Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on April 05, 2012, 05:02:15 PM
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sportinglife.com
Aston Villa boss Alex McLeish is confident he will not suffer the misery of being relegated from the Barclays Premier League for the second successive season.
McLeish went down as Birmingham boss last May with Wolves pushing them into the bottom three on the final day of the campaign.
Now Villa find themselves only five points above the drop zone and with eight senior players sidelined through injury or illness ahead of Saturday's clash at Liverpool.
Asked about the prospect of back-to-back relegations, McLeish said: "I don't believe it will happen. That is my school of thought. I know the media will bring it up, that's fine, I can handle that.
"It will maybe be on the tip of everyone's tongue. It is not something I believe will happen.
"I'm sure the players will think about it as well, as they are only human. They were in a battle last season, so they've been through it, and they've got to do it again this season.
"Every week will be a battle but we are only three points off West Brom, and have a game in hand."
McLeish admits he expected this season to be a testing time in what he has stressed is a transitional period for the club.
He said: "I never thought it was going to be easy this season. We have a lighter squad than Villa had this time last season.
"I knew from that point of view it was going to be a big challenge again.
"But I'm confident the players can rise to the challenge and make sure we are okay this season."
McLeish has revealed his determination to show leadership to his players while coping with the setbacks suffered by Fabrice Muamba and Stiliyan Petrov in recent weeks.
Bolton midfielder Muamba, who played under McLeish at Birmingham, suffered a cardiac arrest last month but is making a good recovery, while Villa skipper Petrov has been diagnosed with acute leukaemia.
The Scot said: "You have to show that you still have the focus, the passion, everything that goes with concentrating on the game itself.
"You get these traumatic times in life and you have to deal with them.
"You move forward and show leadership and get everybody playing to the best of their ability and believing in themselves."
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I don't think we'll go - but say we get 1 point from Liverpool, Stoke and Man Utd - reckon he'll see out the season?
Morale would be so low it'd be difficult to justify not sacking him and putting KMac in charge.
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Last season was pish, but I never once thought we'd go down. I can't say I'm that confident this time around.
This is an exercise in diminishing expectation, a bit like O'Leary used to do (with DOL operating on a never-before-seen scale).
He's right about our squad being lighter though, you can't deny that. Any squad would miss Young & Downing - that's what he really wants to say here. However, what's really cost us this season is our inability to defend, especially set pieces, and that's something he needs to own up to along with a poor attitude to playing perceived 'bigger' clubs.
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He's quite the Mr Motivator isn't he?
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I thought we were goners after the Wolves home game last season. Left the ground in near tears as I really did think we looked doomed. Yet to feel close to that this season, and long may it stay that way!
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Is our squad lighter though? Last season we only had Makoun and Bent for just over a third of the campaign, and whilst we had Young and Downing we did not have N'Zogbia or Ireland (albeit due to the managers decision not to consider the latter for selection).
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I'll say it again.
If the lightness of the squad was a problem, why did he get rid of Makoun?
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yes were is makoun
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Wages?
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See? Everything is fine. He doesn't believe relegation will happen.
What more could any Villa fan ask for?
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Panic over
we can sleep soundly in our beds knowing the ginger one has got it all under control!
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Makoun left to make room for a "different" type of midfielder (as McLeish put it)
which basically meant the wages were freed up to complete the shrewd signing of Jermaine Jenas. Makoun is at Olympiakos for the rest of the season and a decision will be made on him apparently in the summer
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Garbage
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Thanks Alex. I'm so relieved.
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Fuck he is so negative. It has infected the whole place.We all knew this would be a tough season. Austerity is tough but a sunny side up manager would keep things going along. The narrative would be 'transition, we're looking at progressing next season, we're identifying areas of the squad we want to strengthen as we want to challenge again. Looking to build on this transitional season'.
But because he's so negative in every way, the fans and (I am guessing some of the players) just can't buy into any aspect of it and we now find ourselves fighting to maintain our 25 year stint in the top flight.
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Banging on about it 'ad nauseam' solves nothing.
He has lost the players,the fans and everyone else.
I wish i could find the words but i am struggling.
Utter disgrace to our proud football club.
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Starting to sound like he's had enough to me.
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Starting to sound like he's had enough to me.
Pleeeease sack me.
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Makoun left to make room for a "different" type of midfielder (as McLeish put it)
which basically meant the wages were freed up to complete the shrewd signing of Jermaine Jenas. Makoun is at Olympiakos for the rest of the season and a decision will be made on him apparently in the summer
One of the best passers at the club.
Must have made McLeish sick to the stomach.
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sportinglife.com
The Scot said: "You have to show that you still have the focus, the passion, everything that goes with concentrating on the game itself.
"You get these traumatic times in life and you have to deal with them.
"You move forward and show leadership and get everybody playing to the best of their ability and believing in themselves."
Focus on being crap, passion about being average, and moving forward to relegation and believing your a good manager. Talks the talk but not the walking the walk. Utter garbage laughing his way to the bank.
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He's not going to get me renewing my three chipped Villa mugs at the online shop with that sort of talk. NO.FUCKING.WAY.
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Lets hope he knows what he's talking about, because if he doesn't then when we are languishing in the Championship next season and he's well out of it, its the fans and the financial shape of the club that will suffer most.
All looks a bit desperate to me, wasn't it only a few short weeks ago he was saying there was no chance of us getting relegated and there was great unity in the squad and everyone was pulling together.
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Pravda soundbites.
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Desperate is the word!
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I always thought Grease was the word.
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I always thought Grease was the word.
Not in B6
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I must admit, i'm not too sure about the 'We're only three points off West Brom' comment. Even being on 36 points would'nt be good enough.
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"McLeish confident of avoiding the drop"
I advocate dismissal - not the hangman's noose.
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I must admit, i'm not too sure about the 'We're only three points off West Brom' comment. Even being on 36 points would'nt be good enough.
Worse than that, trying to say being only 3 points from West Brom is a good thing FFS?! They are in the shit too, and we should be 5-6 points above them you pillock!!
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We should never be hearing those words in the first place. What has happened to us? Why did I come on to this thread? I should have stayed on the one with the Sheff Wed clip. Fuckin hell.
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The thing that really annoys me about this is him saying that he expected us to be in the relegation fight. We're in a similar position to blues last year and at the start of the season he made a big deal about how much better our squad was than the one they had. I'm absolutely certain that he's lost the plot and is doing everything he can to try protect his job.
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The thing that really annoys me about this is him saying that he expected us to be in the relegation fight. We're in a similar position to blues last year and at the start of the season he made a big deal about how much better our squad was than the one they had. I'm absolutely certain that he's lost the plot and is doing everything he can to try protect his job.
