Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on November 05, 2012, 06:21:55 PM
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Shock 1-0 home win. Benteke in the first minute.
Saturday 10.11.12 17:30 KO
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It's weird, but under Lambert, and in this odd season we're going to have I think I'd actually think we have a better chance of winning this game than, say, away at Fulham or something similar.
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With herd, baker, Bennett injured and lichaj suspended we are struggling at left back- Delph has played there as cover so I guess he is the option- Stevens looks well short of being ready to me.
Guzan
Lowton. Vlaar. Clark. Delph
Kea. Westwood
Bannan. Ireland. Gabby
Benteke
1-1 draw.
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I think Bertie will stick with the front three that have done quite well in the last two games. Biggest decision is central midfield with KEA available again.
It's to make a strong case for us winning, but nothing would surprise me this season!!
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Think Rooney and RVP will cause us too many problems at the back but we will give them a good game. Think we will just loose 2-1
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they're not unbeatable but we have to keep the ball. If as in past years we give it back to them senselessly then we will not only lose, but it will be well deserved and potentially heavy. We have to be clincal up front and resolute and compact everywhere else. We won't go into this game with a white flag that I am sure of.
2-1 Villa - Benteke and Captain Ron to open his account
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Another thing is the way referees tend to favour them may make it harder for Benteke to impose himself on their back four.
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3-1 United, Gabby scoring for us.
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1-2; Westwood for us and who cares for that lot
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It baffles me how Lichaj could have plucked up 5 yellows already this season when he's hardly played :/ I wouldn't change much from Saturdays game except Delph to play LB. KEA has faded more and more each week in my opinion and isn't as composed as he looked like he could be in Pre-season. We have to beat them at VP at some point, surely?
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Us 1 Them 2. No doubt their 2 goals will come after we batter them for 85 minutes. First match of the season i'll miss so at least I won't have to put up with their fans.
And Legion, don't forget to save me an issue of H&V please.
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1-2
We'll go down fighting, but it wont be enough
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Villa win 2-1.
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3-2 to them. Rooney and RVP to run us ragged with Gabby and Benteke doing the same at the other.
Defeat also by the odd goal to Man Citeh before we come up with a bizarrely comfortable win against Arsenal.
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1-0.
Gabby.
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Us 1 Them 2. No doubt their 2 goals will come after we batter them for 85 minutes. First match of the season i'll miss so at least I won't have to put up with their fans.
And Legion, don't forget to save me an issue of H&V please.
Will do. Post or collect?
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Us 1 Them 2. No doubt their 2 goals will come after we batter them for 85 minutes. First match of the season i'll miss so at least I won't have to put up with their fans.
And Legion, don't forget to save me an issue of H&V please.
Will do. Post or collect?
I'll pm you Leeg.
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My predictions have all been so accurate that I am going to go for a routine 0-3 win for a Newton Heath side which fails to break sweat. Villa to end the game with nine men after a stellar performance by the match officials.
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1-1. Yes I've been drinking.
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Not a clue. Just hope we keep the ball like we did against them a couple of years ago. For about 20 mins we played them off the park.
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Just spoken to Dowd and he's been told 0-3.
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Please tell me Dowd isn't ref
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No he's not. Kevin Friend for us.
No game for Clattenburg.
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1-1.
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Villa 5 - 0 Man Yoo
Total rout, could've been 10. Lilly Savage says "I still think they are poor and will go down".
Or a battling 1-1 draw...
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If we get a point from this I will be very happy (and amazed) so a draw!
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Can't see much but a utd win. Hope we give them a game though.
Could really do with Bennett or lichaj bring fit, or even herd or baker. Wouldn't fancy Stevens against valencia
I think the 4231 looks the best bet, so the only other choices for me are kea or bannan; and Holman or weimann. I think I'd see how they looked in training. If picking tomorrow I think I'd go Holman and bannan. We could switch to a diamond that way. Kea has looked of the pace in more intense games; bannan can look out of place against very physical sides but utd aren't necessarily that.
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If fit, I think he'll draft DB9 in for this game.
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With herd, baker, Bennett injured and lichaj suspended we are struggling at left back- Delph has played there as cover so I guess he is the option- Stevens looks well short of being ready to me.
Guzan
Lowton. Vlaar. Clark. Delph
Kea. Westwood
Bannan. Ireland. Gabby
Benteke
1-1 draw.
Seems logical with the Left Back crisis. Fortunately, Herd and Baker will undergo fitness tests and may be fit for Saturday with a bit of luck.
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Can herd play left back? Or would we be talking about Clark or Lowton there?
Baker is an obvious choice but seems to struggle against exactly the sort of Valencia player, getting sucked inside too much and allowing space to cross. Definitely a big concern.
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With herd, baker, Bennett injured and lichaj suspended we are struggling at left back- Delph has played there as cover so I guess he is the option- Stevens looks well short of being ready to me.
Guzan
Lowton. Vlaar. Clark. Delph
Kea. Westwood
Bannan. Ireland. Gabby
Benteke
1-1 draw.
Seems logical with the Left Back crisis. Fortunately, Herd and Baker will undergo fitness tests and may be fit for Saturday with a bit of luck.
I think Bennett's problem is that the cut on his knee keeps opening up. Hopefully he can still play on Saturday should they be able to find a way of stopping it opening up again.
I would stick with the same formation we played against Sunderland and think that Weimann did enough to start again and if he doesn't, then Holman should play in that role. As for central midfield, Westwood and KEA will do a similar job, whereas Bannan brings something a little different and also takes set pieces.
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no idea why KEA should play, why not stick with a winning team for once?
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no idea why KEA should play, why not stick with a winning team for once?
Agree fully, KEA offers very little to the team IMHO.
