedroom black as we speak.
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Next 4 games are massive. Losing back to back games against the Manchester clubs won't determine where we finish. But these next 4 probably will, especially the last three.
H) Arsenal
H) Reading
A) QPR
H) Stoke
We'll get some points from them.
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
Yes.
I'm really enjoying being on a downer about the club i've supported for 38 years, it fair makes my day.
Yep, I love seeing the team under the dreaded dotted line and getting battered, it's better than winning the lottery. Let's all just witter on about "ups and downs" and "Lambert moving us in the right direction" while all the time we sleep walk towards relegation.
And don't forget, "young and hungry players".
And don't forget
'Buy low, sell high is the way to get us into the Champions League.'
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Gabby was our worst player yet seems immune to criticism.
I don't remember Guzan making any significant save before their 1st, could argue foot up, but the game really changed on 2 awful decisions.The 1st was a push on Weimann anyway, and no Citeh player appealed for it, the 2nd, what/how could he have stopped that happening?
Would the 4th and 5th have happened if it wasn't for the previous 3?
On the positives for me for 60/70 minutes the defence was relatively good, the midfield tried to keep the ball, and play football.We looked a good team in the 1st half , played nice football, and until their goal looked as if we could hold on for a point.But they are a good team, and at the moment we don't judge ourselves against these teams.
Onwards and upwards.
I'm not sure we looked a good side in first half. We barely kicked the ball and when we did we hoofed it away.
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From the Beeb:
1706:
GET INVOLVED
Soji Adeyanju on Twitter: "No drawn game today so far. Motd a must watch tonight. Just love the PL."
Me too Soji, me too.
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The worrying thing (apart from us eing shit) is that as well as being bottom three, Reading have a game in hand on us, and Sunderland have two games in hand. They both have a much bettr goal difference as well.
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And don't forget
'Buy low, sell high is the way to get us into the Champions League.'
I'm pretty certain that nobody has ever said that. Ever.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
Posts like this read like someone trying to convince themselves of something that deep down they really don't believe.
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The first penalty was a weird decision. The linesman saw something that didn't happen. If the second one happened at the other end i'd be yelling for a penalty. That one could go either way. The throwing in of the towel after that was shocking.
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And don't forget
'Buy low, sell high is the way to get us into the Champions League.'
I'm pretty certain that nobody has ever said that. Ever.
I said it's the way to move us up like Spurs did. However it does require speculating to accumulate as well.
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Played some nice football at times PaulW.
Good cross and header from Benteke, a better touch from Gabby and hes through on goal.I didn't expect much more tbh.I expected them to have most of the ball, but until the 1st goal, i thought we coped ok.
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I'm going to have a kebab tonight to cheer myself up. Fuck it, I might have two. I think it's a two-kebab result today.
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I'm going to have a kebab tonight to cheer myself up. Fuck it, I might have two. I think it's a two-kebab result today.
Half lamb, half chicken.
There's two of your five a day, so guilt can fuck right off.
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I'm hoping Hughes doesn't get sacked before we play them..
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im scared
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I know there are many pessimists on here so just think of all that money that SHOULD be available in January. I'm not suggesting anything except a lot of villa fans know Randy sold the Browns for a lot of money and it would be pretty hard for Randy to justify not spending if many believe we are as bad as they say.
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The reality of today is we are going to get very very little away from Villa Park this season, Lambert has to look at being tactically aware away from home, the same team against Man U will not work at Man City, there full backs had so much room it was untrue and that was before the linesman decided to be a twat, Gabby and Andy are useful in that formation at home,as much use a s a chocolate fire guard away from home, but we really need to press the ball more away from home and definately push up from defending our own 18 yard line.
Concern for January is what type of player Lambo buys, because they have to hit the ground running and I don't think he looks at those sort of players, he looks at promise we need survivors.
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What I cant get my head around is why anyone expected anything else when you have a owner who will sell anyone he can get a profit on and replace them with cheap, sub-standard dross from the lower leagues. And make no mistake, any gems we do pick up (Benteke for instance) will go the same way.
The problems at our club will not be solved until that moron of an owner is gone and I dont see that happening anytime soon.
He's the problem but the biggest problen is he doesn 't know it.
On what basis are you concluding he is a moron? If say he had another billion in his back pocket and put half of that into the club would he then be less of a moron? I assume the Man City owners are the least moronic in football at present, probably closely followed by Abramovic being almost totally non moronic. In your world it would seem the level to which an individual is judged a moron is in direct inverse proportion to ones bank balance.
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We are deep in doo-doo which is so unfair considering we are improved on last year. We could end up with nothing from our tough run despite playing so well against United.
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im scared
2 kebabs seems to be the answer. Can't argue
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I know there are many pessimists on here so just think of all that money that SHOULD be available in January. I'm not suggesting anything except a lot of villa fans know Randy sold the Browns for a lot of money and it would be pretty hard for Randy to justify not spending if many believe we are as bad as they say.
Faulkner said that the Browns sale would have no bearing on Aston Villa what so ever.
He might be a buffoon, but he's never come across as a liar.
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This really isn't funny is it ? What choice do we have but to get behind the team and hope we can turn it around. The easy thing is to have a go at Lerner etc. and it does worry me that his record with us seams similar to his NFL team who he has ditched.Ultimately we have to keep behind Lambert and not desert the team when they need us . The difference is these players do care and will be as gutted as us .
Now is the time to show real support.
As an aside the Premier league has become a joke.
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What I cant get my head around is why anyone expected anything else when you have a owner who will sell anyone he can get a profit on and replace them with cheap, sub-standard dross from the lower leagues. And make no mistake, any gems we do pick up (Benteke for instance) will go the same way.
The problems at our club will not be solved until that moron of an owner is gone and I dont see that happening anytime soon.
He's the problem but the biggest problen is he doesn 't know it.
On what basis are you concluding he is a moron? If say he had another billion in his back pocket and put half of that into the club would he then be less of a moron? I assume the Man City owners are the least moronic in football at present, probably closely followed by Abramovic being almost totally non moronic. In your world it would seem the level to which an individual is judged a moron is in direct inverse proportion to ones bank balance.
He's a moron because he clearly has no idea what he's doing.
Alex McLeish?
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@andiweimann
Thanks for killing the game linesman !!! #joke #disgrace of a decision !!
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And don't forget
'Buy low, sell high is the way to get us into the Champions League.'
I'm pretty certain that nobody has ever said that. Ever.
It was put forward as a template to advance as a club and to ultimately get us into the position of a Champions League.
Everton and Spurs were cited as examples. Everton. And Spurs. On previous. Threads.
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Poor display, little to be positive about this week after last weeks promising display - the next four games are huge and we need to get points on the board .
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That could have been worse!
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@andiweimann
Thanks for killing the game linesman !!! #joke #disgrace of a decision !!
lol the FA will probably fine him for that. Pathetic.
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@andiweimann
Thanks for killing the game linesman !!! #joke #disgrace of a decision !!
He'll be in trouble for that.
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What I cant get my head around is why anyone expected anything else when you have a owner who will sell anyone he can get a profit on and replace them with cheap, sub-standard dross from the lower leagues. And make no mistake, any gems we do pick up (Benteke for instance) will go the same way.
The problems at our club will not be solved until that moron of an owner is gone and I dont see that happening anytime soon.
He's the problem but the biggest problen is he doesn 't know it.
On what basis are you concluding he is a moron? If say he had another billion in his back pocket and put half of that into the club would he then be less of a moron? I assume the Man City owners are the least moronic in football at present, probably closely followed by Abramovic being almost totally non moronic. In your world it would seem the level to which an individual is judged a moron is in direct inverse proportion to ones bank balance.
I'd hate to think you were equating being minted with having common sense.
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At the end of the day these results and where we are hurt. Some fans look at the positive and others fear the worst. Personally modern football is killing my love of the sport but I will always love and support Villa. I just worry that we are heading the same way as Leeds and Sheffield Wed. Ultimately the owner and his team are to blame where we are with appalling decisions and a lack of footballing nous.
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im scared
2 kebabs seems to be the answer. Can't argue
8 tins of coors light and a beef curry with fried rice will be my answer
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@andiweimann
Thanks for killing the game linesman !!! #joke #disgrace of a decision !!
lol the FA will probably fine him for that. Pathetic.
Yup. They seem to think pointing out the obvious inadequacies of match officials is bringing the game in to more 'disrepute' than the the decisions themselves. That bloody linesman needs to be fined for bringing the game in to disrepute.
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ultimately none of it really matters because its only football and i would hope none of us are ever going to stop supporting the club irrespective of this week's result or what division we are playing in. If it's Barnsley away this time next year so be it.
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I believe Faulkner has already stated that Lerner selling The Browns would have no bearing on what would be invested in the Villa.
I think the big worry is that we will struggle to attract the quality of player we all agree is desperately needed even if serious funds are made available. Top players don't want to go to bottom teams.
If anyone does come in, I suspect it will be of similar quality to the bulk of the signings made in the summer.
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At the end of the day these results and where we are hurt. Some fans look at the positive and others fear the worst. Personally modern football is killing my love of the sport but I will always love and support Villa. I just worry that we are heading the same way as Leeds and Sheffield Wed. Ultimately the owner and his team are to blame where we are with appalling decisions and a lack of footballing nous.
We've had the hoary old 'Look at Newcastle how they bounced back after relegation' chestnut thrown in on here a few times.
Less so the examples of Leeds, Forest and Sheff Wed.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
You've lifted my spirits up England Dan.
I'd really love to see you tonight.
Is that an offer? :-)
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Just got back - left after their 5th and expected it to be at least six or seven.
Thought we were ok first half, but once they took the lead there was only going to be one outcome. Yes, the first penalty was shocking, but after going behind it was always going to be two or three.
Get next week out of the way and then we've got to start chalking up victories. I still believe, but we need points and confidence.
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ultimately none of it really matters because its only football and i would hope none of us are ever going to stop supporting the club irrespective of this week's result or what division we are playing in. If it's Barnsley away this time next year so be it.
Surely that goes without saying.
It's not like changing supermarkets, this is the team you support through thick and thin and you stick with them no matter what.
The worry is that the new younger generation of supporters are unlikely to think that way, kids these days want to be associated with winners.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
You've lifted my spirits up England Dan.
I'd really love to see you tonight.
Is that an offer? :-)
Well i'm not talking about moving in.
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At the end of the day these results and where we are hurt. Some fans look at the positive and others fear the worst. Personally modern football is killing my love of the sport but I will always love and support Villa. I just worry that we are heading the same way as Leeds and Sheffield Wed. Ultimately the owner and his team are to blame where we are with appalling decisions and a lack of footballing nous.
Is has felt like we are becoming the new Leeds/Sheff Wednesday since the end of the 2009/2010 season. Every decision until the appointment of Lambert seemed to be taking us down another notch on the prestige table.
As Dave W pointed out recently, it is an awful pity that we have so little silverware to show for our unbroken 25 year stint as a top flight side. If we do end up dropping out for a few seasons we won't have a particularly glorious recent history to help motivate us but rather a feeling of 'what might have been'.
Anyway, hopefully it won't come to that and Lambert is the start of the fightback. UTV.
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@andiweimann
Thanks for killing the game linesman !!! #joke #disgrace of a decision !!
He'll be in trouble for that.
Perhaps the linesman can explain his decision then. There has to be no doubt in mind when he calls for something like that, but replays showed, very very clearly, that Weimann made no contact. Plus he was about 30-40 yards away, so how can he be sure? A terrible decision, and he couldn't wait to flag for another. The man is inept at his job.
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What happened? Where did it all go wrong?
That makes me quite sad. Why didn't our takeover work out the way we expected? Where's that footballing dynasty we thought we were in the process of building??
At least we always have been a big club and had a good history. Watching Chelsea and Man City becoming footballing superpowers as we flirt with relegation year in year out is quite bloody painful.
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I'm gutted but we have too dust ourselves down and get ready for next week's game I still think we will be ok come the end of the season I have faith in PL.
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im scared
2 kebabs seems to be the answer. Can't argue
8 tins of coors light and a beef curry with fried rice will be my answer
[/quote
Couldn't you get something more alcoholic after that result?!!
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I believe Faulkner has already stated that Lerner selling The Browns would have no bearing on what would be invested in the Villa.
I think the big worry is that we will struggle to attract the quality of player we all agree is desperately needed even if serious funds are made available. Top players don't want to go to bottom teams.
If anyone does come in, I suspect it will be of similar quality to the bulk of the signings made in the summer.
Faulkner has lost the plot if he said that. I don't understand how an owner can justify not investing in the team he owns and wants to make a success of after selling his other team for nearly $1 billion. That's when I would really start to wonder wtf is going on.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
You've lifted my spirits up England Dan.
I'd really love to see you tonight.
Is that an offer? :-)
Well i'm not talking about moving in.
Get a room
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@andiweimann
Thanks for killing the game linesman !!! #joke #disgrace of a decision !!
He'll be in trouble for that.
Perhaps the linesman can explain his decision then. There has to be no doubt in mind when he calls for something like that, but replays showed, very very clearly, that Weimann made no contact. Plus he was about 30-40 yards away, so how can he be sure? A terrible decision, and he couldn't wait to flag for another. The man is inept at his job.
Completely agree, but the FA tend to punish for this sort of thing.
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ultimately none of it really matters because its only football and i would hope none of us are ever going to stop supporting the club irrespective of this week's result or what division we are playing in. If it's Barnsley away this time next year so be it.
Odd way of looking at things; it's only football, but we're all Villa until we die. Villa need to be in the Prem next season, the new deal with Sky is worth millions to us, and if we're relegated we stand the chance of becoming cast adrift with a long journey back, if it happens at all. Staying up this season is crucial to the future of this club and it's long term standing in the English game.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
Posts like this read like someone trying to convince themselves of something that deep down they really don't believe.
Not at all. In the games I've seen this season I've already seen more promise than all of last season. I don't think we will go down.
