Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Fergal on October 23, 2011, 12:43:47 PM
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I don't remember feeling this way about our club before.
We seem to have an absent owner who is not in control.
We have sold our best players.
A squad that's as paper thin as any Dolly would have claimed ownership of.
A manager who is clearly not up to the job.
Or am I just over reacting to things?
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No your not. I feel exactly the same. That is all
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It's shit and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
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There's definitely a bit of a cloud over the Villa at present.
To answer you points:
Lerner's continued absence is concerning. He must feel like he's on a bit of hiding to nothing though considering the way things panned out for us after ManCity stole our thunder but he should at least be attending a game or two. The fact he is now invisible adds to the overall malaise. Maybe he's got personal stuff happening - he wouldn't be the type to publicise the fact. He still has enough good will in the bank for me to believe he has our best interests at heart, but that will change if things don't pick up.
We have sold our best players and it's galling to see the line ups of the super-duper-grand-slam-sunday teams. Barry, Milner & Young all starting today apparently. We need to bring teh youth through now.
The squad is much better than OLeary's. It's just our level of expectation and the standard of the league as a whole has been raised since then. We still have some very good senior players (Bent, Gabby, Dunne, Given) but they are labouring alongside some pretty average ones (Hutton, Warnock, Petrov, Collins).
I think AM is a good manager. He won't be given the time he needs though and a few more defeats will no doubt see him become a nice scapegoat for the new reality.
I think most Villa fans I know are in a kind of zoned-out only-here-out-of-habit mood. Me included. If I could use one word it'd be 'uninspiring' and I suspect a lot fans of most clubs feel the same way.
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I'm feeling pretty despondent at the moment. I can understand the approach which the owner has taken although I don't like it but overall I believe he has been and will be beneficial for the club. He's always been ultra low profile so I don't understand this talk about him being absent.
It's the quality of the footbal that is really making me angry. Yesterday's perfromance was as poor as any I've seen in recent years and while I didn't expect the new manager to bring an exciting brand of football, I did at least expect him to demand the basics from the players - i.e. pass the ball to one of your team mates.
MON was not really interested in playing decent footbal and towards the end of his term performances were abysmal. Last season saw no improvement however we had Young and Downing to add a bit of quality to things. We don't even have that this season and it seems that we are incapable of doing the most basic of things. If we were to compare the two squads from yesterday's game, I would not have swapped any of their players for any of ours but we made them look like Barcelona. They moved into space and passed the ball to each other and could well have given us a real hammering. We, by contrast, failed to keep the ball and resorted to pointless hoofs up the pitch.
While I can understand the commercial position which the club is in, I can't accept that the team cannot do the basics and that's whats really pissing me off about things.
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Its got the feeling of 86 I'm afraid,can't see where the next win is coming from.
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It's been worse than this before, it'll be worse than this again. It'll also be better. That's football.
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It's the futility, the lack of identity. As Rigadon said, it's the fact that we're just here out of habit now. The football is bad, but it's bad in a kind of supernaturally pointless way. We don't pass the ball, but we're not even direct in a mad way that can be fun if you're just after incident, we're just long-ball-to-the-opposition-then-defend. We could probably stand bad, negative, over-pragmatic football if it were getting us somewhere, with a sense of purpose, as it was sometimes under MON, but there's a listlessness about us at the moment. We're going nowhere slowly and boringly.
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You're not overreacting at all.
If you take a closer look at the game and not just the result we were awful. 0 shots on target at home against a derby match should have any manager pack their bags. And don't say Herd changed the game. Any decent manager would still get the team to perform decent, not like that embarassing collpase yesterday. West Brom managed to score another goal last season when they were down to 10 men. There's also the fact Hutton should have been sent off instead of Herd, so it kind of evens out.
I despise McLeish. Not only is he really shit, but even if he takes us down he won't give a damn. Just more money in the bank for him. He is the second worst manager in the league after Kean. Piss poor excuse of a manager.
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I fully understand why Randy has to get the club on a better financial footing. I understand why we had to sell and look to rebuild. I understand why we need to hold back, at least until some of the players on crazy money when their value to the team is either zero (Beye) or questionable (Heskey).
I do not understand why, when you are about to go through these hard transitional times, you would alter the communication from sometimes clumsy (GK) and sitting in the away end with your fancy scarf (Randy) to GK going missing without a word of warning to the empty seat that I would like to see Randy in, at least sometimes.
I do not understand who thought a letter that had nothing to do with football on the pitch was suppose to give us hope. And most of all I do not understand why they would pick a manager who vitually no one wanted. That manager is a nice bloke and talks well about the game but is known for ultimately failing and playing dull football as he does it. I find it hard to take that Brighton and Birmingham have Managers I would have in a heart beat over the one we have. And it has absolutely nothing to do with him coming from across the City.
I hope we are in the same division next season. With that level of ambition from myself, yep, I feel times are bad.
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I can also see us looking for a new manager before the end of the season.
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It's not an over-reaction, thats just the black and white of where we are right now. It's completely depressing.
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Right now there's a feeling of emptiness. The club have contributed to it. We as fans have contributed to it. There just isn't that feeling of togetherness, and it's almost every man for himself in trying to get out of it. People are pointing fingers and even from afar, watching the games on TV there just seems a constant air of scepticism and cyncism. I think as much as the club have made a number of errors, we as fans can help matters, if only on match day when we should all be united and getting behind the team, more so than any one player or the manager. I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
As Dave said, it's been far worse, and far better, and it will be better again. It just might have to get worse though first which is the really worrying thing, but are strong enough as a combined unit (club and fans) to get break out of this.
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I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause.
I think one reason why Newcastle seem to be doing fine at the moment is that the club allowed the manager to get rid of the deadbeats and troublemakers.
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Villa's been a massive part of my life for 42 years and yet I do not feel much passion for them right now, for all the reasons articulated in three-four key posts here recently.
This season I'm not a ST holder for the first time for several years, and I don't miss it. I feel like a love-cheat for saying it but there you go.
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It's been worse than this before, it'll be worse than this again. It'll also be better. That's football.
I know that Dave, but this feels a lot like hope has left the building. I have been going down the Villa since the 60's and for whatever reason this is the time I feel worst about.
Perhaps it's the disappointment of the failure of 'Proud History and Bright Future' thingy that we all bought into.
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I still can't believe we have the worst manager in the Premier League. How anyone has any faith in ability is beyond me.
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For me, once we get a new central midfield, and find a proper place for BB then i am quite optimistic.
Theres a lot of deadwood at VP atm, that are going to be there another 6/12 months.I'm holding judgement on McL atm , and if Petrov/Heskey/beye etc are still here in 12 months then i will be disappointed, but i think attacking options of Bent/Gabby/N'zog/Ireland and Bannan is good, midfield options of Herd/Jenas/Gardener/Delph, needs adding to, and Clark is going to be a good player.And we have the best goalie in the last 15 years.
A bit of investment, we could have a good attacking football team.
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For me, once we get a new central midfield, and find a proper place for BB then i am quite optimistic.
Theres a lot of deadwood at VP atm, that are going to be there another 6/12 months.I'm holding judgement on McL atm , and if Petrov/Heskey/beye etc are still here in 12 months then i will be disappointed, but i think attacking options of Bent/Gabby/N'zog/Ireland and Bannan is good, midfield options of Herd/Jenas/Gardener/Delph, needs adding to, and Clark is going to be a good player.And we have the best goalie in the last 15 years.
A bit of investment, we could have a good attacking football team.
Not with this manager
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Right now there's a feeling of emptiness. The club have contributed to it. We as fans have contributed to it. There just isn't that feeling of togetherness, and it's almost every man for himself in trying to get out of it. People are pointing fingers and even from afar, watching the games on TV there just seems a constant air of scepticism and cyncism. I think as much as the club have made a number of errors, we as fans can help matters, if only on match day when we should all be united and getting behind the team, more so than any one player or the manager. I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
As Dave said, it's been far worse, and far better, and it will be better again. It just might have to get worse though first which is the really worrying thing, but are strong enough as a combined unit (club and fans) to get break out of this.
The thing that really worries me tho TV is the really poor quality football we seem to produce week in, week out. We keep being told what a great squad we have but i rarely see more than 3/4 passes being put together. Our players rarely see to "give and go", create openings for each other or try to keep possession. The number of balls simply lumped upfield to 2 strikers who are not that good in the air is a complete waste of possession and gives the oppo the ball, confidence and the chance to come back at us. The number of times we lose possession/give silly free kicks away/seem to want to defend from our own last 30m (as we did yesterday as soon as Herd went off - no sign of any "fight" or attempt to reshape and make the oppo work for it!) beggars belief. If my under 14s did it I'd give them a bollocking. These guys are very well paid pros who seem to think that jogging about a bit and tapping the ball now and again is ok and if we/they score it's just some kind of a coincidence. "It'll all soon be over and I can go home in my nice big car to my nice big house and carry on being a bit famous"
Newcastle have got out of their funk by playing some decent stuff and working hard.
Wolves, Baggies and Bolton are all "lesser" teams, and all outperformed us on the pitch.
From what I saw yesterday Swansea and Norwich are going to have field days against us.