He has completely, and his every utterance at the moment is to cover his own backside.
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No matter what he says he is wrong. It is a feeding frenzy.
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I must admit, i'm not too sure about the 'We're only three points off West Brom' comment. Even being on 36 points would'nt be good enough.
Worse than that, trying to say being only 3 points from West Brom is a good thing FFS?! They are in the shit too, and we should be 5-6 points above them you pillock!!
He hasn't got a fucking clue, he needs to go.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
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Our support or lack of for the manager has nothing to do with us staying up.
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Yup, I'll give my vocal backing to the team during games, the manager should be tolerated until we are safe, Then he should be be horsewhipped out the back door.
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No matter what he says he is wrong. It is a feeding frenzy.
Until we start winning some games that is going to be the way of it i'm afraid. It's also one of the many reasons why he should not have been appointed in the first place.
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Also here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/06/alex-mcleish-aston-villa-relegation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/06/alex-mcleish-aston-villa-relegation) - McLeish trying to defend his position; as anyone would surely expect him to do.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
Rubbish. Sack this useless buffoon and the fans will unite. It's so bloody obvious.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
The first 7 words of your post says it all.
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Banging on about it 'ad nauseam' solves nothing.
He has lost the players,the fans and everyone else.
I wish i could find the words but i am struggling.
Utter disgrace to our proud football club.
Unfortunately Randy has blind faith in him and Faulkner.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
Not sure how backing a shockingly bad manager is going to keep us up. If we back him will he suddenly find some ability and some balls from somewhere?
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He will find a few in our net on Saturday.
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Also here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/06/alex-mcleish-aston-villa-relegation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/06/alex-mcleish-aston-villa-relegation) - McLeish trying to defend his position; as anyone would surely expect him to do.
I didn't read it as him trying to defend his position, he's still turning a blind eye to any responsibility for this cataclysmic mess we're in. He deflects the blame and attention on to the players with every breath he takes! The more he talks, the more he proves that's he'a not just a poor manager, completely out of his depth in the Premier League, he's also a spineless coward.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
Its not rocket science is it? And given the stage of the season we are at, I simply don't see any other alternative to this.
Hold the inquest on the season when its finished, not whilst we are in dire straits.
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Getting rid of him would lift the fans and players. I'm convinced of it. You'd see bigger crowds at VP too.
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Getting rid of him would lift the fans and players. I'm convinced of it. You'd see bigger crowds at VP too.
This is true but whether he's here or not were still in the absolute shit with injuries and it's going to be a real struggle
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Oh please piss off McLeish and take Lerner and Falkner with you.
I'm afraid I'm never going to get excited about only been 3 points off West Brom. West Brom are terrible and we are worse.
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Oh please piss off McLeish and take Lerner and Falkner with you.
And replace Randy with who exactly?
I've got my doubts about Paul Faulkner if i'm honest but somehow between them they've made a mess of this appointment.
Does anyone remember Sir Graham's half time team talk at Crewe when we were 2-0 down in the F.A Cup back in 1990? Well maybe someone needs to say that to Lerner and Faulkner.
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
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not whilst we are in dire straits.
Our 'Manager' certainly seems to earn money for nothing.
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not whilst we are in dire straits.
Our 'Manager' certainly seems to earn money for nothing.
'When's Randy gonna realise it was just that Mcleish was wrong, oh Juliet'.
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
It's easy to say 'we can do better' but how many better owners are there, and how many more are available?
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not whilst we are in dire straits.
Our 'Manager' certainly seems to earn money for nothing.
'When's Randy gonna realise it was just that Mcleish was wrong, oh Juliet'.
I think we're going to get twisted by the 'Pool tomorrow.
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not whilst we are in dire straits.
Our 'Manager' certainly seems to earn money for nothing.
'When's Randy gonna realise it was just that Mcleish was wrong, oh Juliet'.
I think we're going to get twisted by the 'Pool tomorrow.
That's very good. (clappy clappy)
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not whilst we are in dire straits.
Our 'Manager' certainly seems to earn money for nothing.
'When's Randy gonna realise it was just that Mcleish was wrong, oh Juliet'.
I think we're going to get twisted by the 'Pool tomorrow.
And McLeish goes to bed every night singing Money For Nothing.
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I trust Randy will launch his own Private Investigation in the summer.
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Im embarrassed you lot know Dire strait songs ;)
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It's not the least bit embarrassing! But I digress...
The main thing is to get AM So Far Away from Villa Park.
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Im embarrassed you lot know Dire strait songs ;)
Just to please you I'll move it up a notch.
Maybe when Randy signed up McLeish he was suffering from ' A Momentary Lapse Of Reason'.
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Perhaps Randy cousl find a Sultan and Swing a deal for the club.
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Im embarrassed you lot know Dire strait songs ;)
Just to please you I'll move it up a notch.
Maybe when Randy signed up McLeish he was suffering from ' A Momentary Lapse Of Reason'.
And so are you i think, that's Pink Floyd.
edit. Ah, i see what you were doing there, my apologies.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
Its not rocket science is it?
If it were you'd be sending your astronauts straight at the sun.
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
It's easy to say 'we can do better' but how many better owners are there, and how many more are available?
I still don't think RL has done a bad job, but if he is going to leave the day-to-day running of the club in the hands of a proxy for 95% time, I just wish he would chose someone with a better understanding and knowledge of English/European football.
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Im embarrassed you lot know Dire strait songs ;)
Just to please you I'll move it up a notch.
Maybe when Randy signed up McLeish he was suffering from ' A Momentary Lapse Of Reason'.
And so are you i think, that's Pink Floyd.
Yes it is Pink Floyd. Maybe I should have said in my post that I wanted to raise the standard of musical comparisons.
Oops we both posted our clarifications at the same time. Absolute proof that great minds do think alike. 8)
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I still don't think RL has done a bad job...
Where's that boggle eyed emoticon when you need it. Did you go on the same selection and recruitment course as Faulkner and Lerner?
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
It's easy to say 'we can do better' but how many better owners are there, and how many more are available?
I still don't think RL has done a bad job, but if he is going to leave the day-to-day running of the club in the hands of a proxy for 95% time, I just wish he would chose someone with a better understanding and knowledge of English/European football.
That's the one thing that has been a problem since he took over. Nobody in senor management has any great experience of football.
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
It's easy to say 'we can do better' but how many better owners are there, and how many more are available?
I still don't think RL has done a bad job, but if he is going to leave the day-to-day running of the club in the hands of a proxy for 95% time, I just wish he would chose someone with a better understanding and knowledge of English/European football.
That's the one thing that has been a problem since he took over. Nobody in senor management has any great experience of football.