We have a very good manager and play some very good football. It will happen. The new signings will bed in, particularly Westwood, Benteke, Vlaar and Lowton and with a couple odf signings in January we will be much better in the second half of the season.
There is no denial about it but maybe a glass half full viewpoint.
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Handball? (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/sergio-ageuro-manchester-city-v-aston-villa/)
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He is not a bottom less pit , he came in gave the pubey head more than what he should have, no one in the club at time to say stop, now were shopping at Lidl and dont think anything else coz it aint gonna happen
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@andiweimann
Thanks for killing the game linesman !!! #joke #disgrace of a decision !!
Pathetic. So what if we got a bad decision? Get over it. Stop blartin, put your shoulders back and show them who's boss. Or on the other hand, you could ship another 3 goals and tweet to the wider world how lame you are while on the coach back to Mummy.
Posters on here were queuing up last week to declare their pride in our players' attitude despite us bottling a 2-0 lead at home. This week it looks like we're backing a player who blames the officials for a 5-0 humping? How about we give our lads a standing ovation next week for putting their shorts on the right way round.
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I believe Faulkner has already stated that Lerner selling The Browns would have no bearing on what would be invested in the Villa.
I think the big worry is that we will struggle to attract the quality of player we all agree is desperately needed even if serious funds are made available. Top players don't want to go to bottom teams.
If anyone does come in, I suspect it will be of similar quality to the bulk of the signings made in the summer.
Faulkner has lost the plot if he said that. I don't understand how an owner can justify not investing in the team he owns and wants to make a success of after selling his other team for nearly $1 billion. That's when I would really start to wonder wtf is going on.
Perhaps he didn't want other clubs thinking that we have untold millions to spend. The signings last summer are making sense now; we're lulling others into a false sense of security before buying Messi in January.
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Oh well at least the cricket's on tomorrow. Doh!
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What happened? Where did it all go wrong?
That makes me quite sad. Why didn't our takeover work out the way we expected? Where's that footballing dynasty we thought we were in the process of building??
At least we always have been a big club and had a good history. Watching Chelsea and Man City becoming footballing superpowers as we flirt with relegation year in year out is quite bloody painful.
Lerner's not rich enough. I thought we were for the giddy heights until someone (on here I presume) pointed out the Pornodwarves down the road were worth more combined.
I believe he gave it his best shot with O'Neill, realised the true enormity and how much it would really need, and has been counting the pennies since.
But it was a good day.
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PL is a good boss what we need at the moment is a lucky one, not sure he is that.
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Pantomine season has started early on here. Bring on December when there's Saturday matinees.
Shocking decisions aside, we didn't really turn up today, creating very little for the strikers and never really testing the City defence.
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I expect Hughes to get the tick tack now and our old friend Harry will be in charge by the time we play them...
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Pissed off tonight anyone got the number of a good hooker
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didnt see the bannon handball incident but i saw the first one given against weimann. the referee needs to go aver to the lino and say can you tell me 100% that you saw deliberate handball. if his answer is yes and is then proved incorrect because nothing fucking happened then he should be suspended and made accountable for his decision. the rest of the game after that moment had gone.
something should give these fucking idiots and idea of whether a penalty is awarded or not by the response from the players and the fans. not one citeh player or fan in the stand saw feck all because there was feck all. a damn disgraceful decision, but his error will not take the injustice of it away!
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Pissed off tonight anyone got the number of a good hooker
I don't see how a rugby player is going to cheer you up, they're not very tender lovers.
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Very annoyed the players shook his hand. Fair play to Weimann for going back over. I'm furious. Neither was a penalty. We were doing fine at 1 - 0, we had any chance of getting anything from the game taken away from us.
Lino should be suspended.
Totally agree.
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There wasn't a single person in the stadium or watching on TV who appealed for or saw anything that resembled a penalty for the 2nd goal - fucking outrageous. None of the first 3 goals would have stood if it was at the other end. They had a lot of the ball but generally I thought we were still in with a chance, that 2nd goal knocked the life out of us, quickly followed by another generous decision by the same twat.
The results of far too many games are now determined by the levels of incompetence by the officials, usually in favour of those who need it least.
I have faith that we will be OK & didn't expect to get anything today. But we can't compete on or off the pitch with the likes of Citeh & just to make sure the officials conspire to ensure we don't. God forbid that we don't have 4 way battle for the title going into the last weeks of the season. The sooner the Sky 4 fuck off into whatever European league they create the better. I won't miss them.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
Posts like this read like someone trying to convince themselves of something that deep down they really don't believe.
Not at all. In the games I've seen this season I've already seen more promise than all of last season. I don't think we will go down.
We have a very good manager and play some very good football. It will happen. The new signings will bed in, particularly Westwood, Benteke, Vlaar and Lowton and with a couple odf signings in January we will be much better in the second half of the season.
There is no denial about it but maybe a glass half full viewpoint.
But these things don't automatically happen do they? Players don't automatically have better second halves to the season. Some of them may get worse, some will run out of steam. Being as how so many of our squad are kids I'd say either is likely.
Do we have a very good manager? We have a manager who has had one good season in the top flight.
Do we play some very good football? Only in brief flashes. The same could be said of pretty much any other team.
Will we stay up? Who knows?
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I think it's all very admirable to say that the team shows promise, and that there will be ups and downs but ultimately PL will turn us around.
It's very admirable indeed, but as it stands, we have few points, we are conceding goals and not winning games.
The ups seem to be very few and far between.
You know, a team can't go through a season not expecting to beat ANY of the top teams, and washing over defeats BECAUSE it's Man City,or Man U ,or Arsenal Or Chelsea etc. What is the point of being in the Premier if you just look forward to results against Wigan,Reading and Norwich ?
I think we are in serious,serious trouble and maybe this is going to be the one where the last couple of years catch up with us.
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I think it's all very admiral
It's very admiral indeed,
Put your fucking glasses on. Our kit is by Macron.
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The next four games will define our season, we have to get at least 6 points.
Even with those we need a massive injection of experience in our side in January to have a chance of staying up.
We're in trouble and that's for sure.
Arsenal game we need to get some confidence back because the Reading, QPR and Stoke games aren't going to be pretty.
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Even with those we need a massive injection of experience in our side in January to have a chance of staying up.
You're right, but as i've said before, who of quality will want to come here?
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Norwich outplaying Man Utd currently.
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And don't forget
'Buy low, sell high is the way to get us into the Champions League.'
I'm pretty certain that nobody has ever said that. Ever.
It was put forward as a template to advance as a club and to ultimately get us into the position of a Champions League.
Everton and Spurs were cited as examples. Everton. And Spurs. On previous. Threads.
I still think it will. Did anyone claim it would stop us from losing?
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Realistic expectations were we'd do well to come away with 1-0 or 2-0 today. It sounds as if we may not have been far off that but for a linesman who decided to invent a couple of handball offences. Matt Le Tissier said one was a joke, the other extremely harsh and neither should have been given. It's hard enough against the most expensively assembled team in the league, and you can't really do much when the officials are so clearly intent on sabotaging your efforts. Shame about the goal difference, the morale, and Reading and Southampton both winning, but points wise it was no surprise.
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Right lets get some clarity here! The football world expected us to lose to Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal. Well we are well on the way to achieving that objective. It doesnt matter one jot if an in form Arsenal turn us over as long as we beat Reading!!!! Then we have to beat QPR
(probably with Harry at the helm) and hopefully take something out of Stoke and for this game we need Nathan Baker at centre half as he is strong and confident in the air.
If hes fit (whether Lambert rates him or not )we need Darren Bent back in the team. It would be lunacy not to pick him for the simple reason that he is a renowned goalscorer, even for us! Unless we score goals we are not going to win games . Benteke will get a few but after that I wouldnt trust another forward to score more than one or two as the season moves on.
You can make as many excuses as you like but the manager should be doing a little bit better than he has so far.
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Stuck in traffic on a 'shameless' type estate opposite the ground - £40 for me, £34 for my dad and £24 for my son to get battered by the ref .
Fuck off modern football
And you go back for more every week. God bless you.
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Right lets get some clarity here! The football world expected us to lose to Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal. Well we are well on the way to achieving that objective. It doesnt matter one jot if an in form Arsenal turn us over as long as we beat Reading!!!! Then we have to beat QPR
(probably with Harry at the helm) and hopefully take something out of Stoke and for this game we need Nathan Baker at centre half as he is strong and confident in the air.
If hes fit (whether Lambert rates him or not )we need Darren Bent back in the team. It would be lunacy not to pick him for the simple reason that he is a renowned goalscorer, even for us! Unless we score goals we are not going to win games . Benteke will get a few but after that I wouldnt trust another forward to score more than one or two as the season moves on.
You can make as many excuses as you like but the manager should be doing a little bit better than he has so far.
Good post, can't disagree really.
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The worry is that what has saved us in the past is a decent start (e.g. O'neils's first season and even last season ) whatever happens we have had our worst start ever in the Premier league. Have we forgotten how to win game ? It feels like it.
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I don't agree with lamberts assessment that joe hart made some world class saves to keep it at 0-0 - the save from benteke yes but what other world class saves is he referring to in his comments on the official site?
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I'm going to have a kebab tonight to cheer myself up. Fuck it, I might have two. I think it's a two-kebab result today.
I have just driven past Spice Kebab on Soho road they have s buy one get one free on all their kebabs. Get yourself down there!
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I'm still looking for evidence that Lambert isn't just the latest boss to have one good season in the Premier League with a promoted team, before being totally and utterly found out after that, eg Owen Coyle, Ian Holloway etc, or one that ties to do things "the right way" but is ultimately unsuccessful, eg Mowbray.
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I don't agree with lamberts assessment that joe hart made some world class saves to keep it at 0-0 - the save from benteke yes but what other world class saves is he referring to in his comments on the official site?
He saved an own goal from some City player which was excellent. Probably what he was referring to.
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I don't agree with lamberts assessment that joe hart made some world class saves to keep it at 0-0 - the save from benteke yes but what other world class saves is he referring to in his comments on the official site?
He saved an own goal from some City player which was excellent. Probably what he was referring to.
Wan't an offside (another crap decision) given though meaning it would have been disallowed? The near OG incident I mean.
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Paul Lambert on City loss.
By Paul Brown
Paul Lambert was furious at the game-changing first penalty award at Manchester City, calling it a "ridiculous, woeful" decision.
Trailing 1-0 to a David Silva goal, City were handed a second-half spot-kick when Andreas Weimann was adjudged to have handled in the area.
Following an innocuous-looking Silva corner, no City players appealed but the linesman informed referee Jon Moss that Weimann had handled the flighted cross.
Replays showed conclusively that no such infringement had occurred.
And the decision angered the Villa boss as City capitalised to run-out 5-0 winners at the Etihad Stadium.
Lambert said: "That is never a handball. Nowhere near. How he's called that I don't know.
"It was absolutely ridiculous. That's never a penalty. It's not touched his hand. It's not deviated in its flight whatsoever.
"There were no appeals from City because it came off the City player's head. I have watched it back.
"How he call that at an important point in the game? He's got to be 100%. I am 100% sure it wasn't a penalty. It's wrong.
"It's the wrong decision. In big games, you've got to call these things right and that was definitely a wrong decision.
"It's come off the City lad's head. As I said, you've got to be 100% sure with big moments. If he's 100% sure of that, what an eyesight he's got.
"Nobody appealed. Bizarre! It's a big moment. You have to call it right and it was certainly the wrong decision.
"I am not happy about it. If we are asked to come and speak to you [the press] then sometimes so should they. I just think that was a wrong decision."
Lambert also felt the second penalty decision - when Barry Bannan was also adjudged to have handled - was harsh.
He continued: "He lost his footing. I can understand why he gave it but Barry has put his hand on the ground and it's a natural, human reaction to do that.
"But the way the linesman was performing I didn't have a clue what he was going to flag for."
Despite the defeat, Lambert was adamant Villa will "bounce back strongly."
He added: "This won't hamper our progress. We will bounce back strongly.
"The last few weeks the lads have given it everything they've got.
"Joe Hart made some world-class saves to keep it 0-0. We had some chances. But I thought that decision was a massive call and he got it wrong.
"We were still in the game. That's the point. I thought some decisions weren't correct.
"They are a top side with fantastic players. Take nothing away from them. But I am disappointed.
"The lads have been excellent for the last few weeks and we will continue to try and keep progressing the football club."
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I don't agree with lamberts assessment that joe hart made some world class saves to keep it at 0-0 - the save from benteke yes but what other world class saves is he referring to in his comments on the official site?
He saved an own goal from some City player which was excellent. Probably what he was referring to.
Wan't an offside (another crap decision) given though meaning it would have disallowed?
Almost certainly. Honestly I understand us getting beat but I am now genuinely thinking officials take bribes. Seriously. It is too consistently for certain rich clubs to be accidental.
Tin foil hat on and all that, but thats now what I think.
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I seriously doubt that.
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You wonder if Norwich (or teams like that) ever won the title, would they get all the decisions then too?
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I don't think it's corruption. A mix of bias and/or incompetence certainly though.
How confident is anyone that any, never mind all, decisions for the first 3 goals would have been given for us? We might have got the second penalty but i'm sure the foot up for the first and the first penalty wouldn't have gone in our favour.
Or that the OG incident would have been offside for City?
Or if Ireland and Bannan would not have been booked for the Toure and Barry challenges?
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I never used to, but I have come round to believing it. I know it sounds ridiculous but it happens in other countries including big ones like Italy, FIFA believes it is a massive problem and wants to find better ways of fighting it. Honestly I no longer trust the premier league referees integrity.
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I don't think for one minute that officials are being bribed. I do think they favour big teams, but usually when it comes to giving decisions for / against their opponents. Today's decision was just simply inept, and if it had been called against Man City we would not hear the last of it until the linesman had been suspended or demoted.
