Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Duncan Shaw on October 08, 2011, 11:37:21 AM
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I know it's from the mirror, but have they just made this up?
Mr. Lerner's silence is deafening this season and I'm sure we'll be the only ones follwoing the financial fair play rules if true!
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Aston-Villa-exclusive-Club-want-to-cut-players-average-wage-by-10k-per-week-article809127.html
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If true, then we can kiss goodbye to any exciting new signings. Looks like average players like Hutton or the hope of a gem that comes good.
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I don't know what's the more depressing - the anti-Randy hysteria this will create or the fact that an average wage of £46k a week is regarded as bargain basement.
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Who is letting this information out. Other clubs must be in the same mess.
Is this all down to martin o,traitor face.
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I don't know what's the more depressing - the anti-Randy hysteria this will create or the fact that an average wage of £46k a week is regarded as bargain basement.
Quite, an average of £46k means that plenty of people will be earning considerably more.
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I don't know what's the more depressing - the anti-Randy hysteria this will create or the fact that an average wage of £46k a week is regarded as bargain basement.
Whilst Randy's stewardship of the club has plummeted in my estimations over the last twelve months, I'm heartily fed up with players earning more in a week than I do in a year feeling that they're somehow hard done by.
I continue to harbour - probably forlorn - hopes that somewhere down the line your run-of-the-mill Premier League player (and more pertinently, their agent) will come to realise that the wages offered by the likes of Manchester City are the exception and that their lot in life - £2+ million a year, lest we forget, is really not that bad after all.
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It's most unlike Mr Nursey to come up with something negative is'nt it?
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The revelation that we're trying to reduce the wage bill is up there in the exciting scoop stakes with the fact that today is Saturday.
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The OP is absolutely right. It was in The Mirror. Ignore.
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James Nursey is a ******
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If true I think it is a sensible thing to do.
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
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what annoys me immensely is that the media seem to have made this into an Aston Villa and Randy Lerner thing. It isn't at all, and maybe with the exception of one or two sides, it is everyone at varying degrees of radicalness (is that even a word?). Ours might appear a steeper decline given some of the players we've sold, but ultimately the other sides (most of whom are of similar stature today to us, will need to do likewise and get to pretty much the position.
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
Remember the sense of excitement when he first started posting on H&V? It was like we were able to communicate directly with our liberators and saviours! There was a 'Greetings Earthlings' type quality to it in fact.
I miss those days of unbridled optimism at Villa Park.
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How the fuck is our average wage as high as £56K per week?
It doesn't add up.
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How the fuck is our average wage as high as £56K per week?
It doesn't add up.
Which is why the story is complete bollocks.
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We've been trying to get rid of beye for ages its hardly news. I really can't see anyone being told they have to take a pay cut.
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How the fuck is our average wage as high as £56K per week?
It doesn't add up.
Journalists can't do math.
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I think Randy wants out.
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That article is a load of utter shite.
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I think Randy wants out.
I think this has been obvious for some time, personally i think he has realised just what it costs to achieve any kind of success in the Premiership and even to maintain a team in the division and he's had enough.
Worth also remembering that although he no longer has a direct stake in what was his MBNA banking corporation, he still retains an interest and still gleans an income form that, in these times when banks are being hit left right and centre, he simply may no longer have the money.
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I think Randy wants out.
I think this has been obvious for some time, personally i think he has realised just what it costs to achieve any kind of success in the Premiership and even to maintain a team in the division and he's had enough.
Worth also remembering that although he no longer has a direct stake in what was his MBNA banking corporation, he still retains an interest and still gleans an income form that, in these times when banks are being hit left right and centre, he simply may no longer have the money.
And I think people (this comment not aimed at you) need to understand that this doesn't make him a *insert expletive*.
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I think Randy wants out.
I think this has been obvious for some time, personally i think he has realised just what it costs to achieve any kind of success in the Premiership and even to maintain a team in the division and he's had enough.
Worth also remembering that although he no longer has a direct stake in what was his MBNA banking corporation, he still retains an interest and still gleans an income form that, in these times when banks are being hit left right and centre, he simply may no longer have the money.
And I think people (this comment not aimed at you) need to understand that this doesn't make him a *insert expletive*.
Quite agree, lets face it how many things in life do you jump into thinking its one thing only to find its something entirely different and an albatross around your neck that you can't wait to get rid of.
If and its a big IF, Randy Lerner decided to jump ship and sell up, I would be the first to say thanks for rescuing us from Ellis and in moving the club forward somewhat, only wish he had deeper pockets, because you have to say he's a good Chairman on the whole.
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I think Randy wants out.
I think this has been obvious for some time, personally i think he has realised just what it costs to achieve any kind of success in the Premiership and even to maintain a team in the division and he's had enough.
Worth also remembering that although he no longer has a direct stake in what was his MBNA banking corporation, he still retains an interest and still gleans an income form that, in these times when banks are being hit left right and centre, he simply may no longer have the money.
And I think people (this comment not aimed at you) need to understand that this doesn't make him a *insert expletive*.