Indeed - and that's playing or administrating. I always look at Lyon for an example of how good senior management can raise the glass ceiling of a club, and they have this brilliant team of scouts, football directors etc - I think about two of whom played professionally.
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More should have been done to convince Stride to stick around.
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Im embarrassed you lot know Dire strait songs ;)
We're playing Albion soon, the sultans of ming.
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Perhaps the thread should be called "McLeish confident of avoiding the drop, this season". But with his experience, I'm sure he'll reach his goal next season.
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
It's easy to say 'we can do better' but how many better owners are there, and how many more are available?
I still don't think RL has done a bad job, but if he is going to leave the day-to-day running of the club in the hands of a proxy for 95% time, I just wish he would chose someone with a better understanding and knowledge of English/European football.
That's the one thing that has been a problem since he took over. Nobody in senor management has any great experience of football.
Indeed - and that's playing or administrating. I always look at Lyon for an example of how good senior management can raise the glass ceiling of a club, and they have this brilliant team of scouts, football directors etc - I think about two of whom played professionally.
Perhaps it is worth having a proper Director of Football who can oversee the youth development and teams, the reserves, all scouting and training facilities etc and co-ordonate these to work towards the same goals; but to work with and not step on the toes of the manager. Even someone like Houllier might have been an ideal candidate for a role like this.
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
It's easy to say 'we can do better' but how many better owners are there, and how many more are available?
I still don't think RL has done a bad job, but if he is going to leave the day-to-day running of the club in the hands of a proxy for 95% time, I just wish he would chose someone with a better understanding and knowledge of English/European football.
That's the one thing that has been a problem since he took over. Nobody in senor management has any great experience of football.
Indeed - and that's playing or administrating. I always look at Lyon for an example of how good senior management can raise the glass ceiling of a club, and they have this brilliant team of scouts, football directors etc - I think about two of whom played professionally.
Perhaps it is worth having a proper Director of Football who can oversee the youth development and teams, the reserves, all scouting and training facilities etc and co-ordonate these to work towards the same goals; but to work with and not step on the toes of the manager. Even someone like Houllier might have been an ideal candidate for a role like this.
Problem being Houllier was on a reported £4m a year and McLeish £2m, for that £6m will could hopefully attract one decent manager rather than two duds.
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Not my job to say who, but I would suggest an owner that makes terrible appointments and is now tightening the purse strings, is not the best option. I like the guy but surely we can do better.
It's easy to say 'we can do better' but how many better owners are there, and how many more are available?
I still don't think RL has done a bad job, but if he is going to leave the day-to-day running of the club in the hands of a proxy for 95% time, I just wish he would chose someone with a better understanding and knowledge of English/European football.
That's the one thing that has been a problem since he took over. Nobody in senor management has any great experience of football.
Indeed - and that's playing or administrating. I always look at Lyon for an example of how good senior management can raise the glass ceiling of a club, and they have this brilliant team of scouts, football directors etc - I think about two of whom played professionally.
Perhaps it is worth having a proper Director of Football who can oversee the youth development and teams, the reserves, all scouting and training facilities etc and co-ordonate these to work towards the same goals; but to work with and not step on the toes of the manager. Even someone like Houllier might have been an ideal candidate for a role like this.
Problem being Houllier was on a reported £4m a year and McLeish £2m, for that £6m will could hopefully attract one decent manager rather than two duds.
I think Lerner was prepared to pay the right salary for a top manager but wasn't able to fund the transfer budget they would have wanted.
The current situation is even as a $billionaire he's not rich enough to buy success, so the only sensible approach in my view would have been to appoint a management team capable of growing the club organically by developing scouting networks, etc perhaps run by a DoF by any other name.
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Was it £5 million compensation we paid to the knuckledraggers for the pleasure of our current incumbent?
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When Alan Wright was released by Villa he said that when he left Bodymoor Heath for the last time he was in tears because he'd been at the club for 9 years. he was training with a club or two but nothing concrete. He then got a call from Rangers that they wanted him and for him to join them on their pre-season tour in Germany.
So, off he sets for Germany and his new career. He then receives a call en route that the manager, a certain Alex McLeish, has changed his mind. And that was that. No explanation, no call from the spineless manager.
So, the fact that he is a rubbish manager who specialises in relegations, he also treated a Villa stalwart like shit which is totally indefensible in my eyes.
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Was it £5 million compensation we paid to the knuckledraggers for the pleasure of our current incumbent?
I don't think the figure has ever been made public.
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Or to put it another way,we have helped them in their cash crisis.It really was a stupid saga all round.I know Randy likes helping out charities but this one he should of left alone.
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I'm quite uplifted by this thread. I have come to terms with the fact thtat we are heading for relegation but there are fans who still don't think this will happen. Don't think I'll join in - despair is bearable it's the hope that gets you.
Now how do we get to The Valley again?
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I don't think relegation would be to bad.
For Lerner, The (Liar) sorry, Gerenal, " just think what he will do with a chairman who backs him" and the clueless Faulkner it will be painful, just like this season to me.
Bring on the Midlands derbies, Blackpool, Leeds, Milwall and Sheffileds away.
Hopefully we will lose a lot of the modern day moron fans and get the club back to what made us proud to be Aston Villa.
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Was it £5 million compensation we paid to the knuckledraggers for the pleasure of our current incumbent?
Jesus H Christ on a skateboard.
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it was mooted to be about 2 million. Anything was an insult to Villa fans though. Terrible day.
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Confident of avoiding relegation...well done Alex that would be some achievement.
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I reckon some of the people who would welcome or wouldn't mind relegation have forgotten how gut-wrenchingly, sickeningly horrible it feels. I loved the '87-'88 season and the away days especially but never forget how it felt after the Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday games.
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I reckon some of the people who would welcome or wouldn't mind relegation have forgotten how gut-wrenchingly, sickeningly horrible it feels. I loved the '87-'88 season and the away days especially but never forget how it felt after the Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday games.
I too had a great time in 87-88, away matches were ace.
The problem is that these days, if you're not in the PL, you don't exist. Those who think relegation wouldn't be too bad this year are just assuming we would come straight back up like Newcastle. There's no guarantee we would (especially with our clueless leadership).
As Leeds and Forest fans how it feels down there.
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it was mooted to be about 2 million. Anything was an insult to Villa fans though. Terrible day.
I genuinely still find it hard to believe he was appointed.
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it was mooted to be about 2 million. Anything was an insult to Villa fans though. Terrible day.
I genuinely still find it hard to believe he was appointed.
I agree. The whole sequence of incompetence leading up to his appointment is so bafflingly stupid it's surreal, like it happened to someone else.