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I don't agree with lamberts assessment that joe hart made some world class saves to keep it at 0-0 - the save from benteke yes but what other world class saves is he referring to in his comments on the official site?
He saved an own goal from some City player which was excellent. Probably what he was referring to.
Wan't an offside (another crap decision) given though meaning it would have disallowed?
Almost certainly. Honestly I understand us getting beat but I am now genuinely thinking officials take bribes. Seriously. It is too consistently for certain rich clubs to be accidental.
Tin foil hat on and all that, but thats now what I think.
Nonsense. There's no conspiracy, it's just a shit decision. Happens all the time. The only time it'll change is when we get video replays.
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Expected to lose and lost. Shame the GD took a pounding. Ridiculous decesions haven't gone our way, but they don't when you are struggling.
Yes we are in a perilous position but I'm looking around the rest down there and as poor as we have been, it's stupidly tight. The next four games will see what we are in for the rest of the season...a real relegation dogfight or a few ups and downs and doing enough to remain clear of danger.
Saturday night straight after the game is never the best time for perspective anyway... Not gonna let this game, away to a quality side, take away the decent 60 mins vs Man Yoo last week...
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I don't think it's corruption. A mix of bias and/or incompetence certainly though.
How confident is anyone that any, never mind all, decisions for the first 3 goals would have been given for us? We might have got the second penalty but i'm sure the foot up for the first and the first penalty wouldn't have gone in our favour.
Or that the OG incident would have been offside for City?
Or if Ireland and Bannan would not have been booked for the Toure and Barry challenges?
It's as if some officials seem to freeze when involved in games with the usual suspects, like they need to make calls in favour of the teams involved in the title as getting those calls wrong is more important than decisions for mid-table teams ad below. Like any other profession, some of them are better than others and most fans and players / managers accept that you win some and you lose some but that isn't what we see regularly. I'd actually be amazed if anybody was on the take despite my match thread comments after that penalty. But, there is a clear and present bias towards certain clubs. Today was a prefect example. When have you ever seen an underdog get TWO dodgy penalties against a title chasing team full of superstars? I can't remember once witnessing it.
ANyway. We were shit after the second goal and embarrassing after the third and that isn't good enough. Lambert has my full support as I've seen just about enough signs of life to suggest it could come together to a mid-table position, but the team and PL himself need to deliver some wins in the coming few fixtures. I see some folk writing the Arsenal game off - not for me. We need something out of that game.
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I don't think it's corruption. A mix of bias and/or incompetence certainly though.
How confident is anyone that any, never mind all, decisions for the first 3 goals would have been given for us? We might have got the second penalty but i'm sure the foot up for the first and the first penalty wouldn't have gone in our favour.
Or that the OG incident would have been offside for City?
Or if Ireland and Bannan would not have been booked for the Toure and Barry challenges?
Dead right. I don't believe it's corruption either, at least not in the financial sense. But I'm absolutely convinced that certain rich and powerful clubs get favourable decisions from officials, because it means an easier ride for those officials. And those officials are supposedly being assessed on their performance by people from their own organisation. Who apparently think that's OK. Which, to me, is corruption of a different kind.
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Poor decisions from the linesman and I expect he will be punished and dropped from officiating for a while- just to add to our bad day Norwich are beating man utd.
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I think it's all very admiral
It's very admiral indeed,
Put your fucking glasses on. Our kit is by Macron.
Little wonder that we are all at sea.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
You've lifted my spirits up England Dan.
I'd really love to see you tonight.
Is that an offer? :-)
That's desperate Dan.
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I don't think it's corruption. A mix of bias and/or incompetence certainly though.
How confident is anyone that any, never mind all, decisions for the first 3 goals would have been given for us? We might have got the second penalty but i'm sure the foot up for the first and the first penalty wouldn't have gone in our favour.
Or that the OG incident would have been offside for City?
Or if Ireland and Bannan would not have been booked for the Toure and Barry challenges?
Dead right. I don't believe it's corruption either, at least not in the financial sense. But I'm absolutely convinced that certain rich and powerful clubs get favourable decisions from officials, because it means an easier ride for those officials. And those officials are supposedly being assessed on their performance by people from their own organisation. Who apparently think that's OK. Which, to me, is corruption of a different kind.
This was talked about in the thread by Sonlyme a few days ago - there's no transparency in the refs organisation, which is critical for a professional organisation. They want it all their own way - on the one hand they want to claim they're pro's, but when they make a cock-up, and the paying customers (lets not forget that's how fans are viewed these days) complain, then they say they can't get everything right and clam up. The paying customers can get to fuck for all they care. It isn't good enough, today's decisions weren't good enough, and as a club we deserve an explanation, and that goes regardless of how shit we were - and lets not forget that City were only 1-0 up from a scrappy as fuck goal.
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Given the amounts of money washing around in football the temptations to offer and/or accept a bribe are immense. I'm not sure why people are so convinced it doesn't happen in the PL, because it happens in many many other walks of life with far smaller amounts involved. You may find the thought distasteful because "we're British" and we don't stoop to those kind of things, but it's not entirely without precedent in the English top tier with allegations against Revie and his Leeds team - although I'm not sure if they were ever proven. Regardless, when you see some decisions, like today's, they do seem to go way beyond mere incompetence, bias and bowing to pressure, and I often wonder at the integrity of some officials. My wife just laughs at suggestions that the whole world of football isn't fixed or subject to bribery, because of the amounts involved. But then corruption is a way of life in her country.
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Our officials aren't corrupt, they're just over-promoted. There's a shortage of officials these days because people don't want to take dog's abuse on a Sunday morning running a pub fixture. The ones we have are either too inexperienced or too overawed by famous clubs.
The key is for Lambert to drum into the players that nobody's out to get us. What happened was a joke but it's not something we can legislate for. The fact we had the same side but set up totally differently this week to last is. I firmly believe if we'd have come at them like we did against Man Yoo we'd have got something today, because City aren't a team, they're a collection of individuals.
It's imperative we fly out of the traps against Arsenal. Play like nervous apprentices again and see what happens - you turn every subsequent game into an eighteen pointer.
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Norwich still winning
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After a good win and then a very good performance, we took a bit of a hammering as other clubs have at Citeh. I didn't realise H&V had become one of those suicide websites though . . .
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The 4 games after Arsenal are all massive.
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Perhaps the root of the problem in this country - like so many of our problems - lies with the all powerful media. Any official knows that if he gaffes against a big club the media will be all over it like pigeons in bus-stop sick. If it's against a media non-entity like Villa, it will hardly warrant a mention. No pressure. Gaffe away.
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The 4 games after Arsenal are all massive.
All games are, but I take your point.
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The 4 games after Arsenal are all massive.
All games are, but I take your point.
We need to take more than a point
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Going off topic about refs. My son has a match tomorrow morning. As is the norm the home team called him during the week to confirm the details etc. Today he gets a call from the away team to confirm he is the ref. - stating the home team like to appoint their owns refs.
And this is mini-soccer level!!!!!!!
Win at all costs?????
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Going off topic about refs. My son has a match tomorrow morning. As is the norm the home team called him during the week to confirm the details etc. Today he gets a call from the away team to confirm he is the ref. - stating the home team like to appoint their owns refs.
And this is mini-soccer level!!!!!!!
Win at all costs?????
One of the many reasons why I refuse to get involved in weekend football and just focus my efforts on my school teams.
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The 4 games after Arsenal are all massive.
All games are, but I take your point.
We need to take more than a point
I think we'll get 9.
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Make that 10.
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Make that 10.
9 points from 12 games, and you think we'll get 10 from 4?
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Ever the optomist!
WWWD
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Make that 10.
Fancy us at Anfield then?
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I wish we had a solid midfield and defence like Norwich, they've been good.
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I never used to, but I have come round to believing it. I know it sounds ridiculous but it happens in other countries including big ones like Italy, FIFA believes it is a massive problem and wants to find better ways of fighting it. Honestly I no longer trust the premier league referees integrity.
Except that unlike Italy, the UK hasn't had to deal with Mafia insurgency in local, and to an extent, national government for decades. There's a very different culture to conspiracy and bribery in Italy, and I don't think it's a good comparison.
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Draw.
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Make that 10.
I like the optimism. I hope you are right!
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
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I think it's all very admiral to say that the team shows promise, and that there will be ups and downs but ultimately PL will turn us around.
It's very admiral indeed, but as it stands, we have few points, we are conceding goals and not winning games.
The ups seem to be very few and far between.
You know, a team can't go through a season not expecting to beat ANY of the top teams, and washing over defeats BECAUSE it's Man City,or Man U ,or Arsenal Or Chelsea etc. What is the point of being in the Premier if you just look forward to results against Wigan,Reading and Norwich ?
I think we are in serious,serious trouble and maybe this is going to be the one where the last couple of years catch up with us.
I think we need a better Horatio of wins to losses!
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
I totally agree. We would have lost without the bad decision. It was men against boys and we are deservedly in the bottom three. Will we ever emerge?
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
Absolutely. It's criminal to see how far we've plummeted in just a couple or three years. Sell your best players and replace them with cheap foreign imports and lower league rubbish and this is what happens.
Thanks Randy!
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Please tell me people aren't blaming corrupt officials for the result today. It was a shocking decision but I doubt for a second it's cause was anything other than the lino being a plum. Some people sound like Liverpool fans with their tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.
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I think there's a lot of over the top reactions. We were in a game until a horrendous Linesman decision. This side is better than last years. We will stay up. Lambert has had just 12 league games to make changes. We will have a far better second half to the season. Suck it up and move on.
*Puts on tin hat and ducks*
I'm with you pal.
Two wins and we are mid table. It will be an up and down season, we are not adrift at the bottom and the players have faith in the gaffer. So should we.
You've lifted my spirits up England Dan.
I'd really love to see you tonight.
Is that an offer? :-)
That's desperate Dan.
Very good. *clappy emoticon*
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
City were leading from a scrappy goal scored just before half time, our defence was doing very well. Also, up to that point, we had the best chance of the game with the Benteke header. I'm not going to say that we were playing fantastically, but we carved a couple of decent chances in the first half, and they were better than what City could muster as we restricted them to speculative shots. Celtic proved you can do it against the best as long as you stick to your game plan, however, ours was stuck in the shitter by utterly inept officiating. The kids were given a mauling today, however it wasn't Man City that dished it out.
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It's hard enough being 1-0 down up there without the linesman giving them help to extend their lead. He should be made to run the line in the League 2 for a few months although i'm not sure the clubs down there deserve him either.
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I never used to, but I have come round to believing it. I know it sounds ridiculous but it happens in other countries including big ones like Italy, FIFA believes it is a massive problem and wants to find better ways of fighting it. Honestly I no longer trust the premier league referees integrity.
Except that unlike Italy, the UK hasn't had to deal with Mafia insurgency in local, and to an extent, national government for decades. There's a very different culture to conspiracy and bribery in Italy, and I don't think it's a good comparison.
But not all club owners are from our culture, and it's fair to say that some of the more wealthy ones hail from cultures where one doesn't gain or retain one's fortune or power by exhibiting traits like transparency, integrity, fairness and honesty.
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
Absolutely. It's criminal to see how far we've plummeted in just a couple or three years. Sell your best players and replace them with cheap foreign imports and lower league rubbish and this is what happens.
Thanks Randy!
Have to agree.
Lerner is a fucking imbecile.
Proud history, wank future.
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I haven't seen anyone say we'd have got a result today regardless of the decisions, just comment on them not helping and also go a bit off topic with officiating standards. Neither have many seriously called them corrupt.
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I never used to, but I have come round to believing it. I know it sounds ridiculous but it happens in other countries including big ones like Italy, FIFA believes it is a massive problem and wants to find better ways of fighting it. Honestly I no longer trust the premier league referees integrity.
Except that unlike Italy, the UK hasn't had to deal with Mafia insurgency in local, and to an extent, national government for decades. There's a very different culture to conspiracy and bribery in Italy, and I don't think it's a good comparison.
But not all club owners are from our culture, and it's fair to say that some of the more wealthy ones hail from cultures where one doesn't gain or retain one's fortune or power by exhibiting traits like transparency, integrity, fairness and honesty.
What the dickens is going on here?
EDIT: ahaaaa, I see your quick edit ;)
Probably not, but I was commenting on the comparison to Italy. Plus, I don't think it's wise to just assume that people MIGHT be corrupt because of the place where they hail from. In fact, the shisters tend to get found out; the guy at Man City before the Sheikh for a start, plus those at Pompey and the Blues.
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
Yes, against the most expensively assembled team in the League that cost about 10 times our team. Fancy that.
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I am. Possibly the post game anger talking but it is how I feel.
That said, I agree a debate on whether or not officials are corrupt should not be the main focus.
The main focus should be us as a team being outclassed and in the relegation zone and how the hell we are going to get out of it. In particular I worry that once again we are simply giving up possession time and time again.
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Ok I've found a positive
Shots on Target 8-8
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Yeah ,one man to blame for the mess the club are in,the man who owns the club who we never see or hear from. No wonder the Browns were happy to get rid of him
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Ok I've found a positive
Shots on Target 8-8
I will grasp that straw!
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I expected to lose today , however I'm hoping the confidence gained from our display last week hasn't been destroyed by the trouncing today, we were poor today and too many players had off days - we need to put this defeat quickly to bed and give a much better performance against the gunners.
Arsenal will be tough but they are suspect at the back and beatable, reading ,qpr and stoke are Huge and we need to pick up wins .
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
Yes, against the most expensively assembled team in the League that cost about 10 times our team. Fancy that.
Southampton outclassed us as well, and they cost bugger all.
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Yeah ,one man to blame for the mess the club are in,the man who owns the club who we never see or hear from. No wonder the Browns were happy to get rid of him
It's all well and good being a mute when things are going well, but it's times like now where we need to hear from the owner or CEO. Even if it's just to say hello.
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I can accept officials missing something but to make up things which didn't happen surely begs the question of either incompetence or dishonesty.
