Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dave on July 09, 2012, 03:55:19 PM
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When it's real, it gets it's own thread rather than staying in the transfer thread dungeon:
PAUL Lambert has confirmed Brad Guzan will challenge for the No.1 jersey at Villa after explaining his reasons for wanting to re-sign the club’s perennial goalkeeping understudy.
Guzan is in the process of finalising a new deal after Lambert offered him the chance to revive his claret and blue career despite his release at the end of last season.
And Lambert insists the 27-year-old American international will be given an equal opportunity to compete with current first choice stopper Shay Given for a first team role.
During his first four years at Villa, Guzan was largely restricted to cup appearances and was used as a Premier League deputy for compatriot Brad Friedel and then Given.
The former Chivas USA keeper impressed during his longest run of league matches midway through last season, but instantly lost his place when Given returned to contention.
And previous Villa manager Alex McLeish sent out a demoralising message to Guzan by insisting Given would always get the nod whenever the experienced Irish international was fit.
But Lambert rates Guzan highly and expects him to provide a strong challenge to Given when he puts pen to paper on a new contract shortly.
“It’s near,” said Lambert.
“I’ve watched Brad and some of his games when he was in the team last year and he was excellent.
“I know he’s always had that stigma of being the No.2 behind some really good goalkeepers here.
“But when you come back at the start of the season nobody knows what’s going to happen and it depends on whoever does well.
“Brad played very well the time he was in and maybe he found himself a bit unlucky to be back out.
“The club needs two or three good goalkeepers, so when Shay comes back from the Euros it will be a big bonus and we’ll see what happens.”
Lambert is demanding competition for places in all departments of his team and insists the players on the fringes are every bit as important as those in the starting line-up.
“If you play well then you make my job harder,” he added.
“Goalkeepers are in a different position because you’ve got two or three vying for the same position, so it can be tough.
“But they chose to play that role! My job is to pick the best one for the team to help us win football matches.
“Whatever happens with the goalkeepers, and the other players for that matter, we need every one of them to be with us.
“The lads who don’t play at a football club are every bit as important as the ones that do play because they’re the ones who have to keep the others on their toes and hopefully not get de-motivated.
“They need to always keep that hunger because you never know when you can get thrown in.”
Meanwhile, contrary to reports, Villa have not bid for Chelsea’s Ryan Bertrand and, although they are believed to be in the market for a new left-back, the youngster is expected to stay at Stamford Bridge in any event.
Lambert is making progress with other transfer targets, although it is also understood there is no substance in continuing rumours from France that Rennes attacking midfielder Yacine Brahimi is poised to join Villa.
I'm fully in agreement with everything Lambert says above. Can't think of many clubs in the league who have a better second-choice (at the moment) goalkeeper.
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almost agree Dave - I think he should be our first choice ;)
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Nice one!
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Lambert saying all the right things again. Good news!
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Will this make Given uneaasy or keep him on his toes??
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I thought Guzan was exceptionally unlucky to lose his place. He commanded his area better, his distribution was quicker and more accurate and he got himself into good enough positions that he didn't have to make the spectacular saves that Given does. So even though Given is the superior reaction-maker and shot-stopper, I'd have had Guzan in overall.
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I'm not sure there is a better penalty stopper in the world than Guzan.
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I'm not sure there is a better penalty stopper in the world than Guzan.
That's also true. If we keep Richard Dunne that'll come in handy.
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A positive move. We need a very good number two.
I remember John E saying that he felt that Given may start the season as number one goalie, but Guzan would be the one who finishes the season there and this is something I agree with.
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I agree with most of all the above comments, its not good to have someone know they are No 1 full stop. Guzan came in and the defence looked more settled with him between the sticks. Given needs to be kept on his toes. His performances in the Euros will not look good on his CV.
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I'm not sure there is a better penalty stopper in the world than Guzan.
That's some statement.
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Guzan did well in the games he played last season, but I think Given justified coming back into the team.
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I'm not sure there is a better penalty stopper in the world than Guzan.
That's also true. If we keep Richard Dunne that'll come in handy.
Zing.
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I thought Guzan was exceptionally unlucky to lose his place. He commanded his area better, his distribution was quicker and more accurate and he got himself into good enough positions that he didn't have to make the spectacular saves that Given does. So even though Given is the superior reaction-maker and shot-stopper, I'd have had Guzan in overall.
Brad Guzan all the way for me over Given and Guzan wasn't unlucky, he wasn't even getting a look in as being no1, TSM clearly saw Given as no1 no matter if Guzan's form was better,which it was at the time as he had conceded 8 goals in the 6 starts he had whilst Given was out, Given in the 6 games before he was injured conceded 12 goals.
Lambert must of reassured Guzan that won't be the case anymore and the best player will play and that was the key factor in Guzan not originally extending his contract with us whilst TSM was still in charge, he clearly wants to stay at the club or he wouldn't of re-signed but he knew he wouldn't get equal opportunity to stake a claim to no1 spot whilst the TSM was still calling the shots.
Every time I hear it mentioned about Givens shot stopping ability when people are trying to defend him, it just reminds me how if he actually dealt with the crosses and corners in the first place he wouldn't have to rely on trying to save the shot from the cross or corner he didn't bother catching or clearing that an opponent then shoots from.
It's like saying a mop cleans up an overflowing tap adequately when it would make more sense to turn the tap off before you need to mop the spill up.
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I'm not sure there is a better penalty stopper in the world than Guzan.
That's also true. If we keep Richard Dunne that'll come in handy.
Zing.
I'm here all week.
It's like saying a mop cleans up an overflowing tap adequately when it would make more sense to turn the tap off before you need to mop the spill up.
Nice analogy. I also like Wenger's where he says that, if you want to stop food getting to a table in a restaurant, is it best to stop the waiter on his way with the food, to stop the waiter getting the food in the first place or the chef from cooking? Seems pretty obvious that way.
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Makes sense. It has saved on 1 signing, the only other choices on a free were Gordon (injury prone and over rated) or Kuszack (already signed elsewhere and still an unknown quantity). The current coaching staff know him and have obviously spoken to Lambert. Also he shouldn't have a problem finding a house in the area.
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I still remember watching the Peace Cup, particularly the final a few years back. Guzan was immense. Just everything about him brought to mind Bosnich in his prime for us. Granted it was pre-season but I just remember him evoking Bossie, against Sunderland in the league lup in 93-4. He just had a couple of bad games against Blackburn later in the season and too many here just seemed to turn on him. But last season he was very good indeed when called upon. Silenced a few doubters.
I think by the time he's 30 he'll be top class. American keepers are normally very reliable.
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He's not really played that much, so I'll reserve a full judgement on him then. Played well when he was brought in over the few games last season though. And it saves us spending money on a new keeper, hopefully Lamberts words will spur Given on
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Wouldn't shock me at all if he starts the season as number one.