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Maybe we are all just having a year long dream/nightmare. Like when Bobby Ewing died in Dallas. Tomorrow morning Ron Saunders will step out of the shower to resume duties for the Liverpool game.
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Well there is a glimmer of hope, its being said that Lerner in the last few days got among the players and started to rally the troops saying the players must do there bit for Stan and the club.
All well and good but I've always thought that when a chairman starts getting in there and going around the manager, points out things are desperate and confidence in the manager is running short, I would say when a chairman as removed as Lerner has become gets in there things are pretty urgent.
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Or to put it another way,we have helped them in their cash crisis.It really was a stupid saga all round.I know Randy likes helping out charities but this one he should of left alone.
you couldn't make it up
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it was mooted to be about 2 million. Anything was an insult to Villa fans though. Terrible day.
I genuinely still find it hard to believe he was appointed.
I agree. The whole sequence of incompetence leading up to his appointment is so bafflingly stupid it's surreal, like it happened to someone else.
i'll never forget the day it dawned on me. I was in England visiting a friend and so was a bit aloof from the speculation for a few days. When I got back to Dublin Airport and switched on my phone I had a missed call from a villa supporter. I rang him back and I was quite simply dumbstruck. I was so shocked at the rumour.
What were they thinking?!
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every home game 10 of meet up at the aston social for a drink then go the game but we all think that this will be the last season if the tnuc is still the manager next season reminds me of the titanic
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I cant even bite at any other football friends ay more and take the piss . Not with that clown in charge.
I am even leaving my Liverpoo mates alone , as I know it will come back to f**k me.
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I cant even bite at any other football friends ay more and take the piss . Not with that clown in charge.
I am even leaving my Liverpoo mates alone , as I know it will come back to f**k me.
like shooting fish in a barrel in banter terms
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Thanks for that Alex now please do the right thing and resign
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I bet he said the same thing last season.
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I bet he said the same thing last season.
You would fucking know.
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I bet he said the same thing last season.
You would fucking know.
*chuckle*
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Taking us down would be the worst thing imaginable. We need someone that can motivate, I don't think he could motivate a suicidal man to jump off a cliff
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Taking us down would be the worst thing imaginable. We need someone that can motivate, I don't think he could motivate a suicidal man to jump off a cliff
He is good at getting teams promoted to the Premiership.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
Rubbish. Sack this useless buffoon and the fans will unite. It's so bloody obvious.
Sorry for being thick.
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Someone on VitalVilla is saying that Randy has listened and will be appointing Poyet and Zola for next season. Just passing on, don't shoot the messenger.
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Someone on VitalVilla is saying that Randy has listened and will be appointing Poyet and Zola for next season. Just passing on, don't shoot the messenger.
Hmmm. So either someone on a fans messageboard knows something the manager doesn't, or the manager knows as well and isn't fussed that he's about to be sacked.
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The pay off will probably soften the blow, but yes, I feel that it is utter bollocks also.
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Someone on VitalVilla is saying that Randy has listened and will be appointing Poyet and Zola for next season. Just passing on, don't shoot the messenger.
As players or managers?
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Players, they want to try out Zola as a centre half.
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Players, they want to try out Zola as a centre half.
more likely than him becoming the next manager.
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Someone on VitalVilla is saying that Randy has listened and will be appointing Poyet and Zola for next season. Just passing on, don't shoot the messenger.
As players or managers?
Our new fullbacks.
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Taking us down would be the worst thing imaginable. We need someone that can motivate, I don't think he could motivate a suicidal man to jump off a cliff
He is good at getting teams promoted to the Premiership.
Well that's good then....
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Taking us down would be the worst thing imaginable. We need someone that can motivate, I don't think he could motivate a suicidal man to jump off a cliff
He is good at getting teams promoted to the Premiership.
Pack him off to Wolves then
Well that's good then....
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
Rubbish. Sack this useless buffoon and the fans will unite. It's so bloody obvious.
Sorry for being thick.
Dont appologise. But you like a few others heve been caught up in this spin from the
club that backing the manager will turn this sinking ship around. Didn't want him at the club, never did and still don't. Throw in all the terrible football and there is only 1 easy decision, get rid.
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Well there is a glimmer of hope, its being said that Lerner in the last few days got among the players and started to rally the troops saying the players must do there bit for Stan and the club.
I think this 'rallying of the troops' bit by the media has been a bit over the top.
Blandy is supposed to be the shy and retiring type so I dare say his address consisted of a few barely incomprehensible mutterings.
Much in common with the whole leadership, poorly communicated drivel.
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It is bollocks of course, but Poyet and Zola would be brilliant IMO.
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It is bollocks of course, but Poyet and Zola would be brilliant IMO.
Villa need a change. And a manager that will lift the fans and inspire players. Zola on a short term deal would be ideal. Mind you anyone would be.
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It must have been said by others in this thread or another, but I can't help looking at the respective league positions, players and style of play of Aston Villa and Newcastle, and think back to the day 3 seasons ago when they went down at Villa Park.
My point is it can't solely be McLeish's fault, but more a general downward trend due logically to the owner. Also, in looking at Newcastle's example, if the worst happens and we are relegated, there is still hope that Villa can emerge better for it. If we survive it is highly possible Lerner will carry on regardless, and the general downward trend will continue.
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Cant say Zola and Poyer fill me with joy unless Lerner is backing them financially. We tried getting the current lot to pass under Houllier and they couldn't do it, which was persumably why Lerner appointed the current car crash. Now we're gonna try and pass it again - ho hum, good luck with that one. We're not going go to forward till Lerner realises the fundmental problem at the club - Too little quality, too many shit and past it players and not enough cash to replace them. Yes, someone may do better than Mcleish under the current conditions but not much better.
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Cant say Zola and Poyer fill me with joy unless Lerner is backing them financially. We tried getting the current lot to pass under Houllier and they couldn't do it, which was persumably why Lerner appointed the current car crash. Now we're gonna try and pass it again - ho hum, good luck with that one. We're not going go to forward till Lerner realises the fundmental problem at the club - Too little quality, too many shit and past it players and not enough cash to replace them. Yes, someone may do better than Mcleish under the current conditions but not much better.
Would you say Swansea had higher quality players?
We could and should be doing a lot better than we are
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yes i would. Just because they've come up from the championship doesn't mean they're crap and the standard in the premiership bar about 8 teams isn't good. They're also hungry to prove people wrong, ambitious and committed. Our senior players have got the big contracts and are on the way down. Us going down won't mean a thing to the likes of Dunne
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Are these the same shit players that O'Neill got to finish 6th and to Wembley twice? If they're past it, are we blaming him for them not staying the same age for the last two years? Sooner or later we're going to have to concede that he is a better manager than a lot of others and he gets the best out of "shit" players, regardless of how he left.