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This is starting to feel eerily like last season where the side simply have forgotten how to win games or hold leads. And when we get behind there is next to no fight to get back into it. When you look at Norwich and Reading winning, Southampton getting a massive 3 pts at QPR who will now likely make a managerial change, and ignoring the likes of West Brom beating Chelsea, there is real concern that the rot at the club is too deep even for Lambert to correct. We were very lucky last year that we ran out of games. One or two more weeks and we'd have gone for sure. This season, the worrying run has started very early and if we don't figure this out soon we'll be cast adrift of the others.
It's no longer just about resources. Whether Randy will give the manager money to arrest the situation. The malaise at the club just seems so deep.The kids are trying but the quality and experience isn't there. I'm trying to stay balanced about this as I know there is a long way to go and a lot can change, but it's bloody hard keeping a positive or optimistic outlook on things.
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Have not read the thread, so sorry if I am repeating... But can we stop hoofing the ball every freaking time we get it in the back?!?!?!? It simply invites pressure right back on us. In the preseason, it seemed that we were trying to play it on the ground, but this strategy has gone out the window with Benteke in the team. Why? Please stop it, Lambert!
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Christ...Its 'slits your wrists saturday' on here.
Get used to it. It will probably be like this all season and a nail biter at the end, but I prefer the ride were on at the moment than the crap served up by that prick last season.
Keep the faith.
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Have not read the thread, so sorry if I am repeating... But can we stop hoofing the ball every freaking time we get it in the back?!?!?!? It simply invites pressure right back on us. In the preseason, it seemed that we were trying to play it on the ground, but this strategy has gone out the window with Benteke in the team. Why? Please stop it, Lambert!
We don't.
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I'm still optimistic if i'm honest. We've brought a manager in who recognised pretty sharpish that last season's full backs were not good enough and replaced them. The jury's still out on Bennett but Lowton does look good, He's also signed a decent looking midfielder and a striker who looks a class act. It's not good at the moment but i honestly think we'll be ok.
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Christ...Its 'slits your wrists saturday' on here.
Get used to it. It will probably be like this all season and a nail biter at the end, but I prefer the ride were on at the moment than the crap served up by that prick last season.
Keep the faith.
But we're actually worse than last season. I don't get all this "it was worse under McLeish". We've gone from bad to worse!
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I didn't feel any hope under McLeish. Indeed, I didn't feel any hope under Houllier.
I have hope under Lambert. I'm excited by what we're doing - I really hope we bottom out this season & kick on into next.
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Count me in with the optimists. Weekends like this are bloody hard work but I believe things will get better.
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I didn't feel any hope under McLeish. Indeed, I didn't feel any hope under Houllier.
I have hope under Lambert. I'm excited by what we're doing - I really hope we bottom out this season & kick on into next.
My take on it as well GP.
I really believe there is something in the making and PL is the man to lead it.
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I didn't feel any hope under McLeish. Indeed, I didn't feel any hope under Houllier.
I have hope under Lambert. I'm excited by what we're doing - I really hope we bottom out this season & kick on into next.
I'm deeply worried about the weakness of the squad and where the points are going to come from, but at least we're trying under Lambert.
McLeish was so fucking depressing not because of the results, or the shit football per se, but because that was all he was ever going to aspire to. Even if we're failing this season, at least we're trying. Last year, we didn't.
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This is starting to feel eerily like last season where the side simply have forgotten how to win games or hold leads. And when we get behind there is next to no fight to get back into it. When you look at Norwich and Reading winning, Southampton getting a massive 3 pts at QPR who will now likely make a managerial change, and ignoring the likes of West Brom beating Chelsea, there is real concern that the rot at the club is too deep even for Lambert to correct. We were very lucky last year that we ran out of games. One or two more weeks and we'd have gone for sure. This season, the worrying run has started very early and if we don't figure this out soon we'll be cast adrift of the others.
It's no longer just about resources. Whether Randy will give the manager money to arrest the situation. The malaise at the club just seems so deep.The kids are trying but the quality and experience isn't there. I'm trying to stay balanced about this as I know there is a long way to go and a lot can change, but it's bloody hard keeping a positive or optimistic outlook on things.
This is my worry to, we can't win at home , even less away how do we get out of this ?The only way I think is for an experienced talisman type leader on the pitch who will drag us up by the bootlaces any one out of contract coz we can't wait till January.
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McLeish was so fucking depressing not because of the results, or the shit football per se, but because that was all he was ever going to aspire to. Even if we're failing this season, at least we're trying. Last year, we didn't.
Couldn't agree more, the only time in over 30 years of following Villa that going to VP became a chore. Looking back I enjoyed it less than the year we went down.
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I just made the mistake of looking at the table.
We are eighteenth with nine points while West fucking Brom are in the top four.
How the feck has this happened???
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Lambert spent the whole post match interview talking about the 1st pen decision. Regardless of that we were torn apart today and it's about the general crap that's been dished up over 12 games. Woefully inexperienced squad, rotten defence and a lightweight midfield.
I'm not sure he can turn this around. Need a top CB and a top DCM as a minimum in January.
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As i said a bit earlier in the thread we can play a big part in this perilous time by getting behind this young team and the manager.It would be so easy to stay away or moan. Lets turn this around ouselves and give it our best shot, it looks like a confidence thing affecting the team as previous posters have said today a couple of wins on the bounce and things would look a lot better.
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I just made the mistake of looking at the table.
We are eighteenth with nine points while West fucking Brom are in the top four.
How the feck has this happened???
They have done it with a fraction of our money as well.
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McLeish was so fucking depressing not because of the results, or the shit football per se, but because that was all he was ever going to aspire to. Even if we're failing this season, at least we're trying. Last year, we didn't.
Couldn't agree more, the only time in over 30 years of following Villa that going to VP became a chore. Looking back I enjoyed it less than the year we went down.
And that appointment is another black mark against our owner's name.
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As i said a bit earlier in the thread we can play a big part in this perilous time by getting behind this young team and the manager.It would be so easy to stay away or moan. Lets turn this around ouselves and give it our best shot, it looks like a confidence thing affecting the team as previous posters have said today a couple of wins on the bounce and things would look a lot better.
Yep, stick together and lift the lads.
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Scary thing is, Ci£y didn't even play that well and it Ends 5-0.
Bloody hell how far we have fallen so quickly.
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I just made the mistake of looking at the table.
We are eighteenth with nine points while West fucking Brom are in the top four.
How the feck has this happened???
They have done it with a fraction of our money as well.
Oh fucking bollocks to the stripey twats. This is the best run they've had in 30 years and it isn't December yet. Lets see where they are later in the season when injuries and exhaustion take their toll.
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Lets see where they are later in the season when injuries and exhaustion take their toll.
I'm more worried about where we'll be later in the season when injuries and exhaustion take their toll.
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McLeish was so fucking depressing not because of the results, or the shit football per se, but because that was all he was ever going to aspire to. Even if we're failing this season, at least we're trying. Last year, we didn't.
Couldn't agree more, the only time in over 30 years of following Villa that going to VP became a chore. Looking back I enjoyed it less than the year we went down.
And that appointment is another black mark against our owner's name.
I have made the point on several occassions that the reason we are in the shit is down to Lerner and no-one else but i usually get shouted down. Lambert is doing a great job with the players he's got, he structures the side well and trys to play the modern game but the squad is championship class at best and unless a lot of money is spent in January we will be relegated.
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As i said a bit earlier in the thread we can play a big part in this perilous time by getting behind this young team and the manager.It would be so easy to stay away or moan. Lets turn this around ouselves and give it our best shot, it looks like a confidence thing affecting the team as previous posters have said today a couple of wins on the bounce and things would look a lot better.
This.
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Lets see where they are later in the season when injuries and exhaustion take their toll.
I'm more worried about where we'll be later in the season when injuries and exhaustion take their toll.
Yep, that as well. I'd rather talk about Villa's situation than the Albion's though.
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In my opinion:
An owner who's business acumen rides on his father's reputation, and has demonstrated his ability to take a sports franchise south, along with a CEO allegedly appointed as a YTS trainee. How come no other clubs around us seem to be following this supposed business model in preparation for FIFA's financial fair play rules?
Yes the linesman was looking for free flights to Melbourne (only 826 with one stopover on Etihad!) but we have a championship quality team, and the one PL player we have (Bent) has been marginalised and mothballed in preparation for the January Sales.
We have a half decent manager (no more than that) but an absurdly risky business strategy that no longer involves owner investment. Time Lerner sold up and got laser treatment for that alleged ankle tattoo.
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To blame the officials is a red herring.
We were outclassed.
Yes, against the most expensively assembled team in the League that cost about 10 times our team. Fancy that.
Southampton outclassed us as well, and they cost bugger all.
Yes, and that was a disappointment and something of a surprise. But this is about the Man City game, and I'm not sure what some people were expecting, even without the officials seemingly hell bent on helping the oppostition.
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Isnt it about the opening 12 games and the fact we have a woefully inexperienced squad and are in the relegation zone. Regardless of today's officiating we would have lost anyway.
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Yes the linesman was looking for free flights to Melbourne (only 826 with one stopover on Etihad!)
Ha, that's exactly what I turned to my lads and said at the game.
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We are looking like Billy McBingo's relegation side at the moment to me, full of kids, no experience and holding onto hope that they will pull us out of it.
I am truly worried for us his season despite all the positivity we look so weak.
I think to survive we need at least four high quality experienced players in January, but i don't think we'll get them.
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I can't see what's remotely exciting about 9 points from 12 and don't see where Lambert is going to get the improvement needed from. This is just as bad as last year, and although the football under McLeish was abysmal, at least he got enough points early on to keep us up.
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Don't like to say it but this is worse than last season.
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4-1
2-0
3-1
0-2
1-0
2-0
3-1
4-0
4-1
5-0
That's our record against City since they moved to Eastlands so fair to say even when we had good teams we usually get battered up there.
That said it's never acceptable especially when we've pretty much played a third of the season now to see Aston Villa's name in the bottom 3.
Our season starts against Arsenal and we need some proper performances against them and then Reading, QPR and Stoke.
We simply can't be in the bottom 3 after those games.
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Isnt it about the opening 12 games and the fact we have a woefully inexperienced squad and are in the relegation zone. Regardless of today's officiating we would have lost anyway.
Well I'm sure we're all well aware of the ongoing problems but there is a clue in the thread title, and you were referring to us being outclassed today. I just wondered what you, and some others, were honestly expecting, given our squad and our struggles so far this season.
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Don't like to say it but this is worse than last season.
Damn right it is! It's deluded to think otherwise. We've been the absolute pits this season. I just don't understand this, "at least it's better than last season" nonsense, we've been worse!
If we don't splash the cash in January we'll go down. The "young and hungry" experiment (aka, cost cutting) has failed miserably.
Get a grip Villa fans, we're gong down if we don't sufficiently invest in the window. And I don't mean with more lower league crap!
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Nice to read a few posters keeping their chins up. Hopefully the players can too.
It sounds mad after 0-5 but I still think we're decent.
Agree completely and think that some people at the moment are like pigs in mud in misery.
Yes.
I'm really enjoying being on a downer about the club i've supported for 38 years, it fair makes my day.
Yep, I love seeing the team under the dreaded dotted line and getting battered, it's better than winning the lottery. Let's all just witter on about "ups and downs" and "Lambert moving us in the right direction" while all the time we sleep walk towards relegation.
And don't forget, "young and hungry players".
And don't forget
'Buy low, sell high is the way to get us into the Champions League.'
And don't forget 'plucky', 'we pick ourselves up and go again' and 'he's just a kid'.
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Have not read the thread, so sorry if I am repeating... But can we stop hoofing the ball every freaking time we get it in the back?!?!?!? It simply invites pressure right back on us. In the preseason, it seemed that we were trying to play it on the ground, but this strategy has gone out the window with Benteke in the team. Why? Please stop it,
We don't.
Well, we must be watching different games, Legion. I can count on one hand the times Guzan played it to one of his defenders.
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
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The team that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a shory spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games after leading. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
We weren't leading against west brom... or am i losing the plot.
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We weren't leading against west brom... or am i losing the plot.
Yes that is correct so it's not that bad!
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saints game is the warning. Jan is the chance to survive
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saints game is the warning. Jan is the chance to survive
Yes, and only players with Premier League experience will do.
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That was a long-winded way of saying the teams that get relegated don't get many points.
I still think the optimists will eventually be proved right. I think we've got quite a few good players and a decent system and philosophy, but it's vital their heads don't drop.
BTW, it wasn't at all guaranteed we'd have lost today had the officials not extended their one goal lead for no apparent reason.
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saints game is the warning. Jan is the chance to survive
Yes, and only players with Premier League experience will do.
I honestly think we are deluding ourselves thinking it's going to happen. We have spent most of the last two years (from the signing of Bent) making it abundantly clear we want rid of high earners and bringing through youth.
Anyone with the sort of experience to which you refer and obviously what we need will want fortunes in wages to come to a relegation threatened team, even assuming Lambert wants that type of player - the evidence of his tenure to date suggests he wouldn't. The horse has well and truly bolted.
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Signing and paying fortunes to Given, CNZ and Hutton is a funny way of getting rid of the top earners.
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Signing and paying fortunes to Given, CNZ and Hutton is a funny way of getting rid of the top earners.
How do we know we haven't tried and failed to get rid of these. See Young, Downing, Milner, Hutton (they tried their hardest), Warnock, Friedel. Now look at Bent.
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saints game is the warning. Jan is the chance to survive
Yes, and only players with Premier League experience will do.
I honestly think we are deluding ourselves thinking it's going to happen. We have spent most of the last two years (from the signing of Bent) making it abundantly clear we want rid of high earners and bringing through youth.
Anyone with the sort of experience to which you refer and obviously what we need will want fortunes in wages to come to a relegation threatened team, even assuming Lambert wants that type of player - the evidence of his tenure to date suggests he wouldn't. The horse has well and truly bolted.