Quite agree, lets face it how many things in life do you jump into thinking its one thing only to find its something entirely different and an albatross around your neck that you can't wait to get rid of.
If and its a big IF, Randy Lerner decided to jump ship and sell up, I would be the first to say thanks for rescuing us from Ellis and in moving the club forward somewhat, only wish he had deeper pockets, because you have to say he's a good Chairman on the whole.
Agree but, as per Randy, I think Ellis thought he was doing what was best.
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Rigadon: No question in financial terms Ellis handed over a club in good order and good standing, and i think its fair to say, that's something that we should put on his epitaph for his time at Villa ( you could also make a few points where Ellis was concerned that were not so good!!!) point is Ellis handed over to Randy Lerner, so found the right man at the time, but, obviously things change.
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
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A consortium that is connected with Doug Ellis are reported to be in the process of buying the club back.
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Rigadon: No question in financial terms Ellis handed over a club in good order and good standing, and i think its fair to say, that's something that we should put on his epitaph for his time at Villa ( you could also make a few points where Ellis was concerned that were not so good!!!) point is Ellis handed over to Randy Lerner, so found the right man at the time, but, obviously things change.
By handed over you mean "sold at a huge profit after making a small fortune while running the club".
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A consortium that is connected with Doug Ellis are reported to be in the process of buying the club back.
Anything to do with that Padfied chap, who was interested last time?
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A consortium that is connected with Doug Ellis are reported to be in the process of buying the club back.
Anything to do with that Padfied chap, who was interested last time?
Please, not even in jest.
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If my boss was going to try and cut my pay to a paltry £46,000 per week I would go out on strike and would hope other ordinary working people would come out too in solidarity and support.
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Rigadon: No question in financial terms Ellis handed over a club in good order and good standing, and i think its fair to say, that's something that we should put on his epitaph for his time at Villa ( you could also make a few points where Ellis was
concerned that were not so good!!!) point is Ellis handed over to Randy Lerner, so
found the right man at the time, but, obviously things change.
By handed over you mean "sold at a huge profit after making a small fortune
while running the club".
Or sold at fair Market value after earning a similar amount to other chief execs?
It'll be interesting what price Lerner puts on the club if the rumour listed on here
is true. I imagine he will look for fair market value even after paying a piss poor management team hefty salaries.
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It must be true,it is now October and nobody has started a January transfer thread yet
even though there has been a few made up transfer links.
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Hmm, I had no idea Lerner hadn't been to a game this time out. I'm surprised.
Where is this take over rumour coming from?
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Rigadon: No question in financial terms Ellis handed over a club in good order and good standing, and i think its fair to say, that's something that we should put on his epitaph for his time at Villa ( you could also make a few points where Ellis was
concerned that were not so good!!!) point is Ellis handed over to Randy Lerner, so
found the right man at the time, but, obviously things change.
By handed over you mean "sold at a huge profit after making a small fortune
while running the club".
Or sold at fair Market value after earning a similar amount to other chief execs?
It'll be interesting what price Lerner puts on the club if the rumour listed on here
is true. I imagine he will look for fair market value even after paying a piss poor management team hefty salaries.
My point was that he didn't, as suggested, hand the club over to Lerner. He sold at a huge profit that as majority shareholder benefitted him enormously. That was consistent with his overall tenure where decisions that benefitted Herbert had been the norm.
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If my boss was going to try and cut my pay to a paltry £46,000 per week I would go out on strike and would hope other ordinary working people would come out too in solidarity and support.
A picket line across the entrance gates of every Premier League club, well a blockade of Ferrari's parked and left by servants is probably more like it.
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Hmm, I had no idea Lerner hadn't been to a game this time out. I'm surprised.
Where is this take over rumour coming from?
From Dave Clark Five!
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I wonder do Randy have big investment or income coming in to support his two teams. I think Randy Lerner is great but he doesn't have the financial muscle to support two teams. He have to decided which one to go for.
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If true I think it is a sensible thing to do.
True.
He could have put a positive slant on it.
'Villa are making a statement of intent, it's good for the game'
The game is going mad, so someone has to do something to bring some realism back.
Sadly it means that Villa aren't a big wages club - no £100k a week plus at B6, which = less chance of competing with the rich clubs who I think should be looked at and surely, the ability to be able to buy trophies is definitely a high agenda item for football in general.
Only a maximum wage can do this.
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I said at the time we should have gone with Michael Neville. He was a real visionary, he was going introduce 'broadband' to us all. Also, he was really keen to include fans in all decision making and finance raising. He invited a fans forum round to his house in Solihull to help him empty the sofa to raise money for new signings.
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Hmm, I had no idea Lerner hadn't been to a game this time out. I'm surprised.
Where is this take over rumour coming from?
From Dave Clark Five!
I see. Must be true then :)
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
Do we keep his money, or do we send it back to him?
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
Do we keep his money, or do we send it back to him?
Ha Ha very funny......I'm sure he can arrange for his bank to have the balance of the Downing / Young money sent electronically at the press of a button along with the sale of the club. Perhaps you enjoy the boring safety of mid-table mediocrity?