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Are these the same shit players that O'Neill got to finish 6th and to Wembley twice? If they're past it, are we blaming him for them not staying the same age for the last two years? Sooner or later we're going to have to concede that he is a better manager than a lot of others and he gets the best out of "shit" players, regardless of how he left.
erm no it isn't the same players. most of the good ones have gone and those that are left who were good are past it.
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If you want us to stay up, give the manager your support.
Rubbish. Sack this useless buffoon and the fans will unite. It's so bloody obvious.
Sorry for being thick.
Dont appologise. But you like a few others heve been caught up in this spin from the
club that backing the manager will turn this sinking ship around. Didn't want him at the club, never did and still don't. Throw in all the terrible football and there is only 1 easy decision, get rid.
I don't think he is apologising .......
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Problem is nodge, you are right he gets more from them, without question, he is a very good manager of shit players. The problem is he packed the squad with ageing shit players on HUGE contracts, which only he could get form from consistently. He left Celtic, Leicester and Villa in a right mess 18 months down the line. Celtic were lucky that there are only 2 teams in scotland and could recover by trading cheaply, Leicester still have not recovered properly, and Villa, well. The worst is yet to come I fear.
At the same time, this summer, whatever happens, is going to be a squad rebuilding exercise. I would prefer the likes of Zola and Poyet oversaw that and bought in players with technical qualities than McLeish.
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I think we can all agree that with the players that McLeish has had to work with for most of this season, we should'nt be 5 points off relegation.
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I don't think Dunne has been that bad thus season but when you're ordered to sit deep and defend1-0 leads then mistakes wil be made under that constant pressure
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Wasn't that long ago that we were two good players off Europe, now we are two good players off relegation.
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Hope the players dont read the Guardian. Didnt realise going to Anfield was so formidable. Wigan thought that to.
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Ozz, I think he payed the going rate at the time. I don't think he payed people more than he needed to as part of his evil plan to destroy Aston Villa, like a few on here.
I know one thing though, even with these shit, overpaid, has-beens, every game I watched when he was in charge I had that one thing that every fan needs, hope. Everywhere we went, Old Trafford, Anfield, even Wembley against Man U I felt that we had a chance to win.
I go to games now fearing the worst. I suppose I do have hope, I hope that we don't get hammered or hope that we put up a fight.
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No one denies MON is a good manager, he is good at motivating some players to play above their means. He has a style which can work to achieve results. He is limited though as it proved at Villa. We started to slide during the last months of his time here, he might have turned it around who knows, but I doubt it.
Warnock's form plummeted while he was here, Dunne became very unfit while MON was here, he would not play Carlos regularly unless we had no full back. He bought Luke Young for 3 Million more a year after deciding he was not good enough. Sold Cahill for Knight, bought Marlon and Heskey. Bought Beye and never played him, waisted money on Sidwell and Shorey.
He seemed reluctant to play any of the youngsters unless it was a cup game which he never really took very seriously.
Ok he brought in some great players like Ashley, Carew. Milner was a no brainer after his first stint with us. He seemed to get the best of Gabby and at times it was exciting being a Villa fan.
I got all caught up in the MON fairy tale I admit, but then we threw away the European match for glory of fourth place before we lost the Semi and the final to Utd. He seemed to lose interest in us and should have left at the end of the season. I would have had some respect for him if he did that instead of days into the new season like he did.
He left us up shit streak and we have been left with his baggage.
He might be good but he is not great and I certainly do not miss him. It will turn around I'm sure. I can not blame the Chairman either, he has shown probably a little naivety and maybe believed the legendary status that comes with MON and had too much faith in him like a lot of us. He too has been left with the baggage. OK he has made another mistake in AM, in the summer I'm hoping he will re-assess the situation.
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Hope the players dont read the Guardian. Didnt realise going to Anfield was so formidable. Wigan thought that to.
That's what i dislike about him the most, he comes across as a terrible motivator and at the moment it's what we need most. He needs to get the team believing they can go there and win.
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Clampy. Its what has killed any hope i had in him. He must have wrote off 20 games this season.
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Cant say Zola and Poyer fill me with joy unless Lerner is backing them financially. We tried getting the current lot to pass under Houllier and they couldn't do it, which was persumably why Lerner appointed the current car crash. Now we're gonna try and pass it again - ho hum, good luck with that one.
With a few adjustments to the personnel (Dunne, Warnock for example) a decent manager could get this squad playing passing football! Just go watch the reserves / academy sides sometime. GHou recognised that the players had the potential to become a better footballing side but was stymied by a few of the 'old guard'.
We're not going go to forward till Lerner realises the fundmental problem at the club - Too little quality, too many shit and past it players and not enough cash to replace them. Yes, someone may do better than Mcleish under the current conditions but not much better.
Clearly, any manager needs the owner's backing ... but even so, McL came here with a poor P'ship record and seemingly a footballing philosophy that has tactical and motivational limitations.
If RL has got any sense, he'll be taking a long, hard and dispassionate review of this season - perhaps in the company of 2-3 people who have good perspectives on the English game - and decide that he and the club can do a whole lot better.
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Are these the same shit players that O'Neill got to finish 6th and to Wembley twice? If they're past it, are we blaming him for them not staying the same age for the last two years? Sooner or later we're going to have to concede that he is a better manager than a lot of others and he gets the best out of "shit" players, regardless of how he left.
erm no it isn't the same players. most of the good ones have gone and those that are left who were good are past it.
Greg , thanks for saving me the time to post - even thou I just have ;)
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Just think If we had got a good manager , MON would never be mentioned on here.
Because we have this clown , people will and still keep harping back to pubehead .
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Trouble is EffDee, i think Lerner's bought totally into this "free transfers, low wages, play the kids" thing, just like he fell totally for MON's flim flam. Whether its a decision he's made by himself or the likes of Faulkner have convinced him. I don't think a change of manager is going to alter that until it goes horribly wrong, and it will. If you could do what the club is attempting and make a success of it then everyone would try it. Even the Mancs with Beckham and Co, supplemented the youth with proven expensive quality players
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You only have to look at Newcastle to see how success can come through austerity. There was a good article in the DM yesterday about them. Trouble is Villa dont seem to have the cunning or the nous to operate in such a climate.
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Latest bollocks from McLeish
sportinglife.com
McLEISH BACKS YOUNGSTERS TO SURVIVE
Aston Villa manager Alex McLeish is aware of the financial implications of relegation, but is confident his crop of young players will ensure that scenario is avoided.
Villa go into Sunday's Barclays Premier League match at Liverpool only five points above the relegation zone and with a squad decimated by injury and illness.
