Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on October 28, 2011, 04:47:01 PM
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Available Saturday evening.
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2-2 probably about fair.
Awful first half, better second half. Still not very good at defending set pieces.
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Yet again we're the worst team in the league for holding onto leads
I actually thought we played pretty well though, but our set piece defending needs an urgent going over
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I'm so fucking sick of this. Can we close out a fucking game?!
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We have a rubbish defence. Lose the lead twice against a mediocre team is inexcusable. Hutton, Dunne, Collins, Warnock all need shipping out ASAP,
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2 points dropped, cannot fuckin defend leads, ever it seems, given the parlous state the club could potentially find itself in in May, we need to beat teams like Sunderland. Still, I didn't even think we would get a point so have to be glad about that. Well played Gabby.
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Seems that by scoring a goal we seem to think the game is won, then suddenly "oh hang on, they're still playing. And they've scored straight away"
Can't be hard to keep playing after a goal is scored - other teams realise it...?
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Level on points after about a third of the season gone with QPR, Swansea, Norwich and Stoke.
It was about as uninspiring as it gets. The only player worth watching this season is Gabby.
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Positive's was Chris Herd provided great defencive cover for open play throughout! Can't be faulted for the goals. Collins need's to have a game off.
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McLeish out.
McDonald given the reigns with Sid as number two.
Heskey never to start a league game again.
Is it too much to ask?
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So frustrating yet again. We get ahead 3 minutes from the end, and who among us really thought we'd hang on to win? Stupid of Dunne to give that free kick away and yet again poor defending from a set piece.
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I like Given - he will win us more points than Friedel - but I am not convinced about him on crosses.
Thought Gabby, Petrov, Herd were great.
Darren Bent has missed two in two weeks - needs to step up now.
Frustrating - but better than last week.
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Chucked another two points away, call themselves professionals? Naa
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Thought we did well with the ball / crap in defence. Some positives though, generally. Herd, N'Zog, Warnock and Gabby were particularly good. Hutton is good on the attack, but gets no cover when caught out of position.
Defensively, we have the same problems as we had last season: set-piece management is awful.
We should have won this game.
Clark and Cuellar, anyone?
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Where will our next three points come from?
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To my eyes, Sunderland are a poor,poor team. We just about lived with them.
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Sunderland were there for the taking. We dominated the last twenty five minutes but our dire defending from set-pieces is hampering us so much.
Collins and dunne have had it. two years ago, we all knew this, yet we've not moved on. where is the training?
Eh? Less than a year and a half ago they were one of the best defences in the country and we were all congratulating MON for buying them.
It was only last season that the rot set in.
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Positives
- second half much better than first
- Gabby was excellent again
- N'Zogbia played well
- Herd did well
Negatives
- no confidence in attack, too often move forward promisingly but somehow end up passing ball around edge of our own area
- defence looks fucked.
- we failed to win, yet again.
- we are simply unable to close a game out
- no movement off the ball
- we are largely shapeless and hoof the ball far too often.
Oh, and the squad is nothing like deep enough.
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Another point towards safety. Thats our season ladies and gents. Good here isn't it ?
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Where will our next three points come from?
Norwich next week at home I hope else Mcleish out! Paul Lambert in!
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Chucked another two points away, call themselves professionals? Naa
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Level on points after about a third of the season gone with QPR, Swansea, Norwich and Stoke.
Having played only one decent side.
I'm not screaming relegation or anything like that, but I do think that's the thing that is going to catch us out, unfortunately.
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Also, can those fretting about Bent leaving at christmas and saying he's too good for us please stop. He isn't world class, we're about his level.
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Every time. Every pissing time we score late and you know they'll let a goal in.
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If its the same team next game i'm going to be very annoyed
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Overall a not too bad performance, and I thought we'd lose this so a point isn't poor at their place.
In the second half we were much improved, with Agbonlahor and Warnock very good and N'Zogbia putting in his best showing so far. Some good passing play, steady build up and some very decent attacks. Not bad.
Both centre-backs, although doing some things well, still make too many basic errors. Positioning, marking, distribution...they're crap at all of those things and it costs us over and over again.
With consistent shoddy defending like that, surely Cuellar or Clark deserve a go in the team?
Anyway, not a bad point, but we could, possibly should, have had three.
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Where will our next three points come from?
I have tickets for Norwich next week so it is a nailed on win villadelph ;-)
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Can someone let randy know how we gone on .
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Extremely disappointing that the players don't bust a gut to hold on to a lead, Mcleish must sort out this defending from set pieces. If he can't sort it out then let someone come in who will, it's abysmal that we keep doing this.
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Different season, same old shit. Never put sides away when we are on top, have no creative edge and without that Bent looks like a white elephant. How many points from winning positions since the start of last season.
Houllier was never the problem, the players he clearly wanted rid of were the problem. McLeish is just a boring version of MON with the same amount of tactical nous and a lot less charisma. We are the epitome of total and utter mediocrity. We are Aston Villa.
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I'd have Clark and Cuellar start next game. They couldn't do any worse.
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Level on points after about a third of the season gone with QPR, Swansea, Norwich and Stoke.
Having played only one decent side.
I'm not screaming relegation or anything like that, but I do think that's the thing that is going to catch us out, unfortunately.
Aye. But I'm not sure just how many decent sides there are in this league Paulie. 3 or 4 based on the evidence so far, the rest are cannon fodder as far as I can tell.
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So we get in a manager who all fear will turn us into a dull, boring, defensive unit and we get two out of three of these.
Had us down to lose today so a point to the good...
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so many times did we pass back to the back 4 only for one of the clowns to cockup ....any one of them is a mistake waiting to happen...just to lump the ball forward to be lost to the otherside allowing them to regain the attacking momentum.
Utter rubbish
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Positives
- second half much better than first
- Gabby was excellent again
- N'Zogbia played well
- Herd did well
Negatives
- no confidence in attack, too often move forward promisingly but somehow end up passing ball around edge of our own area
- defence looks fucked.
- we failed to win, yet again.
- we are simply unable to close a game out
- no movement off the ball
- we are largely shapeless and hoof the ball far too often.
Oh, and the squad is nothing like deep enough.
I'll just stick with your positives paulie, and hope the negatives fade a bit with time.
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Ignore
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Bugger I thought we had this in the bag. As per previous posts I would like to see Clark and Carlos start next week. They could have started today but our manager is kak.
Also like to see Bazza and Ireland in the mix. He will of course play the donkey.
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Houllier was never the problem, the players he clearly wanted rid of were the problem.
Yeah, this is an interesting point and one that I agree with. I went from blaming the players wholly, to thinking Houllier was just not able to work with them (after the players all came out and bitched) to where I am now, which is that actually, I trust my initial feeling about it - I just don't think the defenders are any good, and I don't think they're professional enough to develop (old dogs and new tricks, maybe?).
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Can we talk about Albrighton coming on to secure our three points.. Albrighton?! What in the hell are you thinking McLeish?
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Just before they equalised for the second time Worncock gave away a stupid free kick, I thought they would score then because we looked incredibly deep, defending from the penalty spot as opposed from the 18 yard line. When Dunne gave away his stupid free kick we done the same again.
Is it the players or is it the coaching they're getting?
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I'd have taken a point before the game but still inevitably sickening to lose it late again. If we could defend properly we'd be sitting comfortably in the top 6-8 now.
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Houllier was never the problem, the players he clearly wanted rid of were the problem.
Yeah, this is an interesting point and one that I agree with. I went from blaming the players wholly, to thinking Houllier was just not able to work with them (after the players all came out and bitched) to where I am now, which is that actually, I trust my initial feeling about it - I just don't think the defenders are any good, and I don't think they're professional enough to develop (old dogs and new tricks, maybe?).
The players we had didn't fit with Houllier and vice versa. Unless they were going to give him another £200m to build a new side he was the wrong choice.
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good job Bolton Wigan and Blackburn fill the bottom three places because this load of wasters will contrive to do their best to screw us .
Ireland looked totally disinterested on the bench, only Herd & Given can come away with any credit from that performance
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good job Bolton Wigan and Blackburn fill the bottom three places because this load of wasters will contrive to do their best to screw us .
Ireland looked totally disinterested on the bench, only Herd & Given can come away with any credit from that performance
What do you want Ireland to do.. he's sitting watching dross football for an hour and a half.
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good job Bolton Wigan and Blackburn fill the bottom three places because this load of wasters will contrive to do their best to screw us .
Ireland looked totally disinterested on the bench, only Herd & Given can come away with any credit from that performance
Gabby was head and shoulders our best player. Petrov second. Those two are the only reason we're not in the bottom 3.
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Fucking woeful. Set pieces should be sorted with Dunne and Collins, yet you know what's going to happen every single time. Where is Carlos? By far our best defender imo, reads the game better than anyone. Collins fucking pumps that ball up every time.
How many times are we going to blame the owner and manager? Its clearly the players, no pride in the Villa shirt with a few exceptions
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Can't really comment on the game itself, as I couldn't find a stream that worked for more than 2 seconds without lag.
However, a draw no shock between 2 very average teams.
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Houllier was never the problem, the players he clearly wanted rid of were the problem.
Yeah, this is an interesting point and one that I agree with. I went from blaming the players wholly, to thinking Houllier was just not able to work with them (after the players all came out and bitched) to where I am now, which is that actually, I trust my initial feeling about it - I just don't think the defenders are any good, and I don't think they're professional enough to develop (old dogs and new tricks, maybe?).
Reminds me of the lunatics running the assylum (intended spelling)
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I hate Mcleish, we are going nowhere with him in charge!
I miss Houllier!
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Houllier was never the problem, the players he clearly wanted rid of were the problem.
Yeah, this is an interesting point and one that I agree with. I went from blaming the players wholly, to thinking Houllier was just not able to work with them (after the players all came out and bitched) to where I am now, which is that actually, I trust my initial feeling about it - I just don't think the defenders are any good, and I don't think they're professional enough to develop (old dogs and new tricks, maybe?).
Reminds me of the lunatics running the assylum (spelling intended)
Huh?