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Hate to tempt fate and all that, but I've got a funny feeling about this one.
If we get the team selection and tactics right, the players turn up and we get a lucky break against these pricks for fucking once, I reckon we could sneak it.
If we go more than 1 behind though, we're fkd.
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no idea why KEA should play, why not stick with a winning team for once?
Agree fully, KEA offers very little to the team IMHO.
Utd are a lot different to Sunderland - kea would provide added strength in midfield to help protect the back 4 - if a choice of either Westwood or kea I agree I'd stick with Westwood.
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Can't really think we'll win, just a lot more confident going into the game after the Sunderland match
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Lets face it, this is a game we are likely to lose. All the pressure is on ManU.
We can just sit back and enjoy the game.
If we lose, Oh well, no big deal. If we get a sniff of an upset then...it should be a cracking atmosphere!
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Villa to win 3-2 with 2 late goals from Benteke and Ferguson was left fuming.
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I can't see anything but a Gloryhunter win, but I hope we give them a hard time achieving it.
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1-3, They have had decent record at VP for the last few years.
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If we are struggling for left-back options, rather than drop Stevens, who doesn't look anywhere near ready, in or shoehorn Delph in there, why not try:
Guzan
Lowton Vlaar Clark
Westwood
Ireland KEA Bannan
Weimann Benteke Agbonlahor
Subs: Given, Delph, Holman, Stevens, Albrighton, Bowery, Carruthers
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While I'm yet to take any coaching badges, I think it'd be suicidal to play so narrowly against United.
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Why? United often play narrowly themselves this season, they've been using a midfield diamond a lot of the time.
Besides, Lowton and Clark would play RB-CB and LB-CB in this formation - United will play with RVP as the lone striker, so Vlaar will pick him up and Westwood would drop deeper to keep an eye on Rooney. We've then got a midfield three to give us a good chance of getting hold of the ball and keeping it, because if we don't do that against United, we're finished before we've started.
Weimann and Agbonlahor would give us the attacking width.
That said, my preference would be retain the same formation as last Saturday but if Bennett doesn't recover, the thought of putting Stevens or Delph at LB frightens me.... SAF would tell Valencia to have a field day. It's a thought for a Plan B!
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They'll be too much for us down the wings.
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Because in that formation, they'll just bypass Westwood and get it to their wingers or let Rooney roam into the space our three at the back are trying to cover. I may be wrong but I can't see that formation working at all.
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Gone for a home win. It does not matter who we play and when we play them i can talk my self into thinking we are going to win. It's either going to be 1-0 with a late Gabby goal or 5-3 Villa. Ash to be sent off for diving.
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Vlaar needs to put a set of studs into Van Persie within the first couple of minutes.
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It's different, I grant you that. I'm looking at what we can do in terms of getting a measure of control on the game ourselves, rather than shutting down wingers they may or may not play with. My concern would be whether we need two more athletic types in the wider midfield roles, so we could look at Holman, or Albrighton, or Delph, coming in.
3-4-3/3-5-2 is being used quite frequently these days, it does have its merits.
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Sorry chaps but I think we might get a pasting. Our midfield has been lightweight against lesser teams, and a narrow win against martinoneilssunderland doesn't rectify that. Think they'll play Young and Valencia wide, and with Rafael pushing on as well I think we'll spend a lot of time in our own half as our FB's will be pinned back. Hope I'm wrong and will be happy to eat humble pie if so. If we get anything out of the next 3 games I'll be happy but I just want to get them out the way and get to winning the games against Reading, QPR and Stoke.
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Vlaar needs to put a set of studs into Van Persie within the first couple of minutes.
Ouch.....
(fairly of course)
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I wonder if there's any chance Hutton plays?
I think it'll be Stevens. But Hutton is fit and played for Scotland a month or so ago.
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1-3 probably after we take the lead , then the second half onslaught.
But I am hoping for Van Persie gets injured in pre match training , Rooney comes off with pulled muscle after 28 minutes and Young gets sent off for second yellow after dive and Villa win 1-0 . ;)
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Vlaar needs to put a set of studs into Van Persie within the first couple of minutes.
Ouch.....
(fairly of course)
Not that I would ever condole voilence, of course. But if you do it early enough and make it look like an accident...
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I've lifted this from the great Ron Saunders stuff on the official site:
"They call me Mr 110% - because that's what I ask the players to give and I urge the supporters to lend the same kind of backing to the team."
The supporters are absolutely key to our home form. I have no doubts about our team, it's the support that need to believe once more. Totally believe, encourage and lift the team and they will give the opposition a hiding. Be relentless - a Villa win and three more points.
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A demolition. 0-5 to them.
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Villa 2 Railway Workers 2.
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2-1 to us. Bollocks to them.
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I'm afraid we'll get a walloping.
We are nowhere near good enough to give these a fright.
0-3
Realistically looking at our next points coming from beating Reading.
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Vlaar needs to put a set of studs into Van Persie within the first couple of minutes.
Wouldn't he have to cover them with plasters?
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3-0 home win
Benteke hat-trick
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3 nil them, Macheda brace and Young.
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I'm all for optimism but I fear the worst for Saturday, and I think the Platic Mancs will prioritise this game over the Champons League sadly.
We won't throw the towel in but we're wide open as a team.
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Didier Six to have a stormer. 3-0 Villa.
Goals:
Peter Withe
Allan Evans
Paul Rideout
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From the BEEB:
Did you know? Bannan has created 12 scoring chances for his Aston Villa colleagues this season - more than any of his team-mates.
He must start!
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Only 2865 tickets left now according to the online ticket website
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Usual drill...2-0 to them - who scores is anyone's guess
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Didier Six to have a stormer. 3-0 Villa.