The club suffered an increased loss of £54million for the financial year ending May 2011 and going down to the Championship would add significantly to their financial concerns.
McLeish said: "Has Randy Lerner (club owner) mentioned relegation to you? I think we could all do without it. It doesn't bear thinking about financially so that's why I believe that we'll stay up.
"We've got big challenges in the next eight games but I believe we have enough in us to get points.
"We'll try to win as many as we can. Would I take 15th spot now? Probably, absolutely."
McLeish concedes he always expected this season to be an uphill battle, but has no regrets about making the controversial switch from local rivals Birmingham.
He said: "It's not been easy and I knew it wouldn't be. I thought it would be tough, especially when you look at the comparison with the two squads from this year to last year.
"Last year's squad was a little bit stronger, so I knew it would be tough. But it doesn't mean to say that we can't finish another three or four places up the table.
"But I've never wished I didn't make the move. I never, ever look back and regret anything.
"You always wonder what you might be doing now if you didn't do it, but I have always vowed never to regret anything."
McLeish will be without eight senior players through illness or injury for the trip to Anfield, but has faith in the crop of academy products who are receiving their opportunity.
He said: "It is probably the youngest squad I've ever had to work with. At Rangers we dabbled in a lot of free transfers, guys at the end of the careers, to try to augment the squad.
"But we're going to go with the youngsters here. It can make or break players but a lot of them have got so much confidence.
"This is a learning curve for them in all aspects, life as well, in terms of the importance of the situation also.
"But a lot of them will be concentrating and focusing on enhancing their careers, getting into the first team and staying in the first team.
"They can emerge as men after this. I would definitely back a few of them to do that.
"They have to grow up as quickly as possible in one of the toughest leagues in the world."
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expect Heskey to start then and Hutton at RB
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Latest bollocks from McLeish
"But I've never wished I didn't make the move. I never, ever look back and regret anything.
No , two million pound a year does help .
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Which parts of that McLeish statement are bollocks?
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The statement is not bollocks, it's just not very inspiring. Rambling on about free transfers at Rangers is not going to help us stop up.
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Which parts of that McLeish statement are bollocks?
This for starters.
'McLeish concedes he always expected this season to be an uphill battle, but has no regrets about making the controversial switch from local rivals Birmingham.'
There's a difference between 'uphill battle' and 'staring relegation in the face.'
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Which parts of that McLeish statement are bollocks?
'Aston Villa manager Alex McLeish'.
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Wasn't that long ago that we were two good players off Europe, now we are two good players off relegation.
Indeed.
Those advocating Zola and Poyet, I don't understand? Didn't Zola get the boot from West Ham for nearly getting them relegated? What has Poyet done to warrant a crack at what is still regarded as one of the top jobs in the league (outside the 'ELITE' of course)? Appointing either of those two now would be mental. Sorry to say, but what we need now is a motivator along the lines of.... Martin O' Neill. There I said it.
Anyway, he's going nowhere til the end of the season. I'm glad he's confident of avoiding the drop, I'm not and won't be until we get a couple of positive results. As for taking 15th now, that says it all I'm afraid. Teams are a reflection of their managers and that's what our team looks like at it's worst - happy to get through without the worst happening, but not confident of it.
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Which parts of that McLeish statement are bollocks?
Let's wait for the teamsheet if Hutton starts ahead of Lichaj then he's a fool and his actions won't be in line with the statement.
Aside from that, comparing this years squad to last years is bollocks and is him trying his hardest to blame all of our troubles on the differences in the squad. The reality is there are only 2 players who weren't replaced and as Warnock and Ireland had efectively been removed from the squad last year even that is debatable. If the quality isn't as high he has to be held responsible (to a large extent at least) for that. Yes we didn't give him all the money from sales but he did get nearly all of the money we'd spent on those players originally.
Making a profit from trading isn't some kind of guarantee you're going to be in the shit like a few people on here are determined to suggest. Forget how much money came in this summer, he had a decent amount to spend and failed to spend correctly.
Having thrown a lot of his budget at nzogbia and then completely failing to utilise him correctly is nothing to do with Lerner cutting costs or MoN overpaying for average players.
He chose to not look for a midfielder on loan in January when it was clear we were short in that area, particularly given that he decided to loan out Delph and Gardner. Again, this isn't the fault of anyone but McLeish.
The reality is we're in danger of being drawn right into the relegation fight in the next few days and I have 0 confidence in his ability to get us back out of it. If we get the results we need today and Monday then we'll be safe but we really shouldn't have been going into the easter weekend with a large portion of the fans scared that we're in real danger of relegation.
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All that guff about how much he loves 'experienced players' (ie old, shit, obedient and uninspired) just makes you wonder what part of his interview gave the board the impression that he was the man to develop our young players. He's only playing the kids now, when he's forced to, throwing them in at the deep-end of a season made shit by under-performing seniors who retained their places no matter how arse they were. The time to play the kids and 'make them men' (but not better players, it seems) would have been in games when, for instance, Lichaj could have come in for the out-of-sorts Hutton, when Baker could have stepped in for the shite Collins, when Heskey (nuff said) was preferred in midfield to Bannan and Gardner. It's a bloody shambles, he's fucked it up big time, and what the board were thinking is absolutely fucking beyond me.
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Excellent post Monty..
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All that guff about how much he loves 'experienced players' (ie old, shit, obedient and uninspired) just makes you wonder what part of his interview gave the board the impression that he was the man to develop our young players. He's only playing the kids now, when he's forced to, throwing them in at the deep-end of a season made shit by under-performing seniors who retained their places no matter how arse they were. The time to play the kids and 'make them men' (but not better players, it seems) would have been in games when, for instance, Lichaj could have come in for the out-of-sorts Hutton, when Baker could have stepped in for the shite Collins, when Heskey (nuff said) was preferred in midfield to Bannan and Gardner. It's a bloody shambles, he's fucked it up big time, and what the board were thinking is absolutely fucking beyond me.
ABSOLUTELY
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I just hate the man. It comes to something when match days are depressing even before kick off.
"what's that beer!? Yes I WILL come and drink you"
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You only have to look at Newcastle to see how success can come through austerity. There was a good article in the DM yesterday about them. Trouble is Villa dont seem to have the cunning or the nous to operate in such a climate.
To be fair, who could guess that the blueprint to that success would be having Alan Pardew as manager and Alan Carr's ex Northampton manager dad as head scout?