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Thought we played pretty well today but we completely bottled it after going ahead late on. Warnock and Dunne committed two stupid fouls within minutes of each other to give Larsson one of the best deadfall takers in the league a chance to ping a couple of crosses in. It was the only way they were going to score and predictably they did.
Some positives, all the defenders played well in general. Hutton was much improved but still each of them made a bad mistake each. Dunne and Warnock with the ridiculous yellows. Hutton for the first and Collins went asleep for the second. Definitely think we should go back to zonal. Those calling for replacements well it was Cuellar last week for losing Scharner so I reckon it's the organisation back there that's wrong rather than the individuals. Of course there is one way to stop conceding goals from set pieces - stop giving away freekicks in dangerous areas.
Much better from Nzogbia today. Couple of good blocks away from his first goal. Petrov was the best midfielder on view I thought. Herd had a decent second half but needs to be braver on the ball. Heskey held it up ok but we aren't going anywhere with him or Gabby on the left. Bent still nowhere near the level of last season. Should have been sharper for the chance in the first half but simply had to bury the one in the second. To be fair to Bent he showed a lot more for the ball today and in general there was less route one from us aswell.
Two points dropped imo. Bruce won't last the season at Sunderland I feel. They were very poor in midfield. Wickham got a fine goal but apart from that I think they will finish below us this season.
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The only crumb of comfort I took from that game was that N'Zogbia started to look good in spells
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Did'nt see the game butlistened to it on the radio.
Positives for me were:
Herd....could have the athletic, quick, aggressive defensive midfielder we have been looking for the last 5 years.
N'Zog.....only 24, growing into the team according to the radio, he is our mecurial player who we need to open teams up.
Bannan and Jenas.......will probably be 2 of our 1st choice midfielders in the next few weeks, so can only get better.
What worries me is the obvious.Why can't Collins, Dunne and Heskey win a header in the last minute.Collins is there for one reason, and in the last 2 weeks he has been responsible for at least 2 goals.He is a liability apart from his defending, so if hes not doing that then he should'nt be picked.
I might be over optimistic, but i think we have a developing team that will get better and better.Bannan, Herd, N'Zog, Clarke, Gabby, all under 25, all key players.
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Houllier was never the problem, the players he clearly wanted rid of were the problem.
Yeah, this is an interesting point and one that I agree with. I went from blaming the players wholly, to thinking Houllier was just not able to work with them (after the players all came out and bitched) to where I am now, which is that actually, I trust my initial feeling about it - I just don't think the defenders are any good, and I don't think they're professional enough to develop (old dogs and new tricks, maybe?).
Reminds me of the lunatics running the assylum (spelling intended)
Huh?
sorry meant to be mine
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Did'nt see the game butlistened to it on the radio.
Positives for me were:
Herd....could have the athletic, quick, aggressive defensive midfielder we have been looking for the last 5 years.
N'Zog.....only 24, growing into the team according to the radio, he is our mecurial player who we need to open teams up.
Bannan and Jenas.......will probably be 2 of our 1st choice midfielders in the next few weeks, so can only get better.
What worries me is the obvious.Why can't Collins, Dunne and Heskey win a header in the last minute.Collins is there for one reason, and in the last 2 weeks he has been responsible for at least 2 goals.He is a liability apart from his defending, so if hes not doing that then he should'nt be picked.
I might be over optimistic, but i think we have a developing team that will get better and better.Bannan, Herd, N'Zog, Clarke, Gabby, all under 25, all key players.
Promise has to turn into something more at some stage though BLF. Agree we have some promise though.
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Did albrighton play? I'm seriously worried about that lad tbh
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Houllier was never the problem, the players he clearly wanted rid of were the problem.
Yeah, this is an interesting point and one that I agree with. I went from blaming the players wholly, to thinking Houllier was just not able to work with them (after the players all came out and bitched) to where I am now, which is that actually, I trust my initial feeling about it - I just don't think the defenders are any good, and I don't think they're professional enough to develop (old dogs and new tricks, maybe?).
Reminds me of the lunatics running the assylum (spelling intended)
Huh?
sorry meant to be mine
No probs OTN.
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The defence was woeful.
Hutton is a very, very poor excuse for a right back.
Only positive was Gabby and Herd and Petrov's workrate.
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Did albrighton play? I'm seriously worried about that lad tbh
Replaced N'Zogbia for the last 5 minutes. Still failed to impress but to be fair he had hardly any game time
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
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I'm with Dave W, you build from draws and then start turning them into wins. Give AM a chance, I don't think we will be world beaters but he needs time.
Confidence isn't built in a few months it takes time.
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Did we really have the 59% possession the beeb are saying we had? We haven't even got close to that so far this season
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I'd have settled for a point before the game, but by god, I am fed up of us being incapable of seeing games out and picking up 3 points. 9 points already dropped this season from winning positions, 1 point gained from losing ones.
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PEASE CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY HESKEY IS IN THE TEAM, AS HE CANNOT PASS ( SURELY HE EVEN STUGGLES TO PASS WIND)
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...needs to be braver on the ball.
This appears to be one of our key problems. The midfield appear to be so cautious in possession that they do not make forward passes. This results in the ball going backwards to Collins and Dunne. But by the time these defenders have got the ball every other bugger has trotted up field, so their only option is the hoof down the channels.
The forwards need to move more and make themselves available and the midfielders need to occasionally trust these players to receive the ball to feet whilst under pressure.
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PEASE CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY HESKEY IS IN THE TEAM, AS HE CANNOT PASS ( SURELY HE EVEN STUGGLES TO PASS WIND)
I thought he played well today. He made a few mistakes but over 90 minutes everyone does.
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threw away a winning position again..we'll struggle to get 40 pts at this rate!
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this feels a lot like MON's first season. A lot of draws and a team trying to figure things out. Disappointing not to hold on. Seems to blight us whoever the manager is. We're a mid table team playing mid table football. We need a spark from somwhere but given the finances we might have to wait until next season to get it.
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this feels a lot like MON's first season. A lot of draws and a team trying to figure things out. Disappointing not to hold on. Seems to blight us whoever the manager is. We're a mid table team playing mid table football. We need a spark from somwhere but given the finances we might have to wait until next season to get it.
Well said.
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Can we talk about Albrighton coming on to secure our three points.. Albrighton?! What in the hell are you thinking McLeish?
Contrary to what some have said, I thought N'Zogbia was rubbish, yet again. McLeish had to get him off. At least Albrighton made their defence work for a bit. Yet again, Bent missed a sitter.
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this feels a lot like MON's first season. A lot of draws and a team trying to figure things out. Disappointing not to hold on. Seems to blight us whoever the manager is. We're a mid table team playing mid table football. We need a spark from somwhere but given the finances we might have to wait until next season to get it.
Weren't we third at the start of November in O'Neill's first season?
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Well didn't see the first half so can't comment but we came in 1-1 so not all bad. Watched the second half on a stream and I was pleasantly encouraged if I'm honest. Gabby, Petrov and Bent were causing problems and how Bent didn't score when slipped through by Gab I don't know. N'Zog had his best game in a Villa shirt i thought and Warnock and Hutton seemed to gte forwards well. Herd was tidy in front of the back 4 and looks a real natural slot for that role if a bit impetuous at times. We dominated possession and territory throughout the 2nd half however the two centre backs were poor today, woeful distribution, James Collins should have his right foot cut off so he can't keep trying his aimless Hollywod style punting into the opposition half, and to let the little Sessegnon fellow all 5 foot 8 of him between them for that equaliser is criminal.
Anyway its a point which is a lot better than I was expecting.
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I thought we were the better team but for some reason that I don't understand we've forgotten how to defend set pieces. In open play we coped with most things but looked in trouble all game from corners. What makes all the harder to take is that for the first 7 games we were fine and looked to have shaken off the problems of last season. Perhaps it's a confidence thing.
On the plus side, Gabby, N'Zogbia, Petrov and Herd all had good games and both full backs attacked with purpose. We controlled the gsme fir long periods but lacked a clinical edge.
I always think an away point is a good result and although conceding a late goal makes it feel less so I prefer to concentrate on the positives.
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At the risk of going against the Warnock/Hutton haters im fed up of Collins, who keeps telling him to hoof the ball forward and why does he keep losing players at set pieces!
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Yet again, Bent missed a sitter.
We knew what we were getting with Bent. Largely anonymous but scores when he gets a chance. Well in the last two matches he has had two sitters which, if scored, could have resulted in two wins.
I don't think we need to be too drastic in trying to create more chances as under normal circumstances he would have taken those chances (or at least that is what he is paid to do).
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
We have 12 points after 10 games and are playing shite football, can people see Us getting another 12 points from our next 10 games?
On our current form we will finish in the bottom 6, let's just hope it's the right end of that 6.
With Mcleish in charge we will not improve technically (he's turned Bent into pub player with his team selections), we will not attract players we can actually afford and our attendance's will only get worse.
Depressing.
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
We have 12 points after 10 games and are playing shite football, can people see Us getting another 12 points from our next 10 games?
On our current form we will finish in the bottom 6, let's just hope it's the right end of that 6.
With Mcleish in charge we will not improve technically (he's turned Bent into pub player with his team selections), we will not attract players we can actually afford and our attendance's will only get worse.
Depressing.
So how many did we lose by today?
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With Mcleish in charge we will not improve technically (he's turned Bent into pub player with his team selections), we will not attract players we can actually afford and our attendance's will only get worse.
Bent has never been known for getting too involved in a team's build up. If anything that aspect of his game has improved recently.
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Bent is supposed to score not get in the build up. But let's leave off because when he hits form again we've got a goalscorer. The problem isn't up top, its in defence and with the shit set pieces. We just need to concentrate on winning next week now
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this feels a lot like MON's first season. A lot of draws and a team trying to figure things out. Disappointing not to hold on. Seems to blight us whoever the manager is. We're a mid table team playing mid table football. We need a spark from somwhere but given the finances we might have to wait until next season to get it.
Weren't we third at the start of November in O'Neill's first season?
not sure, but we had around 15 points at the end of October and finished 11th that season.
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He'll come around. He saved us last year with only 3 months. I can see him hitting a serious goal run against the bigger teams.