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I said when the news broke that he was leaving that it was a mistake. Glad Lambert has got him back into the fold. Great news.
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We should never have let him go.
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Good well that's another area covered, welcome back Brad.
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In what I have seen I am not sure that he is better than a fully fit Given but as the others have said its another area covered for relatively little money............
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I think he wants a fair chance. I think Mcleish was completely wrong last season when he essentially told him no matter how well you do, you're sub. It's completely demotivating and I don't blame him for wanting to leave. Whoever is performing better should be in the team, no special favours.
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I think he wants a fair chance. I think Mcleish was completely wrong last season when he essentially told him no matter how well you do, you're sub. It's completely demotivating and I don't blame him for wanting to leave. Whoever is performing better should be in the team, no special favours.
This, Guzan was superb in the games he played and should have kept the number one position.
I'd start the season with him in goal, he will only get better with games in my opinion.
Given is getting old and injury prone which can be disruptive to the defence.
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I'm happy too that Guzan is back but let's not get too carried away. Given wasn't bad last year, had a comedy defence in front of him and played for a manager that promoted never leaving our own half. Put in a more attack minded philosophy with ball retention at the core and a better set of players protecting him and he's every bit the starter that we bought. No team other than possibly Hull rushed into try and sign Guzan and if he was that good they would have. Now, if during pre-season he proves to be the better goalkeeper, then great and fair play to him. But he still needs to earn that and the nice thing is Lambert will give him every opportunity to do it.
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We should never have let him go.
We didn't really have much choice. He decided not to sign the contract that he was offered.
He's now (for whatever reason) had a change of heart.
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I will clarify that I'm not saying Guzan should be in front of Given. It should just be a fair competition for the number 1 spot.
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Good signing. Well done Villa and Brad, he should keep Given on his toes now.
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Wouldn't shock me at all if he starts the season as number one.
He would be mine.
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PL obviously took one look at Given's performances in the Euros and realized he had a potential problem. Full marks for swift, decisive and correct action.
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I'm not sure this has been confirmed has it?
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I'm not sure this has been confirmed has it?
Read the first post in this thread.
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Very good news. Big fan of his and hopefully will get even better in time.
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Does anyone know whether Guzan was away with the US international side after the end of the season? As opposed to getting the deal done immediately, it was said that Lambert hoped to have him signed up before the US tour. So that implies he's due to come back with the other international players.
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Yes, he was tweeting from the US camp when they were playing.
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Thanks - that explains why it seems to be taking so long.
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PL obviously took one look at Given's performances in the Euros and realized he had a potential problem. Full marks for swift, decisive and correct action.
Once again, I find myself in full agreement with Brian.
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Judging by some of Lambert's quotes I wonder if he'd scouted Guzan last season as a possible addition at Norwich.
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Good news this. He looked very confident when he stepped in last year. Would be happy with him as No. 1.
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If it makes Given uneasy he's at the wrong club
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Am I the only one that think Guzan is nowhere near good enough to be the number one for a reasonable EPL side?
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If your literally thinking 'nowhere near', then quite possibly!
What we saw last season was a vast improvement from him and a good enough no2 with potential to be a regular no1. So I'd be starting Given, but very much doubt we could get anyone better than Guzan as back up.
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Am I the only one that think Guzan is nowhere near good enough to be the number one for a reasonable EPL side?
I don't think he's nowhere near good enough, but I do think he's helped by the 'for the sake of it' mentality that seems to arrive every time a reserve keeper steps in and has a couple of decent games.
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I am among the ranks of you who are pleased about this.
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Am I the only one that think Guzan is nowhere near good enough to be the number one for a reasonable EPL side?
I don't think he's nowhere near good enough, but I do think he's helped by the 'for the sake of it' mentality that seems to arrive every time a reserve keeper steps in and has a couple of decent games.
Agree I think it's somewhere in the middle. Given played very well towards the end of the season and I'm not sure why some people think Guzan should start next season as first choice. It should be based on performance in training etc, if Guzan looks better at the start of the season he should start, if Given looks better he should start.
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I prefer shay at the moment but no doubt guzan has improved a lot and i am happy to let them battle it out for the top spot- competition for places is healthy and fully agree with lambert on everything hes done so far- cant wait for the new season!
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I think it is a good move having guzan back, we needed a new keeper, there probably isnt a better choice available. So getting guzan in saving a transfer fee for a different position is good sense. Plus he is a decent keeper and will finally get a proper chance
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Very happy about this, I think he's a very solid option, he's still young for a keeper and could easily be at the club another 10-12 years, depending on how he keeps himself fit (but american sportsmen tend to be very good at that side of the game).
What impresses me the most is that he had a torrid time under the high ball against Blackburn and was written off by many but then came in last year and looked very strong in those situations so he's clearly seen a flaw and worked on it with the coaches to improve his game. That's a great attitude to have and I think that he's likely to get better and better over the next few years, wouldn't be suprised to see him as first choice within a year.
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Am I the only one that think Guzan is nowhere near good enough to be the number one for a reasonable EPL side?
I don't think he's nowhere near good enough, but I do think he's helped by the 'for the sake of it' mentality that seems to arrive every time a reserve keeper steps in and has a couple of decent games.
It's a little the backup QB mentality that happens in the NFL. As soon as the recognised starter has any kind of issues, whether entirely his fault or not, there is this groundswell of support for the back up. The back up comes in and has a couple of good games and he is seen as being ready. That is until he's named the starter and goes on to prove as to why he was a back up on the first place.
Like I said, I'm glad Guzan is coming back and that he'll get a chance to win the job. But in 8 weeks, nobody signed him when they had the chance and there must be a good reason for that. I just don't think Given was that bad and he had a complete circus in front of him and off the field which didn't help at all.
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Sounds like Cuellar-syndrome to suggest Guzan should be number one.
Given is the best keeper but whoever is in form should get the nod, just as it should be in every other position. Guzan has obviously been given that assurance now. Good to have him back.
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For all the comparing of Given and Guzan and the opinions on how good they both are or not this is a table of stats for keepers who played in the EPL last season that I found online, I removed all the ones who had only played a few games and kept the regulars and I copied it and reordered the list using the "minutes per goal" and "save percentage" (just ignore the other columns) to show how well Given done against other EPL keepers - I left Guzan in there although he only played a handful of games just to show how he did.
Given in green and Guzan in blue.
Minutes per goal
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/andyzthingz2010/minutespergoal.jpg)
Save percentage
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k542/andyzthingz2010/savepercentage.jpg)
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That sample size for Guzan is tiny. Given played 5 times the amount of games. It doesn't tell you anything about opposition, nor the types of goal conceded. It assumes that all conceded goals are the fault of the keeper and doesn't apportion any responsibility to the clowns in front. Guzan played really well at Stoke, but so did the entire defence (for once). He cannot be given all of the credit for that just as Given cannot be held entirely responsible for every goal conceded.