What concerns me is on the pitch and the apparent "tactics" of the manager who I am/was prepared to give every chance to. It seems to be getting worse, not better.
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It feels worse than it is. The problem is not that it is bad but rather it is completely uninspiring. There was a good point in one of the articles in yesterday's zine about how as a fanbase we are quite insecure and we generally need something (even if it is illusionary like proud history; bright future) to inspire us. I've said this before but every time in the past few months where I have found a shaft of light the club have done something that has made it disappear. When Houllier went I expected we would appoint an interesting and excellent manager. Instead we got McLeish who whilst not the oaf some portray was a massively disappointing, underwhelming and dividing appointment and a man who was guaranteed to get absolutely no honeymoon period. When we appointed McLeish I consoled myself with the fact that he would surely be backed. Instead we sold half the first team and barely replaced them.
Selecting a few key words from posts on this thread 'malaise', 'futility' and 'emptiness' feature. They all sum it up. We have lost direction and we have become content to float around the league.
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(http://wallpaper4me.com/resize_wallpaper.php?id=4823)
I am a ST holder, have only not had a ST for 1 and a half seasons (Gregory days) in 23 years (shit that long....) and even the half a season I still went to almost all of the games.
I realised at the game yesterday that I just do not care anymore.....Its not that I don't care about Villa I just don't care about football.
We lost against local rivals, but what does it really matter?
That we will finish 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th maybe 7th or 6th
What does it matter ?
There's no romance left, we chuck the league cup, we don't really try in the FA cup we get into Europe only to throw the game and they want to get rid of relegation and promotion as we know it.
We don't stand any chance of competing with the top 4 or 5 cant compete to sign players, we lose any players that show a modicum of promise to bigger teams, we signed a manager who's track record is two relegations in 3 years and there's very little atmosphere at the games any more.
And they wonder why people are losing interest in football.
I walked away yesterday thinking of all the other more enjoyable ways I could spend my £450 next season....it will be some miraculous marketing effort to make me spend it with Villa next year.
Empty seats my lord....two more in the lower holte i think next season.
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The slide is gathering a pace. Apathy will see us bobbing around the Championship. AM has to ensure Petrov and Heskey never wear the shirt again. These two players have held us back for the last 2 years. He will of course keep playing them because he is a piss poor manager.
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Once you accept the fact that we were shit last season, even worse this season and that we're likely to lose even against the worse Premier League opposition, then every point we get is a bonus. It shouldnt be like this but once you accept it, then the pain of defeat is more acceptable.
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(http://wallpaper4me.com/resize_wallpaper.php?id=4823)
I am a ST holder, have only not had a ST for 1 and a half seasons (Gregory days) in 23 years (shit that long....) and even the half a season I still went to almost all of the games.
I realised at the game yesterday that I just do not care anymore.....Its not that I don't care about Villa I just don't care about football.
We lost against local rivals, but what does it really matter?
That we will finish 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th maybe 7th or 6th
What does it matter ?
There's no romance left, we chuck the league cup, we don't really try in the FA cup we get into Europe only to throw the game and they want to get rid of relegation and promotion as we know it.
We don't stand any chance of competing with the top 4 or 5 cant compete to sign players, we lose any players that show a modicum of promise to bigger teams, we signed a manager who's track record is two relegations in 3 years and there's very little atmosphere at the games any more.
And they wonder why people are losing interest in football.
I walked away yesterday thinking of all the other more enjoyable ways I could spend my £450 next season....it will be some miraculous marketing effort to make me spend it with Villa next year.
Empty seats my lord....two more in the lower holte i think next season.
Spot on ... that could well have been me writing that.
Things were put into perspective driving to and from the game yesterday - we saw 3 bad smashes on the M6 and I got to thinking why am I spending my hard earned cash on watching that lot and even putting my life at risk on the 220 mile round trip.
Before the game VCTM jnr and I were looking at the cars parked in the players car park - realistically speaking some of them were probably were worth just a weeks` salary to the players - the equivalent for me would be like buying a Porsche for £500 ! Its totally mad - I remember I stopped going to football back in the day when Keegan first signed as a player for Newcastle on £2k per week. I eventually came back as I missed the atmosphere etc.
This time its different - The money is obscene, the hype overbearing, the football poor, the atmosphere at the games (Villa at home certainly) gone and the prices for drinks/food fecking ridiculous - £3.50 for a can of John Smiths and £4.00 for a burger is a rip off in any one`s book.
I have missed two home games already and am not coming down for the Norwich game - likewise I walked out of the Everton and Baggies games as I just am not enjoying it.
I get the feeling I am one of a growing band of fans who are sick and tired of the modern game and all it has become. Once out of the habit of going to the match it becomes tougher to return.
Its rare for me to agree with Dave but yes he is right - there have been far worse times and things may still get worse - however I doubt I will live to see the return of how things were in 1981-2 when my team literally rose from the ashes to become European Champions just 11 years after becong third division champions.
Finally, I am like many others who believed the hype surrounding - "Proud History, Bright Future" .. should have realised that our friends across the pond are partial to spouting bull shine !
Incidentally the Philips Group based in Eindhoven have the same tagline - I wonder who used it first?
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The club lacks leadership, ambition and direction at the moment. Randy Lerner as custodian of the club needs to come out and talk to the fans. He needs to come out and lead. His silence is really letting us down at the moment, in my view.
We're not back in the dark days of Ellis yet but Randy sure as hell isn't doing himself any favours with the way has handled the club these past fifteen or so months. There seems to be no forward planning or joined up thinking going on anywhere at Villa Park.
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Once you accept the fact that we were shit last season, even worse this season and that we're likely to lose even against the worse Premier League opposition, then every point we get is a bonus. It shouldnt be like this but once you accept it, then the pain of defeat is more acceptable.
Thing is, how were we ever going to be less shit than last season, with two of our best players gone, more released and not replaced, and no money to spend?
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I had some post through the door yesterday from the club inviting me to buy a half season ticket. I took the time to read it but it ended up in the bin without a serious thought or consideration of buying. Bad times.
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Once you accept the fact that we were shit last season, even worse this season and that we're likely to lose even against the worse Premier League opposition, then every point we get is a bonus. It shouldnt be like this but once you accept it, then the pain of defeat is more acceptable.
Thing is, how were we ever going to be less shit than last season, with two of our best players gone, more released and not replaced, and no money to spend?
Exactly. It was inevitable. I accepted it before the start of the season so I've had time to adjust.
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It's shit and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
I think so too. We look like we are heading for the drop. Yesterday was a big wake up call. There is little leadership at villa right now, from anywhere.
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I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
They got relegated first, TV. Blimey.
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I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
They got relegated first, TV. Blimey.
Calm down. Their recovery has nothing to do their relegation which was 2 seasons ago, and wasn't the point I was making. Heading into this season, they had lost most of their best players and reinvested very little by comparison. They have a manager that was a very controversial choice and a board that most of their fans despise. They started the season in much the same position as we did, and yet they have come of out of the blocks on fire by comparison.
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It's been worse than this before, it'll be worse than this again. It'll also be better. That's football.
This.
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I think we got a lot of the same sort of posts last season but we eventually turned things around and I still think there's hope for this one. Defeats like yesterday put everyone down in the dumps and makes us question everything but while we haven't got much depth I don't think we're as ad as some posts suggest.
Despite the last couple of weeks I think we're pretty decent defensively.
Bent and Gabby are good strikers.
Our continuing problem is getting the right midfield balance. Herd was looking fine yesterday until Dowd decided he wanted to be centre of attention but the truth is he's probably third choice at best while our first, Jenas, has yet to kick a ball. Our big signing has yet to fire and given the boots he's had to fill that's been a major problem. When he does then things might look different.
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It's been worse than this before, it'll be worse than this again. It'll also be better. That's football.
This.
Absolutely.
There are some short memories on this site. I'm not the oldest fan by a long shot but I can remember at least 5 seasons since 1990 where I thought we were in real danger of being relegated, last season being one of them.
I don't think we'll go down this year, if only because I'm convinced there are more than 3 teams worse than us.
Yes the football will be dull this year but it wasn't that long ago DOL was in charge.
I suppose the main thing that's missing now is the hope we've had over the past few years but then that's the way football has gone for 90% of fans out there.
I don't think things at the Villa are as bad as you feel they are, but things are probably as bad (if not worse) in football as you feel they are.
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I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
They got relegated first, TV. Blimey.
Calm down. Their recovery has nothing to do their relegation which was 2 seasons ago, and wasn't the point I was making. Heading into this season, they had lost most of their best players and reinvested very little by comparison. They have a manager that was a very controversial choice and a board that most of their fans despise. They started the season in much the same position as we did, and yet they have come of out of the blocks on fire by comparison.
I'm as calm as a really calm thing. I just don't think you can compare the two situations. Newcastle could only get better, whilst we've gone backwards at a very alarming rate.
I think that's the thing that worries me really, the complete retrenchment in spending is something which I can understand, even if it means you stop competing, but the lack of ambition from the top down is criminal. No ambition shown at the top where we find people with no prior experience in football matters making the wrong decision time and again. Their inability to appoint the correct manager has gone a long way in seeing us where we are, and has lead to supporter apathy.