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Good game, Gabby was great between midfield and upfront, and Petrov and Warnock worked hard and good. We'd had deserved to win but a stupid foul and the usual poor defending on the consequent set piece costed us the draw (as usual).
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Brief highlights (http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/sunderland-aston-villa-15621510/)
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Well McLeish said he's not afraid to drop players who can't defend set pieces so we could see Carlos or Clarke or both back in against Norwich.
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Would have taken a draw before kick off. It's a decent away point but we are drawing too many. We need to get the bit between the teeth and develop a more clinical, winning mentality.
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He'll come around. He saved us last year with only 3 months. I can see him hitting a serious goal run against the bigger teams.
To turn those 3-0 defeats into 3-1 defeats.
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If Benty had scored that sitter we'd have won.
That's 2 in 2 weeks now, we need his goals as we don't create loads of chances.
N'Zog looked good, he could have scored on another day, Gabby gave his all - booked for something non bookable, and Heskey gave the ball away to help them with their 1st goal.
Could VERY easily have been 3 points.
Oh, Herd - he may be a decent player for us, links well, and passes well.
Optimism amongst pessimism.
WIP Villa, not RIP yet.
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
We have 12 points after 10 games and are playing shite football, can people see Us getting another 12 points from our next 10 games?
On our current form we will finish in the bottom 6, let's just hope it's the right end of that 6.
With Mcleish in charge we will not improve technically (he's turned Bent into pub player with his team selections), we will not attract players we can actually afford and our attendance's will only get worse.
Depressing.
So how many did we lose by today?
The problem is Sunderland are the worst side we have faced this season by a long way.
The game was there for the taking and we didn't,the run of games we now have people are gonna be worried,myself included.
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Well McLeish said he's not afraid to drop players who can't defend set pieces so we could see Carlos or Clarke or both back in against Norwich.
He said that a few weeks ago and the clowns were still playing today.
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It's not about losing games, it is about not winning them.
We have won one of our last nine matches.
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Like all good strikers, Darren Bent will miss sitters, Luis Suarez misses them too, so does Rooney, Torres, Van Persie, Drogba yadda yadda yadda yadda, the difference being they are likely to get more chances in the same game than Bent does. His overall play isn't as good as those players, if it were, he'd be playing for a top four side because his goalscoring record for teams who don't create as many chances as the top four teams has been bloody excellent over the last few seasons.
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I think bringing Clark in could add a bit of composure to the defence. We'll lose a bit aerially but as seen in the last three matches we're not exactly shit hot in that area with two big lumps at centre back either.
Assuming Jenas is fit, I'd bring him in for Heskey to see what he can do.
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Comparisons with MON's first season are pointless as we were in a totally different financial situation back then. We were on an upward curve with a number of factors in our favour, now we have a worse manager, no money and all the enthusiasm we had back then has evaporated.
I admire the optimists but looking at the fixtures I really worry how things will be looking once the 1st of January comes around.
Sunderland were there for the taking today and despite leading twice we couldn't do the job. If we don't beat Norwich I think some some hostility will start creeping in at Villa Park although with our owner AWOL I'm not sure who it will be directed at. That is now a massive game I think.
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At least McLeish has improved our defence, espeically when it comes to set pieces and the last 10 minutes. Oh wait, no he hasn't. What's he good for again?
I miss Houllier. Under him we created more chances and had better possession. His long term plan was more exciting as well. With McLeish, this is it. This is his ceiling and it's not gonna be pretty come December.
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You can't really blame Bent for missing that chance today.
He was probably just over excited at actually receiving the ball in their penalty area.
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
We have 12 points after 10 games and are playing shite football, can people see Us getting another 12 points from our next 10 games?
On our current form we will finish in the bottom 6, let's just hope it's the right end of that 6.
With Mcleish in charge we will not improve technically (he's turned Bent into pub player with his team selections), we will not attract players we can actually afford and our attendance's will only get worse.
Depressing.
So how many did we lose by today?
The problem is Sunderland are the worst side we have faced this season by a long way.
The game was there for the taking and we didn't,the run of games we now have people are gonna be worried,myself included.
We don't half seem to have faced a lot of "worst sides this season."
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At least McLeish has improved our defence, espeically when it comes to set pieces and the last 10 minutes. Oh wait, no he hasn't. What's he good for again?
I miss Houllier. Under him we created more chances and had better possession. His long term plan was more exciting as well. With McLeish, this is it. This is his ceiling and it's not gonna be pretty come December.
My concern is that, under Houllier, i could see what he was trying to do, and I liked it - we just weren't managing to do it very often.
With McLeish, I can see what he's trying to do, and I don't think I like it very much.
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
We have 12 points after 10 games and are playing shite football, can people see Us getting another 12 points from our next 10 games?
On our current form we will finish in the bottom 6, let's just hope it's the right end of that 6.
With Mcleish in charge we will not improve technically (he's turned Bent into pub player with his team selections), we will not attract players we can actually afford and our attendance's will only get worse.
Depressing.
So how many did we lose by today?
The problem is Sunderland are the worst side we have faced this season by a long way.
The game was there for the taking and we didn't,the run of games we now have people are gonna be worried,myself included.
We don't half seem to have faced a lot of "worst sides this season."
Dave we had more of the ball today than they did,when was the last time we could say that playing away from home?
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Dave we had more of the ball today than they did,when was the last time we could say that playing away from home?
Well done us for getting it then.
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Dave are you actually making a point?
Paul hit the nail on the head, we can't buy a win at the moment and Mcleish's team selection and tactics are shite and have isolated Bent.
A confident Bent would have slotted that ball home 6 yards out today.
We can't defend, we don't score many and we have no midfield.
Paul Merson summed us up before kickoff "villa might nick a goal but their not gonna put 3 or 4 past them" and that's against Sunderland.
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Dave we had more of the ball today than they did,when was the last time we could say that playing away from home?
Well done us for getting it then.
Did you see the game?
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Dave we had more of the ball today than they did,when was the last time we could say that playing away from home?
Well done us for getting it then.
Did you see the game?
I'd hate to see how pissed off you and Compass get when we lose.
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
We have 12 points after 10 games and are playing shite football, can people see Us getting another 12 points from our next 10 games?
On our current form we will finish in the bottom 6, let's just hope it's the right end of that 6.
With Mcleish in charge we will not improve technically (he's turned Bent into pub player with his team selections), we will not attract players we can actually afford and our attendance's will only get worse.
Depressing.
So how many did we lose by today?
The problem is Sunderland are the worst side we have faced this season by a long way.
The game was there for the taking and we didn't,the run of games we now have people are gonna be worried,myself included.
Being a bit picky but the worst team is surely the one that has lost 7 games on the bounce? That would be Wigan then.
A point at the Stadium of Light isn't a bad result. It is just very frustrating to lose a goal from a set piece yet again. Sort our defence out and we'll win more than we'll lose. Is Mcleish the man to do that, who knows?
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I cannot think of another side in the top 16 Heskey would get into.
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At least McLeish has improved our defence, espeically when it comes to set pieces and the last 10 minutes. Oh wait, no he hasn't. What's he good for again?
I miss Houllier. Under him we created more chances and had better possession. His long term plan was more exciting as well. With McLeish, this is it. This is his ceiling and it's not gonna be pretty come December.
And Sunderland beat us twice last season ....
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Dave are you actually making a point?
Paul hit the nail on the head, we can't buy a win at the moment and Mcleish's team selection and tactics are shite and have isolated Bent.
A confident Bent would have slotted that ball home 6 yards out today.
We can't defend, we don't score many and we have no midfield.
Paul Merson summed us up before kickoff "villa might nick a goal but their not gonna put 3 or 4 past them" and that's against Sunderland.
The point I am making is that today we played a game which almost half of even our supporters thought we would lose according to the poll on here and which bookies made Sunderland strong favourites to win. We got a point and could/should have got three. I would say that's worth a bit of praise to the team, instead of which we're getting constant, repetitive whinging.
What's your point?
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The problem is Sunderland are the worst side we have faced this season by a long way.
The game was there for the taking and we didn't,the run of games we now have people are gonna be worried,myself included.
I hardly think that S'land were the worst team we've faced! Wigan and B'burn are the frontrunners for that award.
Having watched the whole game, I thought that Whickham and Bendtner were a very good attacking pairing, Sessegnon was excellent, and their Centre Backs also played well. We did not face a team that was rampant, but they were no mugs.
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Well, before the game I would have taken champagne and a quick hand-job from Lauren Laverne in the North Stand. So a draw is not bad really.
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Our last nine games; D/D/D/L/D/W/L/L/D and the only 'big six' team we've played is Man City, oh dear. We've won two out of ten league games, both against 18th and 20th in the league who are shite. The football we're playing is diabolical and we can't defend to save our lives, especially set pieces. And to think McLeish's only plus point was that he 'would make us more solid' and 'we won't concede many', whats he got going for him now then? We'll never score many with him in charge so when we can't defend and give sloppy goals away from set pieces that equals trouble.
We HAVE to beat Norwich with Swansea a, Spurs a, Man Utd h, Bolton a, Arsenal h, Liverpool h, Stoke a, Chelsea a coming up. There aren't many points for us amongst that lot and my prediction of 17 points by January is actually looking a bit ambitious.
Oh and Alan Hutton is one of the worst players i've seen in a Villa shirt, absolutely dreadful. And how the feck does Heskey still get picked and play 90 minutes, especially in midfield? He's garbage.
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I thought and said with McLeash at the helm we would now start to see games out, it's clearly not the case which is disappointing. Our defending at set pieces is a joke if it wasn't so worrying.
At 1-1 I thought we'd lose it so to finish 2-2 isn't so bad and an improvement on last season.
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Just looked at this thread without checking the score. Judging by the comments we must have got battered - how many did we lose by?
Any US sports journalist would describe this as "Villa lose 2-2"
Yes we got battered in the last minute again as we did against QPR. It is depressing.
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Its amazing how people have accepted getting a draw as a good result, when Villa were in the lead twice and couldn't defend/extend that lead.
I call that sloppy and wasteful!
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sooner warnock and heskey get dropped the better
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I think bringing Clark in could add a bit of composure to the defence. We'll lose a bit aerially but as seen in the last three matches we're not exactly shit hot in that area with two big lumps at centre back either.