Goals:
Peter Withe
Allan Evans
Paul Rideout
Remember it well- wonderful !
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Shock 1-0 home win. Benteke in the first minute.
Saturday 10.11.12 17:30 KO
I think those set of circumstances would probably see me having to dial 999.
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looking at the date, couldn't we kick off at 14 minutes past 1
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Think we will lose as usual, no idea of the score,
but will put money on Villa not finishing with 11men,
Man Utd rarely finish a game playing against a full side, I don't think Saturday will be any different, especially if Delph or Herd play any part
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Didier Six to have a stormer. 3-0 Villa.
Goals:
Peter Withe
Allan Evans
Paul Rideout
Remember it well- wonderful !
Yep. Vivid memories of it as well, despite being a young lad at the time. We'd usually stand in the Holte End, but it happened to be a season where my dad had a season ticket in the Trinity and so I saw the full (but achingly fleeting) wonderment of Six taking Utd apart down that left wing. Wonderful!! It was when I fell in love with Football I think.
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Isn't Lowton left-footed? If so, he could play left-back with Herd/Lichaj on the right
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Isn't Lowton left-footed? If so, he could play left-back with Herd/Lichaj on the right
Herds injured and lichaj suspended according to kendrick.
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Oh dear. Hutton then :(
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Oh dear. Hutton then :(
Interesting one that , if it came down to it I wonder whether lambert would pick Hutton in the event of injuries and suspension, he is still on the payroll and played recently for Scotland - I would be surprised if he was brought in though and Delph having covered at left back before may be the option if baker, Bennett, and herd are unavailable.
Enda Stevens is not ready In my opinion .
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Only 2865 tickets left now according to the online ticket website
That's good for my Guess the Crowd!
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Only 2865 tickets left now according to the online ticket website
Did you count them up yourself, or is there a place somewhere that says?
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They've scored 26 PL goals already, we've scored 8, 2nd worst in the league behind Sunderland !
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They've probably conceded as Many as we have though
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Only 2865 tickets left now according to the online ticket website
Did you count them up yourself, or is there a place somewhere that says?
If you've tried counting on the seat thing then that's always way off.
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I'd just like to add that I fecking hate these wankers, probably even more than I do small heath.
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2-1 them.
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4-2 to them lot
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Dose of reality.
0-3
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They won't even play particularly well. I hate this game as much as I hate playing the noses. The perceived stakes are too high.
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I'd just like to add that I fecking hate these wankers, probably even more than I do small heath.
I used to loathe them more than any other club too, particularly when they pipped us to the league and we had all that doing it for Sir Matt, dancing down the line at the late winner against Sheff Wed etc stuff. Since then, I have become rather immune to them as they have won so much, it's almost as if they don't exist and I pay the scantest regard to their results. My loathing these days is reserved pretty much for the bindippers and Chelsea with occasional liberal sprinklings of teams like Spurs. The small heath hatred dissipated for me once I moved away from Birmingham
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3-1 to Manure.
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If Manure plays their "B" Team I think we have a reasonable chance for winning.
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They've probably conceded as Many as we have though
Actually yes they have good point, 14 each
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A sneaky 1-0 to us. Now that would be nice.
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A sneaky 1-0 to us. Now that would be nice.
Yep a pen in 90 + 5 mins. And a very dodgy pen at that.
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A sneaky 1-0 to us. Now that would be nice.
Yep a pen in 90 + 5 mins. And a very dodgy pen at that.
That would be heaven,especially for the rant from big old red nose jock Mc fecker about the obscene amount of added time at the end of the game and how refs are prejudiced against Manyooooo. 3 points, thank you very much, now feck back off to London you plastic cocks.
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I actually think we'll win this. We have to win this fixture at some point and this seems as good a time as any. 1-0. Westwood 5.
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Fergiecunt to take the piss and play a very weakened side
He also has won last months Mgr of the Month award - that used to be the kiss of death
We need strong officials and a strong supportive crowd
Not surprised by the crowd as at least this year we will not hear "Elite club" or any boolocks like that and although we maybe short on quality compared to them we will at least have a go
I do fucking hate these more than i ever could the blose
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2-2
A penalty to us-(who takes our penalties, if Bent doesn't play?) scored by (unknown) and Holman. Van Persie and Scholes for them.
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I hate these plastic gloryhunting bastards.
There, I said it.
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I fear 1-4 or 2-4.
Can't see a Utd team with Van Persie in it not scoring at least a few.
With our full strength defence we'd struggle but we're badly hampered there.
I'd accept conceding a few but I hope that we can manage one or two at the other end.
Shame that after a good win, we have to have these 3 games in a row, hope we can keep some level of optimism going throughout but will depend on performances I think as much as results.
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Sir Alex Ferguson has completed 26 years at Man-Utd.
Well more like 30 if you add on all the injury time.
Stolen!
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Hutton to man mark Rooney.
0-3, with us having our customary plucky 20 minutes.
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0-3 or less would be a pretty good result.
However, the ideal result would be a Villa winner in the 6th minute of 4 added on at the end of the second half.
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Man U and the Ref & Linesman 2
Aston Villa 0
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2-1 to us. Bollocks to them.
seconded
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0-3 or less would be a pretty good result.
However, the ideal result would be a Villa winner in the 6th minute of 4 added on at the end of the second half.
Wouldn't that just be the most perfect thing ever
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Can we not just do it again, like we did in August '95? (one of my favourite times at VP)...
And the majority of the 34,655 crowd were in dreamland ten minutes later when United keeper Peter Schmeichel fouled Milosevic in the area and Yorke buried the penalty.
Hee, hee... ;D
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Can we not just do it again, like we did in August '95? (one of my favourite times at VP)...