I really hope you're wrong, but the more the season goes on the more I feel you'll be proved right.
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Signing and paying fortunes to Given, CNZ and Hutton is a funny way of getting rid of the top earners.
And like Bent they're out of the team and out of favour. Won't be long till they're out of the club as well.
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
You forgot that teams that get relegated have supposed fans who moan and boo rather than getting behind the team exuding a negative outlook.
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
You forgot that teams that get relegated have supposed fans who moan and boo rather than getting behind the team exuding a negative outlook.
Having a positive outlook means jacks hit when the team loses practically every week. It's called delusion.
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12 th man?
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God the other results have been a real killer today. i've a feeling we've really painted ourselves into a corner too.
We desperately need some quality in the middle of the park (what we have currently isn't anywhere near good enough) but it'll be almost impossible to attract the type of players needed in January (i'm assuming we'll be bottom 5) unless you overpay on their wages - something I can't see Lerner doing.
We could use money from the sale of Darren Bent but who'll come sniffing, QPR for instance - would you really want him to go there?
Bottom line is after a few years of trying, Randy has finally achieved making us one of the three worst teams in the division and i've no faith in him getting us out of it. Next 4 games will tell us, but i can see us being bottom at Christmas.
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12 th man?
Rubbish. You can cheer all you like and it won't make an iota of difference if the team is shite.
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I have zero doubts that Lerner will spend money and a lot of money in January. Unfortunately I dont know if it will be enough I really dont.
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I have zero doubts that Lerner will spend money and a lot of money in January. Unfortunately I dont know if it will be enough I really dont.
The thing is if he doesn't spend and we get relegated we'll lose more money than he ever would if he invested and we stayed up. Relegation would be a financial disaster for Villa so he simply has to spend to stay up.
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Oh I agree and I am sure he will. Its just expensive players may not have time to gel and save us.
I am going to ask something now, dont get mad, just asking it.
I dont recall McLeish getting us actually in the relegation zone last season did he?
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Oh I agree and I am sure he will. Its just expensive players may not have time to gel and save us.
I am going to ask something now, dont get mad, just asking it.
I dont recall McLeish getting us actually in the relegation zone last season did he?
McLeish was a disaster for Villa, but I don't care what anyone says, this season is worse!
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I dont recall McLeish getting us actually in the relegation zone last season did he?
Not sure but another game or two and we certainly would've been. I'm actually more pessimistic about our chances this year and in previous relegation scrapes - largely based on the lack of an obvious bottom club and our lack of quality in midfield. If we're relying on the like of Stephen Ireland, one of the most unreliable players I can remember down B6, then we are in trouble.
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My god. Some of you lot are so pessimistic its untrue.
If you compare the games played this season with the corresponding fixtures from last we're better off.
The results are dreadful. The performances offer hope.
This is a young and developing team. They will get better and are currently learning the hard way.
I really would worry having you on my team; your heads drop and you'd drag the team down.
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I really would worry having you on my team; your heads drop and you'd drag the team down.
Spoken like a true team player.
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Barely got a mention on MOTD. A Vincent Kompany love in. That penalty was the worst decision I have seen for a long ,long time.
Good words from Ron at the end. Only 3 points and all that.
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Maybe Drummond and i'd love you to be right. And I agree that we have some good young players at the club, however we don't have enough experienced, dependable leaders and that's going to be our problem in a relegation scrap.
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Be a long time until jug ears will taste any crisps - tongue firmly up Kompanys arse on MOTD
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Talk about letting the ref off the hook on MOTD.
Kompany must have been sent to the studio by the MCFC media department to cover the stench.
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Talk about letting the ref off the hook on MOTD.
Kompany must have been sent to the studio by the MCFC media department to cover the stench.
Indeedy. Lets not investigate the ridiculous decision lets joke about a back back pass. Cretins.
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My god. Some of you lot are so pessimistic its untrue.
If you compare the games played this season with the corresponding fixtures from last we're better off.
The results are dreadful. The performances offer hope.
This is a young and developing team. They will get better and are currently learning the hard way.
I really would worry having you on my team; your heads drop and you'd drag the team down.
This is typical of the ostrich approach by some of the supporters. Over the past 3 seasons we have become progressively worse. The stewardship of the club has bought us to this position of abjectivity. To think we have gone from being a CL contender to 14 points behind West Bromwich Albion (West Bromwich Albion for fcuk sake) tells you all you need to know about the direction we are heading. It isn't anything to do with pessimism, it's realism. The young players might have promise, but, young players alone will not see this team through to survival in my opinion. If you want to see the fine dividing line in this league, look at Norwich's performance and result against Manure compared to ours last week. Performances not too dissimilar, results, due to their relative experience very, very different.
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Drummond, I think its justified to be a bit pessimistic when we just got humiliated 5-0, are in the relegation zone and doing worse than last season which we survived going down by a whisker, no? :)
I mean, if a bit of pessimism and gloom isnt justified now then when on earth is it?
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Easter time,I truely think this team will turn it around.However this result and Bentekes comment have really pissed me off,not to mention that daft swedish kid...
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Talk about letting the ref off the hook on MOTD.
Kompany must have been sent to the studio by the MCFC media department to cover the stench.
Indeedy. Lets not investigate the ridiculous decision lets joke about a back back pass. Cretins.
Anyone think it would have been ignored if we'd won and that decision went against City?
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We're stll only 5th favourites to go down. I'd be happy with 16th in May.
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Can't believe they have not laid into the officials on match of the day - fuckin disgrace. I'm not saying we would have got anything out of the game in the end City were comfortable winners but we had a decent first half and were still in it at one nil, that penalty turned the game. They can't be allowed to get away with it I hope the club are going to make an official complaint, no doubt the FA will just dismiss it and charge Andy Weimann for having a go after the whistle.
On a positive note, Arsenal looked shit until Spurs went down to ten, play like we did last week and I think we'll take them, back it up with a decent win against Reading and we'll be clawing back the Albion whose inevitable run of ten defeats must be coming soon ;).
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If someone had asked me before the Manure game if I was worried about us going down my answer would have been no as i've said before. Two games later and 2 defeats against the best 2 sides in the country doesn't change that. It's the next 4 that will indicate if i'm right or not, especially Reading, Stoke and QPR.
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Well Match of the Day was truly cringeworthy. Lineker will need some mouthwash to get rid of the taste of Kompany's arsehole.
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If someone had asked me before the Manure game if I was worried about us going down my answer would have been no as i've said before. Two games later and 2 defeats against the best 2 sides in the country doesn't change that. It's the next 4 that will indicate if i'm right or not, especially Reading, Stoke and QPR.
Fingers crossed. I hope we get those wins and never have to worry about this stuff again. We have used up a lot of our margin for error though.
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Well Match of the Day was truly cringeworthy. Lineker will need some mouthwash to get rid of the taste of Kompany's arsehole.
First time i've ever seen rimming on BBC.
As well as 'Onest 'Arry as good as saying he'd take the QPR job. What a wonderful unbiased programme it is.
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If someone had asked me before the Manure game if I was worried about us going down my answer would have been no as i've said before. Two games later and 2 defeats against the best 2 sides in the country doesn't change that. It's the next 4 that will indicate if i'm right or not, especially Reading, Stoke and QPR.
Fingers crossed. I hope we get those wins and never have to worry about this stuff again. We have used up a lot of our margin for error though.
Everything crossed, otherwise the Samaritans will be on speed dial!
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Villa are desperate for a midfield enforcer. We are so lightweight in there. And as good a player as Clark is, I think we are fairly desperate for an experienced centre back next to Vlaar, not Dunne though, someone half decent.
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We are so not going down. Mid table is where we end up. Our home form will come good.
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Well Match of the Day was truly cringeworthy. Lineker will need some mouthwash to get rid of the taste of Kompany's arsehole.
First time i've ever seen rimming on BBC.
As well as 'Onest 'Arry as good as saying he'd take the QPR job. What a wonderful unbiased programme it is.
This. Every other dubious penalty decision I can recall on MOTD has been analysed. This one wasn't even dubious it was just plain wrong.Except when it goes against Villa and one of Citeh's players is in the studio.
God it makes me utterly sick. Another surprise from Lambert in his post-match interveiw "we go again next week". I think we all know where we're going this season....
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Another surprise from Lambert in his post-match interveiw "we go again next week".
Urgh, that's already up there with "me babbies" in the oft-repeated, meaningless drivel stakes.
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Didn't expect anything today (or last week), its just the nature of the collapse (not the first time) that is hard to take.
I don't have the overwhelming sense of impending doom that I had last season but its impossible not to be concerned. The next four games and January will be decisive.
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We are so not going down. Mid table is where we end up. Our home form will come good.
This and as said earlier, we had to contend with the linesman today... we will be ok
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I really would worry having you on my team; your heads drop and you'd drag the team down.
Spoken like a true team player.
I'm not sure if you're actually making a point.
Mine still stands.
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We are so not going down. Mid table is where we end up. Our home form will come good.
This and as said earlier, we had to contend with the linesman today... we will be ok
Today's match in isolation isn't the problem, it's all the others that have led us to the point where we've got 9 points from 12 games. I can't see anything that points to us being OK. We're conceding too many goals and not scoring enough, and our midfield is shite.
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Relegation 2012-2013
Southampton 4/6
QPR 8/11
Reading 4/5
Norwich 9/5
Aston Villa 15/8
Wigan Athletic 9/4
the bookies seem to think we will be okay
and there isnt too many poor bookies walking about
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MOTD - that was a fucking shameful, "dodgy penalty but easy result" - what a shower of arse licking bastards.
With each passing season I get more and more disillusioned with football, I can guarantee there will be no headlines or reprocutions because of that outrageous decision today because it was only Aston Villa.
They forget that football relies on competition and fairness, both of which, like society in general, are being slowly removed to ensure the 'elite' stay in their rightful place.
As someone once said 'tax is only for the small people'.
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I really would worry having you on my team; your heads drop and you'd drag the team down.
Spoken like a true team player.
I'm not sure if you're actually making a point.
Mine still stands.
As Dave Woodhall used to say (but doesn't seem to any more): "If in doubt, blame the supporters."
Your post appeared to be bemoaning the lack of togetherness while simultaneously disparaging fans who have the temerity to be aggrieved after a 5-0 defeat. Bizarre.
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Risso. We have agreed on so much over the last four years. But I think this manager can take us up the table this season.
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Risso. We have agreed on so much over the last four years. But I think this manager can take us up the table this season.
Well, he's doing a crap job so far. We started badly, and we're getting worse.
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As Dave Woodhall used to say (but doesn't seem to any more): "If in doubt, blame the supporters."
Your post appeared to be bemoaning the lack of togetherness while simultaneously disparaging fans who have the temerity to be aggrieved after a 5-0 defeat. Bizarre.
As I've said before, I made that comment at different times, in different circumstances, and certainly not when failing to run around screaming that the end is nigh is perceived in some quarters to be a crime.
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Thank god i turned that shite off at 2-0. I've just woke up and came here, 5 fecking 0 is a disgrace i dislike all these players bar Benteke.
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When will you realise that this running around end of nigh accusation against those of us who won't conform is in itself an overreaction to some of us. I don't want to be right, I don't want us in the position we are in, I don't want these kids that we have bought to fail, I don't want us losing every week and getting whipped in quite a few of those games. But the facts are the facts, the management of the club over the last 3 or so years has bought us to the brink of Premier League survival or not. From 4 years ago almost to the month holding onto 4th place after a draw against the Arse. And worse still - 14 points, yes 4 wins and 2 draws behind West Bromwich fucking Albion. I think we have a right to be concerned.
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MOTD - that was a fucking shameful, "dodgy penalty but easy result" - what a shower of arse licking bastards.
With each passing season I get more and more disuillusioned with football, I can guarantee there will be no headlines or reprocutions because of that outrageous decision today because it was only Aston Villa.
They forget that football relies on competition and fairness, both of which, like society in general, are being slowly removed to ensure the 'elite' stay in their rightful place.
As someone once said 'tax is only for the small people'.
Football is all about money.Has been since the start of the premier league.Its not like we haven't had enough time to get used to it.
Go on the Manure website and have a look at the investments part of it.Fuck all to do with football.
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Risso. We have agreed on so much over the last four years. But I think this manager can take us up the table this season.
Well, he's doing a crap job so far. We started badly, and we're getting worse.
I think we should just sack him. He's had 12 league games and it clearly isn't working out... ::)
The team are taking time to settle and there have been signs of improvement. We've completely changed tactics from last year, brought in half a new team and the more games these lads play together in the PL the better they'll get. I don't agree we've got worse, we're just inconsistent.
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When will you realise that this running around end of nigh accusation against those of us who won't conform is in itself an overreaction to some of us. I don't want to be right, I don't want us in the position we are in, I don't want these kids that we have bought to fail, I don't want us losing every week and getting whipped in quite a few of those games. But the facts are the facts, the management of the club over the last 3 or so years has bought us to the brink of Premier League survival or not. From 4 years ago almost to the month holding onto 4th place after a draw against the Arse. And worse still - 14 points, yes 4 wins and 2 draws behind West Bromwich fucking Albion. I think we have a right to be concerned.
You can say what you like but I'm getting a bit tired of the idea that anyone not conforming to the mantra of Woe Is Us is some kind of lesser supporter. I'm also pissed off with glib phrases such as "those of us who won't conform" as though you're a persecuted minority.
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When will you realise that this running around end of nigh accusation against those of us who won't conform is in itself an overreaction to some of us. I don't want to be right, I don't want us in the position we are in, I don't want these kids that we have bought to fail, I don't want us losing every week and getting whipped in quite a few of those games. But the facts are the facts, the management of the club over the last 3 or so years has bought us to the brink of Premier League survival or not. From 4 years ago almost to the month holding onto 4th place after a draw against the Arse. And worse still - 14 points, yes 4 wins and 2 draws behind West Bromwich fucking Albion. I think we have a right to be concerned.