Assuming Jenas is fit, I'd bring him in for Heskey to see what he can do.
Clark played at Man City, our worst defensive display of the season. I like him and think he has a big future but I'm not sure he's the man to sort out the specific issue we have with set pieces.
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Its amazing how people have accepted getting a draw as a good result, when Villa were in the lead twice and couldn't defend/extend that lead.
I call that sloppy and wasteful!
It's a frustrating result, not a bad one.
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Our last nine games; D/D/D/L/D/W/L/L/D and the only 'big six' team we've played is Man City, oh dear. We've won two out of ten league games, both against 18th and 20th in the league who are shite. The football we're playing is diabolical and we can't defend to save our lives, especially set pieces. And to think McLeish's only plus point was that he 'would make us more solid' and 'we won't concede many', whats he got going for him now then? We'll never score many with him in charge so when we can't defend and give sloppy goals away from set pieces that equals trouble.
We HAVE to beat Norwich with Swansea a, Spurs a, Man Utd h, Bolton a, Arsenal h, Liverpool h, Stoke a, Chelsea a coming up. There aren't many points for us amongst that lot and my prediction of 17 points by January is actually looking a bit ambitious.
Oh and Alan Hutton is one of the worst players i've seen in a Villa shirt, absolutely dreadful. And how the feck does Heskey still get picked and play 90 minutes, especially in midfield? He's garbage.
Oh, thanks goodness you're here.
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A point away against Sunderland is decent. The let-down so far this season is the number of points lost (through draws and losing against WBA) at Villa Park.
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Our last nine games; D/D/D/L/D/W/L/L/D and the only 'big six' team we've played is Man City, oh dear. We've won two out of ten league games, both against 18th and 20th in the league who are shite. The football we're playing is diabolical and we can't defend to save our lives, especially set pieces. And to think McLeish's only plus point was that he 'would make us more solid' and 'we won't concede many', whats he got going for him now then? We'll never score many with him in charge so when we can't defend and give sloppy goals away from set pieces that equals trouble.
We HAVE to beat Norwich with Swansea a, Spurs a, Man Utd h, Bolton a, Arsenal h, Liverpool h, Stoke a, Chelsea a coming up. There aren't many points for us amongst that lot and my prediction of 17 points by January is actually looking a bit ambitious.
Oh and Alan Hutton is one of the worst players i've seen in a Villa shirt, absolutely dreadful. And how the feck does Heskey still get picked and play 90 minutes, especially in midfield? He's garbage.
Why do we have to? I think you forget how many shit teams there are in the league. Take out the obvious 4, plus Spurs, the rest are as bad as us and most are even worse (maybe not Liverpool). When criticising us for being shit (which I think we are), I think you forget how crap the league actually is.
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Dave are you actually making a point?
Paul hit the nail on the head, we can't buy a win at the moment and Mcleish's team selection and tactics are shite and have isolated Bent.
A confident Bent would have slotted that ball home 6 yards out today.
We can't defend, we don't score many and we have no midfield.
Paul Merson summed us up before kickoff "villa might nick a goal but their not gonna put 3 or 4 past them" and that's against Sunderland.
The point I am making is that today we played a game which almost half of even our supporters thought we would lose according to the poll on here and which bookies made Sunderland strong favourites to win. We got a point and could/should have got three. I would say that's worth a bit of praise to the team, instead of which we're getting constant, repetitive whinging.
What's your point?
I like the fact you managed to get "point" in there three times. It's what we need to start getting as a team. An away point at Sunderland wouldn't normally be a bad result but the fact is the more we go through the season only getting one point at best, the more the pressure is on for us to get wins.
Are you honestly saying that at the end of the current fixtures where we have only played two teams currently in the top 10, you are happy with only 2 wins?
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Dave are you actually making a point?
Paul hit the nail on the head, we can't buy a win at the moment and Mcleish's team selection and tactics are shite and have isolated Bent.
A confident Bent would have slotted that ball home 6 yards out today.
We can't defend, we don't score many and we have no midfield.
Paul Merson summed us up before kickoff "villa might nick a goal but their not gonna put 3 or 4 past them" and that's against Sunderland.
The point I am making is that today we played a game which almost half of even our supporters thought we would lose according to the poll on here and which bookies made Sunderland strong favourites to win. We got a point and could/should have got three. I would say that's worth a bit of praise to the team, instead of which we're getting constant, repetitive whinging.
What's your point?
I like the fact you managed to get "point" in there three times. It's what we need to start getting as a team. An away point at Sunderland wouldn't normally be a bad result but the fact is the more we go through the season only getting one point at best, the more the pressure is on for us to get wins.
Are you honestly saying that at the end of the current fixtures where we have only played two teams currently in the top 10, you are happy with only 2 wins?
I'm not happy, I think we should have done better but I'm not going to criticise a point at Sunderland.
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A point away against Sunderland is decent.
Totally agree.
but by christ...its painful on the eyes watching it.
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Our last nine games; D/D/D/L/D/W/L/L/D and the only 'big six' team we've played is Man City, oh dear. We've won two out of ten league games, both against 18th and 20th in the league who are shite. The football we're playing is diabolical and we can't defend to save our lives, especially set pieces. And to think McLeish's only plus point was that he 'would make us more solid' and 'we won't concede many', whats he got going for him now then? We'll never score many with him in charge so when we can't defend and give sloppy goals away from set pieces that equals trouble.
We HAVE to beat Norwich with Swansea a, Spurs a, Man Utd h, Bolton a, Arsenal h, Liverpool h, Stoke a, Chelsea a coming up. There aren't many points for us amongst that lot and my prediction of 17 points by January is actually looking a bit ambitious.
Oh and Alan Hutton is one of the worst players i've seen in a Villa shirt, absolutely dreadful. And how the feck does Heskey still get picked and play 90 minutes, especially in midfield? He's garbage.
Let me guess - you just got beat by lpool so you come back to villa for the week?
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Gabby looked very very pissed off at the end. I'm not sure he's enjoying his football at the moment.
I like Mr Herd.
Favourite moment was in the second half when the Tumbling Bear shaped to shoot and a bloke behind us shouted 'Mind the windows'.
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Clark played at Man City, our worst defensive display of the season.
There is an argument that says conceding 4 at Mancity is not as bad as conceding 2 against donkey teams like WBA and Sunderland.
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Well yes a point at Sunderland is not bad however it was the way we lost a winning position that is disheartening.
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Where will our next three points come from?
The next three games?
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Where will our next three points come from?
The next three games?
Perhaps 4 points tops:
Next three games are:
5 Norwich (H)
21 Tottenham (A)
27 Swansea (A)
December worries me though:
3 Man Utd (H)
10 Bolton (A)
17 Liverpool (H)
21 Arsenal (H)
26 Stoke (A)
31 Chelsea (A)
At worse case scenario, you could possible see us only getting about 2 points from that lot.
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Well yes a point at Sunderland is not bad however it was the way we lost a winning position that is disheartening.
This.
We're already being quoted as the team who have lost more points than any other from winning positions - TWICE today - (sound familiar? - we were the experts at this last year!) and from set pieces again!
The players on the field have to take responsibility for letting it happen, in the same way that we surrendered to a s**t team last week cos we went one man down!
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Perhaps 4 points tops:
Next three games are:
5 Norwich (H) D
21 Tottenham (A) L
27 Swansea (A) D
December worries me though:
3 Man Utd (H) L
10 Bolton (A) D
17 Liverpool (H) L
21 Arsenal (H) L
26 Stoke (A) D
31 Chelsea (A) L
At worse case scenario, you could possible see us only getting about 2 points from that lot.
4 for me.
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On my way back. I thought we did ok, and would have accepted a point at the start. If the scoring had been the other way round (us score last and late like at Everton)it would have been more enjoyable. I have to say the support was good considering how downbeat we all are. As ever an away goal celebration is so much better than a home goal one.
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Clark played at Man City, our worst defensive display of the season.
There is an argument that says conceding 4 at Mancity is not as bad as conceding 2 against donkey teams like WBA and Sunderland.
The argument falls down when you consider the goals we conceded. They're a much better team than us but we didn't help ourselves with the way we defended.
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Perhaps 4 points tops:
Next three games are:
5 Norwich (H) D
21 Tottenham (A) L
27 Swansea (A) D
December worries me though:
3 Man Utd (H) L
10 Bolton (A) D
17 Liverpool (H) L
21 Arsenal (H) L
26 Stoke (A) D
31 Chelsea (A) L
At worse case scenario, you could possible see us only getting about 2 points from that lot.
4 for me.
Although, if we are all good boys and girls and write nice letters to Santa, he might leave us a few points in our stockings on Christmas morning.
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Where will our next three points come from?
The next three games?
Perhaps 4 points tops:
Next three games are:
5 Norwich (H)
21 Tottenham (A)
27 Swansea (A)
December worries me though:
3 Man Utd (H)
10 Bolton (A)
17 Liverpool (H)
21 Arsenal (H)
26 Stoke (A)
31 Chelsea (A)
At worse case scenario, you could possible see us only getting about 2 points from that lot.
It was more of a (poor) quip on how we always fucking draw.
It's a decent point, but how many times have we dropped points in the last minute in the last 18 months?
That's two managers now, both who could boast having had pretty miserly defences in previous jobs, who can't seem to get Collins and Dunne and co to see out 90 minutes.
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Well yes a point at Sunderland is not bad however it was the way we lost a winning position that is disheartening.
This.
We're already being quoted as the team who have lost more points than any other from winning positions - TWICE today - (sound familiar? - we were the experts at this last year!) and from set pieces again!
The players on the field have to take responsibility for letting it happen, in the same way that we surrendered to a s**t team last week cos we went one man down!
Agreed and it's the same sorry story of not defending set pieces, how can this keep happening, it's not all McLeish's fault, as you point out we were doing this last season under a different manager but he has to address it.
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Perhaps 4 points tops:
Next three games are:
5 Norwich (H) D
21 Tottenham (A) L
27 Swansea (A) D
December worries me though:
3 Man Utd (H) L
10 Bolton (A) D
17 Liverpool (H) L
21 Arsenal (H) L
26 Stoke (A) D
31 Chelsea (A) L
At worse case scenario, you could possible see us only getting about 2 points from that lot.