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I wasn't exactly comparing Given and Guzan, (he was just added to show how he done in his few games) more comparing Given and the rest the EPL keepers and my point was more that people keep claiming that Given is a fantastic shot stopper but on the save percentage he was only 13th best in the EPL last season.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
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I wasn't exactly comparing Given and Guzan, (he was just added to show how he done in his few games) more comparing Given and the rest the EPL keepers and my point was more that people keep claiming that Given is a fantastic shot stopper but on the save percentage he was only 13th best in the EPL last season.
Thing is his save percentage doesn't tell you whether he is a good shot stopper or not. I think his reputation is more to do with his agility.
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I'm not sure this has been confirmed has it?
Read the first post in this thread.
I did. The phrases, "Lambert wants to sign" and Lambert saying "its near" suggest it hasn't been finalised. That's why I asked the question!
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Am I the only one that think Guzan is nowhere near good enough to be the number one for a reasonable EPL side?
Our results weren't that bad with him in the side. Won at Chelsea and Bolton and drew 0-0 at Stoke where Guzan was commanding.
Over the xmas period he was in, there wasn't one goal he let in that I thought "yep Given would've saved that."
We should also remember Ruddy was number one at Norwich under Lambert and I reckon Guzan is as good as him.
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I think he's better.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
But he wasn't...
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If we were to see a rumour now that Lambert was planning to buy an unnamed 36yr old keeper for £3.5m on a £50,000 a week long term contract -
Who has had many injuries including several in the last year
Who's agility, speed and reactions aren't as good as they were
Who for a keeper is short
Who isn't very good on dealing with crosses and corners and gambles on saving the shot
Who's shot stopping isn't as good as it once was
Who is known for not controlling and commanding his defenses well
Who would actually welcome that move?
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Alex McLeish?
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If we were to see a rumour now that Lambert was planning to buy an unnamed 36yr old keeper for £3.5m on a £50,000 a week long term contract -
Who has had many injuries including several in the last year
Who's agility, speed and reactions aren't as good as they were
Who for a keeper is short
Who isn't very good on dealing with crosses and corners and gambles on saving the shot
Who's shot stopping isn't as good as it once was
Who is known for not controlling and commanding his defenses well
Who would actually welcome that move?
Depends whether he's been world class for a decade or not.
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Where was all this anguish about Given at the end of last season?
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Where was all this anguish about Given at the end of last season?
This is what I'm slightly confused about. I wouldn't write him off based on Euro 2012, he clearly wasn't fit.
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If we were to see a rumour now that Lambert was planning to buy an unnamed 36yr old keeper for £3.5m on a £50,000 a week long term contract -
Who has had many injuries including several in the last year
Who's agility, speed and reactions aren't as good as they were
Who for a keeper is short
Who isn't very good on dealing with crosses and corners and gambles on saving the shot
Who's shot stopping isn't as good as it once was
Who is known for not controlling and commanding his defenses well
Who would actually welcome that move?
Depends whether he's been world class for a decade or not.
Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
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Where was all this anguish about Given at the end of last season?
I wasn't on here back then but i never wanted given to join the club in the first place and I have been vocal about it, just it wasn't on here.
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If we were to see a rumour now that Lambert was planning to buy an unnamed 36yr old keeper for £3.5m on a £50,000 a week long term contract -
Who has had many injuries including several in the last year
Who's agility, speed and reactions aren't as good as they were
Who for a keeper is short
Who isn't very good on dealing with crosses and corners and gambles on saving the shot
Who's shot stopping isn't as good as it once was
Who is known for not controlling and commanding his defenses well
Who would actually welcome that move?
Depends whether he's been world class for a decade or not.
Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
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Given might still have a couple of good years in him. I thought he was pretty decent for us last season.
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Where was all this anguish about Given at the end of last season?
I wasn't on here back then but i never wanted given to join the club in the first place and I have been vocal about it, just it wasn't on here.
I was on here and I have been vocal for a season. I don't rate Given.
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I was concerned about the length of his very lucrative contract and his recent injury record.
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I was concerned about the length of his very lucrative contract and his recent injury record.
I understand people being concerned about that, and I understand that some people never rated him from the start, what I don't get is why, now, there seem to be far more people so unconvinced by him than there were at the end of the season.
It's almost as if they've seen him in goal for the worst team at the Euros, having a bit of a mare, and decided he was shit last season.
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I like given, just wish he'd command the area a bit more that is all, Guzan has no neck :) but he is a good keeper
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
By that twisted logic, how many people took Guzan in the three months or so it was common knowledge he was available on a free?
Last thing I heard, he was talking to those giants Hull City.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
It's interesting how Given has only ever played behind awful, comedy defences (us, Man City, Newcastle).
It's even more interesting how those awful, comedy defences actually become perfectly competent once a different goalkeeper was playing behind them.
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
Where were the clubs waiting to offer Guzan a contract at the end of the season
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
Where were the clubs waiting to offer Guzan a contract at the end of the season
They were rejected by Guzan because he wanted to come back to Villa.
Hull, Ipswich, etc.
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I don't believe Guzan is a good enough keeper to be a premier league side's first choice. However I do believe they Given isn't going to improve on the frailties that are apparent in his game. He is clearly happier to punch a ball out than catch it, something that Friedel did also but was more adept at. He fears to come off of the line to take charge at set pieces which was a major contributor to our poor defensive record last season. So Guzan has the opportunity to prove us disbelievers wrong.
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
Where were the clubs waiting to offer Guzan a contract at the end of the season
They were rejected by Guzan because he wanted to come back to Villa.
Hull, Ipswich, etc.
Hardly worldbeaters themselves, and if he wanted to come back to Villa why didn't he sign a new contract before now?
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I was concerned about the length of his very lucrative contract and his recent injury record.
I understand people being concerned about that, and I understand that some people never rated him from the start, what I don't get is why, now, there seem to be far more people so unconvinced by him than there were at the end of the season.
It's almost as if they've seen him in goal for the worst team at the Euros, having a bit of a mare, and decided he was shit last season.
Me personally I don't do bandwagons but I do see your point how a lot of peoples opinions have been formed on the Euro's, to me the Euro's compounded my own views further.
I didn't want him to join the club and when he was injured I wanted Guzan to stay in the team till he done something to merit losing his place and that Given shouldn't of got the spot back automatically.
I didn't think we should be buying an aging keeper, with the wages were paying him, with issues to his game and injury problems who had just been dropped from the no1 spot as our no1 keeper - half the pay and no2 spot then OK but not top spot. We should of brought someone else if they was destined to be automatic no1 keeper.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
It's interesting how Given has only ever played behind awful, comedy defences (us, Man City, Newcastle).
It's even more interesting how those awful, comedy defences actually become perfectly competent once a different goalkeeper was playing behind them.
[/b]
Quite! I was trying to put this into words myself.
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
Where were the clubs waiting to offer Guzan a contract at the end of the season
They were rejected by Guzan because he wanted to come back to Villa.