And the majority of the 34,655 crowd were in dreamland ten minutes later when United keeper Peter Schmeichel fouled Milosevic in the area and Yorke buried the penalty.
Hee, hee... ;D
A repeat of the 3-0 win against them on Boxing Day 1989 would also be nice. They were a struggling side back then and we ripped them apart that day.
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A repeat of the 3-0 win against them on Boxing Day 1989 would also be nice. They were a struggling side back then and we ripped them apart that day.
There were Fergy on the dole chants that day and he got some real stick off the United supporters. They would probably deny it but then most of them wouldn't know they were in League Division One at the time.
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Honestly can't see anything but a ManUre win. Saying that we can't go since they moved kickoff for TV so it will probably be blinding and we'll miss it. It's my 40th and we are off to Simpsons ( Sky ruined the plan of football.... then food)
Sorry to people usually around us in Trinity if Plastic reds bought our tickets on viagogo
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I don't think we'll get much out of the game,but it won't be for the want of trying,which will be the complete opposite to the embarrassing shite which was served up in the fixture last season. Us 1 them 2.
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It is almost unfathomable how wretched our record is against this lot.
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Fergie resting Van Persie and Ferdinand tonight.
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Fergie resting Van Persie and Ferdinand tonight.
Bollocks. I was hoping van persil would get injured tonight.
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As others have noted, Ferguson has enough respect for Villa always to field a strong side, however out-of-form we may be.
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A repeat of the 3-0 win against them on Boxing Day 1989 would also be nice. They were a struggling side back then and we ripped them apart that day.
There were Fergy on the dole chants that day and he got some real stick off the United supporters. They would probably deny it but then most of them wouldn't know they were in League Division One at the time.
I think this is when the Villa supporters serenaded them with "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life," too. Which they promptly nicked.
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Woodhall was in enemy terrority on Radio Manchester tonight talking about saturday Match
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Woodhall was in enemy terrority on Radio Manchester tonight talking about saturday Match
What did he say ?
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Dave was being honest as expected , saying we got a shit record against them but hoping for a win
He was on a man united radio show so got very little time
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Dave was being honest as expected , saying we got a shit record against them but hoping for a win
He was on a man united radio show so got very little time
So there I was driving home from work on Trafford Park to Rochdale just about to turn over from "Red Wednesday" on Radio Manchester so as to listen to something half sensible when they announced their guest from the forthcoming opposition, one Mr Woodhall, who would discuss this Saturday's game. Although alluding to their overly superior record agsinst us, Dave predicted a 3-2 score without saying which way. As they had been discussing Man Utd's most important signing, they decided to ask Dave who honestly answered "Cantona" to which one dick head called Bill Rice in the studio retorted "What does an Aston Villa fan know" - I tell you what he knows, to answer the question put to him honestly and without rancour and not sneer at another team's supporter because they haven't won 73 Premier League titles or 16 Champions Leagues like what you have ! Oh and beat Barcelons like Celtic have tonight and you haven't !
1-3 to them, we can't defend a Wendy House at the moment
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The fact that the prick doesn't realise how important a signing Cantona was for them sums them up. He probably thinks the answer should be Ronaldo or Rooney.
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We will do well to keep RVP and Shrek quiet. Still if we can somehow dominate Scholes and Carrick in the middle of the pitch we may be able to nick something.
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Woodhall was in enemy terrority on Radio Manchester tonight talking about saturday Match
What did he say ?
He says it's Mr Woodhall to you, Hubbard. And yet again he caught a few minutes of a BBC local radio programme which pisses all over anything WM could ever dream of doing. They have the same in Liverpool.
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Carrick, Cleverley and Young all got a break tonight.
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Yep agree it pisses.
over wm they have a show for city and united , shame wm don't have a magazine show for each brummie team
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Us 2 - 2 Them
Benteke (7th) & Agbonlahor (79th).
Hernandez (65th) & De Gea (Sunday Morning 5:19).
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2-1 us, They score first we come back and SAF blames tiredness and the floodlights going out and the ref not playing more than 20 mins added on time
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Whats really worrying me is that if Benteke turns in a sensational performance this week Sir Alex, Mancini, or Di Matteo will be getting the cheque book out come Jan1st and if they offer double what we paid for him Randy may well agree to it.
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That's the spirit Ron :)
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That's the spirit Ron :)
Stop pinching Daves catchprases Phil! You should know that at Aston Villa FC anything is possible.
Best to be pessimistic then it doesnt hurt so much.
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Honestly can't see anything except a four goal defeat. SAF said last saturday that they lost the title last year on goal difference and they had missed too many chances against the Arse. So he will demand that there is no let up and even if they are a couple in front they will still bombard us. Plus he will now play the reserves in the CL matches so will tell the main players they are to give it everything in the League. All this together with our flaky midfield and defence gives me a very gloomy feeling (and it will all be shown on the great big Sky love fest!)
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Honestly can't see anything except a four goal defeat. SAF said last saturday that they lost the title last year on goal difference and they had missed too many chances against the Arse. So he will demand that there is no let up and even if they are a couple in front they will still bombard us. Plus he will now play the reserves in the CL matches so will tell the main players they are to give it everything in the League. All this together with our flaky midfield and defence gives me a very gloomy feeling (and it will all be shown on the great big Sky love fest!)
Bloody hell , think you are being too negative, it's football, who would have given Celtic much chance of beating Barcelona last night- these things happen and you never know, with a bit of luck we might turn utd over- unlikely maybe but possible - yes!
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Always helps to play them after they have been away in Europe.......personally I was hoping for an air traffic controllers strike in Portugal that delayed their return till Friday.
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Always helps to play them after they have been away in Europe......
Really? When was the last time it helped us?