4 for me.
No-one predicted that we would win six points against Arsenal and Liverpool at the end of last season. However, if we do take a battering in December (not unlikely, I'll admit) it will be important that we pick ourselves up.
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It's funny I paid attention to the score and that's about it today. When we went 2-1 up I celebrated, but I knew we'd give it away. How was the game to those who watched?
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Next three games are:
5 Norwich (H) W
21 Tottenham (A) W
27 Swansea (A) W
December worries me though:
3 Man Utd (H) W
10 Bolton (A) W
17 Liverpool (H) W
21 Arsenal (H) W
26 Stoke (A) D
31 Chelsea (A) W
25 points and we are back in the hunt. Wooooo you all need to live in my world!
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I see three wins and two draws in December.
The big man will have it sorted by then, and we'll bounce into the New Year looking at the FA Cup convinced it's our year.
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Scoring two goals has made me happy.
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Scoring two goals has made me happy.
Me too....but...
none from Mr Bent.
Has he lost his touch? Should have buried at least one last week and today.
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Well I would have taken a point before the game like everyone else but we should have held on, Sunderland looked poor and our defending is worrying but there were positives with NZogbia was a lot better so was Hutton. Heskey shouldn't be playing in that formation, but I don't pick the team.
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Scoring two goals has made me happy.
Me too....but...
none from Mr Bent.
Has he lost his touch? Should have buried at least one last week and today.
Yep he should have scored them but it was his first touch in the penalty area throughout the game.
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Perhaps 4 points tops:
Next three games are:
5 Norwich (H) D
21 Tottenham (A) L
27 Swansea (A) D
December worries me though:
3 Man Utd (H) L
10 Bolton (A) D
17 Liverpool (H) L
21 Arsenal (H) L
26 Stoke (A) D
31 Chelsea (A) L
At worse case scenario, you could possible see us only getting about 2 points from that lot.
4 for me.
Although, if we are all good boys and girls and write nice letters to Santa, he might leave us a few points in our stockings on Christmas morning.
21 would be perfect.
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Well I would have taken a point before the game like everyone else but we should have held on, Sunderland looked poor and our defending is worrying but there were positives with NZogbia was a lot better so was Hutton. Heskey shouldn't be playing in that formation, but I don't pick the team.
I think you should.
You'd make at least one improvement!
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Dave are you actually making a point?
Paul hit the nail on the head, we can't buy a win at the moment and Mcleish's team selection and tactics are shite and have isolated Bent.
A confident Bent would have slotted that ball home 6 yards out today.
We can't defend, we don't score many and we have no midfield.
Paul Merson summed us up before kickoff "villa might nick a goal but their not gonna put 3 or 4 past them" and that's against Sunderland.
The point I am making is that today we played a game which almost half of even our supporters thought we would lose according to the poll on here and which bookies made Sunderland strong favourites to win. We got a point and could/should have got three. I would say that's worth a bit of praise to the team, instead of which we're getting constant, repetitive whinging.
What's your point?
My Point is the manager isn't good enough, we are hindering Bent's quality and we are playing a useless lump in midfield (heskey).
My point is on current form we are heading for a relegation battle.
I'm not constantly whining every week, I am always positive and nearly always vote Villa win, but I'm really depressed at the state of our club at the moment.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
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I think from now until the end of December 4 points is the absolute worst case scenario. Most likely it'll be around 9ish I'd say.
I think it's very harsh for people to be labelling the manager as not good enough after 10 league games though. Considering all the negativity floating around with certain sections of the support I think he's made a solid if unspectacular start at the club. If we actually want to achieve anything we're not going to get anywhere sacking managers after a handful of games because some people have no patience.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
Agreed, we weren't that bad today Dave.
We're not whinging, just desperate for our team to win and frustrated that we gave the lead away TWICE in the last 5 minutes of each half. We conceded last week with one minute to go to half time. With the most positive attitude in the world that's a real bugger that we'd rather not have!
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
Well, if we can't moan that a point at Sunderland is a bad result, then we'll have to moan that we're now so bad that at point at Sunderland is a good result!
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying off people until you have.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying people until you have.
It'll be fascinating to see how many people Dave can lay before Match of the Day.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying people until you have.
It'll be fascinating to see how many people Dave can lay before Match of the Day.
Edited by the stupid one.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying people until you have.
You're absolutely right. I wasn't watching the match on my computer this afternoon. What a disgrace that makes me.
Now please tell me, because I'd love to know:
How does watching a match or not make any difference to what constitutes a good result, and how does it mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
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Ther
Dave are you actually making a point?
Paul hit the nail on the head, we can't buy a win at the moment and Mcleish's team selection and tactics are shite and have isolated Bent.
A confident Bent would have slotted that ball home 6 yards out today.
We can't defend, we don't score many and we have no midfield.
Paul Merson summed us up before kickoff "villa might nick a goal but their not gonna put 3 or 4 past them" and that's against Sunderland.
The point I am making is that today we played a game which almost half of even our supporters thought we would lose according to the poll on here and which bookies made Sunderland strong favourites to win. We got a point and could/should have got three. I would say that's worth a bit of praise to the team, instead of which we're getting constant, repetitive whinging.
What's your point?
My Point is the manager isn't good enough, we are hindering Bent's quality and we are playing a useless lump in midfield (heskey).
My point is on current form we are heading for a relegation battle.
I'm not constantly whining every week, I am always positive and nearly always vote Villa win, but I'm really depressed at the state of our club at the moment.
Are you upset because we didn't lose?
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying people until you have.
You're absolutely right. I wasn't watching the match on my computer this afternoon. What a disgrace that makes me.
Now please tell me, because I'd love to know:
How does watching a match or not make any difference to what constitutes a good result, and how does it mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
You have been having a go at anyone tonight,who hasn't been throwing one out that we got a point at Sunderland.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying people until you have.
You're absolutely right. I wasn't watching the match on my computer this afternoon. What a disgrace that makes me.
Now please tell me, because I'd love to know:
How does watching a match or not make any difference to what constitutes a good result, and how does it mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
You have been having a go at anyone tonight,who hasn't been throwing one out that we got a point at Sunderland.
I haven't, and neither have I seen any sort of justification for the moaning that accompanied it.
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@ Dave Clark five, don't be daft.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying people until you have.
You're absolutely right. I wasn't watching the match on my computer this afternoon. What a disgrace that makes me.
Now please tell me, because I'd love to know:
How does watching a match or not make any difference to what constitutes a good result, and how does it mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
You have been having a go at anyone tonight,who hasn't been throwing one out that we got a point at Sunderland.
I haven't, and neither have I seen any sort of justification for the moaning that accompanied it.
The justification is as my earlier post Dave.
In both of our last two games we could, and should, have done better.
Not a whinge. A fact. Borne out of frustration for the team we love and want to see do better.
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If we're that bad then today is a good result. You can't have it both ways.
You havent seen todays game have you.how about laying people until you have.
You're absolutely right. I wasn't watching the match on my computer this afternoon. What a disgrace that makes me.
Now please tell me, because I'd love to know:
How does watching a match or not make any difference to what constitutes a good result, and how does it mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
You have been having a go at anyone tonight,who hasn't been throwing one out that we got a point at Sunderland.
I haven't, and neither have I seen any sort of justification for the moaning that accompanied it.
Because a point today is not a good result.When you see the game you will see how shit Sunderland are.
We should have came away with 3 easy points but we didn't because we have no defence.
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And at the risk of repetition, when you're as bad as some of our own supporters say we are, it's a good result.
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And at the risk of repetition, when you're as bad as some of our own supporters say we are, it's a good result.
Is that reverse psychology?
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I'm with Dave W, you build from draws and then start turning them into wins. Give AM a chance, I don't think we will be world beaters but he needs time.
Confidence isn't built in a few months it takes time.
So draw against all the dross in the league to get the confidence to go on and beat all the better teams in the league ? As a plan ...this is very bad. In reality it is relegation for sure.
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Lets see how confident we are after our 6 games in December when we could get something in the game at Bolton ( as long as they keep going the way they are) and very little else. If people think we aren't in the shit now, the turn of the year should drill it home.
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I wonder if Sunderland go ahead and sack Bruce later on in the season whether the football-expert Faulkner will tap him up to take over from AM.
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McLeish does not control Bent like a puppet on a string. Bent bottled that sitter and it cost us.
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Lets see how confident we are after our 6 games in December when we could get something in the game at Bolton ( as long as they keep going the way they are) and very little else. If people think we aren't in the shit now, the turn of the year should drill it home.
Like when we didn't get anything from the last two games of last season like everyone said we would?
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McLeish does not control Bent like a puppet on a string. Bent bottled that sitter and it cost us.
How many chances did Bent have today? We are totally lacking in creativity.
I think Marc Albrighton should be given 10 games to find his form like N'Zogbia has had. He would provide crosses for Bent, N'Zogbia never crosses the ball.
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Lets see how confident we are after our 6 games in December when we could get something in the game at Bolton ( as long as they keep going the way they are) and very little else. If people think we aren't in the shit now, the turn of the year should drill it home.
Like when we didn't get anything from the last two games of last season like everyone said we would?
Because we are the same team as last year aren't we.
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I wonder if Sunderland go ahead and sack Bruce later on in the season whether the football-expert Faulkner will tap him up to take over from AM.
Oh dear Lord noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Get back to the old spirit:
We shall overcome
We shall overcooome
We shall overcome one daaaayyyy
Foooorr deep in my heart
I do believe
That we shall overcome one day.
That song used to send tingles up my spine when we sang it in the late 60s.
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Lets see how confident we are after our 6 games in December when we could get something in the game at Bolton ( as long as they keep going the way they are) and very little else. If people think we aren't in the shit now, the turn of the year should drill it home.
Like when we didn't get anything from the last two games of last season like everyone said we would?