You can say what you like but I'm getting a bit tired of the idea that anyone not conforming to the mantra of Woe Is Us is some kind of lesser supporter.
David, I am not saying anything of the sort. In actual fact, I am feeling like the one who is persecuted for my views not you, yours.
I know it's your pet hate so I will choose my words carefully here because believe it or not I hate the bastards as much as you. But if you look at the way them Smethwick lot have been managed/owned over the last few years compared to us, then surely you must concede there have been some very bad decisions made at the top in recent times.
I have to laugh, I posted my comments before I saw your updated post!
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As I've said before, I made that comment at different times, in different circumstances, and certainly not when failing to run around screaming that the end is nigh is perceived in some quarters to be a crime.
No, I understand it doesn't suit you to say it these days Dave.
But to get back to Drummond's point, it appears that despondency at our current situation is the crime. It's actually Drummond who appears to be playing the better fan than you card with all that bollocks.
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When will you realise that this running around end of nigh accusation against those of us who won't conform is in itself an overreaction to some of us. I don't want to be right, I don't want us in the position we are in, I don't want these kids that we have bought to fail, I don't want us losing every week and getting whipped in quite a few of those games. But the facts are the facts, the management of the club over the last 3 or so years has bought us to the brink of Premier League survival or not. From 4 years ago almost to the month holding onto 4th place after a draw against the Arse. And worse still - 14 points, yes 4 wins and 2 draws behind West Bromwich fucking Albion. I think we have a right to be concerned.
You can say what you like but I'm getting a bit tired of the idea that anyone not conforming to the mantra of Woe Is Us is some kind of lesser supporter.
David, I am not saying anything of the sort. In actual fact, I am feeling like the one who is persecuted for my views not you, yours.
I know it's your pet hate so I will choose my words carefully here because believe it or not I hate the bastards as much as you. But if you look at the way them Smethwick lot have been managed/owned over the last few years compared to us, then surely you must concede there have been some very bad decisions made at the top in recent times.
How the fuck are you being persecuted? You haven't been prevented from saying what you want, you haven't been warned about anything. I've stated many times that we've made some cock-ups. I also think that the Albion have been managed very well in recent years and part of the reason is that they've stuck to a plan. They may have stumbled across it in the beginning but they've kept to it and part of it has been the patience of everyone at the club.
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As I've said before, I made that comment at different times, in different circumstances, and certainly not when failing to run around screaming that the end is nigh is perceived in some quarters to be a crime.
No, I understand it doesn't suit you to say it these days Dave.
But to get back to Drummond's point, it appears that despondency at our current situation is the crime. It's actually Drummond who appears to be playing the better fan than you card with all that bollocks.
Come on then, why "doesn't it suit me"? This I've got to hear.
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Come on then, why "doesn't it suit me"? This I've got to hear.
Evidently because these are "different times, different circumstances." Only you can tell us why.
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It's persecution by stealth. I am refusing to get into it anymore. Can I just repeat by the way that I don't want the manager to be sacked, I want him to be properly backed by a completely spineless and disinterested billionaire, (still 224th richest American) owner. Is that too much to ask?
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But I do want the manager to pick Bent!
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He's injured. And what does properly backed mean?
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It's persecution by stealth. I am refusing to get into it anymore. Can I just repeat by the way that I don't want the manager to be sacked, I want him to be properly backed by a completely spineless and disinterested billionaire, (still 224th richest American) owner. Is that too much to ask?
Top 6 in the net spend last summer, after sacking a universally unpopular manager, acknowledging his cock up, and appointing the man the vast majority of Villa fans wanted clearly not enough to show interest or support then.
Randy has made some terrific cock ups but people love to re-write the backing he has given the club continuously to suit the shit owner doesn't care argument, which is simply not true.
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Three seasons of relegation struggle though, tells its own story.
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Top 6 in the net spend last summer, after sacking a universally unpopular manager, acknowledging his cock up, and appointing the man the vast majority of Villa fans wanted clearly not enough to show interest or support then.
That was a solution to a problem that should never have existed in the first place.
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Oh I agree and I am sure he will. Its just expensive players may not have time to gel and save us.
I am going to ask something now, dont get mad, just asking it.
I dont recall McLeish getting us actually in the relegation zone last season did he?
McLeish was a disaster for Villa, but I don't care what anyone says, this season is worse!
Houllier had us in the relegation zone the season before but of course we finished ninth.
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Oh I agree and I am sure he will. Its just expensive players may not have time to gel and save us.
I am going to ask something now, dont get mad, just asking it.
I dont recall McLeish getting us actually in the relegation zone last season did he?
McLeish was a disaster for Villa, but I don't care what anyone says, this season is worse!
Houllier had us in the relegation zone the season before but of course we finished ninth.
Is that right? Well that makes me feel a tad better for sure. I didnt remember that.
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Three seasons of relegation struggle though, tells its own story.
More than one season of "relegation struggle" is almost always followed by...relegation. Oh dear.
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Disapointing to lose so heavily.
This time last season we had more points on the board under Mcleish but personally I'm far happier and optimistic with Lambert as the boss, since we're actually trying to win games and having shots on goal during a game.
The fixture list has not been kind to us but I'mconfident the results will come good soon.
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With regards the lino's performance and bribery/corruption, when was the last time a match offical was sentenced to championship duty for giving a bad decision in, say, a match between the likes of Fulham and Wigan?
If the decisions yesterday had gone against ManU rather than us, a) Fergie would be gobbing off for days about it b) SSN would wheel out any number of experts saying how bad the linesman's performance was c) It would be a while before the linesman officiated at the top level again.
It is no longer the case that officials are worried about losing 'top matches'. The result of making officials highly paid is that it hits them in the pocket if they piss off the wrong people.
Witness last week when we went 2-0 up. Ferguson wanted the tempo of the game to remain high. He immediately got on the referee's case with the watch pointing act. The referee was then straight in the face of Guzan at the very next goal kick about time wasting. The commentators actually talked in affectionate terms about what was going on. Late in the game with ManU 3-2 up their goalkeeper seemed to be at liberty to read a few chapters of War and Peace before taking a free kick.
Geoff Winter openly said a few years ago that if he booked too many of the wrong players someone would have a word in his ear. It will be interesting to see how much comment/aitime is devoted to the linesman's performance on Saturday.
I cannot believe that clubs are bribing officials as such. It is far more subtle than that.
Whether this all constitutes corruption depends upon how you look at it. The fact remains that people have gone to prison in Italy in part for doing things that are seemingly accepted as the prerogative of certain managers in this country.
It was earlier in the match thread that we have become paying customers rather than supporters. That happened years ago. It feels as if we are fast becoming extras in a production that makes a lot of money for broadcasters and the Premier League alike.
As they are the de facto rulers of the game I don't see anything changing soon.
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I agree that the poor penalty decision is a red herring. We lost 5-0 and a bad pen decision is just life, get over it.
If we use cricket as a parallel, when a top order batsman gets a shocking LBW decision, you don't find the captain blaming it for a subsequent batting order collapse. It's really pretty pathetic that a 5-0 drubbing is attributed to the ref, it didn't help but we had 89 other minutes to prevent a 5 goal humping.
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It's really pretty pathetic that a 5-0 drubbing is attributed to the ref, it didn't help but we had 89 other minutes to prevent a 5 goal humping.
What rubbish. You make it sound like Man City were awarded a penalty in the first minute then we had the rest of the game to get back into it,
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Having seen the highlights, what concerned me was the poor defending from the full backs. Last week, Lowton allowed Hernandez the space for two of his three goals. Yesterday it was Stevens who seemed to give Tevez and Aguerro all the time in the world on the far post for two of the five goals.
As Norwich showed, get the defending right and the rest looks after itself.
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It's really pretty pathetic that a 5-0 drubbing is attributed to the ref, it didn't help but we had 89 other minutes to prevent a 5 goal humping.
What rubbish. You make it sound like Man City were awarded a penalty in the first minute then we had the rest of the game to get back into it,
Sorry for the confusion. To clarify, we'd already had 53 minutes to score before the penalty and then had a further 36 after it. The penalty gave Man City one goal, take one away from five and that gives you four. In summary then, if we we were to pretend the penalty didn't happen, we still lost 4-0 and I regard that as a pretty severe pasting.
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To be honest from watching this last night, though I went home at 4-0, I think this was less a case of our players playing badly. Everyone gave it their all but the sad fact was, we're mostly a championship side going up against the premier league champions. I thought we were just outclassed unfortunately. City probably weren't even at their very best either.
You look at our midfield and it's just not good enough. The defence has too many weak leaks and not a single standout defender. Generally in transfer terms you get what you pay for. Sometimes a cheap player proves a well scouted bargain. Sometimes there are expensive flops, but general you'd have to say that the higher the fee, the better the player. Ron Vlaar is okay. He's doing alright but he is what he is and that's a defender who's 3.7 million (or whatever the fee was). What we need is a really decent CB that will set us back at least 10 million.
Same goes for our fullback areas and midfield. If we want to even be competing in the top 10 again, barring some exceptional management and scouting (don't think we have that) we have to outlay about 30 million in the next couple of windows to A- survive this season and B- not be in this position another season.
What most annoyed me yesterday was the piss poor officiating. I mean we're crap. We caught City on a day they were up for it, not at their best, but up for it, and the last frigging thing we need is the referee and lino to be bias towards City and make their simple task even simpler.
Our lack of experience is also telling, particularly at the back. Like I say, Ron Vlaar is an okay player. He's a Carlos level player. He'll never be Mellberg or Laursen IMO. He'd be more effective if we had a really good defender alongside him. Someone who can hold a backline together. It's too much to ask from Vlaar, new to this league, to be the lynchpin in a backline made up of kids, who possibly, probably, won't make it at this level in the long run.
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But if you look at the way them Smethwick lot have been managed/owned over the last few years compared to us, then surely you must concede there have been some very bad decisions made at the top in recent times.
What would you/anyone say are the key differences between WBA's boards approach and ours over the last few years?
- more logical selection of managers
- Having a director of football
- excellent scouting of players from abroad
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It's really pretty pathetic that a 5-0 drubbing is attributed to the ref, it didn't help but we had 89 other minutes to prevent a 5 goal humping.
What rubbish. You make it sound like Man City were awarded a penalty in the first minute then we had the rest of the game to get back into it,
Sorry for the confusion. To clarify, we'd already had 53 minutes to score before the penalty and then had a further 36 after it. The penalty gave Man City one goal, take one away from five and that gives you four. In summary then, if we we were to pretend the penalty didn't happen, we still lost 4-0 and I regard that as a pretty severe pasting.
No doubt the penalty was a terrible decision but we were poor yesterday and there were too many players who had off days , it was very disappointing after such a positive encouraging display against utd .
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Having seen the highlights, what concerned me was the poor defending from the full backs. Last week, Lowton allowed Hernandez the space for two of his three goals. Yesterday it was Stevens who seemed to give Tevez and Aguerro all the time in the world on the far post for two of the five goals.
As Norwich showed, get the defending right and the rest looks after itself.
watch it a bit closer, stevens played on hernandez for the first, yes lowton may have been closer for the second but it was a deflected goal and it was stevens who never got near him for the third. stevens aint good enough, needs to be left out and stay left out!
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But if you look at the way them Smethwick lot have been managed/owned over the last few years compared to us, then surely you must concede there have been some very bad decisions made at the top in recent times.
What would you/anyone say are the key differences between WBA's boards approach and ours over the last few years?
- more logical selection of managers
- Having a director of football
- excellent scouting of players from abroad
Better management at board level and on the pitch , Albion have spent far less than us and bought better players who have developed into a decent team whereas we have wasted millions, bought poorly and lack leadership at the helm with a chairman and CEO who have little football experience.
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It's really pretty pathetic that a 5-0 drubbing is attributed to the ref, it didn't help but we had 89 other minutes to prevent a 5 goal humping.
What rubbish. You make it sound like Man City were awarded a penalty in the first minute then we had the rest of the game to get back into it,
Sorry for the confusion. To clarify, we'd already had 53 minutes to score before the penalty and then had a further 36 after it. The penalty gave Man City one goal, take one away from five and that gives you four. In summary then, if we we were to pretend the penalty didn't happen, we still lost 4-0 and I regard that as a pretty severe pasting.
We were already a goal down when they got awarded their first pen. The 2nd pen was a bit harsh as well, which then put them 3-0 up with over half hour to go. No we did'nt play well and the defending at times was woeful but like I said yesterday, going to places like that is hard enough without them getting generous penalties to help them.
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What worries me is how bad the defending is, the whole team give the opposition time and space and don't close down.
It's worse watching Norwich easily hold on to a one nil win against Man U.
We need Dunne back ASAP, Clark is not a premier league centre half.
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So, do we need to find someone to blame, or suggest solutions?
Do we think the end is nigh, or is there a future?
Should we whinge and moan, or try and see the positives?
At the beginning of the season we should never have expected to be world beaters, we would have hoped to not be relegation candidates.
We're in transition, we've a young squad, we're inconsistent, not just from game to game but during them too. It's to be expected.
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So, do we need to find someone to blame, or suggest solutions?
Do we think the end is nigh, or is there a future?
Should we whinge and moan, or try and see the positives?
At the beginning of the season we should never have expected to be world beaters, we would have hoped to not be relegation candidates.
We're in transition, we've a young squad, we're inconsistent, not just from game to game but during them too. It's to be expected.
Not sure 3 wins in 30 league games is inconsistent , maybe 10 wins , 10 defeats and. 10 draws could be classed as inconsistent but our form over the last year has been poor and results have been dreadful.
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We're in transition, we've a young squad, we're inconsistent, not just from game to game but during them too. It's to be expected.
Well we've been in transition now for 3 years. Looking at the way the squad has been shaped over those the years the only conclusion i can see is that the transition is to become a Championship football club.