United rested players last night and have now qualified for the last 16 of the CL and are out of the League cup. This means that they are free to give it everything they've got in the PL and with our record against them I fear a drubbing. Not only that, our current team is a whole lot worse than other Villa sides that have failed to produce a home win over them in 17 years and their strike force is arguably the best its ever been. 0-4.
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Whats really worrying me is that if Benteke turns in a sensational performance this week Sir Alex, Mancini, or Di Matteo will be getting the cheque book out come Jan1st and if they offer double what we paid for him Randy may well agree to it.
The kid's on a four year contract, I think. In that scenario it would take a whole lot more than double what we paid for any club to get him. Besides that, I hope Randy is back into squad building mode now and that he has the intention of building a top side around the likes of Benteke.
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Villa win 2 - 0 Benteke and Vlaar.
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I think they'm gonna ammer us. :-(
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We can win this but we must go at this lot. We should have won two years ago under Houllier but threw it away at the death. Lambert sent Norwich up there last season and nearly pulled off a shock win. We need to be brave and confident.
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Fergie has started the usual "love Villa Park, always been a special place to come"
Hopefully Benteke will give Ferdinand something to think about come kick off.
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Fergie has started the usual "love Villa Park, always been a special place to come"
Hopefully Benteke will give Ferdinand something to think about come kick off.
I wonder how much he loved it and how special it seemed on Boxing Day 1989 when the away support made it clear they wanted shot of him. At least we were nice to him at the season of good will. We seemed to spend most of the game thanking him for Paul McGrath.
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6-2 away win...not joking.
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2 - 3 to them, benteke gabby, young diving for 3 penalties being booked for one dive!
But still hope we can buck the trend and beat them
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1-1. Benteke for us, for them Van Persie in the 100th minute.
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Referee will be Keith Friend - here's how he's handled other games this season
http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=865 (http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=865)
Seems to like his yellows which could be a problem for Herd and Delph...
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Referee will be Keith Friend - here's how he's handled other games this season
http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=865 (http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=865)
Seems to like his yellows which could be a problem for Herd and Delph...
I was going to say it would be if they were playing. But I guess there's a chance one of them will play at left back?
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Any ref is a problem for Delph.
He is a walking yellow card.
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Referee will be Keith Friend - here's how he's handled other games this season
http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=865 (http://www.soccerbase.com/referees/referee.sd?referee_id=865)
Seems to like his yellows which could be a problem for Herd and Delph...
I was going to say it would be if they were playing. But I guess there's a chance one of them will play at left back?
I think there's a chance of that and could it be that they will be up against Mr Young if he switches sides? That worries me.
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To be honest I hope Delph and yellow cards won't be an issue because he won't be on the pitch.
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I can see us getting a goal or two here but the trouble is,with our defence and their forwards ,i can see them getting three or four. 4-2 to Newton Heath
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We will win. We'll be denied a nailed-on early penalty. The Holte End will spark up and we'll score soon after. Plain sailing from then on. 3-0. They won't know what's hit 'em. Jobs a good 'un.
Or more likely a comfortable 2-0 to them. Ah well, hopefully we'll get another go next year.
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Seems in his interviews today that lambert is bigging up enda Stevens and looks likely to start him against man utd- Darren bent is not part of the squad for tomorrow.
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1-2 - Gabby to open scoring and RVP to bag a brace and an undeserved 3 points.
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Sorry, 3-0 to them.
Wrong sort of team for us with such good wide players they will over run our young inexperienced full backs.
Mind you, I would love it, just love it if I am wrong
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Well Lawro has been quite scathing of us stating that we resemble a Championship side that has just been promoted with a lack of quality.
Pin it up on the dressing room wall Mr Lambert (although there is an element of truth).
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Well Lawro has been quite scathing of us stating that we resemble a Championship side that has just been promoted with a lack of quality.
Pin it up on the dressing room wall Mr Lambert (although there is an element of truth).
I hate him. Hate him. He doesn't bother to actually look at any evidence outside of his beloved top 5 or so, and then delivers his wanky, patronising and, invariably, crap pronouncements from on high. I don't care what he says or thinks, I'm only annoyed that license fee money is wasted on this insight-vacuum.
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Nani is out.
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Nani is out.
Brave man, I wondered who would be the first.
Maybe more footballers will come out now.
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Nani is out.
He's not really injured, he just needs more time to perfect his Sammy Davis Jr tribute act
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Valencia and Young only on the wings then, ouch!
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Enda Stevens left back then ?
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From RedCafe
Quote:
Originally Posted by kouroux
I hate Aston Villa.One of the most boring teams to face
Same here. There are one of the most pointless teams on this league.
Predictable comments, but if teams like us are "pointless", ManU can't really be considered that great can they?
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£10 off a villa shirt offer with tomorrow match programme (£3)
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Enda Stevens left back then ?
Yes , lamberts been bigging him up in his press conference today.
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From RedCafe
Quote:
Originally Posted by kouroux
I hate Aston Villa.One of the most boring teams to face
Same here. There are one of the most pointless teams on this league.
These comments about teams being 'boring' and 'pointless' are one of the most tiresome things of modern football.
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Enda Stevens left back then ?
Yes , lamberts been bigging him up in his press conference today.
stevens scares me, i would go with delph even though he is more of a card worry.
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From RedCafe
Quote:
Originally Posted by kouroux
I hate Aston Villa.One of the most boring teams to face
Same here. There are one of the most pointless teams on this league.
These comments about teams being 'boring' and 'pointless' are one of the most tiresome things of modern football.
Apart from the fact that using the phrase "on this league" indicates someone who isn't exactly born & bred Mancunian, or even on the same continent, do they ever stop to think who their team would play every week if it wasn't for all these 'pointless' opponents?
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I quite agree, Dave.
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Nani is out.