When we beat Man Utd, L''The Mighty Reds YNWA', Arsenal and Chelsea I will feel such a fool for my comment. The fact of the matter is that the only team we have played so far that we SHOULD struggle against is Man City. We have 2 wins against 2 of the few teams who will finish below us. I did think we would go down last season and I didn't see us getting anything from our last 2 games last season. That had jack to do with how we will fare out this season.
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Shrek
I agree about N'Zogbia but have a feeling he may come good.
The trouble with Bent is that he has missed another sitter. He may not be the style of centre forward we need. However, we have got him. He needs to go and get the ball.
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Shrek
I agree about N'Zogbia but have a feeling he may come good.
The trouble with Bent is that he has missed another sitter. He may not be the style of centre forward we need. However, we have got him. He needs to go and get the ball.
He can't, he isn't good enough, he is a goal scorer, that's it.
We are playing without any wingers, we need to get crosses in the box for Bent.
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I think even the most one eyed amongst us would agree that Man City, Man U, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool are a lot better than us.
The thing that worries me is that out of the 28 games we have left, 11 of them are against these sides. We used to get some reasonable results against said teams under MON, but there was a lot more quality in the team back then, and dare I say more character?
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Chelsea don't look too clever at the moment, just saying. Plus we normally give them a run for their money.
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Decent result i guess. A point up there is not to be sniffed at given our form. Unfortunately like most other people i'm struggling to see where many more are coming from this side of the new year. Still, maybe we pull a few results out of the bag. or AM will actuallly finally sort the defence out
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First time I've seen Petrov's goal. Simply class. Still the makings of a decent PL side if Randy invests a good £20m in January and ends the policy of retrenchment!
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Not much to go on from motd, but Collins defending for their 2nd was shocking. Free kick or no free kick that was shocking. Bents sitter wasn't as bad as been made out. Stan petrov take a bow. Errr, that's pretty much it
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Shrek
Why don't you live for the day instead of persecuting yourself?
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All of you miserablists would have chopped your left bollock off for a point before the game, but yet when we get a point it's apparently a bag of shite and we're shit?
You just want us to lose every game don't you? To justify your hatred for McLeish and all things Villa while he and (for some of you) Lerner are in charge.
I don't get you lot at all, yes times are tough, but wouldn't it be better to look for the positives in times like these, we gained a point in a tough away fixture, we are still in the top half of the table, we know from seeing us earlier in the season that we can actually defend set pieces and the last couple of games may just be an anomaly, we scored a couple of decent goals.
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Thought we played well tbh apart from the defending at the death as per.
Oh well. I'll get my coat. Up the Villa!
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whole defence barring shay needs shipping out. needed shipping out last season. best part of 20m there worth probably not much more than 10m now.
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whole defence barring shay needs shipping out. needed shipping out last season. best part of 20m there worth probably not much more than 10m now.
Try thinking about the good work they did and there was plenty of it. We are doing nothing up front.
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Norwich is going to be interesting. Let's see what team he picks.
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Norwich is going to be interesting. Let's see what team he picks.
And let's see how each of them play. Great goal by Petrov today. Must have ignored McLeish's instructions.
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whole defence barring shay needs shipping out. needed shipping out last season. best part of 20m there worth probably not much more than 10m now.
Try thinking about the good work they did and there was plenty of it. We are doing nothing up front.
In part yes in that we haven't got the players further up the field to take the pressure off them, but they really are lower table premiership defenders without the likes of Milner and co helping them out
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McLeish does not control Bent like a puppet on a string. Bent bottled that sitter and it cost us.
How many chances did Bent have today? We are totally lacking in creativity.
I think Marc Albrighton should be given 10 games to find his form like N'Zogbia has had. He would provide crosses for Bent, N'Zogbia never crosses the ball.
This.
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A 2-2 result away to Sunderland is a good result imo.I was expecting a third straight defeat and we stopped the rot.Probably should have won agreed, but most of us on here would have gladly accepted that result before kick off. In first half Zog looked lively, hungry and positive which is what we have all been waiting to happen,trouble is he always cuts back to his left foot which makes him easier to read. Collins needs to be replaced, 9/10 he hoofs it and 9/10 we lose possesion because of it.
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McLeish does not control Bent like a puppet on a string. Bent bottled that sitter and it cost us.
How many chances did Bent have today? We are totally lacking in creativity.
I think Marc Albrighton should be given 10 games to find his form like N'Zogbia has had. He would provide crosses for Bent, N'Zogbia never crosses the ball.
DB appears to be a very, very limited footballer as I feared when we bought him. Scores one, misses three. Long range shooting poor. Can't hold up play. Not prepared to get hurt for the cause. Not particularly quick. Contributes little in defence. , and so on. His only ability, it appears, is to make himself available for 6 yard tap-ins (not to be under-estimated - very few manage it). In other words, he's a 24 Million pound goalhanger.
For all those fearing his departure in January, I have to be honest and say I'd take 18 m for him. Tomorrow.
Plus points today btw........
Herd - did everything asked of him, just what we've needed since NRC left.
N'Zog - His best game for us, had a bit of purpose and drive at last.
Petrovs recently discovered shooting boots.
Negatives :
Heskey : Consistently contributes so little.
Hutton : better than Luke Young? I don't think so.
Inability to control a game while leading. Our mindset seems to change the very second we go in front. Regardless of the opposition. And for that I lay the blame firmly at the door of..........
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Why do posters say Bent missed a sitter? on the replay surely the keeper saved it, he put it to the side of the keeper but as good keepers do he spread himself. Is it just coincidence that Petrov has scored a few screamers this season or has AM instructed him to shoot whenever possible? Collins should have been in front of his man bad marking and lack of concentration at a critical period.
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The way some have been going on about a draw at Sunderland being a good result is as though they are a top side. Before today, they had won one, drawn one and lost two. Their home performances have been very poor this season and that form showed today. Again we failed to beat a side that was there for the taking.
I said before the Albion game that we needed 10 points from the next five matches before the fixtures start to get a lot tougher. We have so far taken one point and, no, I can't see us winning the next three, either. We are fortunate that there are 3 or 4 teams that have been very poor so far. Let's hope they stay that way.
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He's missed easier chances than the one-on-one today Robbo, and seems to fail to score one GOOD opportunity in nearly every game.
And as far as the 'save' today goes, if you compared it to a penalty kick (from a comparable distance out), you'd have to put it down as a poor pen rather than a good save.
In other words, its still a poor miss from a top-rated striker in that position. How many of those did Shearer or Lineker miss?
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Bent was awesome last season and probably kept us up. you don't suddenly become useless and if we did flog him off at a loss in January you can bet he'll start scoring again in a team that creates the sort of chances he thrives on - i.e. passed on the floor.
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Never said he was useless Greg, I pointed out his strength. Which makes him a passenger in our system under McLeish.
And if he does move on, I hope he gets those on-the-deck chances at Everton, QPR or Fulham because nobody better than that will touch him with a bargepole.
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Never said he was useless Greg, I pointed out his strength. Which makes him a passenger in our system under McLeish.
And if he does move on, I hope he gets those on-the-deck chances at Everton, QPR or Fulham because nobody better than that will touch him with a bargepole.
or we could try playing to his strengths and the majority of our youth players and not devaluing our major assets. I see no point in playing a system that suits Ivanhoe and Dunne.
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I'll tell you what, I would rather see us playing some football that suits Bent's abilities than a team without Bent and playing the way we are now.
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I'll tell you what, I would rather see us playing some football that suits Bent's abilities than a team without Bent and playing the way we are now.
Agree!! Currently we are sh*te!
Give N'zobia a kick where he'll appreciate it and the rest will follow.
40 pts here we come?
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Why do posters say Bent missed a sitter? on the replay surely the keeper saved it, he put it to the side of the keeper but as good keepers do he spread himself. Is it just coincidence that Petrov has scored a few screamers this season or has AM instructed him to shoot whenever possible? Collins should have been in front of his man bad marking and lack of concentration at a critical period.
Was thinking that about Stan.
Aside from the goals he has bagged, he was very (very) close with another long range effort v Fulham away and on a few other occasions this season.
He has that in his locker -always has. And maybe McLeish recalls that from his time in Scotland. Is it enough to keep his place in the side long term, the occasional long range wonder goal? I like Stan, but probably not. That's an argument for another thread though.
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Watched the game and thought it was a better performance. Would have settled for a draw beforehand so the big disappointment is that we should have won.
The things that irritate me the most and put us under pressure are the amount of times we give possession away needlessly and the stupid free kicks we seem to concede all the time. Get these sorted and we will vastly improve, as we seem to put ourselves under pressure.
Herd played well today, as did Gabby. N'Zogbia looked better and a good goal from Petrov but a lot of his passing was abysmal.
3 points next week will be the tonic we need.
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I don't recall much abysmal passing from Petrov. Some of Herd's was a little, erm, industrial, but he did provide good cover and played well. Bent's missed quite a few sitters already this season: Sunderland, Newcastle, Wigan come to mind immediately.
I thought N'Zogbia was comfortably his best so far and Hutton looked a threat going fwd and a bit of a liability at the back. Warnock's showing why Mcleish was right to bring him back. Given we've no cash I don't think we'd have found a better alternative.
We do look really badly organised from set pieces though - all a bit scrambled all the time.
What we really need to do is find a way of giving us stability and presence in central midfield, creativity on the ball, and the threat of N'Zogbia, Bent and Gabby. I still maintain that this is probably best done through a genuine 4-3-3, with Petrov, Herd, Delph, Jenas, Ireland and Bannan scrapping it out for the 3 midfield places. That's where we've been weakest, but in theory we should be able to put a decent enough central midfield out if Jenas, or Ireland get in decent form and / or Bannan or Delph develop. But at the moment I don't have much confidence in that part of the pitch
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Thought we did well with the ball / crap in defence. Some positives though, generally. Herd, N'Zog, Warnock and Gabby were particularly good. Hutton is good on the attack, but gets no cover when caught out of position.
Defensively, we have the same problems as we had last season: set-piece management is awful.
We should have won this game.
Clark and Cuellar, anyone?
Clark and Cuellar is what I said, Herd as well mcleish said if we keep failing to defend then players would be dropped its time to start sticking to what he said, how can the smallest player on the field win a header in the 6 yard box Dunne is slow and past it. Should have won
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I think we need to get Clark playing Abit more, he can't be any worse than Dunne or Collins. The last thing we want is him wanting to leave to find games.