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I don't think things at the Villa are as bad as you feel they are, but things are probably as bad (if not worse) in football as you feel they are.
I think you're right, but the early promise of the Lerner era, with all the great games and times we had, feels like it has been snatched away.
We knew we couldn't compete with Doug in control and our new era now has the same feel about it - we can't compete. Our chance has gone and people are looking at the situation thinking that if things didn't change after Randy took over, then they never bloody will.
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Bent and Gabby are good strikers.
Gabby is totally wasted on the wing - at least three times yesterday he had the opportunity to turn into the box whilst being faced with 2 or 3 defenders - each time he went down the channel and was easily closed.
Bent really must do better with his limited opportunities.
As for the defence - do you really think it is ok to concede so easily from set pieces?
Given seems to have just one weakness - commanding his box on crosses .
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For me, once we get a new central midfield, and find a proper place for BB then i am quite optimistic.
Theres a lot of deadwood at VP atm, that are going to be there another 6/12 months.I'm holding judgement on McL atm , and if Petrov/Heskey/beye etc are still here in 12 months then i will be disappointed, but i think attacking options of Bent/Gabby/N'zog/Ireland and Bannan is good, midfield options of Herd/Jenas/Gardener/Delph, needs adding to, and Clark is going to be a good player.And we have the best goalie in the last 15 years.
A bit of investment, we could have a good attacking football team.
The problems seem to stem from the weakness through the central midfield - problems that were evident even when MON was with us. For example, a team that has goot its collective shit together have Tiote and Cabaye in the middle and the barcodes are doing well. We just do not have the combination of solidity and guile that they represent.
The solution? - I don't think Ireland and Heskey are the answers, so we have to look at the rookies to step up and make things happen. This may mean a central three from Bannan, Herd, Clark, Johnson, Delph and Gardner - why not try them? Nothing else has worked thus far!
And then in January, we may have to go out and buy some experience to blend in with Jenas (if he's fit by that time).
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I'm afraid they are!!!
The most worrying part of yesterday was the heads down, drooping shoulders look from most of our players at the start of the 2nd half as if the game was already lost!!!!
We had 1 shot on target and that was Bents penalty but that shouldn't be a major surprise because so far this season we have barely managed more than 3 or 4 in any game, including the 2 we have won.
There seems to be a total lack of passion from players and the majority of our fans too and the sending off for me just papered over the cracks and detracted from what was a totally dismal performance. We had 10 men against the self titled West Bromwich Barcelona, not the real Barca !!!!! You see teams with 10 men get results every week, but the fact that we couldn't do the basics and seemed resigned to defeat with the scores level and half the game left was embarrasing.
I've heard some fans questioning Lerner and even laying the blame at his door, but with the players we have we should be capable of better performances than what we have had so far this season. The buck as always stops with the manager and I suppose as Lerner gave him the job he has to take a certain responsibility.
The current squad with a half decent manager would finish mid table comfortably, but yesterday had bottom six or even worse stamped all over it!!!
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At this point in time, with our lack of options in midfield, replacing Makoun with an injured Spurs reserve doesn't look like a masterstroke.
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At this point in time, with our lack of options in midfield, replacing Makoun with an injured Spurs reserve doesn't look like a masterstroke.
And replacing a reliable full back with an injured Spurs res . . . oh, there's a pattern forming here.
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At this point in time, with our lack of options in midfield, replacing Makoun with an injured Spurs reserve doesn't look like a masterstroke.
and buying a terrible RB off Spurs too , when we have already got players who could have done the job .
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They are but they shouldnt be. I can accept us not spending any money due to the financial situation but we stil have a good squad. I like mcleish as a bloke but he aint got a clue. The football is so dire we play so deep and just hoof it up to bent and lose possesion. If he played players in the right position we cud easily finish 7th with the squad we have. A lot of teams outside the top 4 would love to have bent nzogbia in there team. Im sick of seeing fuckin petrov and heskey in the team lets see albrighton on the right nzobgia on the left play with width and bent will score for fun. the depressing thing is were stuck with mcleish as i cant see lerner paying him off. What an idiot lerner is, the 1 manager every villa fan we didnt want and hes given the job. FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK SAKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Get the youngsters in fuck off petrov and heskey and hutton. Usually i have been to villa twice at this point of the season but i havent been once. Not because of the money but because we play shit football. Heres my team
GIVEN
CUELLAR DUNNE COLLIN CLARK
BANNNAN
G GARDNER DELPH
ALBRIGHTON NZOGBIA
BENT
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Bent and Gabby are good strikers.
Gabby is totally wasted on the wing - at least three times yesterday he had the opportunity to turn into the box whilst being faced with 2 or 3 defenders - each time he went down the channel and was easily closed.
Bent really must do better with his limited opportunities.
As for the defence - do you really think it is ok to concede so easily from set pieces?
Given seems to have just one weakness - commanding his box on crosses .
Gabby's scored 4 goals, so hardly "totally wasted".
Until last week I don't think we'd conceded from a set piece all season, so again I don't think it's a fair criticism. I'm not saying it's perfect but in general we've been strong at the back.
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I'm afraid they are!!!
The most worrying part of yesterday was the heads down, drooping shoulders look from most of our players at the start of the 2nd half as if the game was already lost!!!!
We had 1 shot on target and that was Bents penalty but that shouldn't be a major surprise because so far this season we have barely managed more than 3 or 4 in any game, including the 2 we have won.
There seems to be a total lack of passion from players and the majority of our fans too and the sending off for me just papered over the cracks and detracted from what was a totally dismal performance. We had 10 men against the self titled West Bromwich Barcelona, not the real Barca !!!!! You see teams with 10 men get results every week, but the fact that we couldn't do the basics and seemed resigned to defeat with the scores level and half the game left was embarrasing.
I've heard some fans questioning Lerner and even laying the blame at his door, but with the players we have we should be capable of better performances than what we have had so far this season. The buck as always stops with the manager and I suppose as Lerner gave him the job he has to take a certain responsibility.
The current squad with a half decent manager would finish mid table comfortably, but yesterday had bottom six or even worse stamped all over it!!!
This.
Yesterday the players capitulated far too quickly and easily. I didn't see much leadership from anyone except Dunne and perhaps Given.
Midfield is undoubtedly the problem area. Too many players lack responsibility/desire to do anything to create openings, or just try to hold the midfield unit together. Bent should have come deeper to get ball at his feet and interact with the midfield who should have been playing one-twos and triangles to move the whole team forward as a unit, with Gabby as an extra outlet/threat.
What we did was seem to go too deep into our own half to defend and let them come at us at will. When we did get the ball we just lumped it upfield for it to come straight back again. Fortunately they are not that good and created very little themselves, but still enough to beat us. If we'd been playing any decent side they'd have hammered us, well and truly.
I think we may well have to go EffDee's route and put some faith in the younger players who will have the desire to play. The current first choices seem to lack passion, desire, skill, work-rate, common sense and any inkling of how to use their experience. Petrov, Ireland and N'Zogbia all seem to be out of their depth. It would be great to think that even Bent might step forward and say "Right guys, I've been in this position before and what I'm gonna do is..."
Or is it all down to the coach/es?
If it was then they truly f****d up!
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I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
They got relegated first, TV. Blimey.
It's also nonsense to say it is their support.
Their support have spent most of the last three or four years at war with their board, most recently when they dumped the very popular Hughton and replaced him with the widely disliked Pardew, who got the job largely because he's a casino-going mate of Mike Ashley. In fact, if you were looking for a club with a bigger "disconnect" between fans and board, you'd struggle to find a better example than Newcastle.
If it is in some part the fault of the fans that things are so downhearted at Villa Park of late, I really don't know what we're supposed to do about it.
I turned up yesterday, as did the other season ticket holders who sit around us, and we were served up the same dollop of shit we've been served up consistently this season.
One shot on target all match, and that was the penalty. Against Albion. If you want a reason for the current malaise, that's got a lot to do with it. Meanwhile the owners are the other side of the Atlantic - again - running the club by email.
It all starts at the top, and if the people running the club can't show any passion about it, then God help us. In the meantime, the suggestion that it's somehow in part our fault - those of us still buying the tickets at the very least - I find reasonably offensive, I have to say.
I didn't sell Ashley Young and Stewart Downing and not replace them, and I didn't appoint a manager guaranteed to alienate fans from club and deflate any remaining optimism, and nor did I spend the last summer waxing lyrical about Deloitte football finance league tables in one breath and how skint we are in the other, and nor did any of the other 34,000 who bothered to roll up yesterday.
The whole situation so far this season, the way things have panned out, was utterly predictable since this summer. It was also largely avoidable. Bravo, Randy.
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I think everything will be ok I'm not over the moon with our performances but I reckon we will come good keep the faith.
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The other problem we have is the hangover from MON's years. We were close, very close, to achieving something; winning a trophy, Champions League were in touching distance. The collapse over the last 18 months is hard to take as supporters and we don't have the means to get anywhere near those levels again.
To a lesser extent it's like the collapse in support after 1982, within 4 years gates were at record lows, mirroring the level of performances on the pitch which as we all know was in freefall until SGT took over.
We need a leader, on or off the pitch, to bring us together, but there is no likely candidate ready to take up the challenge.