He's not really injured, he just needs more time to perfect his Sammy Davis Jr tribute act
Or his Michael Jackson one
(http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Nani-MJ-1.jpg)
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I used to have great fun with a 'Man U fan' I worked with for a spell who had NEVER BEEN TO OLD TRAFFORD ONCE. I continually questioned him on what he got out of it... 'do you just find out the result, clench your fists and go 'yes' and then move to next week? Good for you, brilliant.'
He used to hate it. That's pointless, in my eyes.
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Those who use the excuse that they can't get a ticket for Old Trafford have to come up with another excuse nowadays as most matches are on open sale. Quite often notice empty seats these days.
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Those who use the excuse that they can't get a ticket for Old Trafford have to come up with another excuse nowadays as most matches are on open sale. Quite often notice empty seats these days.
Most of the ones I've met couldn't even find Manchester on a map, let alone find Old Trafford
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
Quite a few Championship sides are better than Celtic. It's a very, very sorry state of affairs.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
Young man ... we are better in every way.
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Man Utd are not a great side currently, but they have some great players most notably Van Persie. If we have a go at them they can be beaten.
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Bent is out of the team again tomorrow- ankle injury - yeah right:(
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
Young man ... we are better in every way.
On reflection, I'm probably wrong, but I can't help but feel like they'd batter us if we played them. I think they give of the illusion of being a decent side because of the big crowds they get.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
Young man ... we are better in every way.
On reflection, I'm probably wrong, but I can't help but feel like they'd batter us if we played them. I think they give of the illusion of being a decent side because of the big crowds they get.
Fairplay Chipsticks - I was alluding to the fact that I would it hard for anything about Celtic to be better than the Villa - but I am somewhat biasedagainst them anyhow. Would love their crowds at Villa Park and their hoard of trophies but as others on here post - they play in a nothing League. Give them their dues on the night and allow them to celebrate but "Giant Killing acts" happen in football from time to time.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
Young man ... we are better in every way.
On reflection, I'm probably wrong, but I can't help but feel like they'd batter us if we played them. I think they give of the illusion of being a decent side because of the big crowds they get.
Rangers get more and I think that even our biggest miseryarse would give us a good chance of beating them.
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I actually feel quietly confident that we can get something - which considering the match is at what must be Fergie's favourite ground for garnering points - is a turn up.
2-1 us.
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Celtic have had bigger crowds for the last decade or so, Rangers used to get more most of the time. Quite amusing when you check back quite how poorly both have been supported at times over the years.
As for if we played them, it would be close if we were to play them in say the UEFA cup as it's a one off England v Scotland type game. As they've shown in the past, they raise their game against English sides. However if their squad played for Fulham i'd fancy us to get a result most of the time.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
Okay. Give me some reasons why we are not better than Celtic.
Chipsticks, would you be saying that if they'd not beaten Barcelona mid-week? Eastie gave the example that the whole Celtic team cost six million quid - that wouldn't even buy a Benteke! (I'm being a bit mischievous,of course, as money shelled out on players does not necessarily equate to being a good team.)
EDIT I've just seen what you wrote after your post Chipsticks.
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Man Utd are not a great side currently, but they have some great players most notably Van Persie. If we have a go at them they can be beaten.
I'd argue they're as strong as ever. They are top of the league and they're playing average football.
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Man Utd are not a great side currently, but they have some great players most notably Van Persie. If we have a go at them they can be beaten.
I'd argue they're as strong as ever. They are top of the league and they're playing average football.
Not as strong defensively as they used to be , their keeper is prone to mistakes as are their defence. Their side of 94 with cantona, Hughes, Keane , schmeichel , giggs, kanchelskis, etc was better than now in my opinion and we all know what happened at Wembley in 94.
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Man Utd are not a great side currently, but they have some great players most notably Van Persie. If we have a go at them they can be beaten.
I'd argue they're as strong as ever. They are top of the league and they're playing average football.
I'd rather that than them being top of the league and playing amazing football.
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Not especially. It might be because we have struggled over the past two seasons, but I am alone in not really being bothered about games against the so called "big four"? I suppose if we were pushing to get into the toip four, then these games would have a lot more importance, but I just don't feel there is a buzz about them anymore.
It might just be a reflection of where we are at the moment that I am looking forward to the Reading game much more than our next three fixtures.
Oh, and we are much better than Celtic!!
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Rookie players, a new defence, tons of injuries, one above relegation - up against the UK's leading team of highly talented, multi millionaire, medal holding, cocky players and staff. We have no chance at all. So. Why do I have this sneaky feeling that Villa may somehow not be utterly humiliated and demoralised in this perennial Sky Sports 5.30 fixture?
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Man Utd are not a great side currently, but they have some great players most notably Van Persie. If we have a go at them they can be beaten.
I'd argue they're as strong as ever. They are top of the league and they're playing average football.
Not as strong defensively as they used to be , their keeper is prone to mistakes as are their defence. Their side of 94 with cantona, Hughes, Keane , schmeichel , giggs, kanchelskis, etc was better than now in my opinion and we all know what happened at Wembley in 94.
Agree their defence is quite mediocre but attacking wise they are as good as ever
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Well celtics team cost £6.5m and they beat barcalonas multi millionaires so there is always a chance , may be unlikely but I expect to give them a game and if luck goes our way lets hope we get a result.
Well, dare I say it, we are better than Celtic and Barcelona are better than Man Utd.
We are not better than Celtic.
Okay. Give me some reasons why we are not better than Celtic.
Chipsticks, would you be saying that if they'd not beaten Barcelona mid-week? Eastie gave the example that the whole Celtic team cost six million quid - that wouldn't even buy a Benteke! (I'm being a bit mischievous,of course, as money shelled out on players does not necessarily equate to being a good team.)