We need Bannan back instead of Heskey, as I said before, are we actually in a position to take the moral high ground with Bannan? We are in a relegation battle and need to utilise all our resources.
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Last season we deserved something and got nowt; this season we possibly deserved three points and got one. Then again we did them a few years back after Ashley had been sent off. Such is a nature of football: you don't always get what you deserve in any given game.
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I think we need to get Clark playing Abit more, he can't be any worse than Dunne or Collins. The last thing we want is him wanting to leave to find games.
We need Bannan back instead of Heskey, as I said before, are we actually in a position to take the moral high ground with Bannan? We are in a relegation battle and need to utilise all our resources.
We're 9th at the end of October, it is ridiculous to talk of being "in a relegation battle". By that sort of reckoning Newcastle are title contenders.
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Was thinking that about Stan.
Aside from the goals he has bagged, he was very (very) close with another long range effort v Fulham away and on a few other occasions this season.
He has that in his locker -always has. And maybe McLeish recalls that from his time in Scotland. Is it enough to keep his place in the side long term, the occasional long range wonder goal? I like Stan, but probably not. That's an argument for another thread though.
The old Hitzlsberger argument....
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And as far as the 'save' today goes, if you compared it to a penalty kick (from a comparable distance out), you'd have to put it down as a poor pen rather than a good save.
In other words, its still a poor miss from a top-rated striker in that position. How many of those did Shearer or Lineker miss?
This is rubbish. No way you can compare taking a penalty to the this chance and save. Taking a penalty ball is dead on the spot you can compose yourself with all the time in the world to decide what you want to do. Yesterday Bent expected but was not sure he would get the ball. Did not know what speed or angle the ball was going to delivered. Did not know if a defender or two were going the chop his legs off or the GK will rush out or stick. He had to think about all this and take a best shot. It was angled wide of GK but not wide enough and that was a difference of fraction of second wait to angle himself properly. He didn't do that that is all.
And oh yes I have seen some shocking misses by Shearer, Linekar and even Messi.
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Although we are in 9th, their are a number of teams below us with a game in hand.
We could drop a couple of places dependant on results.
We are only 2 points away from 16th with some tricky fixtures to come.
I only watched the highlights so I can't really comment on individual performances, had Bent scored we could have won.
We desperately need to win against Norwich in order to keep a buffer between us and the bottom
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Reminded me of Fulham last year when MA gave away a needless freekick and we all know what happened. Not sure Clark or Cuellar are going to solve the problem as I think it's more to do with organisation/tactic than personnel. I mean you have Dunne and Collins who are both strong in the air consistently failing to defend set pieces. It makes no sense.
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Oh, and to add - we change mentality when we take the lead. We were dominating the second half and looked like we could score a couple only to take the lead and become nervous wrecks. Happens everytime and I doubt anyone was surprised that Sunderland scored their equaliser.
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After Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool, I'd argue everybody's in a relegation battle.
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Reminded me of Fulham last year when MA gave away a needless freekick and we all know what happened. Not sure Clark or Cuellar are going to solve the problem as I think it's more to do with organisation/tactic than personnel. I mean you have Dunne and Collins who are both strong in the air consistently failing to defend set pieces. It makes no sense.
That Fulham game was crucial I think. MA lost confidence after that and it was just such a hammer blow to give away those points at that stage. Slightly off topic, sorry.
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Would have took a point being 2-1 down obviously, but 2-1 up with 5 mins to go no way!
A team that has lost 8 of the last 9 games, we should have held on for the win.
10 games 12 points, need to start winning 38 points won't be good enough and we've got a hard run of games to come.
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Same old Villa but I'd have probably taken a point before the game.
I'm not sure Clark is the answer to our set piece problems, he played at Man City when we conceded two from corners. I'm afraid Dunne and Collins have turned into the types of players that are solid for much of the game but then tend to commit at least one or two lapses that often lead to goals.
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And as far as the 'save' today goes, if you compared it to a penalty kick (from a comparable distance out), you'd have to put it down as a poor pen rather than a good save.
In other words, its still a poor miss from a top-rated striker in that position. How many of those did Shearer or Lineker miss?
This is rubbish. No way you can compare taking a penalty to the this chance and save. Taking a penalty ball is dead on the spot you can compose yourself with all the time in the world to decide what you want to do. Yesterday Bent expected but was not sure he
would get the ball. Did not know what speed or angle the ball was going to delivered. Did not know if a defender or two were going the chop his legs off or the GK will rush out or stick. He had to think about all this and take a best shot. It was angled wide of GK but not wide enough and that was a difference of fraction of second wait to angle
himself properly. He didn't do that that is all.
And oh yes I have seen some shocking misses by Shearer, Linekar and even Messi.
Of course you can make a comparison in terms of whether the chance missed was a good save or a poor finish. And that was a poor finish by any international strikers standards. And I didn't say Shearer had never fluffed a few - everyone fucks up from time to time - but he'd have buried that one yesterday 99 times out of a hundred. Our Daz is about 50/50 in finding the net from what I can see.
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On yesterday, Sunderland put in probably the second worst display of anyone against us this season, after Blackburn at home. Unlike on that occasion, we weren't able to win. More's the point, we didn't create any particular amount of chances and continued to look vulnerable at the back, giving the ball away too cheaply and giving away cheap free kicks. That is not a good combination.
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The way some have been going on about a draw at Sunderland being a good result is as though they are a top side. Before today, they had won one, drawn one and lost two. Their home performances have been very poor this season and that form showed today. Again we failed to beat a side that was there for the taking.
This is spot on. Being at the match it was obvious that we were in total control in the second half - even stated by the MoD commentator - but could/would not press forward to get the second goal. Contrary to others on here I was again disappointed with N'Zogbia - was caught in possession far too often even when he was put in the clear - and was never on the same wavelength as to what Gabby and Bent were doing/wanted. I was calling for AM to bring Ireland on as we needed someone who could play that one ball in to make the breakthrough (he being the only one on the bench who may have done it). However, there was no change and it seemed we were content to let the match drift along for 1 - 1 when we got the second from a set piece. Surely then I thought AM would stiffen things up knowing full well that they would chuck everything at us and Clark for N'Zogbia for the last five minutes seemed the sensible thing. But what did we do - take N'Zogbia off and bring Albrighton on. What was the logic in that? If he was thinking we can catch them on the break we already had Gabby and Bent on the field, the one thing we needed was to stop them getting at us.
This definitely was 2 points literally thrown away - I could not believe how poor Sunderland were and this was after being fully prepared for a disapponting afternoon. As has been said they have now accumulated 5 points at home this season!! and were there for the taking yesterday but poor tactics and poor play in the last 5 minutes meant we threw it away.
It is all very well people saying we will not be in a relegation battle but even without that, each place up the league is worth half a million pounds at the end of the season, so by keeping on throwing points away we are in danger of losing precious money which we are told is in very short supply at VP.
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After Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool, I'd argue everybody's in a relegation battle.
In October nobody is.
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The way some have been going on about a draw at Sunderland being a good result is as though they are a top side. Before today, they had won one, drawn one and lost two. Their home performances have been very poor this season and that form showed today. Again we failed to beat a side that was there for the taking.
This is spot on. Being at the match it was obvious that we were in total control in the second half - even stated by the MoD commentator -
So we can be in total control of a PL match. This is a big positive so can we all agree on that and move forward?
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Of course you can make a comparison in terms of whether the chance missed was a good save or a poor finish. And that was a poor finish by any international strikers standards. And I didn't say Shearer had never fluffed a few - everyone fucks up from time to time - but he'd have buried that one yesterday 99 times out of a hundred. Our Daz is about 50/50 in finding the net from what I can see.
OK give me some stats. Darren has played for Charlton, Spurs, Sunderland and us in the same era as Drogba and Rooney have played for Chelsea and Manure. In this period Chelsea and Manu have dominated oppositions so it is natural that these two will score heavily and the teams Darren has played have been average at best. So how does he compare with them?
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Surely then I thought AM would stiffen things up knowing full well that they would chuck everything at us and Clark for N'Zogbia for the last five minutes seemed the sensible thing. But what did we do - take N'Zogbia off and bring Albrighton on. What was the logic in that? If he was thinking we can catch them on the break we already had Gabby and Bent on the field, the one thing we needed was to stop them getting at us.
This definitely was 2 points literally thrown away - I could not believe how poor Sunderland were and this was after being fully prepared for a disapponting afternoon. As has been said they have now accumulated 5 points at home this season!! and were there for the taking yesterday but poor tactics and poor play in the last 5 minutes meant we threw it away.
Agreed. Interestingly, the one player our fans were shouting for in the 2nd half was Albrighton. I don't know what they thought he'd bring to the game. He's been very disappointing going forward this season, and he certainly can't defend, giving away free kicks in dangerous positions, including one yesterday.
On a separate issue, I was very impressed by the Sunderland travelling support. There were a few dozen on the train all the way back to London last night. That's a long way to travel for a team that has only won a couple of games at home in 2011.
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Emile Heskey. Why?
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I was encouraged by yesterday, although Sunderland were there for the taking, they were bloody woeful. We controlled most of it, Petrov was very good, Herd had an half decent game, N'Zogbia looked a bit better although he still lacks confidence at times. Hopefully he's starting to turn the corner.
As for Warnock, he really is poor. We need a left back who dose'nt just lump the ball upfield to no-one, which he did on seveal occasions yesterday.
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As for Warnock, he really is poor. We need a left back who dose'nt just lump the ball upfield to no-one, which he did on seveal occasions yesterday.
He certainly isn't on his own there,.
Collins and Dunne ( who should have been a rugby player) do it all the time.
What happens at Bodymoor or are they just not capable ?
With these 3 at the back as well as Hutton, a VERY creative, midfield is required.
Then they would be able to pass to a midfielder and watch him pass properly and onto another one who can do something with the ball etc.
Given is a better passer than Collins and Dunne !