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its definitely a struggle this season, but its no where near as bad as under TSM, i know if you look a t the league position it seems that way at the moment but under mcliesh there was no hope, there is plenty of supporters who do believe in Lambert and what he is trying to do.
we have just played Man Utd and Man City, no one expected to win and we played well against Utd and deserved something from the game, the previous two game we picked up points, so the 'we just cant win games' point seems to be forgetting the away win against Sunderland only a 3 games ago,
there are two very distinct groups forming on here,
one where the club has been nosediving for the last 3 seasons and wont stop untill we hit the championship, and the other where the board have made mistakes but in Lambert we have a manager who can turn things around given time and bring some good times back.
i'm firmly in the latter, i do believe in Lambert, and i say that as one of the posters who wasnt to keen on him and certainly wasnt my first choice, but i think he has the team playing better football bringing in and playing young players that will keep us up
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
You forgot that teams that get relegated have supposed fans who moan and boo rather than getting behind the team exuding a negative outlook.
Having a positive outlook means jacks hit when the team loses practically every week. It's called delusion.
we dont lose every week, we just lost against the two manchester clubs, what wrer you expecting ?
the game before that we won
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Three seasons of relegation struggle though, tells its own story.
More than one season of "relegation struggle" is almost always followed by...relegation. Oh dear.
Yes, I mean look what happened to Wigan, Fulham, Everton, Stoke....................
All are teams that have struggled and are still in the Premier League.
We've had a really bad season and we changed the manager. Things aren't going to change straight away, it will take time. There are definitely areas that need improving but writing us off for relegation after 12 games is a bit previous.
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I believe lambert is the right man for the job but he has a crucial transfer window in January and I hope that the owner backs him fully financially in the same way he backed houllier - I'm not convinced however that randy still has the passion and ambition for the club that he once had , we will need quality and experience in January and that will cost decent money.
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I believe lambert is the right man for the job but he has a crucial transfer window in January and I hope that the owner backs him fully financially in the same way he backed houllier - I'm not convinced however that randy still has the passion and ambition for the club that he once had , we will need quality and experience in January and that will cost decent money.
weve got plenty of experience in the squad, Hutton, N'zog, Warnock, Bent, Dunne to come back soon,
unfortunatly its this experience thats not good enough, the kids are better, if we stick with them with maybe one or two additions, i think we will be OK,
if you are relying on a load of new players in the new year to get us out of trouble i fear thats a plan for costly disaster,
the kids we have are better than championship players, most are good enough for the prem, and will prove it by the seasons end IMO.
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Having endured it at the Etihad, I went out - and then endured it again on MOTD. The thing that insensed me second time round was not the post-penalties capitulation, but Linekar's passing reference to the first penalty and then simply a comedic chat with the Citeh captain. I know the programme lost all objectivity and balance years ago, but it was an outrageous decison that needed highlighting. All the so-called "experts" have got their own club allegiences, but there is no place in the studio for a protagonist in one the afternoon's games - and especially one that was the beneficiary the day's most controversial decisions.
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
You forgot that teams that get relegated have supposed fans who moan and boo rather than getting behind the team exuding a negative outlook.
Having a positive outlook means jacks hit when the team loses practically every week. It's called delusion.
we dont lose every week, we just lost against the two manchester clubs, what wrer you expecting ?
the game before that we won
Yes, for the second time this season. So like he said, 'practically' every week.
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
You forgot that teams that get relegated have supposed fans who moan and boo rather than getting behind the team exuding a negative outlook.
Having a positive outlook means jacks hit when the team loses practically every week. It's called delusion.
we dont lose every week, we just lost against the two manchester clubs, what wrer you expecting ?
the game before that we won
Yes, for the second time this season. So like he said, 'practically' every week.
yes but we were starting to pick up points against the teams where we needed to, i think it was an unbeaten run of 3 including the cup game, then Man U and Man City where we lost, whats not to say we pick up again where we left of before the mancs
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
You forgot that teams that get relegated have supposed fans who moan and boo rather than getting behind the team exuding a negative outlook.
Having a positive outlook means jacks hit when the team loses practically every week. It's called delusion.
we dont lose every week, we just lost against the two manchester clubs, what wrer you expecting ?
the game before that we won
No offence John, but this really pisses me off.
Are you saying we should expect to lose to Manchester? I suppose that goes for Liverpool, Chelsea arsenal as well ?
Which means we should only look to our results against is based on our Wigan, Norwich, QPR, Reading etc?
We may as well look forward to the championship then.
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The teams that get relegated lose heavily against superior opposition. We have done that against Everton and Man city.
The teams that get relegated often lose a game after leading and playing well for a short spell. We did that against Man U and Southampton.
The teams that get relegated often lose games by not being able to response once they fall behind. We did that against W Ham, Spurs and Fulham and all other defeats so far.
The teams that get relegated are incapable of winning winable home games. We did that against W Brom and Norwich.
Would you bet against us?
You forgot that teams that get relegated have supposed fans who moan and boo rather than getting behind the team exuding a negative outlook.
Having a positive outlook means jacks hit when the team loses practically every week. It's called delusion.
we dont lose every week, we just lost against the two manchester clubs, what wrer you expecting ?
the game before that we won
No offence John, but this really pisses me off.
Are you saying we should expect to lose to Manchester? I suppose that goes for Liverpool, Chelsea arsenal as well ?
Which means we should only look to our results against is based on our Wigan, Norwich, QPR, Reading etc?
We may as well look forward to the championship then.
we nearly beat Man Utd,
but when you look at the difference in the squads and the cost its always going to be difficult, we cant judge ourselves at the moment on our results against them, we have to look at gaining points elsewhere, which we were doing prior to the two money clubs
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I believe lambert is the right man for the job but he has a crucial transfer window in January and I hope that the owner backs him fully financially in the same way he backed houllier - I'm not convinced however that randy still has the passion and ambition for the club that he once had , we will need quality and experience in January and that will cost decent money.
weve got plenty of experience in the squad, Hutton, N'zog, Warnock, Bent, Dunne to come back soon,
unfortunatly its this experience thats not good enough, the kids are better, if we stick with them with maybe one or two additions, i think we will be OK,
if you are relying on a load of new players in the new year to get us out of trouble i fear thats a plan for costly disaster,
the kids we have are better than championship players, most are good enough for the prem, and will prove it by the seasons end IMO.
Not expecting a shedloads of new players but that if we found two or 3 quality players that lambert wants then I hope randy will back him even if those players are £20m in total.
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We probably have the worst most inexperienced defence in the league, the most toothless attack (10 goals in 12 games is atrocious) and the least creative midfield. It needs to change & fast.
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yes but we were starting to pick up points against the teams where we needed to, i think it was an unbeaten run of 3 including the cup game, then Man U and Man City where we lost, whats not to say we pick up again where we left of before the mancs
The four league games before the two recent games were a home draw to Norwich, a win against Sunderland, and defeats to Fulham and Spurs. 4 points from 12, which is EXACTLY the same ratio as the 9 points from 36 we've got for the season. It just isn't even close to being good enough, and given that we have Arsenal next and Reading have Wigan, we could be cut adrift before we even play them.
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yes but we were starting to pick up points against the teams where we needed to, i think it was an unbeaten run of 3 including the cup game, then Man U and Man City where we lost, whats not to say we pick up again where we left of before the mancs
The four league games before the two recent games were a home draw to Norwich, a win against Sunderland, and defeats to Fulham and Spurs. 4 points from 12, which is EXACTLY the same ratio as the 9 points from 36 we've got for the season. It just isn't even close to being good enough, and given that we have Arsenal next and Reading have Wigan, we could be cut adrift before we even play them.
True , 4 points from the last 18 is not exactly a sign that we are close to turning the corner , the next 4 games are so very vital, reading , qpr and stoke and in that group of teams around us and we need to take points against them.
Southampton looked very good yesterday and Norwich are on an inspired run too, we must not get cut adrift in the bottom 3.
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yes but we were starting to pick up points against the teams where we needed to, i think it was an unbeaten run of 3 including the cup game, then Man U and Man City where we lost, whats not to say we pick up again where we left of before the mancs
The four league games before the two recent games were a home draw to Norwich, a win against Sunderland, and defeats to Fulham and Spurs. 4 points from 12, which is EXACTLY the same ratio as the 9 points from 36 we've got for the season. It just isn't even close to being good enough, and given that we have Arsenal next and Reading have Wigan, we could be cut adrift before we even play them.
True , 4 points from the last 18 is not exactly a sign that we are close to turning the corner , the next 4 games are so very vital, reading , qpr and stoke and in that group of teams around us and we need to take points against them.
Southampton looked very good yesterday and Norwich are on an inspired run too, we must not get cut adrift in the bottom 3.
I think 5 points form the next 4 games is the minimum we have to get.
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Having endured it at the Etihad, I went out - and then endured it again on MOTD. The thing that insensed me second time round was not the post-penalties capitulation, but Linekar's passing reference to the first penalty and then simply a comedic chat with the Citeh captain. I know the programme lost all objectivity and balance years ago, but it was an outrageous decison that needed highlighting. All the so-called "experts" have got their own club allegiences, but there is no place in the studio for a protagonist in one the afternoon's games - and especially one that was the beneficiary the day's most controversial decisions.
That's because the controversial decision went for the big team. It it was the other way around much more would have been said about the diabolical linesman.
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With regards the lino's performance and bribery/corruption, when was the last time a match offical was sentenced to championship duty for giving a bad decision in, say, a match between the likes of Fulham and Wigan?
If the decisions yesterday had gone against ManU rather than us, a) Fergie would be gobbing off for days about it b) SSN would wheel out any number of experts saying how bad the linesman's performance was c) It would be a while before the linesman officiated at the top level again.
It is no longer the case that officials are worried about losing 'top matches'. The result of making officials highly paid is that it hits them in the pocket if they piss off the wrong people.
Witness last week when we went 2-0 up. Ferguson wanted the tempo of the game to remain high. He immediately got on the referee's case with the watch pointing act. The referee was then straight in the face of Guzan at the very next goal kick about time wasting. The commentators actually talked in affectionate terms about what was going on. Late in the game with ManU 3-2 up their goalkeeper seemed to be at liberty to read a few chapters of War and Peace before taking a free kick.
Geoff Winter openly said a few years ago that if he booked too many of the wrong players someone would have a word in his ear. It will be interesting to see how much comment/aitime is devoted to the linesman's performance on Saturday.
I cannot believe that clubs are bribing officials as such. It is far more subtle than that.
Whether this all constitutes corruption depends upon how you look at it. The fact remains that people have gone to prison in Italy in part for doing things that are seemingly accepted as the prerogative of certain managers in this country.
It was earlier in the match thread that we have become paying customers rather than supporters. That happened years ago. It feels as if we are fast becoming extras in a production that makes a lot of money for broadcasters and the Premier League alike.
As they are the de facto rulers of the game I don't see anything changing soon.
Interesting points Steve, and even "manipulation" such as a word in the ear is clear corruption, because it's undue influence. And let's not forget the FA have some vested interests - the bigger richer clubs are relied upon to provide the bulk of the England team and need to be kept sweet. Sky also need to be kept sweet by making sure all the big name players are available as often as possible for super wankfest Sunday. Too many yellow cards doesn't facilitate that. The officials themselves may not be corrupt per se but it would be utterly naive to suppose that the system in which they operate doesn't have it's darker elements. And that means they are under tremendous pressure to "cooperate" by "selling the product".
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Indeed. It doesn't have to involve money changing hands to be corrupt.
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Are we still banging on about that bad decision? What are the excuses for all the other games we've failed to win?
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The standard default now seems to be
'We're not as bad as we were under McLeish.'
Whoopey-do!
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Our prestige has taken such a hammering. That's the thing about the coming window, it's not like 06/07. Who can we attract into the squad?
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The standard default now seems to be
'We're not as bad as we were under McLeish.'
Whoopey-do!
Even though we're clearly worse. The football is maybe marginally better, but the results are far worse, so overall it's hard to argue that Lambert is cutting the mustard.
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I saw a Southampton mate last night who was obviously ecstatic.
He reckons QPR are the worst team he has seen this season and that their fans are now baying for a new manager, doubtless just before we play them.
After them, we are by far the worst team he has seen this season. He honestly reckons they will finish above us,. Worryingly he reckons they will finish 18th.
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The standard default now seems to be
'We're not as bad as we were under McLeish.'
Whoopey-do!
Even though we're clearly worse. The football is maybe marginally better, but the results are far worse, so overall it's hard to argue that Lambert is cutting the mustard.
Ah well, 'we go again next week.'
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Are we still banging on about that bad decision? What are the excuses for all the other games we've failed to win?
Wasn't aware this was the 'every other game' post-match thread.
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What other club has sold all their best players within three years without adequate replacement? we are poor all over the park, defence inexperienced with a kid at left back that needs a lot longer in the reserves,midfield weak and lacking in creativity not up to prem standard and forwards there is just Benteke to offer a constant threat, this is not knocking the manager not even SAF could make this squad half decent.
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If we'd lost 1-0 and that penalty was the only goal then yes we could be furious we'd been robbed of a point.
But we lost 5-0, they had 70% possession, it was a non contest. Blaming the linesman is just stupid and lambert in his post match interview only talked about that one incident. I found that quite infuriating.
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What other club has sold all their best players within three years without adequate replacement? we are poor all over the park, defence inexperienced with a kid at left back that needs a lot longer in the reserves,midfield weak and lacking in creativity not up to prem standard and forwards there is just Benteke to offer a constant threat, this is not knocking the manager not even SAF could make this squad half decent.
Lambert chose to spend the money available to him how he did. To take a squad that even McLeish managed to keep up, spend £20m adding players to it, and then make it worse takes some doing. All this "well at least he's trying to play football" just doesn't wash either. Just about every other manager in the league would have a more positive approach than McLeish, but that doesn't mean they're good enough to keep us up. Lambert is doing an absolutely rotten job so far.