Bad times.
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We've got a crap owner, who's run out of cash and isn't interested any more, and we've got a crap manager who plays rubbish football. There's very little to be positive about when it comes to Villa at the moment, which is partly why our crowds are so low.
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I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
They got relegated first, TV. Blimey.
It's also nonsense to say it is their support.
Their support have spent most of the last three or four years at war with their board, most recently when they dumped the very popular Hughton and replaced him with the widely disliked Pardew, who got the job largely because he's a casino-going mate of Mike Ashley. In fact, if you were looking for a club with a bigger "disconnect" between fans and board, you'd struggle to find a better example than Newcastle.
If it is in some part the fault of the fans that things are so downhearted at Villa Park of late, I really don't know what we're supposed to do about it.
I turned up yesterday, as did the other season ticket holders who sit around us, and we were served up the same dollop of shit we've been served up consistently this season.
One shot on target all match, and that was the penalty. Against Albion. If you want a reason for the current malaise, that's got a lot to do with it. Meanwhile the owners are the other side of the Atlantic - again - running the club by email.
It all starts at the top, and if the people running the club can't show any passion about it, then God help us. In the meantime, the suggestion that it's somehow in part our fault - those of us still buying the tickets at the very least - I find reasonably offensive, I have to say.
I didn't sell Ashley Young and Stewart Downing and not replace them, and I didn't appoint a manager guaranteed to alienate fans from club and deflate any remaining optimism, and nor did I spend the last summer waxing lyrical about Deloitte football finance league tables in one breath and how skint we are in the other, and nor did any of the other 34,000 who bothered to roll up yesterday.
The whole situation so far this season, the way things have panned out, was utterly predictable since this summer. It was also largely avoidable. Bravo, Randy.
I've said it before, but I might as well retire from H&V as Paulie always puts my views over far better than I ever could.
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We've got a crap owner, who's run out of cash and isn't interested any more, and we've got a crap manager who plays rubbish football. There's very little to be positive about when it comes to Villa at the moment, which is partly why our crowds are so low.
I'd apply that to the majority of the Premier League. The only reason some fans are more content is that their clubs haven't been in this league as long and it's all still relatively new. Football is a joke these days, I don't see why I should blame Villa for it.
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I'm trying to get my head around why Newcastle have pulled out of their funk faster than us, and a part of is their support. It helps massively to be united in a cause. Between the two Birmingham clubs there is an air of resignation, and that's kind of how it feels watching us right now.
They got relegated first, TV. Blimey.
It's also nonsense to say it is their support.
Their support have spent most of the last three or four years at war with their board, most recently when they dumped the very popular Hughton and replaced him with the widely disliked Pardew, who got the job largely because he's a casino-going mate of Mike Ashley. In fact, if you were looking for a club with a bigger "disconnect" between fans and board, you'd struggle to find a better example than Newcastle.
If it is in some part the fault of the fans that things are so downhearted at Villa Park of late, I really don't know what we're supposed to do about it.
I turned up yesterday, as did the other season ticket holders who sit around us, and we were served up the same dollop of shit we've been served up consistently this season.
One shot on target all match, and that was the penalty. Against Albion. If you want a reason for the current malaise, that's got a lot to do with it. Meanwhile the owners are the other side of the Atlantic - again - running the club by email.
It all starts at the top, and if the people running the club can't show any passion about it, then God help us. In the meantime, the suggestion that it's somehow in part our fault - those of us still buying the tickets at the very least - I find reasonably offensive, I have to say.
I didn't sell Ashley Young and Stewart Downing and not replace them, and I didn't appoint a manager guaranteed to alienate fans from club and deflate any remaining optimism, and nor did I spend the last summer waxing lyrical about Deloitte football finance league tables in one breath and how skint we are in the other, and nor did any of the other 34,000 who bothered to roll up yesterday.
The whole situation so far this season, the way things have panned out, was utterly predictable since this summer. It was also largely avoidable. Bravo, Randy.
I've said it before, but I might as well retire from H&V as Paulie always puts my views over far better than I ever could.
Paulie, I'm afraid you've whacked that nail squarely on the head indeed.
It bloody hurts like hell to lose to that lot, but what hurts more is that as a club we are bereft of any leadership. Our tattoo getting owner has dropped us like an old pair of cacks and we are now left with the manager that no-one wanted playing turgid football to an ever decreasing crowd.
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We've got a crap owner, who's run out of cash and isn't interested any more, and we've got a crap manager who plays rubbish football. There's very little to be positive about when it comes to Villa at the moment, which is partly why our crowds are so low.
Some of our players are a pile of shit too.
Don't forget to this very day we still have the same failures who couldn't defeat Rapid Vienna in the knockout stage not once, but twice. And to think they get big wages from our club. Not only that, but we're also thinking of offering them extended contracts. Yes, I'm talking about the shit that is Heskey and Collins. And I still can't get over why Petrov is wearing the armband when he failed miserably getting his country to even finish above Wales.
It really is a nightmare at the moment. We have mickey mouse owners, a Championship manager (at best) and quite a alot of sell by date players. Sometimes I wonder if it's best to start again. I look at a club like Norwich with envy who seem to just enjoy the ride, where as with Villa it feels like it's a blackhole since MON departed.
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I still stand by my opinion that it all stems down to him leaving us in the lurch in the way he did.
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Haven't been so non plussed about Villa for a long time. We won't go down, we won't threaten the top 6/7/8, we won't win the FA Cup.
At the time of the appointment I thought AM was bought in for damage limitation this season and so it would seem. Belt tightening time, slash the wage bill, get rid of the deadwood, keep us up.
Maybe next season will tell if RL is going to have another bash at the top 4/6. Seems like light years since we were going for that top 4 spot and exciting times were ahead but we are miles way from that now and have some serious catching up to do.
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I still stand by my opinion that it all stems down to him leaving us in the lurch in the way he did.
In part Leege, yes. But what has happened since MON left isn't MON's fault.
Who took control of the situation?
It comes from the top - lack of nous and leadership. Managing the team needs vision which I don't think AM has (I hope he proves me wrong!) and the players on the pitch, none of whom seem to want to take control/lead. In principle I wouldn't want Barton, but yesterday we looked bereft of ideas and desire. No-one, and I mean no-one, including coaching staff, AM, etc seemed to have the faintest idea of what to do when we went down to 10 men. All that was missing was the white flag. I feel someone like a Barton/Laursen/McGrath/the whole team would/should have tried to DO something.
I hoped we might show a bit of McLeish steel. We didn't. The outcome was inevitable and the players seemed to just let it happen, victim mode.
The players who should be our heroes ain't being very heroic!
As a radical old fart I'd bring a few more kids in to instil a bit of passion. They certainly wouldn't do any worse than yesterday's tripe.
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I really don't get why everyone is so annoyed at the club right now? Football is in the biggest mess it's ever been in and yet so many people seem to have had it with Randy and the club in general. What the hell is he supposed to do? Print money? We could spend £50 million and we'd still get no where near the top 4 so what's the point? We may as well sit tight with the rest of the also rans and hope for some change. I'd rather have a club to support than one that's been run into the ground Ridsdale style.
All everyone seems to do these days is point fingers and moan. Supporting a team should be about enjoying it and getting behind the club as a group, yet more and more people make it sound like it's as bad as a trip to the dentists, I just don't get it? Just because we're not blessed with an endless pit it has to be someones fault. If there's anything we should be pissed off at it should be the game itself, not the Villa.
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He doesn't have to print money,appoint a decent manager would be a start.
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It's about identifying the correct players as well. As I said on another thread if we had Tiote and Cabaye in centre mid it would make a massive difference, and it wouldn't have cost a fortune.
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Because Randy knows fuck all about football,and still has no one on the board that does.
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Merged. Two different topics titles about exactly the same thing.
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I don't know why people keep saying we won't go down. There's a better chance than last season.
We have the worst manager in the league (no one else has 2 PL relegations on their C.V, only a couple have 1) and we've lost two our of best wide men who provided service for Bent.
The fact we're had the longest easiest fixtures out of everyone and we're sitting in 11th is a disgrace. I think you all have to face the reality. It's shit I know, but I think we all have to reunite and get that talentless man off the helm sooner rather than later. If the board fail to comply, we should take it to the next level. We deserve better than this (I'm not saying we deserve to be the best, just the way we've been shut out this summer like we were nothing) and we shouldn't allow them to carry on being this arrogant.
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brian green wrote umpteen times last season about how bad things were and worse than our capitulation to the 3rd tier of football, then we ended up ninth??? grow up everyone, we are doing ok in difficult circumstances, but if you want to keep the negativity going, stay at home and give it cause we dont want it at vp!
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If the board fail to comply, we should take it to the next level. We deserve better than this (I'm not saying we deserve to be the best, just the way we've been shut out this summer like we were nothing) and we shouldn't allow them to carry on being this arrogant.
And what's the next level? Holding your breath until you pass out? Thkweaming until you're thick?
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I also don't understand why Mcleish has already been labelled as clearly not up to the job? He's had 9 league games and we're currently 5th of 14 in our mini league. He's hardly in the same category as Steve Kean!
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I am with you on that one Leeg and Paulie as always is right on the money.