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Of course you can make a comparison in terms of whether the chance missed was a good save or a poor finish. And that was a poor finish by any international strikers standards. And I didn't say Shearer had never fluffed a few - everyone fucks up from time to time - but he'd have buried that one yesterday 99 times out of a hundred. Our Daz is about 50/50 in finding the net from what I can see.
OK give me some stats. Darren has played for Charlton, Spurs, Sunderland and us in the same era as Drogba and Rooney have played for Chelsea and Manure. In this period Chelsea and Manu have dominated oppositions so it is natural that these two will score heavily and the teams Darren has played have been average at best. So how does he compare with them?
That doesn't take into account the fact that Drogba and Rooney are very good players in the build-up and help their teams dominate play, whereas Darren can be anonymous for a very long time during games.
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Oh, and to add - we change mentality when we take the lead. We were dominating the second half and looked like we could score a couple only to take the lead and become nervous wrecks. Happens everytime and I doubt anyone was surprised that Sunderland scored their equaliser.
Total panic alright. Warnock gifted them a freekick in a dangerous position only moments after we went ahead. A real gutless challenge and then a brainfart from Dunne a few mins later and they scored from the resultant set piece. Gabby too yesterday gave away some stupid freekicks and doesn't look happy playing wide to me.
Would be a brave call but I think Bent should be dropped for next game and Gabby put up top by himself. Go 433. Bent isn't at it this season regardless of how we are playing. He just isn't sharp right now and it's a bit unfair on Gabby being moved around to accommodate him.
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Of course you can make a comparison in terms of whether the chance missed was a good save or a poor finish. And that was a poor finish by any international strikers standards. And I didn't say Shearer had never fluffed a few - everyone fucks up from time to time - but he'd have buried that one yesterday 99 times out of a hundred. Our Daz is about 50/50 in finding the net from what I can see.
OK give me some stats. Darren has played for Charlton, Spurs, Sunderland and us in the same era as Drogba and Rooney have played for Chelsea and Manure. In this period Chelsea and Manu have dominated oppositions so it is natural that these two will score heavily and the teams Darren has played have been average at best. So how does he compare with them?
Stats are at http://www.premierleague.com if you want to sift through them. Rooney and Bent have a very similar shots on target ratio but as I suggested earlier Darren rarely shoots from further than 12 yards out whereas Rooney will take free kicks etc so its not a fair comparison. Are you really trying to suggest Rooney only looks good because he plays in a top side? Really?
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It's impossible to know for sure, but it's not improbable that the main reason for Bent's lack of goals this season is that Young and Downing are gone, and that, at best, he is yet to develop the same kind of understanding with their replacements N'Zogbia and Heskey.
More likely, N'Zogbia and Heskey represent a serious downgrade from Young and Downing.
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It's impossible to know for sure, but it's not improbable that the main reason for Bent's lack of goals this season is that Young and Downing are gone, and that, at best, he is yet to develop the same kind of understanding with their replacements N'Zogbia and Heskey.
More likely, N'Zogbia and Heskey represent a serious downgrade from Young and Downing.
The whole side have had to find a different way of playing with the loss of those two. Most of us assumed that Albrighton would replace one of them but he's played himself out of contention. N'Zogbia started to look a player yesterday. Let us hope that's the sign of things to come.
The whole creative thrust of our side was ripped out in one go and it is little surprise that it's taking a while to gel. He's been scratching around for the right balance and has tried several different combinations but none have, as yet, been 100% successful. He's also been unlucky in that Jenas has been injured since he signed. There's no guarantee that he'll solve the problem but we should at least wait until he's played a few games before deciding that he won't.
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AM reckons 'there's more to come' from this set of players, which implies to me same selection & tactics - oh dear no !!
Another comment from the manager suggested he was 'baffled' by the decision of the referee not to award free kick in favour of
N'Zogbia in lead up to the first equaliser ...............a word that perfectly sums up my thoughts on the selection of Ivanhoe in midfield - oh I forgot he is 'our Beckenbauer'
Would have taken a point before the match but to throw two away by such inept defending of a set piece yet again beggars the question what do the team do at Bodymoor Heath all week ?
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Are you really trying to suggest Rooney only looks good because he plays in a top side? Really?
No I am not. Rooney is world class footballer where as Darren is a goal scorer and as such he is as prolific as Drogba and Rooney. You must remember despite Dogba and Rooney's other attributes their prime job is still to score goals. I am therefore contesting your assertion that as a goal scorer he is much worse that Linekar and Shearer which he is not. Having said that I am not a Bent admirer never have been but he is the best scorer we have had for a long time now. For Bent to score he needs his team to dominate and create chances. Without that he is no more of use than a lamp post on the pitch.
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I think we need to let N'Zogbia take some free kicks around the edge of the box. He has a good record with these and scoring would boost his confidence and hopefully improve his overall game.
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the main reason for Bent's lack of goals this season is that Young and Downing are gone, and that, at best, he is yet to develop the same kind of understanding with their replacements N'Zogbia and Heskey.
Its more simplistic than that I'm afraid. The main reason why he isnt scoring many goals is simply because we arent creating as many chances regardless of the names on the timesheet. You cant score goals if you're not creating goal scoring opportunies.
Bent had great chances and should have scored against both Baggies and Sunderland (I'd quite easily have tucked them away myself!), but without knowing his stats, I would say he's probably a 1 in 3 striker (3 chances to score 1 goal). If he's only getting one decent chance per game then he's more likely to miss than score.
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Emile Heskey. Why?
This.
Get rid asap along with Beye and Ireland if we're not going to give him a run, which seems unlikely.
Then spend the dosh on somebody half decent in Centre Midfield.
Any suggestions who that somebody could be?
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So where are we going with this format?
We win the very occasional game - we draw most games - we lose the occasional game.
Conclusion - likely to be around the bottom 5 come March.
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This is now reality.
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The same frailties that affected us last season are coming to the fore again.I would be less worried if I thought that our team had more fight than those that are allready down the bottom of the league. We are in the mx with 10 other teams that will strugle this season. Our results against WBA wolves Swansea Wigan Bolton Sunderland QPR BBurn Norwich Fulham will define our season i think that is 13 games and we probably need to win 8 of them only 6 are at home, its not looking great
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The defending for the second Sunderland goal was poor but from the highlights I saw we seemed to play ok! We can't allow the defence to keep letting us down however.
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The whole thing is frustrating really. We need a top midfielder - no money. We need a good few defenders - no money. Welcome to the world of a Wigan fan.....
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I don't rate McLeish, and I wish we hadn't have appointed him - but I think he's doing a decent job (even if we're dull and the football is awful) in terms of results.
We really should have 2 away wins now - we don't, but we're talking silly goals right at the death. Once the team begins to gel more we should be OK and we'd be on 14 points from 10 games and a pretty decent start overall.
I don't want him here, but I reckon we've a pretty decent chance of finishing 7th or 8th this season.
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I don't rate McLeish, and I wish we hadn't have appointed him - but I think he's doing a decent job (even if we're dull and the football is awful) in terms of results.
We really should have 2 away wins now - we don't, but we're talking silly goals right at the death. Once the team begins to gel more we should be OK and we'd be on 14 points from 10 games and a pretty decent start overall.
I don't want him here, but I reckon we've a pretty decent chance of finishing 7th or 8th this season.
Pretty much as I see it.
I think we've seen enough to be relatively optomistic of a top half finish somewhere. If we can sort out the silly defensive errors, mainly from set pieces, I think we'll see more from N'Zogbia, Albrighton and Jenas between now and May to be able to finish 'best or the rest'. The top six are definately better than us, but I'm not convinced anyone else is!
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I'm not quite as confident as that - I've seen enough to know we won't go down but we've largely toiled away against some pretty average teams so far. We've beaten the two worst teams in the league.
To finish 7th/8th we need to be beating other top half contenders. We haven't done that yet. The right blend in midfield is still beyond us; if we can get that right, we'll be halfway to finding a team that can finish in the top half. I'd still like McLeish to bring Clark in alongside Dunne and give that partnership six months together.
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The thing that worries me is that from shortly after the start of the second half we were totally in control of the match without really looking dangerous. Nothing was done tactically by use of the subs to try and turn this superiority into goals. It appeared as if AM was happy to leave it, hope we snatched one and if we didn't, well we've got a draw anyway.
Then, having nicked a goal from a dead ball with only 5 minutes to go, he did make a substitution - he took N'Zogbia off and brought Albrighton on. I just can't fathom that one out at all - surely we needed to bottle up midfield and close the game out at that point.
I have not slagged AM off before and am prepared to give him a chance but I think he got it wrong big style on saturday and it cost us 2 points.
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We desperately need to do something in january. Our midfield is awful. Until we get that right, particularly that central spine, we won't do much. It's also clear that as a front two, we can't play Bent and Agbonlahor, so either he plays Gabby wide, or drops one of them, which is difficult being as they're our two dangermen.
I'd like to see us signing two decent central midfielders. A couple of players who can last 90 minutes, tackle and hopefully play a bit too. Obviously with no money, that'll be difficult. I really don't see much light at the end of the tunnel.
I'd also like to see us sell a couple of centre-backs and buy someone reliable and solid to partner Dunne. So I'd see if we can shift Carlos and Collins.
A couple of fullbacks wouldn't go amiss either.
And whilst I'm going for unrealistic wishes, I wouldn't mind having a 12 inch dinger and a winning lottery ticket. Frankly I see these last two wishes being the more realistic.
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The thing that worries me is that from shortly after the start of the second half we were totally in control of the match without really looking dangerous. Nothing was done tactically by use of the subs to try and turn this superiority into goals. It appeared as if AM was happy to leave it, hope we snatched one and if we didn't, well we've got a draw anyway.
Then, having nicked a goal from a dead ball with only 5 minutes to go, he did make a substitution - he took N'Zogbia off and brought Albrighton on. I just can't fathom that one out at all - surely we needed to bottle up midfield and close the game out at that point.
I have not slagged AM off before and am prepared to give him a chance but I think he got it wrong big style on saturday and it cost us 2 points.
I can only assume he wanted someone to hold the ball up, as we are the hot potato team of the PL. Anyone who keeps the ball longer than 1.5 seconds seems to worry about getting a burnt foot.