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Very depressing at moment once again I find myself looking at other clubs managers Houghton,Clark for instance and wonder how we ended up with a boss doing worse than them.
This time last season Lambert's Norwich only had one more win that us so hopefully we will follow the same route.
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What other club has sold all their best players within three years without adequate replacement? we are poor all over the park, defence inexperienced with a kid at left back that needs a lot longer in the reserves,midfield weak and lacking in creativity not up to prem standard and forwards there is just Benteke to offer a constant threat, this is not knocking the manager not even SAF could make this squad half decent.
Problem is half the squad he has bought
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Just looked at Norwich results from last season..not awe inspiring a draw with Arsenal and beating Spurs were best scalps.Beat 6-1 but Man City at home ,wins were against QPR ,Bolton ,Swansea Wolves...
Starting to worry now..
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
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I haven't read too much of this thread because it is too depressing but here is my fourteen pence worth:
We matched them first half with two very good banks of four stopping them playing their little passes around the box. I thought Ireland, Bannan and Vlaar were all excellent in that period and we deserved to be ahead. They scored a pretty jammy goal just before half time and then inexplicably, Lambert changed the formation at half time, stuck Gabby up front and gave Maicon the freedom of Manchester. It invited pressure which inadvertently led to the 2nd goal. Having said that, it was the worst penalty decision I can remember against us - absolutely shocking. We have a young team and we visibly lost our heads after the penalty, particularly Weimann, Bannan and Stevens. We desperately needed a Petrov to calm everyone down during that period but in the space of ten minutes we went from being in the game to a damn good pasting.
Football smells of poo.
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
This is not the season to be relegated. The new Sky/BT deal from 2013-14 for the next 3 years is worth over £3 billion - which dwarfs the current £1.78 Billion for the last 3 years. That's an increase of a staggering 70%. If we go down this season it will be very difficult to compete if we return after one season - the other Prem clubs will have had one season with an increased 70% budget which means they will snap up all the best players on even bigger wages. Our chairman just doesn't seem that bothered anymore - failing to attend many matches and saying nothing to rally the troops. No wonder the Browns were glad to see the back of him.
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Or Ireland
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
Of course not. That's why they're out of the team and soon to be out of the club.
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
Of course not. That's why they're out of the team and soon to be out of the club.
Given lost his place to Guzan and Bent i believe is injured. Besides i doubt the likes of Vlaar, KEA and Holman took pay cuts to come over here.
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
Of course not. That's why they're out of the team and soon to be out of the club.
Given lost his place to Guzan and Bent i believe is injured. Besides i doubt the likes of Vlaar, KEA and Holman took pay cuts to come over here.
I'm sure they didn't take pay cuts but I'm damn sure there not on as much as Cueller was on. They fit into our new relatively low wage structure. Which is peanuts compared to what it was a couple of years ago.
And as I said, you pay peanuts and you get monkeys, which is one of the reasons we find ourselves in the relegation zone. Cheers Randy, you're a genius!
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
Of course not. That's why they're out of the team and soon to be out of the club.
Given lost his place to Guzan and Bent i believe is injured. Besides i doubt the likes of Vlaar, KEA and Holman took pay cuts to come over here.
I'm sure they didn't take pay cuts but I'm damn sure there not on as much as Cueller was on. They fit into our new relatively low wage structure. Which is peanuts compared to what it was a couple of years ago.
And as I said, you pay peanuts and you get monkeys, which is one of the reasons we find ourselves in the relegation zone. Cheers Randy, you're a genius!
How much do you think QPR players are getting paid ?
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I'm not sure what the club pays the players but it's obviously enough for us to be able to sign Dutch and Belgian internationals. The wage bill needed to be cut at the end of the day. We moaned that the likes of Beye were earning a fortune. Do we really want to go back down that road?
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
Of course not. That's why they're out of the team and soon to be out of the club.
Given lost his place to Guzan and Bent i believe is injured. Besides i doubt the likes of Vlaar, KEA and Holman took pay cuts to come over here.
I'm sure they didn't take pay cuts but I'm damn sure there not on as much as Cueller was on. They fit into our new relatively low wage structure. Which is peanuts compared to what it was a couple of years ago.
And as I said, you pay peanuts and you get monkeys, which is one of the reasons we find ourselves in the relegation zone. Cheers Randy, you're a genius!
How much do you think QPR players are getting paid ?
No idea about QPR, and I couldn't care less. The reason we're in the relegation zone though is because we've sold our best players and replaced them with cheap foreigners and lower league rubbish. That's what you get with extreme cost cutting.
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Our chairman just doesn't seem that bothered anymore - failing to attend many matches and saying nothing to rally the troops. No wonder the Browns were glad to see the back of him.
Our Chairman couldn't rally piss into a bucket, he's got all the personality of an empty crisp packet.
When he does open his gob, it's something cringeworthy, like the Ferguson reference for McCatpiss.
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I'm not sure what the club pays the players but it's obviously enough for us to be able to sign Dutch and Belgian internationals. The wage bill needed to be cut at the end of the day. We moaned that the likes of Beye were earning a fortune. Do we really want to go back down that road?
If only there were some middle ground between having highly paid journeymen, and bargain bin lower league players.
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Wheres an Arab Billionaire when you need one?.
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Why does it still hurt so much when we lose in that manner?
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Why does it still hurt so much when we lose in that manner?
Because it's humiliating.
And the humiliations have come thick and fast over the last couple of years.
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Wheres an Arab Billionaire when you need one?.
Qatar.
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Wheres an Arab Billionaire when you need one?.
Qatar.
Best take some Covona for that.
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So after Aresenal we face Reading and then QPR. I can't see us getting much from December's fixtures with Stoke, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs but Wigan at home is, in theory, more winnable.
Reading, QPR and Wigan are now absolutely massive and if we can win two of them and and scrape something from the others, that should see us out of danger - for a while at least.
Then we're in the transfer window and maybe our improved position in January will make us a bit more attractive to experienced PL players who can ensure we don't end up in the shit again.
I'm just trying to be optimistic! Its so bloody hard though.
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I think in essence this season has been desperately poor overall. The only crumb of comfort I have is that with Lambert I believe there is hope and things can improve, whereas with Mcleish I knew they never would. That being said Lambert needs to sort it out quick and this team needs to start winning, and no matter how thin the squad is we should never be playing Albrighton.
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and no matter how thin the squad is we should never be playing Albrighton.
I agree.
Nowhere near good enough to play in the Premier. Get rid.
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Wheres an Arab Billionaire when you need one?.
Qatar.
Best take some Covona for that.
Thanks. Always makes me think of Ainsley, that. Speaking of which, where is Greg Nash these days?
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and no matter how thin the squad is we should never be playing Albrighton.
I agree.
Nowhere near good enough to play in the Premier. Get rid.
That's the thing, I take no pleasure in it but he's had enough opportunity now and hasn't developed at all. He is symptomatic of some of the youngsters who simply aren't good enough.
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I like Albrighton a lot, he's got it in him to be a really good player. He does seem to have lost his way a little though, which is a shame but i'd persevere with him.
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I like Albrighton a lot, he's got it in him to be a really good player. He does seem to have lost his way a little though, which is a shame but i'd persevere with him.
Not for me, poor now for the best part of 2 years , I've seen enough to suggest he will not cut the mustard at this level.
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I like Albrighton a lot, he's got it in him to be a really good player. He does seem to have lost his way a little though, which is a shame but i'd persevere with him.
Not for me, poor now for the best part of 2 years , I've seen enough to suggest he will not cut the mustard at this level.
I reckon he'd still fetch 2 or 3m so I wouldn't call him a failure by any stretch, however there comes a point where you have to decide whether to continue to invest in him or cash in as he'll soon be blocking the route to the squad for the next batch of yoofs.
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I like Albrighton a lot, he's got it in him to be a really good player. He does seem to have lost his way a little though, which is a shame but i'd persevere with him.
Not for me, poor now for the best part of 2 years , I've seen enough to suggest he will not cut the mustard at this level.
I reckon he'd still fetch 2 or 3m so I wouldn't call him a failure by any stretch, however there comes a point where you have to decide whether to continue to invest in him or cash in as he'll soon be blocking the route to the squad for the next batch of yoofs.
Agreed, I see more potential in Carruthers.
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I'd like to see him being brought on as sub in the next few games to see if he gets his confidence and form back. If he can, we've got a decent crosser of the ball which Beneteke could thrive on.
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Agree Albrighton seems to have lost his way now.From what little I've seen of Samir Carruthers he looks like he's got more promise in that position but I don't think he's even making the squad at the minute
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I'd rather have Carruthers as an option on the bench than Albrighton.
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I'd like to see him being brought on as sub in the next few games to see if he gets his confidence and form back. If he can, we've got a decent crosser of the ball which Beneteke could thrive on.
Indeed, it's certainly not a situation where he should be training with hutton but long term is he good enough? I actually think the real problem is Nzog. Albrighton is arguably performing his function as an able squad player, whereas based on wages and status Nzog should be one of our stars.
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I'd like to see him being brought on as sub in the next few games to see if he gets his confidence and form back. If he can, we've got a decent crosser of the ball which Beneteke could thrive on.
Indeed, it's certainly not a situation where he should be training with hutton but long term is he good enough? I actually think the real problem is Nzog. Albrighton is arguably performing his function as an able squad player, whereas based on wages and status Nzog should be one of our stars.
Wigan sold Nzog to us and replaced him with Moses, now starring for Chelsea, for whom Cahill is a great centre back and whom we replaced with Pub Player. It isn't all about budget. Shit judgement is also key.
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I'd rather have Carruthers as an option on the bench than Albrighton.
Carruthers looked really useful towards the end of last season, i'm surprised he's got nowhere near the subs bench so far though.
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I'd rather have Carruthers as an option on the bench than Albrighton.
Carruthers looked really useful towards the end of last season, i'm surprised he's got nowhere near the subs bench so far though.
Carruthers looked full of confidence too and was running at and taking on defenders, I would like to see him get a chance .
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The standard default now seems to be
'We're not as bad as we were under McLeish.'
Whoopey-do!
Even though we're clearly worse. The football is maybe marginally better, but the results are far worse, so overall it's hard to argue that Lambert is cutting the mustard.
No they aren't, compared to the same fixtures last year they are better.
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The standard default now seems to be
'We're not as bad as we were under McLeish.'
Whoopey-do!
Even though we're clearly worse. The football is maybe marginally better, but the results are far worse, so overall it's hard to argue that Lambert is cutting the mustard.
No they aren't, compared to the same fixtures last year they are better.
Of course they're worse. Unless you're seriously suggesting our results from last season will be exactly replicated this season?
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The standard default now seems to be
'We're not as bad as we were under McLeish.'
Whoopey-do!
Even though we're clearly worse. The football is maybe marginally better, but the results are far worse, so overall it's hard to argue that Lambert is cutting the mustard.
No they aren't, compared to the same fixtures last year they are better.
You're not doing that utterly ridiculous thing of comparing results against the same teams from last season are you? The sort of nonsense where Southampton magically become Bolton and so on. Please tell me you're not.
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Ah, the ridiculous thing that shows you pessimists are talking out your arses?
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Ah, the ridiculous thing that shows you pessimists are talking out your arses?
Go on then, show us this totally non-ridiculous analysis that demonstrates that despite being in the bottom three after our worst start to a season in living memory, that things are actually better than last year. I could do with a laugh.
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A choice between Albrighton and say Whittington wouldn't be too difficult to make at the moment.
Oh and I see Risso hasn't mellowed over the weekend ;)
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My match review:
"A chastening experience at The Etihad"
But a thank you to the nice lady steward who informed my youngest of seats near the front of the away section where he could see the pitch as opposed to having his view blocked by everyone standing up!
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Ah, the ridiculous thing that shows you pessimists are talking out your arses?
Go on then, show us this totally non-ridiculous analysis that demonstrates that despite being in the bottom three after our worst start to a season in living memory, that things are actually better than last year. I could do with a laugh.
Would you even consider changing your mind if I could be arsed to?
Just out of interest, who do you blame? Do you want Lambert out? The players as they aren't trying hard enough or someone else?
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Ah, the ridiculous thing that shows you pessimists are talking out your arses?
Go on then, show us this totally non-ridiculous analysis that demonstrates that despite being in the bottom three after our worst start to a season in living memory, that things are actually better than last year. I could do with a laugh.
Would you even consider changing your mind if I could be arsed to?
If you're going to make spurious claims, at least have the figures to back them up. I suspect you know deep down that trying to spin the figures to say that things this season are better than last is impossible given our woeful first third of the season.
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Ah, the ridiculous thing that shows you pessimists are talking out your arses?
Go on then, show us this totally non-ridiculous analysis that demonstrates that despite being in the bottom three after our worst start to a season in living memory, that things are actually better than last year. I could do with a laugh.
Would you even consider changing your mind if I could be arsed to?
If you're going to make spurious claims, at least have the figures to back them up. I suspect you know deep down that trying to spin the figures to say that things this season are better than last is impossible given our woeful first third of the season.
So, are you not answering my question?
My claim isn't spurious, it's highly relevant. I'd have thought as an accountant and someone who understands accruals, that you'd be able to take a different perspective on the way results are presented.
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Letting Cuellar go on a free was madness, coupled with Stan's illness and Dunne's injury problems we're desperately lacking in experience and leadership. I think we'll be more soild when Dunne returns (god knows when) and he partners Vlaar. The defending was abysmal yesterday - City just passed the ball into our net. I'd even have Warnock at LB at the moment. January will be make or break for our survival. Where's the silent one in all this? RL is a joke!
He had to go. He was signed when we were paying big wages so there was no way he could have a future at the club. If Lerner had his way he'd have the entire squad on YTS terms.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
I doubt the likes of Bent and Given are being paid peanuts.
Of course not. That's why they're out of the team and soon to be out of the club.
And also why Hutton is training with the reserves, Makoun will not be back, and Petrov wont be offered another contract.