Martin O'Neill's departure was a calculated and premeditated act of spite in my opinion. It rocked the club and it still has not got its act back together. Much of this I believe is due to the parachuting in of executives with no football background. Our board has no feel for the game or empathy with the fans. I get the very strong feeling that to the Villa board a football club is very much like any other business when in actual fact the very opposite is true. The sequence which destroyed our hopes and our optimism was MON's vengefulness followed by the rushed appointment of a manager from a very thin field of candidates at the very worst time of the year and ending up with a man who was too old, too ill, too set in his out of date ways and too much of a self opinionated smart arse ever to secure for us the success we had come so close to achieving. His health gave out as it was bound to do and our non football aware board plunged into an absolute pig's ear of a trawl for a new manager. Like the ugly girl with bad teeth, acne, halitosis and two left feet we got to dance with the only partner who would have us Scotch Alex the serial premiership wallflower. This sequence of mismanagement of the club's affairs cost us so much money we could not do anything but paper over the cracks in the squad.
Yes, it is bad. Bad football, bad atmosphere, no spirit, no leadership, once competent players like Petrov and Heskey just going through the motions for massive wages. An absentee owner and a manager as bright and inspiring as a plate of haggis.
All that and more but they will not bore or stifle or frustrate or infuriate the love of Aston Villa out of me. Bring it on.
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I was writing when you made that comment about me rutski. You will be hard pressed to find any comment of mine in which I said we were worse than the side which went down to the third division. If you believe that 9th did not flatter us you probably thought the home game against Wolves last year was a good result.
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Are people still going to be blaming Martin O'Neill in 10 years time?
Sadly I think the answer is yes.
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I was writing when you made that comment about me rutski. You will be hard pressed to find any comment of mine in which I said we were worse than the side which went down to the third division. If you believe that 9th did not flatter us you probably thought the home game against Wolves last year was a good result.
believe me, living in the black country and travelling to the game with wolves pals, as i did with albion pals yesterday, i did not! and i feel we totally deserved our ninth place as 38 matches do not lie. Anyone who tells you the league is a false document is an ipswich fan.
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Are people still going to be blaming Martin O'Neill in 10 years time?
Sadly I think the answer is yes.
Are people still going to be blaming Martin O'Neill in 10 years time?
Sadly I think the answer is yes.
A more pertinent question is "How long can we blame him for?"
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Some of the comments in this thread make me think we'd have been better off doing a Newcastle and getting relegated. At least it might have injected a bit of interest and appreciation back in some fans if we'd been out of the league for a year. It's now clear why us and Everton appear to be the most grumpy fans at the moment as we've both been here the longest with nothing to shout about. Yet we've performed far better than most that's ever graced this division. I fear us and them are the 1st in a host of teams whose support will become increasingly down and eventually detached if things go on the way they are.
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Are people still going to be blaming Martin O'Neill in 10 years time?
Sadly I think the answer is yes.
Are people still going to be blaming Martin O'Neill in 10 years time?
Sadly I think the answer is yes.
A more pertinent question is "How long can we blame him for?"
We have had more than enough time to get over the way he left.
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Are people still going to be blaming Martin O'Neill in 10 years time?
Sadly I think the answer is yes.
Are people still going to be blaming Martin O'Neill in 10 years time?
Sadly I think the answer is yes.
A more pertinent question is "How long can we blame him for?"
We have had more than enough time to get over the way he left.
Appointing the club's most unpopular manager probably wasn't the best way of getting over it though.
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Some of the comments in this thread make me think we'd have been better off doing a Newcastle and getting relegated. At least it might have injected a bit of interest and appreciation back in some fans if we'd been out of the league for a year. It's now clear why us and Everton appear to be the most grumpy fans at the moment as we've both been here the longest with nothing to shout about. Yet we've performed far better than most that's ever graced this division. I fear us and them are the 1st in a host of teams whose support will become increasingly down and eventually detached if things go on the way they are.
I said something similar to this last season and got crucified for it.
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I also don't understand why Mcleish has already been labelled as clearly not up to the job? He's had 9 league games and we're currently 5th of 14 in our mini league. He's hardly in the same category as Steve Kean!
Are you kidding me? You're honestly saying we're now somehow 5th in this made up mini league? Come on....
And although Steve Kean is doing a poor job, he has no relegation on his C.V. He came to Blackburn around the same time when McLeish first came to Blues, but he didn't relegate Blackburn. McLeish did in his 2007/2008 season and he did it again last season. He is worse for sure. Us being above Blackburn means nothing at the moment because look how long Blackpool were above us last season until they droped into obvilion. With McLeish's laughable league record, we'll probably head the same way, but hopefully us fans will raise our concerns 10x more than the protest to put a stop to it.
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Are you kidding me? You're honestly saying we're now somehow 5th in this made up mini league? Come on....
And although Steve Kean is doing a poor job, he has no relegation on his C.V. He came to Blackburn around the same time when McLeish first came to Blues, but he didn't relegate Blackburn. McLeish did in his 2007/2008 season and he did it again last season. He is worse for sure. Us being above Blackburn means nothing at the moment because look how long Blackpool were above us last season until they droped into obvilion. With McLeish's laughable league record, we'll probably head the same way, but hopefully us fans will raise our concerns 10x more than the protest to put a stop to it.
If you think that Kean's time at Blackburn (most not as manager) allows a relevant comparison to McLeish's time in england, then you are either blinded by hatred of McLeish or don't fully understand football.
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We are like 9 other clubs in the PL, there are 3 trying to win it, 4 trying for a CL place and 3 just happy to be rubbing shoulders with the so called elite. For the rest of us Everton BBurn Bolton Stoke WBA Wolves Wigan Sunderland Fulham are just making up the numbers and playing to stay in the Division.
Its not very inspiring but this is where we are at. It isnt going to put bums on seats, it isnt going to inspire people to get involved. The longer this continues the more humdrum it will get.
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We lack a hero .
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Steve Kean better than Mcleish? I thought it was Alan Hutton who took a whack to the head, Steve Kean couldn't run a raffle.
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I think things are gonna get much worse before the new year. If we do better with this year's fixtures than i reckon, then i'll hold my hands up and admit i've overreacted, but barring a big improvement and mebbe some luck i think we'll be in the relegation mix come January 1st if not the bottom three
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We be should be aspiring for the Champions League.
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I still stand by my opinion that it all stems down to him leaving us in the lurch in the way he did.
You're right in the sense that that was where it all started, but then again, the board have had a couple of attempts and plenty of time to steer us away from the slide that started then.
All they've done is give us a hoof downhill and accelerate things.
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I still stand by my opinion that it all stems down to him leaving us in the lurch in the way he did.
You're right in the sense that that was where it all started, but then again, the board have had a couple of attempts and plenty of time to steer us away from the slide that started then.
All they've done is give us a hoof downhill and accelerate things.
Spot on. I thought at the time that Houllier was just a one off mistake, made by an inexperienced owner, but it now seems like it really is a concerted effort to put as little money and effort in until a buyer can be found.
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How much realistically are we worth at the moment + debts?
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I can't bring myself to go to the home games the football is terrible as is the atmosphere, I've been to all the away games so far but that's only because its a good laugh and everyone gets behind the team.
It does feel quite depressing at the minute we have some very average players yes Bent is quality but he needs service he gets none whatsoever, he's scored a pen and a lucky goal against blackburn. The other goal was because he got some good service from the wing. No shots on goal yesterday is unforgivable. No shots against bolton, no shots against QPR. I see we are near the bottom for passes completed as well. Mcshit talks a good game but he can't transfer it to the field, we can't defend set pieces we don't move the ball we are like statues.
The crowds will get lower and the football will get worse mark my words
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you are either blinded by hatred of McLeish or don't fully understand football.
I'm not sure those two things are mutually exclusive.
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The stats about passes completed and shots on target are a real worry. As people say we need a hero and a leader in the middle of the park. I think we need to look hard at Herd and Clark to bring this passion to the middle.
On another note how bad will it have to get before Randy pulls the trigger? Falling into the bottom 3 by Christmas?
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The stats about passes completed and shots on target are a real worry. As people say we need a hero and a leader in the middle of the park. I think we need to look hard at Herd and Clark to bring this passion to the middle.
On another note how bad will it have to get before Randy pulls the trigger? Falling into the bottom 3 by Christmas?
Dunno. he rather went out on a limb appointing AM so he'd have to eat a very large slice of humble pie. Frankly i've got nowt against AM. He seems a genuine guy and he's been dealt a shitty hand by anyone's standard with the squad and the spending, but i can't see his football achieving a finish even as high as GH. If it turns into a huge messy seperation with the ABAM mob coming out the woodwork then the only person to blame will be Randy.
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AM hasn't been given easy job but christ his team selections, tactics, subs and purchases are his choices. Most of which have been abject. A half decent manager could get much better out of this squad however thin it is.
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He doesn't have to print money,appoint a decent manager would be a start.
It's about identifying the correct players as well. As I said on another thread if we had Tiote and Cabaye in centre mid it would make a massive difference, and it wouldn't have cost a fortune.
These.