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All that guff about how much he loves 'experienced players' (ie old, shit, obedient and uninspired) just makes you wonder what part of his interview gave the board the impression that he was the man to develop our young players. He's only playing the kids now, when he's forced to, throwing them in at the deep-end of a season made shit by under-performing seniors who retained their places no matter how arse they were. The time to play the kids and 'make them men' (but not better players, it seems) would have been in games when, for instance, Lichaj could have come in for the out-of-sorts Hutton, when Baker could have stepped in for the shite Collins, when Heskey (nuff said) was preferred in midfield to Bannan and Gardner. It's a bloody shambles, he's fucked it up big time, and what the board were thinking is absolutely fucking beyond me.
Agree 100%.
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All that guff about how much he loves 'experienced players' (ie old, shit, obedient and uninspired) just makes you wonder what part of his interview gave the board the impression that he was the man to develop our young players. He's only playing the kids now, when he's forced to, throwing them in at the deep-end of a season made shit by under-performing seniors who retained their places no matter how arse they were. The time to play the kids and 'make them men' (but not better players, it seems) would have been in games when, for instance, Lichaj could have come in for the out-of-sorts Hutton, when Baker could have stepped in for the shite Collins, when Heskey (nuff said) was preferred in midfield to Bannan and Gardner. It's a bloody shambles, he's fucked it up big time, and what the board were thinking is absolutely fucking beyond me.
Agree 100%.
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This is from the Birmingham post on June 23rd 2011 from AM
“It’s about trading carefully for the benefit and future of the club, getting the club to a competitive state in terms of where we are in the league.
“We want to get up that league as high as we can and compete in the cup competitions. I’m not sure that we’ll get the whole lot (of Young’s transfer fee), but there will be funds available.
As high as we can!? Doesn't sound like someone anticipating the 'relegation fight' and always knew it would be tough 'spin' that we are now being fed by him!
A load of bollocks comes out that guys mouth and somehow every time he speaks I find myself disliking him more and more
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I just don't understand how someone who was an integral part of Alex Ferguson's 'little' Aberdeen side who became Scotlands best team and a force in Europe can be so negative and defeatist as a manager. Surely a strong winning mentality and belief you can beat anybody anywhere was a huge part of his playing success.
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All that guff about how much he loves 'experienced players' (ie old, shit, obedient and uninspired) just makes you wonder what part of his interview gave the board the impression that he was the man to develop our young players. He's only playing the kids now, when he's forced to, throwing them in at the deep-end of a season made shit by under-performing seniors who retained their places no matter how arse they were. The time to play the kids and 'make them men' (but not better players, it seems) would have been in games when, for instance, Lichaj could have come in for the out-of-sorts Hutton, when Baker could have stepped in for the shite Collins, when Heskey (nuff said) was preferred in midfield to Bannan and Gardner. It's a bloody shambles, he's fucked it up big time, and what the board were thinking is absolutely fucking beyond me.
Agree 100%.
Also agree 100%. Infact there doesn't seem to be anybody else than I know of who would disagree with any part of that. By any measure this season has been a disaster and I really can't believe that the Board don't see it too regardless of how little we think of Faulkner et al. They clearly need to act promptly and decisively and remove the buffoon before it's too late and if they don't I would like to know why they think that Mcleish is the man to help us avoid relegation, leave alone move the club forward next season - I'd just like to know why they still seem to think that he's the man to do the job of managing our club.
For the life of me I just don't understand.
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If the club are to invest in the squad this sumer, please don't let McLeish spend it. No creativity, just dull, hard working players. The hard work is ok, as long as there is an end product. Sadly, with this Manager, there isn't a great deal of it. I can't wait for this season to end. Terrible season.
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One win should do it.
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If the club are to invest in the squad this sumer, please don't let McLeish spend it. No creativity, just dull, hard working players.
You mean like N'Zogbia and Keane?
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Ironically,Keane will be the reason that we stay up
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If the club are to invest in the squad this sumer, please don't let McLeish spend it. No creativity, just dull, hard working players.
You mean like N'Zogbia and Keane?
How well has nzogbia been used though?
How many points did we get during the games Keane was here? (Don't get me wrong, Keane played well but he made no difference to the results really).
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Keane scored twice against Wolves, and we won 3-2 - so that's 3 points.
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Keane scored twice against Wolves, and we won 3-2 - so that's 3 points.
Not really sure that works, though. You could equally say Weimann scored against Fulham, so that's 3 points too.
Weimann is therefore the man who kept us up.
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Keane scored twice against Wolves, and we won 3-2 - so that's 3 points.
Not really sure that works, though. You could equally say Weimann scored against Fulham, so that's 3 points too.
Two points.
Obviously the whole idea is very flawed though. He could have played Heskey instead of Keane who could have scored five.
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Obviously the whole idea is very flawed though. He could have played Heskey instead of Keane who could have scored five.
*nods*
*thinks*
hey, waittaminute!
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Fair's fair. Those five might well be over the next 70 games that Heskey plays against Wolves.
And in my pessimistic state, I'm expecting him to stay with us for long enough to achieve that.
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If the club are to invest in the squad this sumer, please don't let McLeish spend it. No creativity, just dull, hard working players.
You mean like N'Zogbia and Keane?
How well has nzogbia been used though?
How many points did we get during the games Keane was here? (Don't get me wrong, Keane played well but he made no difference to the results really).
That's not the point the original poster was making though. He said that McLeish only buys 'dull, hard-working players'. He doesn't.
How well he uses the players he has got is an entirely separate issue.
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The relevance is in the fact that's his problem with nzogbia has been his lack of defensive work rate. Looking at players he picked up for blues I can only think of hleb who wouldn't be considered as primarily hard working.
I wouldn't be surprised for him to be thinking he's got his fingers burned with hleb and nzogbia and concentrate on players for whom effort is the key.
Holman appears to be in that mould (don't get me wrong, he seems to have decent skill/technique as well) but I think he'd be described as a hard working wide midfielder by most.
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Were now 6 points clear of three teams vying to accompany wolves to the Championship. Another point and it will need two of those three to win half their remaining games to send us down, more or less.
It looks like we're going to get away with it.
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6 points clear, a game in hand on the bottom 3 which is Bolton at home and at least 15 goals better off than anyone on the bottom 3. Billy McNeill would have a job relegating us from this position.
Last season we finished 9 points clear of the drop zone, I reckon we will be further away than that by the end of the season.
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The relevance is in the fact that's his problem with nzogbia has been his lack of defensive work rate. Looking at players he picked up for blues I can only think of hleb who wouldn't be considered as primarily hard working.
I wouldn't be surprised for him to be thinking he's got his fingers burned with hleb and nzogbia and concentrate on players for whom effort is the key.
Holman appears to be in that mould (don't get me wrong, he seems to have decent skill/technique as well) but I think he'd be described as a hard working wide midfielder by most.