Hull, Ipswich, etc.
Not relevant to previous comments on how good Guzan is or how poor Given is according to some.
Is Guzan falling into the supporters' category of the less they play, the better they are.
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
Where were the clubs waiting to offer Guzan a contract at the end of the season
They were rejected by Guzan because he wanted to come back to Villa.
Hull, Ipswich, etc.
Hardly worldbeaters themselves, and if he wanted to come back to Villa why didn't he sign a new contract before now?
I don't know. If I had to guess, it was a case of hearing the manager offering him the contract insinuating that the other goalkeeper at the club was always going to be first choice and wanted to try his luck elsewhere. Maybe the new manager suggested to him that if he came back and signed the contract that was offered then he would have more opportunities?
As I say, I don't actually know. But I would consider the above to be a fairly good guess.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
It's interesting how Given has only ever played behind awful, comedy defences (us, Man City, Newcastle).
It's even more interesting how those awful, comedy defences actually become perfectly competent once a different goalkeeper was playing behind them.
I agree with that. Newcastle always seemed to be awful defensively whilst he was there and even good players like Toure and Lescott at City ended up looking like muppets in front of Given at times. Not knocking him, I think he's a very good goalkeeper. Just one that is nowhere near the kind of class some people seem to think he's in. I don't believe Guzan is a better player than him. Just one who is going to become harder and harder to usurp and with Given's recent injury record Guzan is going to get more and more chances.
Besides, Bertie seems to see something in him which has lead to Guzan's return and for assurances to be given that were sufficient enough to convince Guzan to come back. I trust his judgement on that.
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I didn't think we should be buying an aging keeper, with the wages were paying him, with issues to his game and injury problems who had just been dropped from the no1 spot as our no1 keeper - half the pay and no2 spot then OK but not top spot. We should of brought someone else if they was destined to be automatic no1 keeper.
I don't think there's a problem with buying an ageing keeper (don't forget, they do last much longer), but I will admit, five years for a keeper at Given's age seemed a pretty big deal. Mind you, Spurs gave Friedel 2 years at the age of 40, so we're not the only ones.
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I don't know. If I had to guess, it was a case of hearing the manager offering him the contract insinuating that the other goalkeeper at the club was always going to be first choice and wanted to try his luck elsewhere. Maybe the new manager suggested to him that if he came back and signed the contract that was offered then he would have more opportunities?
As I say, I don't actually know. But I would consider the above to be a fairly good guess.
I'd say it's more likely that he didn't get a decent offer from anywhere else rather than he refused to sign a contract because he wanted to stay.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
It's interesting how Given has only ever played behind awful, comedy defences (us, Man City, Newcastle).
It's even more interesting how those awful, comedy defences actually become perfectly competent once a different goalkeeper was playing behind them.
Were those defences after, the same as those before
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Maybe he was world class but he isn't now.
Neither is Guzan
Given is only the Irish keeper not exactly the world footballing super power, Guzan is set to be American no1, a team that isn't too far behind ROI in world rankings - also if Given is so world class how come no top club ever brought him, where were the big clubs banging down his door to join them.
Where were the clubs waiting to offer Guzan a contract at the end of the season
They were rejected by Guzan because he wanted to come back to Villa.
Hull, Ipswich, etc.
Hardly worldbeaters themselves, and if he wanted to come back to Villa why didn't he sign a new contract before now?
He was away on international duty with games in May and June and assuming he then had a holiday afterwards and he probably never returned to the UK till July and entered negotiations with Lambert but they had probably already had preliminary discussions before hand.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
It's interesting how Given has only ever played behind awful, comedy defences (us, Man City, Newcastle).
It's even more interesting how those awful, comedy defences actually become perfectly competent once a different goalkeeper was playing behind them.
Were those defences after, the same as those before
Given - Taylor - Coloccini: relegated
Krul - Taylor - Coloccini - one of the most solid defences in the league last year
Given - Collins - Dunne: last season's horror show
Friedel - Collins - Dunne in 09-10: one of the most solid defences in the league
Given is perfectly fine, he's a keeper that's about right for our level. But that's all he is, he's not some sort of superman. He's a keeper who excels at some things, is average at others and is bad at others.
I'd prefer him to Guzan, but there's not a million miles between the two.
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He was away on international duty with games in May and June and assuming he then had a holiday afterwards and he probably never returned to the UK till July and entered negotiations with Lambert but they had probably already had preliminary discussions before hand.
His agent also being busy at the time?
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I don't know. If I had to guess, it was a case of hearing the manager offering him the contract insinuating that the other goalkeeper at the club was always going to be first choice and wanted to try his luck elsewhere. Maybe the new manager suggested to him that if he came back and signed the contract that was offered then he would have more opportunities?
As I say, I don't actually know. But I would consider the above to be a fairly good guess.
I'd say it's more likely that he didn't get a decent offer from anywhere else rather than he refused to sign a contract because he wanted to stay.
Well Steve Bruce has said that he was offered a deal which involved him being their first-choice keeper. And I'm guessing he's not that snobby about it as he has played for Hull before and has previously been in a position which involved him earning $32,000 per year playing for Chivas.
So going on that logic I'm assuming that it's that he has heard something different from Lambert than he originally heard from McLeish. As I've said, it could be wrong but it logically makes more sense as the most obvious change between refusing and accepting rather than 'he came back because nobody else offered him anything'.
If it was a case of 'he couldn't find any other offers', you'd be unlikely to come crawling back seven weeks before the end of the transfer window wouldn't you? You've not really left a huge amount of time to invite those offers.
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I don't know and I really don't care. I do know that he wasn't exactly inundated with offers. As I have said before, he's a good back-up who might one day be good enough to play regularly in the first team.
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With our Laurel and Hardy defence from last season, he needed to be a fantastic shot-stopper.
It's interesting how Given has only ever played behind awful, comedy defences (us, Man City, Newcastle).
It's even more interesting how those awful, comedy defences actually become perfectly competent once a different goalkeeper was playing behind them.
Were those defences after, the same as those before
Given - Taylor - Coloccini: relegated
Krul - Taylor - Coloccini - one of the most solid defences in the league last year
Given - Collins - Dunne: last season's horror show
Friedel - Collins - Dunne in 09-10: one of the most solid defences in the league
Given is perfectly fine, he's a keeper that's about right for our level. But that's all he is, he's not some sort of superman. He's a keeper who excels at some things, is average at others and is bad at others.
I'd prefer him to Guzan, but there's not a million miles between the two.
And a lot of other players in those teams changed as well in the intervening time as well. Man City were the same, the emergence of Kompany and Hart.
Just as Mancini saw that Given was not the long term answer and Hart was, we are in the same position with Given.
Given was bought last season for his experience of being a solid PL keeper. I did not agree with the length of contract based on his salary but perhaps that was what we had to pay to get him. The thought could well have been ..... scrub that, it was McLeish.
