McLeish confident of avoiding the drop

[SheffieldVillain]

If the club are to invest in the squad this sumer, please don't let McLeish spend it. No creativity, just dull, hard working players.

You mean like N'Zogbia and Keane?

How well has nzogbia been used though?

How many points did we get during the games Keane was here?  (Don't get me wrong, Keane played well but he made no difference to the results really).

That's not the point the original poster was making though. He said that McLeish only buys 'dull, hard-working players'. He doesn't.

How well he uses the players he has got is an entirely separate issue.

[paul_e]

The relevance  is in the fact that's his problem with nzogbia has been his lack of defensive work rate.  Looking at players he picked up for blues I can only think of hleb who wouldn't be considered as primarily hard working.

I wouldn't be surprised for him to be thinking he's got his fingers burned with hleb and nzogbia and concentrate on players for whom effort is the key.

Holman appears to be in that mould (don't get me wrong, he seems to have decent skill/technique as well) but I think he'd be described as a hard working wide midfielder by most.

[Steve R]

Were now 6 points clear of three teams vying to accompany wolves to the Championship. Another point and it will need two of those three to win half their remaining games to send us down, more or less.

It looks like we're going to get away with it.

[PeterWithesShin]

6 points clear, a game in hand on the bottom 3 which is Bolton at home and at least 15 goals better off than anyone on the bottom 3. Billy McNeill would have a job relegating us from this position.

Last season we finished 9 points clear of the drop zone, I reckon we will be further away than that by the end of the season.

[SheffieldVillain]

The relevance  is in the fact that's his problem with nzogbia has been his lack of defensive work rate.  Looking at players he picked up for blues I can only think of hleb who wouldn't be considered as primarily hard working.

I wouldn't be surprised for him to be thinking he's got his fingers burned with hleb and nzogbia and concentrate on players for whom effort is the key.

Holman appears to be in that mould (don't get me wrong, he seems to have decent skill/technique as well) but I think he'd be described as a hard working wide midfielder by most.

The original poster said that McLeish does not buy flair players. He does. He bought N'Zogbia and Keane. The fact that he might then choose to use them badly, to turn them into defensive midfielders, whatever, is entirely irrelevant. He has still bought players who would not be described as 'dull and hard-working'.

Your argument of 'because he wants N'Zogbia to put in more of a shift (as Wenger, Ferguson and every other manager demand of their wide players) that means he isn't ever going to buy a similar player ever again' is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for reasons to slag him off. Given the number of options available to you, that seems a little strange to me.

Also, I couldn't care less who he signed for Blues, I care who he signs for Villa and will judge him as such. His transfer dealing is one of the few parts of his performance this season which isn't particuarly awful.

[ROBBO]

Not a fan of McLeish in any way but lets look at what he or any other manager had to face. We sold our best two players, our supply line to Bent which dried up the goals. He had the left overs of MON and lets face it none of them could be classed as quality,Gabby on form maybe. Houllier had an awful time of it trying to change our style of play and met solid resistance from senior players who are still at the club. One time the Commentator said AM was screaming at Hutton who had for the umteenth time played a long ball straight back to the opposition. We are in desperate need of a total overhaul on the playing side whoever the manager.

[Phil from the upper holte]

The only problem with that Robbo is that Hutton is he's player, if he's own signings don't do what he is supposedly saying then what hope is there?

[Dave]

Also, I couldn't care less who he signed for Blues, I care who he signs for Villa and will judge him as such. His transfer dealing is one of the few parts of his performance this season which isn't particuarly awful.

Really? I'd say it's every bit as mediocre as the rest of his attributes. I'd say O'Neill's first four signings were much better than McLeish's first four signings and we know how mixed that turned out to be.

[SheffieldVillain]

Also, I couldn't care less who he signed for Blues, I care who he signs for Villa and will judge him as such. His transfer dealing is one of the few parts of his performance this season which isn't particuarly awful.

Really? I'd say it's every bit as mediocre as the rest of his attributes. I'd say O'Neill's first four signings were much better than McLeish's first four signings and we know how mixed that turned out to be.

O'Neill's first five signings - Petrov, Agathe, Sutton, Bardsley on loan, Kiraly on loan
McLeish's first five signings - Given, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Jenas on loan, Keane on loan

I wouldn't describe Agathe, Bardsley, Sutton and Kiraly as better than N'Zogbia, Hutton, Keane and Given. Petrov over Jenas, ok fair point.

[Dave]

I'd say that's a tad spurious. If we ignore emergency loans and out-of-contract space fillers and compare the signings that they actually made when they had access to the transfer market:

Given, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Jenas, Keane to:

Petrov, Bardsley, Young, Carew, Maloney.

If you were ranking those ten players, I think most would have Young, Carew and Petrov forming the top three in some order.

McLeish has continued with the plan that is causing our current problem - buying fairly mediocre players and putting them on high salaries.

[Greg N'Ash]

not really comparable i'd say. Even with inflation MON had a good bit more money to play with.  How much would a carew cost now and who could we swap in the current team for one? Having said that N'Zogbia was an awful buy but then most people on here wanted him as much as Mcleish did for some reason.

[PeterWithesShin]

How come Keane who was here for 2 months is included, but Agathe, Sutton and Kiraly aren't?

[SheffieldVillain]

I'd say that's a tad spurious. If we ignore emergency loans and out-of-contract space fillers and compare the signings that they actually made when they had access to the transfer market:

Given, Hutton, N'Zogbia, Jenas, Keane to:

Petrov, Bardsley, Young, Carew, Maloney.

If you were ranking those ten players, I think most would have Young, Carew and Petrov forming the top three in some order.

McLeish has continued with the plan that is causing our current problem - buying fairly mediocre players and putting them on high salaries.

Yes, you're right. If you take out O'Neill's crap early signings, his record does look better than McLeish's. While we're changing history, let's ignore Maloney and Bardsley as well, it'll make it look better still!

In all seriousness though:
Given - excellent signing
Hutton - not as bad as he is made out to be, average
Jenas - who knows, he only played about five minutes (more than anything, the stupid loan contract we agreed was at fault rather than the actual signing)
Keane - excellent short-term signing
N'Zogbia - very good player, badly used and managed

[caster troy]

The problem with giving McLeish money to spend on players isn't the type of players he will bring in, it's that whoever they are he won't be able to use them to create a coherent, winning team.

The only good thing about having him as manager is the consolation that one day he will be gone, and whenever that day comes it's going to feel like we've won the league.

[SheffieldVillain]

The problem with giving McLeish money to spend on players isn't the type of players he will bring in, it's that whoever they are he won't be able to use them to create a coherent, winning team.

That to be fair, is difficult to disagree with.