I see other teams with players with a passion and genuine desire to play good stuff or doing a bloody good job for their team and I've never heard their names before. Our "names" seem to be just that and are simply not doing what they're paid to do, which includes taking abit of responsibility when things don't go well. Our "team" surrendered far too easily yesterday and a good number of the overpaid "athletes" should be ashamed of themselves.
Most of us on here can work it out that lumping high balls up to Bent and Gabby is shit. Why can't our so-called professionals?
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The stats about passes completed and shots on target are a real worry. As people say we need a hero and a leader in the middle of the park. I think we need to look hard at Herd and Clark to bring this passion to the middle.
On another note how bad will it have to get before Randy pulls the trigger? Falling into the bottom 3 by Christmas?
Dunno. he rather went out on a limb appointing AM so he'd have to eat a very large slice of humble pie. Frankly i've got nowt against AM. He seems a genuine guy and he's been dealt a shitty hand by anyone's standard with the squad and the spending, but i can't see his football achieving a finish even as high as GH. If it turns into a huge messy seperation with the ABAM mob coming out the woodwork then the only person to blame will be Randy.
Or he could ditch Faulkner at the same time and make it clear where he thinks the blame lies.
I genuinely don't know the set up at VP (I'm not sure any of us do). Is it RL calling the shots and Faulkner merely implementing what his boss requests? Or does Faulkner have RL's ear? Did he push for more autonomy vs a vis the O'Neill situation? Did he push for the appointment of Houllier and then McLeish? Were they his recommendations to an owner who might have a few 'knowledge gaps' ? (I'll shy away from completely clueless- he wasn't so clueless for the first four years, was he.)
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Frankmosswasmyuncle you raise good point. I think the clubs scouting network or lack of one is a real issue. I reccommend listening to the radio5 live sports special called 'scouting for goals' you can get it from the BBC itunes or here 3rd August episode (http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/5lspecials/all#playepisode13)
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P.s. after listening to it, I realised that the club either (a) doesn't have a modern upto date system like our rival ( as well as many lesser clubs) , or (b) it has but doesn't use it.
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There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.
However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.
Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.
It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.
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I,for one was not overly impressed with the choice of AM as manager,however villa are my team and i was prepared to give him a chance,but he complete lack of understanding that when you are reduced to 10 men means you have to hold on to the ball is alarming.The midfield needed to get hold of the game,so what does he do he brings heskey on ,a fish out of water who didnt break into a trot and had no impact on the game.Nzog was a complete pile of crap all game,and why he started i will never know.
Someone on the coaching staff must have said Hoof the ball forward at every opportunity,a plan that was doomed to fail,Bent is not a target man who will flick balls on.The whole team except dunne and given didnt seem to want to put a shift in.Chelsea showed how to play with reduced men,ok their players are better than ours,but if to hoof it forward is our only plan then we really are in trouble.
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Or he could ditch Faulkner at the same time and make it clear where he thinks the blame lies.
I genuinely don't know the set up at VP (I'm not sure any of us do). Is it RL calling the shots and Faulkner merely implementing what his boss requests? Or does Faulkner have RL's ear? Did he push for more autonomy vs a vis the O'Neill situation? Did he push for the appointment of Houllier and then McLeish? Were they his recommendations to an owner who might have a few 'knowledge gaps' ? (I'll shy away from completely clueless- he wasn't so clueless for the first four years, was he.)
Wasn't he? He was handed MON on a plate who at the time was very highly sought after and regarded. He then allowed MON far too much control which ultimately led to the need to make severe cutbacks now. I'd put that in the clueless category to be frank. Let's not forget RL didn't make his money he inherited it, and there's nothing to indicate he's even a canny business man let alone capable of running an institution in a sport about which he appears to know the cubed root of bugger all.
I'm treating this season as a hiatus, with the sole aim of staying in the PL and consolidating, allowing some expensive contracts to run down. It would have been nice if we could have done so with a less defence-minded and a more technique oriented manager but there you go. It's depressing but we don't have the squad, funds or manager to achieve much else. Next season I would expect a bit of investment along the lines Newcastle did in the summer, some decent finds from abroad, not too pricey wages wise, but they add a bit of technique and guile to the team. If he thinks that long term we can rely on the youngsters coming through, I think we are in trouble, because some who were highly regarded do not appear to be cutting the mustard. Doug tried it in the early 80s with the likes of Paul Kerr, Bernie Gallagher, Robert Hopkins, Ivor Linton and Brendan Ormsby being over relied on and look where that ultimately led.
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Things aren't that bad, but I certainly feel a resigned acceptance about what lies ahead this season, and have done since the middle of July. We're simply treading water. I don't believe we'll go down, partly because there are a handful of clubs poorer than us and partly we still have just about enough quality to stay out of trouble, but I'm not expecting us to do much more than that.
And in that kind of situation, it's very hard to summon up much enthusiasm or be inspired by the team. One or two big wins (big as in either goals scored or against one of the top 4-6) would give everyone a lift but I'm not sure we've got that in us.
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yes it is very depressing right now and the lack of leadership is concerning -i fear for where we are heading but have sympathy for mcleish as any manager would struggle with his best players being sold and not much being given to replace them, tough times ahead i fear, but the blame lies more at randys door for me.
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I also don't understand why Mcleish has already been labelled as clearly not up to the job? He's had 9 league games and we're currently 5th of 14 in our mini league. He's hardly in the same category as Steve Kean!
Are you kidding me? You're honestly saying we're now somehow 5th in this made up mini league? Come on....
And although Steve Kean is doing a poor job, he has no relegation on his C.V. He came to Blackburn around the same time when McLeish first came to Blues, but he didn't relegate Blackburn. McLeish did in his 2007/2008 season and he did it again last season. He is worse for sure. Us being above Blackburn means nothing at the moment because look how long Blackpool were above us last season until they droped into obvilion. With McLeish's laughable league record, we'll probably head the same way, but hopefully us fans will raise our concerns 10x more than the protest to put a stop to it.
That is what's wrong, aspiring to be 5th in a group of teams that have no hope... Football can kiss my arse. Fuck it.
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I take the view that even with the selling off of our best players we still have a squad capable of staying in the PL - given a good enough manager. Unfortunately I don't think AM is good enough and I sincerely believe he is capable of achieving his 3rd relegation in 4 years.
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I don't remember feeling this way about our club before.
We seem to have an absent owner who is not in control.
We have sold our best players.
A squad that's as paper thin as any Dolly would have claimed ownership of.
A manager who is clearly not up to the job.
Or am I just over reacting to things?
In truth, although there are some valid points raised in that, it always looks worse after a defeat. Most of what you say was still true after we beat Wigan, yet things were looking better then as we had just won a game.
Despite everything that was poor on Saturday, it was a first really bad result this season, even though some of the performances haven't been all that great. I'm prepared to give AM time to rectify things, but our biggest problem right now is not creating enough chances, which I don't think is his strength anyway. As a side, we're really showing the loss of Young and Downing.
Purchaes wise he's also looking poor right now - Hutton looks average at best and N'Zogbia has been woeful. And I give him very little credit for Given, as I think that deal was lined up before he arrived. Never been a big Jenas fan either, but will reserve judgement until he plays for us.
However, I do think we have enough good players that anything lower than mid-table would be failiure for him, but not enough that a European place is to be expected. So, unless we look to be in serious relegation trouble I say let him get on with it and judge at the end of the season.
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There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.
However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.
Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.
It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.
Agree with all of this except the first sentence. Houllier's appointment was hardly rushed, Kevin Mcdonald was in charge for a number of games.
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After the Man City game many of us said that Citeh was pretty much a non-starter results-wise, and the better measure of where we are with AM would be the Baggies game. Unfortunately he came up short. No question that Herd's red card had an impact but the poor football, lack of fight and leadership, and persistence with Emile Heskey have got me worried. Other than Citeh, and maybe Everton (notoriously slow starters under Moyes) we've had an easy start and only beaten Wigan, Blackburn and Hereford.
I like McLeish as a person but was concerned when he was appointed - not because he used to manage our neighbours, but because of his record and brand of football. I've been willing to give him a chance because he's been dealt a crap hand - a team which flirted with relegation selling its flair players again, and with a remit to cut the wages. I've accepted this as a transitional season - sell the deadwood, keep us up, and rebuild based on a thin but decent squad including promising youngsters next year.
But if we don't get good results against Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, and maybe pick up a point at Spurs, I fear we'll be well in the mire come January. And given that we've so far failed to beat the likes of QPR, Wolves and Albion - yes, I'm worried
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But if we don't get good results against Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, and maybe pick up a point at Spurs, I fear we'll be well in the mire come January. And given that we've so far failed to beat the likes of QPR, Wolves and Albion - yes, I'm worried
I think we'll be in the mire come January and the chairman will be under pressure to put his hand in his pocket to strengthen the squad - a far less manageable, more expensive situation in the short window than in the summer.
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After the Man City game many of us said that Citeh was pretty much a non-starter results-wise, and the better measure of where we are with AM would be the Baggies game. Unfortunately he came up short. No question that Herd's red card had an impact but the poor football, lack of fight and leadership, and persistence with Emile Heskey have got me worried. Other than Citeh, and maybe Everton (notoriously slow starters under Moyes) we've had an easy start and only beaten Wigan, Blackburn and Hereford.