The point of the discussion is that 3 appearances for Ireland seem to have changed (in some peoples minds) how good (or not) Given is and, on the flip side, how much better Guzan now is based on the same 3 appearances.
I believe we have two goalkeepers that fit with where we want to go this season. Personally, I believe neither will be our first choice in 2 years time.
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I don't know and I really don't care. I do know that he wasn't exactly inundated with offers
You may well have more clear and accurate information than the rest of us, but do you mind if I ask how and what? Has his agent told you who did and didn't offer him a contract or do you 'know' that nobody did just because he didn't want to sign when McLeish was manager and now it looks like he does?
Obviously if you really don't care enough to bother carrying on discussing it though, that's fine.
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Oh well, all this will probably be a moot point if Guzan does get a crack at the no1 spot sometime next season, especially if Guzan starts the season in the no1 spot and keeps Given on the bench as Given will put in a transfer request as he expects to be automatic no1 and I can't see him accepting he has to give way if Guzan is considered to be the on form keeper and be the no2.
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I don't know and I really don't care. I do know that he wasn't exactly inundated with offers
You may well have more clear and accurate information than the rest of us, but do you mind if I ask how and what? Has his agent told you who did and didn't offer him a contract or do you 'know' that nobody did just because he didn't want to sign when McLeish was manager and now it looks like he does?
Obviously if you really don't care enough to bother carrying on discussing it though, that's fine.
In the same way you 'knew' he rejected offers because he wanted to re-sign,a dded to the fact that there were no reports about them.
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Well Steve Bruce said ""We thought we were close to bringing Brad Guzan here but he's decided to stay in the Premier League". That's a pretty good indicator that he was offered something. And chose to reject it. In favour of coming back to Villa.
But ultimately you're assuming that he didn't have offers in the same way that I'm assuming the change of manager is the most important factor. Rather than either of us actually knowing?
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ooooooh it's a Dave-off - fight! fight! fight!
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Well Steve Bruce said ""We thought we were close to bringing Brad Guzan here but he's decided to stay in the Premier League". That's a pretty good indicator that he was offered something. And chose to reject it. In favour of coming back to Villa.
But ultimately you're assuming that he didn't have offers in the same way that I'm assuming the change of manager is the most important factor. Rather than either of us actually knowing?
I didn't say he was offed nothing. I said that the reported offers were hardly from world-beaters.
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I can happily accept that, but knowing that Guzan has happily played at that level as recently as last year and has played professional football in his career for less money than the average UK national wage I just don't believe that he's be that snobby.
But I'm quite happy to accept that the above opinion could be horribly wrong. I just think that my theory is the more likely -pretty much everyone seems to be of the opinion that having Lambert in charge is much better than having McLeish in charge, I don't think it's a massive stretch to think that Guzan might think so too.
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One of McLeish's (many) mistakes was dropping Guzan as you just knew he wouldn't want to sign a new contract.
I don't think he's anything special, and played a non-role under Friedel, but with Given's injury history we really need a half-decent number 2.
It'd be a headache replacing him, as signing a sub 'keeper often is, and at least we know Guzan isn't going to go Gabor Kiraly on us.
And if he does manage to get the number 1 jersey on merit then he'll have done a fine job.
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I think a lot of us began to doubt Guzan the night of the 6-4 semi against Blackburn. He looked quite ropey that night. But he has really recovered since then and looked solid when he was in the side last year.
I'm happy to think Lambert will et himself and Given slog it out for the Number One shirt. That said, I still think that shirt is Given's until either his form dips or he gets injured. Then it'll be Guzan's turn and if he plays well it'll be up to Given to warm the bench.
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My last words on the matter as I have been going on about the goalkeeping situation all last season.
Given is an average keeper with a number of flaws to his game.
Guzan, also an average keeper, makes a number of mistakes, however, he has fewer habitual flaws.
At their respective ages, the mistakes can be ironed out, the flaws cannot.
Based on performances I think that Guzan was unlucky to lose his place last season and deserved a run in the side. I hope he is now given (pun) that chance.
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Yes, but as he actually re-signed yet?
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Not a big Guzan fan myself. An okay number 2 though and I think he thought that he'd get better elsewhere to be a number 1 at a club challenging higher than what he has probably been offered. that saying he probably has listened to what lambert has to say and has been swayed byt he prospect of fighting for the Villa keeping berth. i just don'think he's good enough. He is very poor under the ball and Blackburn badly exposed him the semi a coupel of seasons ago.
A couple of years contract at best and if he hasn't signed yet its probably because he wants to keep the door open. i wouldn't slam it shut if I was Lambert either by giving a time limit. If he signs, great - he's on the bench. if not, great - we'll work with what we've got.
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if not, great - we'll work with what we've got.
Would that be Andy Marshall then, our third choice keeper last couple of seasons, released by Coventry and rejected by Charlton and hasn't, as far as I'm aware, started a EPL game for 10 years.
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if not, great - we'll work with what we've got.
Would that be Andy Marshall then, our third choice keeper last couple of seasons, released by Coventry and rejected by Charlton and hasn't, as far as I'm aware, started a EPL game for 10 years.
The keeper in the reserves is meant to be good, the young kid, Seabiscuit or whatever his name is.
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if not, great - we'll work with what we've got.
Would that be Andy Marshall then, our third choice keeper last couple of seasons, released by Coventry and rejected by Charlton and hasn't, as far as I'm aware, started a EPL game for 10 years.
The keeper in the reserves is meant to be good, the young kid, Seabiscuit or whatever his name is.
He's in the Olympics squad.
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I think its Seacrest. And it depends on when he gets clearance from presenting US Idol.
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Callum Barrett is overtaking Seabiscuit in the reckoning now I reckon.
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Not a big Guzan fan myself. An okay number 2 though and I think he thought that he'd get better elsewhere to be a number 1 at a club challenging higher than what he has probably been offered. that saying he probably has listened to what lambert has to say and has been swayed byt he prospect of fighting for the Villa keeping berth. i just don'think he's good enough. He is very poor under the ball and Blackburn badly exposed him the semi a coupel of seasons ago.
A couple of years contract at best and if he hasn't signed yet its probably because he wants to keep the door open. i wouldn't slam it shut if I was Lambert either by giving a time limit. If he signs, great - he's on the bench. if not, great - we'll work with what we've got.
You didn't watch the Stoke game last season then?
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if not, great - we'll work with what we've got.
Would that be Andy Marshall then, our third choice keeper last couple of seasons, released by Coventry and rejected by Charlton and hasn't, as far as I'm aware, started a EPL game for 10 years.
The keeper in the reserves is meant to be good, the young kid, Seabiscuit or whatever his name is.
No doubt Benjamin Siegrist is one to watch over the next couple seasons but he needs time to be eased in to the team, I wouldn't want to rely on Marshall or Siegrist - a has been who never really was and a complete novice in EPL terms - as no2 at this time.