EDIT I've just seen what you wrote after your post Chipsticks.
Thing is, is Benteke better than Hooper, is Guzan better than Forster, is Commons better than Bannan, is Ledley better than KEA?
It would be a pretty even game, us v Celtic, unfortunately.
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Okay...so maybe we're better than Celtic. I didn't meant to start a riot!
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Celtic have one of the most detestable managers in the league so that's one we've gone up on them....apart from in Norfolk.
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Good article about Celtic's scouting network: &sns=fb
They've been doing what we're trying to do at the moment, but by spending less money. They can offer Champions League, we off EPL. THey're definitely ahead of us at the moment, they've spent very well and built a good team, we're just beginning to do this. Celtic not only beat Barcelona but lost the game at the Nou Camp with a last second goal. I think that says it all. But hey don't worry, 'our day will come'.
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Good article about Celtic's scouting network: &sns=fb
They've been doing what we're trying to do at the moment, but by spending less money. They can offer Champions League, we off EPL. THey're definitely ahead of us at the moment, they've spent very well and built a good team, we're just beginning to do this. Celtic not only beat Barcelona but lost the game at the Nou Camp with a last second goal. I think that says it all. But hey don't worry, 'our day will come'.
Built a good team? They are a Championship level team at best.
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Are the green and "gold" bandwagon scarves still about?
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Anyone else getting as annoyed as I am with being treated like a joke by the media and ManU fans during the run up to this game?
I understand we are favourites to lose and given the squads thats right, but jesus how about a little fucking respect?
Not especially. It might be because we have struggled over the past two seasons, but I am alone in not really being bothered about games against the so called "big four"? I suppose if we were pushing to get into the toip four, then these games would have a lot more importance, but I just don't feel there is a buzz about them anymore.
It might just be a reflection of where we are at the moment that I am looking forward to the Reading game much more than our next three fixtures.
Oh, and we are much better than Celtic!!
I know what you mean. I just want the three points, I couldn't care less who we are playing. In terms of tomorrow's match, I'm just embarrassed that we've allowed another club to get away with such a record against us these past fifteen years and I want that run to come to an end a.s.a.p. I think Spurs had a similar run against us in the sixties but these types of things always grind to a halt eventually and the form and luck evens itself out.
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I think the very least we can expect is that we will at least give it a go. We might not succeed in getting anything but I don't for one minute think Lambert will send out, whatever team is available, 11 players who will simply roll over. We might just surprise ourselves.
UTV
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I think the very least we can expect is that we will at least give it a go. We might not succeed in getting anything but I don't for one minute think Lambert will send out, whatever team is available, 11 players who will simply roll over. We might just surprise ourselves.
UTV
Amen to that !
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Saw the Ferguson pre-match interview. I'm off to the Celebrity Death Thread.
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I've got a nasty feeling our young pups are going to get a bit of a chasing today. Very worried about enda Stevens if he plays. Hopefully bannan can help him out like he did against Sunderland.
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From RedCafe
Quote:
Originally Posted by kouroux
I hate Aston Villa.One of the most boring teams to face
Same here. There are one of the most pointless teams on this league.
Predictable comments, but if teams like us are "pointless", ManU can't really be considered that great can they?
One of the comments posted this morning on Red Cafe to the tune of "is the game being played on Sunday?" tells you all you need to know about Man Utd "fans".
Not the side they once were but a world class front two. They'll be winning naff all this year.
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
I'd agree tbh. No denying Rooney is very good, but if you had to pick a 'World XI' he would not feature for me. However I also agree that this will bite my 'arris later when he goes mental and gets 4 this evening!
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
I'd agree tbh. No denying Rooney is very good, but if you had to pick a 'World XI' he would not feature for me. However I also agree that this will bite my 'arris later when he goes mental and gets 4 this evening!
This is all very true, but I don't think being 'world class' should be defined on being able to get into the starting team of a world XI. In the defence of Wayne, the way he completely turned around our cup final a few years ago is one of the best performances from an individual I've seen.
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Thy'll score twice.
It wont matter as Gabby will get a brace and somebody will drop the winner in for us.
The days of B6 being a free lunch for these cock ends has passed.
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
I'd agree tbh. No denying Rooney is very good, but if you had to pick a 'World XI' he would not feature for me. However I also agree that this will bite my 'arris later when he goes mental and gets 4 this evening!
This is all very true, but I don't think being 'world class' should be defined on being able to get into the starting team of a world XI. In the defence of Wayne, the way he completely turned around our cup final a few years ago is one of the best performances from an individual I've seen.
Yeah you're right - a World XI would be taking things a little too far but you know what I mean... He has the potential to change games though I'll give him that, so his performance overall may not be what was originally promised, I guess sometimes that doesn't matter. Hopefully there'll be none of that on show later mind!
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
I'd agree tbh. No denying Rooney is very good, but if you had to pick a 'World XI' he would not feature for me. However I also agree that this will bite my 'arris later when he goes mental and gets 4 this evening!
This is all very true, but I don't think being 'world class' should be defined on being able to get into the starting team of a world XI. In the defence of Wayne, the way he completely turned around our cup final a few years ago is one of the best performances from an individual I've seen.
Yeah you're right - a World XI would be taking things a little too far but you know what I mean... He has the potential to change games though I'll give him that, so his performance overall may not be what was originally promised, I guess sometimes that doesn't matter. Hopefully there'll be none of that on show later mind!
Well that's his one problem, he either turns up or he doesn't. I'm sure he won't today ;)
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About Rooney, when he's on fire he's brilliant to watch. I just hope tonight, he's in 'can't be arsed' mode.
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is the game not on espn? if not why is it s late ko?
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is the game not on espn? if not why is it s late ko?