I like McLeish as a person but was concerned when he was appointed - not because he used to manage our neighbours, but because of his record and brand of football. I've been willing to give him a chance because he's been dealt a crap hand - a team which flirted with relegation selling its flair players again, and with a remit to cut the wages. I've accepted this as a transitional season - sell the deadwood, keep us up, and rebuild based on a thin but decent squad including promising youngsters next year.
But if we don't get good results against Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea, and maybe pick up a point at Spurs, I fear we'll be well in the mire come January. And given that we've so far failed to beat the likes of QPR, Wolves and Albion - yes, I'm worried
I too think we'll be in the deep and claggy after Christmas. Another poster said there were 5 other teams worse than Villa, but I'm not so sure, and if they have more fight than Villa players seem to have, we'll be flirting with relegation for a second season.
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I don't know about it feeling like 1986, but it certainly feels like 1984 or 85: the club is in a steady decline with a manager who appears to have no clear ideas about how to reverse the trend as it was back then. Back in the 1980s we suffered as a result of having good players who were past their best and whose replacements weren't of the same quality. This time around players are moving on to clubs who are perceived as being more progressive and ambitious, but again their replacements are inferior. We may not go down this season on the basis that there are probably at least three teams worse than us, but as sure as eggs is eggs then this time next year the writing will be on the wall unless drastic action is taken to arrest the decline.
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We desperately need 4 points from the Norwich and Sunderland games. If not we're in desperate trouble as after that the run of 10 games starts in which we'l have Spurs, Chelsea and Stoke away and Arsenal, Manure and Liverpool all at home in a row, I'm really struggling to see many points up to new years day really.
I think it's going to be like last season, we'll be hovering just above the relegation zone while still only being only 4-5 points off the top half. Only the football will be much much worse.
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1pt from Sunderland is an absolute without doubt must have.
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There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.
However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.
Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.
It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.
While i agree MON's departure was meant to cause as much problems for us as possible, i'm not sure things would have been that rosy if he'd stayed. The bleak fact was "his team" had peaked a good 12 months earlier. In reality the rot set in when we didn't replace Barry but shuffled the pack instead and bought Downing who was crocked. It covered up the problems in the midfield short term but then Petrov started showing his age in MON's last season and once Milner went that was it frankly. We may not have been a 1 man team but there's no doubt a lot of the best things about the team went through Milner, and it always amazed me when people were claiming last season that this was the team that should be challenging for 6th like the season before - not with Milner gone and Petrov past it . Since then its been compounded by the loss of Young and Downing which mean we have very little quality left. Ireland has shown precious little of his undoubted ability, delpth is fast resembling a white elephant on the Davies scale, Makoun was shipped off after AM caught him passing the ball..... which leaves the kids basically who we all hope will prove to be world beaters but it doesn't look like its going to happen this season
Until that midfield is sorted out we're gonna struggle however we play and Lerner is going to have to spend or AM will go the way of Houllier. Once you factor in the compensation for the manager and his staff, and having to pay a new manager and maybe his old club, it would probably make more economic sense to bite the bullet and buy a quality midfielder but financially Randy seems determined to cut off his nose to spite his face.
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Completely agree with the point about MON's team had peaked 12 months earlier, that and the fact the RL had made it very clear to MON, no more money back in the previous Jan transfer window was his swan song, IMO these reasons where far more damming than the timing of his departure.
All that said, I thought the Houllier appointment was not a good one and thus far, although more time is needed I think AM's job is a bridge to far for him, I think his appointments and Houlliers this far have not been in any way impressive, Bent looks like a fish out of water, Ireland although looks decent recently the gets dropped, previous to that hopeless, N'Zogbia, this player could eventually be chalked up as one of Villa's worst yet and with the loss of Milner, Downing and Young 3 players for a team like Villa to lose is devastating IMO.
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We have lost Milner Downing A Young Barry L Young and replaced them with Nzogbia Hutton Ireland. Add to that Petrov and Dunne aint getting any younger. It does not take a genious to workout what is going wrong. I dont think that you can put a balanced team out from the squad that we have at our disposal, none of the peices of the jigsaw fit and there are some peices missing.
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We have lost Milner Downing A Young Barry L Young and replaced them with Nzogbia Hutton Ireland. Add to that Petrov and Dunne aint getting any younger. It does not take a genious to workout what is going wrong. I dont think that you can put a balanced team out from the squad that we have at our disposal, none of the peices of the jigsaw fit and there are some peices missing.
......and lack of balance is obvious as hell, right across the middle, we are going to have to address this or pay the price over a season, actually where it on the cards a few seasons back we are going to sign Ireland and N'Zogbia and Darren Bent into the same team i would have thought decent business, they ( Ireland and N'Zogbia) just haven't happened.
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We have lost Milner Downing A Young Barry L Young and replaced them with Nzogbia Hutton Ireland. Add to that Petrov and Dunne aint getting any younger. It does not take a genious to workout what is going wrong. I dont think that you can put a balanced team out from the squad that we have at our disposal, none of the peices of the jigsaw fit and there are some peices missing.
......and lack of balance is obvious as hell, right across the middle, we are going to have to address this or pay the price over a season, actually where it on the cards a few seasons back we are going to sign Ireland and N'Zogbia and Darren Bent into the same team i would have thought decent business, they ( Ireland and N'Zogbia) just haven't happened.
I was disappointed to see the formation that worked quite well against Wigan not really employed against Albion. I thought Ireland deserved to start at home after that game. We are desperately weak in the middle of the park though. Petrov is ageing and has not lasted 90 minutes well for 2 seasons, he ain't gonna start now. Dunne in in and out, Collins in 1 in 4 and hoofs it continually when there is no need. The worry for though is without Ireland there was no movement through midfield for Bent and Gabby to be able to find space, and he does at least provide that threat.
At Sunderland next week I would sit Clark with Petrov, I thought he was excellent there at times last season, and keeps the ball quite well while giving us a bit of extra height from set plays. Cuellar, Collins, Dunne and Donkey across the back 4, Clark Petrov sitting, with Ireland, Bannan and Gabby in front and Bent up on his own. NZogbia should be limited to 60 minutes and after at the moment, and I still think he is playing way too deep OR stick him at left back and drop Warnock.
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I'd say we need at least 3 wins or 2 wins and 3 draws between now and the end of December. Obviously not the easiest set of fixtures but it can be done. With the way the league is shaping up this year I think there will be less points to be had for the also rans with the top getting stronger so I wouldnt be surprised if 50 points got 7th, which wouldn't be entirely out of reach with a good run somewhere in the new year. For now though I think we just need to get through this next quarter of the season maintaining somewhere around our current position and then push on after christmas.
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The ironic thing is I reckon we'd have finished 4th in 09/10 if we'd signed Bent that summer. We might aswell have not bothered signing Downing given he was a) injured and b) would feck off when the going got tough and just used that money to match Sunderland's bid.
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There is absolutely no doubt that the rushed appointment of Houllier and the disaster that was last season was a direct result of the spiteful departure of MON. He knew exactly what he was doing and I’m sure he enjoyed the fallout, as did his media chums.
However, when the club knew that Houllier could not reasonably carry on, we had a gilt edged chance to address the problem. Sure, we were never going to get Ancelotti, but the ranges of candidates were infinitely better than the first time of asking.
Now I’m not going to dredge up a topic that has been repeated ad infinitum since august, but I fail to see how the appointment of McLeish, the selling of our two best players and a failure to replace them with anything resembling quality can blamed on MON.
It just strikes me that the board has been determined to cut costs since MON departed and under McLeish they saw an opportunity to do this as quickly as possible, whilst still maintaining our status in the Premier League. As Dave W said, our attendances are plummeting but are in fact coming back to a level that most of us will recognise. I suspect the board has factored all of this in and despite repeated comments that they don’t know what they are doing, I think they know EXACTLY what they are doing.
While i agree MON's departure was meant to cause as much problems for us as possible, i'm not sure things would have been that rosy if he'd stayed. The bleak fact was "his team" had peaked a good 12 months earlier. In reality the rot set in when we didn't replace Barry but shuffled the pack instead and bought Downing who was crocked. It covered up the problems in the midfield short term but then Petrov started showing his age in MON's last season and once Milner went that was it frankly. We may not have been a 1 man team but there's no doubt a lot of the best things about the team went through Milner, and it always amazed me when people were claiming last season that this was the team that should be challenging for 6th like the season before - not with Milner gone and Petrov past it . Since then its been compounded by the loss of Young and Downing which mean we have very little quality left. Ireland has shown precious little of his undoubted ability, delpth is fast resembling a white elephant on the Davies scale, Makoun was shipped off after AM caught him passing the ball..... which leaves the kids basically who we all hope will prove to be world beaters but it doesn't look like its going to happen this season
Until that midfield is sorted out we're gonna struggle however we play and Lerner is going to have to spend or AM will go the way of Houllier. Once you factor in the compensation for the manager and his staff, and having to pay a new manager and maybe his old club, it would probably make more economic sense to bite the bullet and buy a quality midfielder but financially Randy seems determined to cut off his nose to spite his face.