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Not sure why we're suddenly anti-Given on the back of a poor couple of games in the Euros. He was arguably our best player by some distance last season. Not sure how ireland got a look-in from the fans but there you go. He is comfortably our bestkeeper and if we are to replace him sooner rather than later it will be by a keeper a lot better than Guzan.
As for Stoke, yes he did well. But you knew they'd score from a header. And they did.
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Not sure why we're suddenly anti-Given on the back of a poor couple of games in the Euros. He was arguably our best player by some distance last season.
This
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Yep - it's still Given's jersey to lose!
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Not sure why we're suddenly anti-Given on the back of a poor couple of games in the Euros. He was arguably our best player by some distance last season.
This
Said the same myself earlier in the thread.
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As for Stoke, yes he did well. But you knew they'd score from a header. And they did.
It was 0-0 wasn't it ????
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Not sure why we're suddenly anti-Given on the back of a poor couple of games in the Euros. He was arguably our best player by some distance last season.
This
My only niggling doubt is Givens ability to command his six yard box.....especially from corners.....despit our back four being poor last year I still think that the keepers inability to dominate his 'space' made everyone nervous.
I do think that as a shot stopper he is one of the greatest ever to play in the EPL but for me we need an imposing keeper that dominates everyone around him and makes the back four confident that he will come and collect when required.
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Didn't he play in the 1-1? If not then Given did well.
As for the 0-0 that was lacking in any type of action that I'd go as far to say that Stephen Hawking could have played in goal for us and we'd have been okay.
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Not sure why we're suddenly anti-Given on the back of a poor couple of games in the Euros. He was arguably our best player by some distance last season.
This
Said the same myself earlier in the thread.
agreed, i wonder if Man Utd fans are worried about Rooney because of his poor showing in the Euro's
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My main problem with Given is that he is the kind of keeper that prefers to gamble on saving a shot from a cross rather than dealing with the cross itself.
The odds on an opponent scoring are dramatically increased by allowing him to shoot - if you stop the ball getting to the player in the first place then they can't shoot, it's as simple as that and doesn't take a genius to work out - it's not a new issue he has played his whole career like that and I'm not just basing my opinion on the Euros, although that highlighted his flaws, including the well known fact throughout his career that he lacks skill in organizing and commanding his defense.
I've always thought he was overrated and as he has got older he has had more injuries which is a problem and clearly he won't be as agile at 36 as he was at 26. Some say he is world class but I question where are all this world class clubs waving their cheque books at him.
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Given is inhibited by his style, and it will cause sides to concede more goals that with keepers that have better command of their area. As an overall package, with the contract he is on, and his relative ability, I would move him on ASAP.
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Given is inhibited by his style, and it will cause sides to concede more goals that with keepers that have better command of their area. As an overall package, with the contract he is on, and his relative ability, I would move him on ASAP.
With this in mind, Paddy Kenny has left QPR and they were reported to be looking at Given earlier in the summer.
*fingers crossed*
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He is very poor under the ball and Blackburn badly exposed him the semi a coupel of seasons ago.
Which is the only game that anybody is really able to throw at him. It was a bit of a horror show, but prior to that everyone was extremely positive about Guzan. The Sunderland and Prague games were as good as any goalkeeping displays as we've had in the last decade or so. He then had that one awful game and has been perfectly good whenever called upon since.
As for your poor recollection of the Stoke games, Guzan played in both - and played far better in the 0-0 than he did in the 1-1.
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Given is inhibited by his style, and it will cause sides to concede more goals that with keepers that have better command of their area. As an overall package, with the contract he is on, and his relative ability, I would move him on ASAP.
With this in mind, Paddy Kenny has left QPR and they were reported to be looking at Given earlier in the summer.
*fingers crossed*
Not going to happen. Lambert has been sticking up for him and rightly so. Out of all the positions where we need to strengthen it amazes me we're discussing this.
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Given is inhibited by his style, and it will cause sides to concede more goals that with keepers that have better command of their area. As an overall package, with the contract he is on, and his relative ability, I would move him on ASAP.
With this in mind, Paddy Kenny has left QPR and they were reported to be looking at Given earlier in the summer.
*fingers crossed*
They brought Robert Green in on a free instead.
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They brought Robert Green in on a free instead.
I must've missed this one.
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Not sure why we're suddenly anti-Given on the back of a poor couple of games in the Euros. He was arguably our best player by some distance last season.
The problem with International football and Shrek is that if he if off form red nose does not hestitate to drop him to the bench or worse - at National level any manager that dares drop him, no matter how much he stinks the place out, writes his own death warrant with the media
This
Said the same myself earlier in the thread.
agreed, i wonder if Man Utd fans are worried about Rooney because of his poor showing in the Euro's
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i have never known any other player to be constantly judged on one bad game he played 3 years ago, seems like he will always be defined by that game for some.
i have seen both Friedel and Given flap about in games over the last 3 years, but it hardly gets a mention, and it doesnt make them bad keepers
in Guzans case, he leaned from it and was perfect when up against the same sort of onslaught against Stoke last season, you cant ask much more than that
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He is very poor under the ball and Blackburn badly exposed him the semi a coupel of seasons ago.
As for your poor recollection of the Stoke games, Guzan played in both - and played far better in the 0-0 than he did in the 1-1.
I'm sure Given was in goal for the home game ???
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He is very poor under the ball and Blackburn badly exposed him the semi a coupel of seasons ago.
As for your poor recollection of the Stoke games, Guzan played in both - and played far better in the 0-0 than he did in the 1-1.
I'm sure Given was in goal for the home game ???
You're right - he was. I managed to mis-read the BBC match report that I checked when making my original post.
So to sum up, Guzan did better in the away game against Stoke than Given did in the home game. Sorted.
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I expected my text message by now. I wonder what the hold up is. Marshall's in goal for Saturday BTW.
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He is very poor under the ball and Blackburn badly exposed him the semi a coupel of seasons ago.
As for your poor recollection of the Stoke games, Guzan played in both - and played far better in the 0-0 than he did in the 1-1.
I'm sure Given was in goal for the home game ???
You're right - he was. I managed to mis-read the BBC match report that I checked when making my original post.
So to sum up, Guzan did better in the away game against Stoke than Given did in the home game. Sorted.
Correct
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The away game where little happened or the home game where Given played well against a barrage of throws and long balls?
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I recall Guzan being poor against Blackburn in 3 games in that season, home and away in the league cup and home in the league, otherwise he has done fine.
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We won the away leg in the LC 0-1 ???
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The problem with International football and Shrek is that if he if off form red nose does not hestitate to drop him to the bench or worse - at National level any manager that dares drop him, no matter how much he stinks the place out, writes his own death warrant with the media.