The original poster said that McLeish does not buy flair players. He does. He bought N'Zogbia and Keane. The fact that he might then choose to use them badly, to turn them into defensive midfielders, whatever, is entirely irrelevant. He has still bought players who would not be described as 'dull and hard-working'.
Your argument of 'because he wants N'Zogbia to put in more of a shift (as Wenger, Ferguson and every other manager demand of their wide players) that means he isn't ever going to buy a similar player ever again' is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for reasons to slag him off. Given the number of options available to you, that seems a little strange to me.
Also, I couldn't care less who he signed for Blues, I care who he signs for Villa and will judge him as such. His transfer dealing is one of the few parts of his performance this season which isn't particuarly awful.
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Not a fan of McLeish in any way but lets look at what he or any other manager had to face. We sold our best two players, our supply line to Bent which dried up the goals. He had the left overs of MON and lets face it none of them could be classed as quality,Gabby on form maybe. Houllier had an awful time of it trying to change our style of play and met solid resistance from senior players who are still at the club. One time the Commentator said AM was screaming at Hutton who had for the umteenth time played a long ball straight back to the opposition. We are in desperate need of a total overhaul on the playing side whoever the manager.
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The only problem with that Robbo is that Hutton is he's player, if he's own signings don't do what he is supposedly saying then what hope is there?
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Also, I couldn't care less who he signed for Blues, I care who he signs for Villa and will judge him as such. His transfer dealing is one of the few parts of his performance this season which isn't particuarly awful.
Really? I'd say it's every bit as mediocre as the rest of his attributes. I'd say O'Neill's first four signings were much better than McLeish's first four signings and we know how mixed that turned out to be.
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Also, I couldn't care less who he signed for Blues, I care who he signs for Villa and will judge him as such. His transfer dealing is one of the few parts of his performance this season which isn't particuarly awful.
Really? I'd say it's every bit as mediocre as the rest of his attributes. I'd say O'Neill's first four signings were much better than McLeish's first four signings and we know how mixed that turned out to be.
O'Neill's first five signings - Petrov, Agathe, Sutton, Bardsley on loan, Kiraly on loan
McLeish's first five signings - Given, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Jenas on loan, Keane on loan
I wouldn't describe Agathe, Bardsley, Sutton and Kiraly as better than N'Zogbia, Hutton, Keane and Given. Petrov over Jenas, ok fair point.
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I'd say that's a tad spurious. If we ignore emergency loans and out-of-contract space fillers and compare the signings that they actually made when they had access to the transfer market:
Given, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Jenas, Keane to:
Petrov, Bardsley, Young, Carew, Maloney.
If you were ranking those ten players, I think most would have Young, Carew and Petrov forming the top three in some order.
McLeish has continued with the plan that is causing our current problem - buying fairly mediocre players and putting them on high salaries.
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not really comparable i'd say. Even with inflation MON had a good bit more money to play with. How much would a carew cost now and who could we swap in the current team for one? Having said that N'Zogbia was an awful buy but then most people on here wanted him as much as Mcleish did for some reason.
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How come Keane who was here for 2 months is included, but Agathe, Sutton and Kiraly aren't?
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I'd say that's a tad spurious. If we ignore emergency loans and out-of-contract space fillers and compare the signings that they actually made when they had access to the transfer market:
Given, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Jenas, Keane to:
Petrov, Bardsley, Young, Carew, Maloney.
If you were ranking those ten players, I think most would have Young, Carew and Petrov forming the top three in some order.
McLeish has continued with the plan that is causing our current problem - buying fairly mediocre players and putting them on high salaries.
Yes, you're right. If you take out O'Neill's crap early signings, his record does look better than McLeish's. While we're changing history, let's ignore Maloney and Bardsley as well, it'll make it look better still!
In all seriousness though:
Given - excellent signing
Hutton - not as bad as he is made out to be, average
Jenas - who knows, he only played about five minutes (more than anything, the stupid loan contract we agreed was at fault rather than the actual signing)
Keane - excellent short-term signing
N'Zogbia - very good player, badly used and managed
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The problem with giving McLeish money to spend on players isn't the type of players he will bring in, it's that whoever they are he won't be able to use them to create a coherent, winning team.
The only good thing about having him as manager is the consolation that one day he will be gone, and whenever that day comes it's going to feel like we've won the league.
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The problem with giving McLeish money to spend on players isn't the type of players he will bring in, it's that whoever they are he won't be able to use them to create a coherent, winning team.
That to be fair, is difficult to disagree with.
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The problem with giving McLeish money to spend on players isn't the type of players he will bring in, it's that whoever they are he won't be able to use them to create a coherent, winning team.
That to be fair, is difficult to disagree with.
It maybe hard to disagree with on the other hand I can only live in hope that it is not true and he can create a team that is strong at the back, that can score goals and is worth watching.
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I just can't accept that our manager seems to think that being worse than Norwich and Swansea but staying up is an achievement with what he has at his disposal.
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He's had the weakest midfield in living memory. Combine that with his negative outlook and you can see why we are where we are.
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How come Keane who was here for 2 months is included, but Agathe, Sutton and Kiraly aren't?
Because all three were signed as there was no alternative. The transfer window was closed and we have to rely on players who weren't contracted to other clubs. O'Neill was hardly flawless in the transfer market, but I don't his biggest critic would say that he would have signed those three players had there a transfer window at the time. I don't think Houllier would have signed Pires had there been other options either.
Keane was signed during a transfer window so the situations aren't really comparable.
Yes, you're right. If you take out O'Neill's crap early signings, his record does look better than McLeish's. While we're changing history, let's ignore Maloney and Bardsley as well, it'll make it look better still!
Now you're just being silly.
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How come Keane who was here for 2 months is included, but Agathe, Sutton and Kiraly aren't?
Because all three were signed as there was no alternative. The transfer window was closed and we have to rely on players who weren't contracted to other clubs. O'Neill was hardly flawless in the transfer market, but I don't his biggest critic would say that he would have signed those three players had there a transfer window at the time. I don't think Houllier would have signed Pires had there been other options either.
Keane was signed during a transfer window so the situations aren't really comparable.
Yes, you're right. If you take out O'Neill's crap early signings, his record does look better than McLeish's. While we're changing history, let's ignore Maloney and Bardsley as well, it'll make it look better still!
Now you're just being silly.
Me - silly? Never(!)
But if you're going to make up rules as to which signings are allowed in your comparison, then why not?
Do you think if McLeish had been given £20m to spend in January his only signing would have been Keane for 2 months? Yet you say that O'Neill had no alternative to his signings but McLeish did. Using your rules, what was the alternative to Keane? Lashing out £10m on another striker? It clearly wasn't an option.