Agree 100%
Milner was such a big loss but at least we got Ireland and Jenas will be like Bobby Charlton when he is fit..................probably in March
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1pt from Sunderland is an absolute without doubt must have.
If a point against Sunderland is our ambition now, then things are probably worse than the OP feels.
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Norwich will be no pushovers either a point at Anfield and unlucky at OT
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(http://wallpaper4me.com/resize_wallpaper.php?id=4823)
I am a ST holder, have only not had a ST for 1 and a half seasons (Gregory days) in 23 years (shit that long....) and even the half a season I still went to almost all of the games.
I realised at the game yesterday that I just do not care anymore.....Its not that I don't care about Villa I just don't care about football.
We lost against local rivals, but what does it really matter?
That we will finish 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th maybe 7th or 6th
What does it matter ?
There's no romance left, we chuck the league cup, we don't really try in the FA cup we get into Europe only to throw the game and they want to get rid of relegation and promotion as we know it.
We don't stand any chance of competing with the top 4 or 5 cant compete to sign players, we lose any players that show a modicum of promise to bigger teams, we signed a manager who's track record is two relegations in 3 years and there's very little atmosphere at the games any more.
And they wonder why people are losing interest in football.
I walked away yesterday thinking of all the other more enjoyable ways I could spend my £450 next season....it will be some miraculous marketing effort to make me spend it with Villa next year.
Empty seats my lord....two more in the lower holte i think next season.
Exactly how I've felt for the past 3 seasons, totally lost interest apart from the occasional angry rant at our chairman on here every match!!
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The last three seasons?
So getting to the Carling Cup final and FA Cup semi-final didn't really make you look up from your angry rants at the chairman?
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I gave mine and my sons seats up few seasons ago , due to difficulty making matches due to his county cricket , we used to spend a small fortune going in shop etc every game .we missed it massively initially , but now I don't miss it at all , my son, even though we are villa through and through also can take it or leave it .after being season ticket holder since 1990 (first wage packet spend k block holte end ) I find it difficult to get upbeat , even chairman appears to have got fed up of going villa park .
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The last three seasons?
So getting to the Carling Cup final and FA Cup semi-final didn't really make you look up from your angry rants at the chairman?
Sorry just got my years slightly wrong...... the decline started towards the end of that season. I must admit though towards the end of MON the football was getting a little dull. Although not even comparable to now....!
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Yes you know things are bad when ....you go to get your kids the villa kit , and they want players name on the back and you say after every choice ...."erm.. pick someone else he will be sold next window " . Beye ....safe as houses
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Yes you know things are bad when ....you go to get your kids the villa kit , and they want players name on the back and you say after every choice ...."erm.. pick someone else he will be sold next window " . Beye ....safe as houses
:) This is true, even worse when you can't actually focus on a player for fear he's about to put in the worst performance of his career, go on a goal drought, get done for drink driving, storm of and a whole plethora of other things.
Mind you there's always Gabbs....
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Well .......we had gabby this time , but its just a fact .....anyone any good gets sold , and anyone one that replaces just can't be arsed ....(see Ireland and n'zogbia)
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Well .......we had gabby this time , but its just a fact .....anyone any good gets sold , and anyone one that replaces just can't be arsed ....(see Ireland and n'zogbia)
Good choice, reliable, well intentioned, does his bit for the club in ambassadorial terms and score some great goals, why wouldn't you stick his name on a shirt, he is pretty much Aston Villa at this time, that said we'll probably flog him in Jan ;)
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why wouldn't you stick his name on a shirt
Beye would be much cheaper to have printed.
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If we do flog him brace yourself for one hell of an outburst .I wonder if randy has any idea how the game went satdee , sorry state of affairs at the minute , I have a lot of mates who support stoke , and they are overwhelmed with there chairman , although I not for one minute am I jealous .....but they seem on the up and we seem very much Erm..... dare I say it in decline .
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why wouldn't you stick his name on a shirt
Beye would be much cheaper to have printed.
and it would have much greater lifespan than even heskey
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If we do flog him brace yourself for one hell of an outburst .I wonder if randy has any idea how the game went satdee , sorry state of affairs at the minute , I have a lot of mates who support stoke , and they are overwhelmed with there chairman , although I not for one minute am I jealous .....but they seem on the up and we seem very much Erm..... dare I say it in decline .
Think we will see Mr Lerner attending the Man United and Liverpool games in December, unless of course he is completely disinterested.
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why wouldn't you stick his name on a shirt
Beye would be much cheaper to have printed.
and it would have much greater lifespan than even heskey
To true, what contract is Beye on.
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BEYE. Is on.a very bloody good contract :( thanks to Mon ,randy will be at villa park about Jan time , just in time to make a signing to save ourselves from relegation :-\
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If we do flog him brace yourself for one hell of an outburst .I wonder if randy has any idea how the game went satdee , sorry state of affairs at the minute , I have a lot of mates who support stoke , and they are overwhelmed with there chairman , although I not for one minute am I jealous .....but they seem on the up and we seem very much Erm..... dare I say it in decline .
Think we will see Mr Lerner attending the Man United and Liverpool games in December, unless of course he is completely disinterested.
He only comes to games he thinks we will win, so we won't be seeing him very often I reckon.
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With the growth of the internet, social media etc [get me sounding like I'm au fait with modern communication methods] people can air their opinions almost immediately and at times of high emotion. There's also the tendency to give these views more credence than they warrant. When someone sends me a snotty e-mail at work, my strategy is to wait at least an hour, if not a heck of a lot longer, before responding.
Anyway, I don't think things are good, but neither do I think the end of the world is nigh.
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I am a ST holder, have only not had a ST for 1 and a half seasons (Gregory days) in 23 years (shit that long....) and even the half a season I still went to almost all of the games.
I realised at the game yesterday that I just do not care anymore.....Its not that I don't care about Villa I just don't care about football.
We lost against local rivals, but what does it really matter?
That we will finish 11th, 10th, 9th, 8th maybe 7th or 6th
What does it matter ?
There's no romance left, we chuck the league cup, we don't really try in the FA cup we get into Europe only to throw the game and they want to get rid of relegation and promotion as we know it.
We don't stand any chance of competing with the top 4 or 5 cant compete to sign players, we lose any players that show a modicum of promise to bigger teams, we signed a manager who's track record is two relegations in 3 years and there's very little atmosphere at the games any more.
And they wonder why people are losing interest in football.
I walked away yesterday thinking of all the other more enjoyable ways I could spend my £450 next season....it will be some miraculous marketing effort to make me spend it with Villa next year.
Empty seats my lord....two more in the lower holte i think next season.
Exactly how I feel.
Manage to get to 7/8 games a year while visiting family in UK. Meeting up with
mates before and after the games for a few beers is great but I'm afraid the football is crap.
Really cant see where we go from here apart from more into the abyss.
Hope I'M wrong but we can't keep selling our best players year after year and hope to
survive.
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No.
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Yes you know things are bad when ....you go to get your kids the villa kit , and they want players name on the back and you say after every choice ...."erm.. pick someone else he will be sold next window " . Beye ....safe as houses
Yep, been there done that.
whose name do you want on your shirt son?
Barry.
A year later
.whose name do you want on your shirt, now that Barry has gone
Milner.
Another year later.
whose name do you want on your shirt, now that Milner has gone
Young.
This year
do you want your first name or your surname on your shirt!
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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-24002951-its-time-for-spurs-to-build-on-success-or-we-might-end-up-like-villa.do
It seems we've become the yardstick for how not to progress.
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The last three seasons?
So getting to the Carling Cup final and FA Cup semi-final didn't really make you look up from your angry rants at the chairman?
MON got annihilated at the time because that was deemed as not enough. Sadly the board deemed that as about as much as we are going to achieve, and pulled the plug on money invested.
Apart from the loss of the final, it does seem to mirror the 95-96 season under BL.
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[quote Not long ago, they were maybe two or three players away from becoming a top team. They didn't buy them and they didn't keep the ones who were already there and since that time, they have taken a few steps back.
[/quote]
Says it all really.
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If we do flog him brace yourself for one hell of an outburst .I wonder if randy has any idea how the game went satdee , sorry state of affairs at the minute , I have a lot of mates who support stoke , and they are overwhelmed with there chairman , although I not for one minute am I jealous .....but they seem on the up and we seem very much Erm..... dare I say it in decline .
Think we will see Mr Lerner attending the Man United and Liverpool games in December, unless of course he is completely disinterested.
Those have the potential of being far more than eye openers, tear jerkers in fact.
I don't think he's coming over to face the flack, he's leaving the ex MBNA Customer Services Manager in charge.
And I say this as someone who met with a Lawyer only 2 days ago who has dealt with him in some recent events.
I'm saying no more ( obviously).
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Yes you know things are bad when ....you go to get your kids the villa kit , and they want players name on the back and you say after every choice ...."erm.. pick someone else he will be sold next window " . Beye ....safe as houses
Yep, been there done that.
whose name do you want on your shirt son?
Barry.
A year later
.whose name do you want on your shirt, now that Barry has gone
Milner.
Another year later.
whose name do you want on your shirt, now that Milner has gone
Young.
This year
do you want your first name or your surname on your shirt!
[/quoteplayed that card ....the junior pavs were not having any .