And when he is dropped by red scum than he does not moan or complain - now i bet most of the other prima donnas would be on to their agents in quicktime
As for Given he is certainly in the top league when it comes to keepers, his lack of box / area management is evident in most keepers nowadays and i am sure it is more to do with the flight of the modern balls than anything else.
I played at a very good level as a keeper and in the old days a good keeper predicts when the ball is kicked the flight of it into the area and once he goes for it he leaves the goal exposed (Last of the old style keepers to do this was David James - and look at the bollocks he dropped when he got it wrong) with the new balls and the way they move in the air it is even more difficult so keepers now err on the side of caution and do not commit to crosses like they used to
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The problem with International football and Shrek is that if he if off form red nose does not hestitate to drop him to the bench or worse - at National level any manager that dares drop him, no matter how much he stinks the place out, writes his own death warrant with the media.
And when he is dropped by red scum than he does not moan or complain - now i bet most of the other prima donnas would be on to their agents in quicktime
As for Given he is certainly in the top league when it comes to keepers, his lack of box / area management is evident in most keepers nowadays and i am sure it is more to do with the flight of the modern balls than anything else.
I played at a very good level as a keeper and in the old days a good keeper predicts when the ball is kicked the flight of it into the area and once he goes for it he leaves the goal exposed (Last of the old style keepers to do this was David James - and look at the bollocks he dropped when he got it wrong) with the new balls and the way they move in the air it is even more difficult so keepers now err on the side of caution and do not commit to crosses like they used to
I too played at a relatively high level and I agree on the flight of the ball. The other side of the coin though is that in my day we didn't have the gloves they wear nowadays. Put some on recently for fun, I'm not sure how a keeper manages to drop a ball, it seems to stick to the gloves.
That's not a comment on the Given -v- Guzan discussion (I have had my say on that) just a general observation re goalkeeping.
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Has the fucker re-signed yet?
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According to Wiki the announcement about his return was made on 4th June...
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won't he just join the club when they head out to the US? No rush. I'm sure he'll be in the starting line up when they play against Chicago.
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"I've watched Brad and some of his games when he was in the team last year and he was excellent," said Lambert.
"I know he's always had the stigma of being the No.2 behind some really good goalkeepers here.
"But when you come back at the start of the season nobody knows what's going to happen and it depends on whoever does well.
"Brad played very well the time he was in and maybe he found himself a bit unlucky to be back out.
"The club needs two or three good goalkeepers."
Sounds like he has re-signed.
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I recall Guzan being poor against Blackburn in 3 games in that season, home and away in the league cup and home in the league, otherwise he has done fine.
Guzan wouldn't have played in the league that season as we still had Friedel and he hasn't missed a Premier League game since William the Conquerer was around
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I recall Guzan being poor against Blackburn in 3 games in that season, home and away in the league cup and home in the league, otherwise he has done fine.
Guzan wouldn't have played in the league that season as we still had Friedel and he hasn't missed a Premier League game since William the Conquerer was around
It was the FA Cup game which we won 3-1 in which he was supposedly poor. In which he saved a penalty and we won comfortably.
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Sounds like he has re-signed.
No text message? I suppose they'll send one out randomly when everyone's just assuming it's all done and dusted.
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Just to clarify, with people making claims about the Blackburn games, these are the games Guzan has been included in the squad against Blackburn.
09/10
26/09/09 - Prem Away L 2-1 (unused sub)
02/01/10 - FAC Home W 3-1 (started)
14/01/10 - CC Away W 1-0 (started)
20/01/10 - CC Home W 6-4 (started)
09/05/10 - Prem Home L 1-0 (unused sub)
10/11
22/09/10 - CC Home W 3-1 (started)
Brad started in our 4 wins over Blackburn, he didn't play in the 2 loses.
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He can still play poorly but the team wins.
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He can still play poorly but the team wins.
True, but if people are quoting three games in which he played badly and in one he kept a clean sheet and in another he saved a penalty you have to wonder if their memory is fading a bit.
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He can still play poorly but the team wins.
True, but if people are quoting three games in which he played badly and in one he kept a clean sheet and in another he saved a penalty you have to wonder if their memory is fading a bit.
And in one he conceded four goals (by the same measure)
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I'm not saying Guzan is a poor keeper. he's not he's a good number 2. Nor am I saying Given is the dog's bollocks. He's not but he's a good prem keeper.
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He can still play poorly but the team wins.
True, but if people are quoting three games in which he played badly and in one he kept a clean sheet and in another he saved a penalty you have to wonder if their memory is fading a bit.
And in one he conceded four goals (by the same measure)
Quite and it was as bad as any goalkeeping performance I remember seeing. But I don't think that anyone would dispute that one. It's the fallacy that he was bad in the others, when he wasn't.
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He was poor in the first league. He was poor in his last game before being dropped last season. Which poor Given performances for Villa stand out?
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He was poor in the first league. He was poor in his last game before being dropped last season. Which poor Given performances for Villa stand out?
Really? Which of the one goal that Bolton scored or the two that Swansea scored do you feel he should have stopped? I assume you're not talking about the actual first league game when he kept a clean sheet against Man Utd.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make with your second statement as I don't recall saying Guzan should be playing ahead of Given.
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He was poor in the first league. He was poor in his last game before being dropped last season. Which poor Given performances for Villa stand out?
Really? Which of the one goal that Bolton scored or the two that Swansea scored do you feel he should have stopped? I assume you're not talking about the actual first league game when he kept a clean sheet against Man Utd.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make with your second statement as I don't recall saying Guzan should be playing ahead of Given.
Crap typing I missed 'Cup semi'. Yes it was Swansea. Very poor positioning for Routledge's goal and looked a little at sea.
My point regarding the second statement is that you can pick up Guzan's bad performances and there have (arguably) been a few. You can't with Given. Therefore, we shouldn't be entertaining the idea that he should come back to vie for the number 1 shirt because he's not good enough to be a consistently top Prem keeper.
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we shouldn't be entertaining the idea that he should come back to vie for the number 1 shirt
Lambert's entertaining that idea though.
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Just to clarify, with people making claims about the Blackburn games, these are the games Guzan has been included in the squad against Blackburn.
09/10
26/09/09 - Prem Away L 2-1 (unused sub)
02/01/10 - FAC Home W 3-1 (started)
14/01/10 - CC Away W 1-0 (started)
20/01/10 - CC Home W 6-4 (started)
09/05/10 - Prem Home L 1-0 (unused sub)
10/11
22/09/10 - CC Home W 3-1 (started)
Brad started in our 4 wins over Blackburn, he didn't play in the 2 loses.
I like Guzan, I really do.
However, his performance in the Blackburn 6-4 game was almost certainly the biggest horror show I've ever seen from a goalkeeper at any level.
The fact that the team won regardless is irrelevant.
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we shouldn't be entertaining the idea that he should come back to vie for the number 1 shirt
Lambert's entertaining that idea though.