It's on Sky Sports 2
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I think someone else has touched on this but Ferdinand could be Utd's weak link. Hopefully Gabby can expose his lack of pace. I'd keep the same side, although i've a feeling he'll bring KEA back in.
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Skysports on tonight and it is probably be on match 3 on world super saturday package with match at 12.45, 3pm then 5.30pm
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Fecking hell. so sky can show late games as well its a fucking joke football nowadays. fuck it Im off to the Santa parade with the kids
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On the train up from London for my first game of the season. 2 -1 villa for me. Gabby on the break in th first half. RVP with a sweet 18 yard volley straight after half time. Then a concrete Ron demolition header from a corner on 77 minutes.
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Suppose if pushed would be willing to take 4-0 to the Villa,
expect 1-2 though......shame on me
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This train jourmey from London to Brum to watch the game is torture. I have forgot my headphones so am having to listen to the inane jibber jabber of cockney reds. A couple of them support West Ham as well.
Hope we smash them.
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What`s the weather like in Brum right now?
Looking to set off early and take in the atmosphere (cough, splutter) ;)
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This train jourmey from London to Brum to watch the game is torture. I have forgot my headphones so am having to listen to the inane jibber jabber of cockney reds. A couple of them support West Ham as well.
Oh dear, my thoughts are with you. Would'nt you be better off sitting in the toilet?
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What`s the weather like in Brum right now?
Looking to set off early and take in the atmosphere (cough, splutter) ;)
Cold and dank. Actually chilly more than cold. Reckon it will be very cold later though.
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What`s the weather like in Brum right now?
Looking to set off early and take in the atmosphere (cough, splutter) ;)
Cold and dank. Actually chilly more than cold. Reckon it will be very cold later though.
Thanks Buddy - looks like the thermals then - just in case.
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What`s the weather like in Brum right now?
Looking to set off early and take in the atmosphere (cough, splutter) ;)
Cold and dank. Actually chilly more than cold. Reckon it will be very cold later though.
Thanks Buddy - looks like the thermals then - just in case.
Doesn't look like it'll be too bad for the game according to the Met Office (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/?tab=fiveDay)
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What`s the weather like in Brum right now?
Looking to set off early and take in the atmosphere (cough, splutter) ;)
Cold and dank. Actually chilly more than cold. Reckon it will be very cold later though.
Thanks Buddy - looks like the thermals then - just in case.
Doesn't look like it'll be too bad for the game according to the Met Office (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/?tab=fiveDay)
Pfft, as if they will be more accurate than my sophisticated method of opening the window and sticking my head out.
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This train jourmey from London to Brum to watch the game is torture. I have forgot my headphones so am having to listen to the inane jibber jabber of cockney reds. A couple of them support West Ham as well.
Oh dear, my thoughts are with you. Would'nt you be better off sitting in the toilet?
Could be an idea. On the upside just had a Twix and looked inside the wrapper to find out I had won another chocolate bar - so it's not all bad.
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Now that it's match day i'm gutted that i'm missing my first home game of the season. Sods law we'll finally twat them as i'm not there.
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What`s the weather like in Brum right now?
Looking to set off early and take in the atmosphere (cough, splutter) ;)
Very mild, limited wind, occasional blue sky. Dry.
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What`s the weather like in Brum right now?
Looking to set off early and take in the atmosphere (cough, splutter) ;)
Very mild, limited wind, occasional blue sky. Dry.
A comprehensive response - thank you ......just what I expect from a fellow Silhillian 8)
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Thy'll score twice.
It wont matter as Gabby will get a brace and somebody will drop the winner in for us.
The days of B6 being a free lunch for these cock ends has passed.
This will be my favourite post of all time until at least 7.15 tonight, but maybe, just maybe, for a long, long time after that.
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
That's utter rubbish. If RVP is world class then surely Rooney is, they both score around about the same amount of goals and both have a massive influence on their team.
Infact It could be argued Rooney is a better all round player with the amount of positions he can and has played.
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
That's utter rubbish. If RVP is world class then surely Rooney is, they both score around about the same amount of goals and both have a massive influence on their team.
Infact It could be argued Rooney is a better all round player with the amount of positions he can and has played.
Rooney is a jug-earred moron however
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Merse reckons we'll stay up. Nice feature on Sky Sports with Ron, Brian and JG.
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Why have 152 people looked at the post match thread?
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Why have 152 people looked at the post match thread?
Just in case someone's invented time travel, of course.
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Weather update for anyone interested. It was pleasant in town (the weather, not the fecking dawdling tossers), but there is a chill in the air so I still reckon it could be pretty cold during the game.
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Villa 7/1 to win. 4/1 the draw. Worth a couple of quid.
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Just about to set out from Wordsley - made the mistake of reading the stats in the Guardian - My God they are bad...
All the sweeter when we win then ;-)
See you all there!
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Holy crap is that the time? Pub calling.......
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Pub in ten minutes. Gotta sit with a load of bloody plastic mancs who are on holiday and , i dare say, they will be as gobby as ever.
I hate this fixture and i hate the plastic twunts aswell.
Oh well, the beer might help.
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On the bus to The Bartons after a couple in town.
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On the bus to The Bartons after a couple in town.
Lucky you.
I'm mildly optimistic about this one.
I'm gonna go for a 2-1 win for us.
Gabby and Ireland with the goals.
COME ON YOU LIONS .
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I maybe uttering famous last words here but Rooney isn't world class. He had the potential to be as a young kid, but isn't. RVP is though.
That's utter rubbish. If RVP is world class then surely Rooney is, they both score around about the same amount of goals and both have a massive influence on their team.
Infact It could be argued Rooney is a better all round player with the amount of positions he can and has played.
Your nickname isn't fooling anybody Wayne ;)