And quiet rightly so - not just Given but every player should be under no illusion - drop your form and you are out
Should be no automatic choices anywhere - including Bent
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Whilst i agree with your point hookey int he main goalkeepers are different. it is very seldom at any team anywhere that you have two keepers fighting for one spot. tehre is always (usually) a number one and the bloke on the bench is either the understudy or just to come on in case of injuries. Therefore, you need a Guzan to be happy with his lot as a number 2 and to cover the number 1.
The problem I have have is Guzan coming back and potentially being a number 1. I just don't think he's consistently good enough. I'd rather get a great keeper to replace Given then potentially hand over to a keeper that has only found Championship sides knocking on his door. he is no better than boaz Myhill who when he left had a few great games for Hull, eventually got found wanting and seems to be back being a number 2 again. i think that's Guzan's lot.
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Some interesting variations in opinion here and it will be interesting to see who ends up proven right. My feeling is that Guzan is maturing into a very fine goalkeeper and by the time he is 30 he will be Villa's No. 1.
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However, his performance in the Blackburn 6-4 game was almost certainly the biggest horror show I've ever seen from a goalkeeper at any level.
I would direct you to Martin Fulop's final appearance for WBA vs Arsenal for the actual biggest horror show from a goalkeeper
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Whilst i agree with your point hookey int he main goalkeepers are different. it is very seldom at any team anywhere that you have two keepers fighting for one spot. tehre is always (usually) a number one and the bloke on the bench is either the understudy or just to come on in case of injuries. Therefore, you need a Guzan to be happy with his lot as a number 2 and to cover the number 1.
The problem I have have is Guzan coming back and potentially being a number 1. I just don't think he's consistently good enough. I'd rather get a great keeper to replace Given then potentially hand over to a keeper that has only found Championship sides knocking on his door. he is no better than boaz Myhill who when he left had a few great games for Hull, eventually got found wanting and seems to be back being a number 2 again. i think that's Guzan's lot.
To write someone off on a handful of games as a number 2 forever more is very harsh, especially when in some of those games they have been very impressive. It is like saying Given is completely past it based on the Euros. Given probably has 12 months or so of top keeping left, and by then I reckon Guzan will be number 1.
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Given's injury record suggests that we'll probably need someone else between the sticks at some point during the league campaign next year.
Would anyone really want Marshall in goal?
Given's fine for a while, he was very good last season. But I'm sure there'll be a team when we regret giving him that contract.
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Whilst i agree with your point hookey int he main goalkeepers are different. it is very seldom at any team anywhere that you have two keepers fighting for one spot. tehre is always (usually) a number one and the bloke on the bench is either the understudy or just to come on in case of injuries. Therefore, you need a Guzan to be happy with his lot as a number 2 and to cover the number 1.
That's not true. Off the top of my head Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Newcastle, Fulham and Sunderland have all had goal keeper changes to some degree within their squad over recent years.
Spurs have had three established, experienced goalkeepers on their books for the past year.
Guzan might turn out to be half decent, he might only be an OK understudy. What's the harm in keeping him to compete with Given? Chances are he'll play at some point next season, if he impresses (like he did last season, IMO) then he'll keep his place. It creates a competitive environment and if Shay has taken his foot off the gas then that will give him a kick up the arse.
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As another point, which reserve team keepers would people choose over Guzan? I reckon probably Lindegaard and then I'm struggling.
If Chelsea are getting by with Turnbull and Arsenal with Fabianski, having somebody as reliable as Guzan is an absolute blessing.
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Maybe Cudicini at Spurs although he's always been weak on crosses.
I like Westwood at Sunderland aswell.
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While we're onto a tangent like this, I think Stoke are quite well off.
They're the only club I can think who genuinely have two keepers who can challenge to be first choice (echoing an earlier point of peter w's).
Neither are ones I would be desperate to have here, but at least they are both in a position of knowing that if they do badly then they are at risk of being replaced. Which can only be a good thing.
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Yes, I always liked Sorensen.
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SSN showed a table the other day, of which clubs had the biggest net spend over something like that the last 5 years. Arsenal were bottom having actually made more in player sales than spent in purchases. As you would imagine, Man City were top. Both us and Stoke were in the top 5.
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SSN showed a table the other day, of which clubs had the biggest net spend over something like that the last 5 years. Arsenal were bottom having actually made more in player sales than spent in purchases. As you would imagine, Man City were top. Both us and Stoke were in the top 5.
I'd be quite surprised if that were that case.
We brought in £60m through the sales of Milner, Young and Downing.
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This isn't the same table as it's over 10 years but it's quite interesting none-the-less. http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/08/12/arsenals-net-spending-of-48m-in-a-decade-puts-them-9th-in-premier-league-120802/
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SSN showed a table the other day, of which clubs had the biggest net spend over something like that the last 5 years. Arsenal were bottom having actually made more in player sales than spent in purchases. As you would imagine, Man City were top. Both us and Stoke were in the top 5.
I'd be quite surprised if that were that case.
We brought in £60m through the sales of Milner, Young and Downing.
That's pretty much all we've sold though. I think those three and Knight are the only players we've bought and sold for a profit under Lerner. Pretty much everyone else gone for free or a nominal fee like Sidwell and Shorey.
Only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head are Davies and Luke Young, and even they went for less than we paid.
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Yes, I always liked Sorensen.
Except in derbies.
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True.
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Has he signed yet and if not will he be going on the US tour tomorrow??
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Has he signed yet and if not will he be going on the US tour tomorrow??
He'll sign when we are in the US. He played for Chicago Fire initially in MLS and I'll put money on him starting that game with Shay playing the first game in Philadelphia.
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Villa have just announced he is in the squad for the USA tour.
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What has happened to Allbrighton - sorry if I missed it but he is not listed in the US squad ??
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And no Hutton either!
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Injured. I think he has broken his foot.
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Injured. I think he has broken his foot.
Thanks for the update
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@bguzan: Excited to be going back to villa and what the future holds! Was a relaxing break,but looking forward to seeing the boys today!
Welcome back Brad !
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All done
@AVFCOfficial: Brad Guzan joins Villa on US tour after signing new contract. http://t.co/Ez5vRh8P #AVFC #LambertLions
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From his twitter looks like Brad has been in Chicago holidaying with his family so that would of been what was delaying the announcement that Brad was back at the club.
Good to see it being made official now - welcome back.
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Welcome back Brad.
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Sensible move all round.
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Welcome back Brad!
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Glad this is now sorted - good move for the club and for the player!
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Good.Should have never gone in the first place.
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Welcome back Little Brad.
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Welcome back our No1 for next 10 years...
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Nice one Brad
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Welcome back Brad, i have a feeling he will get more games than the odd cup game unless Given's form improves.
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Glad he's back. Now its up to him to fight for his place.
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Welcome back Brad.
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Welcome back, Bradders.
I hope Lambert gives him a fair chance, and picks his No. 1 based on an honest assessment, but I still don't think he's better than Given.