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
Do we keep his money, or do we send it back to him?
Ha Ha very funny......I'm sure he can arrange for his bank to have the balance of the Downing / Young money sent electronically at the press of a button along with the sale of the club. Perhaps you enjoy the boring safety of mid-table mediocrity?
Would that be the Downing and Young that were paid for by Randy in the first place, and who both wanted to leave?
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
Do we keep his money, or do we send it back to him?
Ha Ha very funny......I'm sure he can arrange for his bank to have the balance of the Downing / Young money sent electronically at the press of a button along with the sale of the club. Perhaps you enjoy the boring safety of mid-table mediocrity?
Would that be the Downing and Young that were paid for by Randy in the first place, and who both wanted to leave?
And why did they want to leave along with Barry and Milner? Because they could see that the club were not going to challenge seriously for the top honours and that is now more distant than ever. Mr Lerner allowed MON to squander most of the money and by the time he realised it wasn't going to work MON resigned.
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I wonder if he'll have the big screen put back before he goes... or is it already installed at the Lerner residence :D
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I wonder if he'll have the big screen put back before he goes... or is it already installed at the Lerner residence :D
Ha ha
Faulkner is on record saying that it was not aesthetically pleasing and low graphics and other stadiums don't have them - Man Ure for instance.
I do think Randy wants out, but is struggling just like Everton to find the right buyer.
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I'm as disapointed as anyone that we've let some good players ago, i'm sure Arsenal fans feel the same after losing Nasri and Fabregas so we're not alone in that and besides, Young was never going to turn down Man Utd.
It's disapointing but we still spent £16m in the summer. No it was'nt enough but if the likes of Bannan and Ireland come good off the back of it, then we'll be ok.
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I think Randys intentions will become clearer if an offer comes in for say Bannan in the Summer if he has a blinding season Young and Downing most people can accept but if he starts flogging off our homegrown talent things could start to get nasty
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
What size is that? A club averaging about 32k this season? Surely we have to be able to support ourselves not rely on the whim of whichever billionaire fancies a crack at it? To do that we have to be realistic about wages. I hate this attitude of pleading to be the next Man City, show some fucking dignity.
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
Do we keep his money, or do we send it back to him?
Ha Ha very funny......I'm sure he can arrange for his bank to have the balance of the Downing / Young money sent electronically at the press of a button along with the sale of the club. Perhaps you enjoy the boring safety of mid-table mediocrity?
Would that be the Downing and Young that were paid for by Randy in the first place, and who both wanted to leave?
And why did they want to leave along with Barry and Milner? Because they could see that the club were not going to challenge seriously for the top honours and that is now more distant than ever. Mr Lerner allowed MON to squander most of the money and by the time he realised it wasn't going to work MON resigned.
[/quoRandy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
What size is that? A club averaging about 32k this season? Surely we have to be able to support ourselves not rely on the whim of whichever billionaire fancies a crack at it? To do that we have to be realistic about wages. I hate this attitude of pleading to be the next Man City, show some fucking dignity.
Dead right Chris, it gets my fucking goat as well.
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
Do we keep his money, or do we send it back to him?
Ha Ha very funny......I'm sure he can arrange for his bank to have the balance of the Downing / Young money sent electronically at the press of a button along with the sale of the club. Perhaps you enjoy the boring safety of mid-table mediocrity?
I enjoy supporting the team I've always supported without stamping my foot every time things go wrong and believing there's an endless stream of oligarchs waiting to donate their fortunes to us then walk away once they've got no money left.
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Our decline isn't the fault of MON squandering money or Randy letting him. Our aim of competing for the top prizes was over as soon as we decided not to/couldn't afford to pay the likes of Barry, Milner and Young 150k a week. No amount of cheaper foreign right-backs we might have bought would have made that affordable for Randy's Villa, sadly.
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Our aim of competing for the top prizes was over as soon as we decided not to/couldn't afford to pay the likes of Barry, Milner and Young 150k a week.
Didn't the General claim that we matched any offers of salary the above had recieved. At the time I couldnt see how it could be true
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I honestly believe he came to Villa believing that, with MON in charge, the league how it was at the time and a him putting in a fair bit of money, we would make the Champions League (which was their ultimate aim) by now.
Unfortunately, because of a variety of reasons, we just missed out.
Now we're in a position that he had hope not to be in, so he's cutting back because he can't afford to put the same amounts of money in time after time. I think now he's got to let the club just tick over, not because he wants that to happen, but because, financially, he just can't do it anymore.
We had our chance and blew it/were unlucky to miss out.
From my perspective, Stoke ruined it for us. Those 2 goals late in the game after that Europa league game. From what I can remember, it was two silly errors for thos Stoke goals. If those errors weren't made, we really would be in a different position now...but, it didn't and we're in the position we're in.
As for the wages, if we can rid ourselves of players such as Beye and Heskey and replace them with young, cheaper players with potential instead, then I don't see the problem.
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Rigadon: No question in financial terms Ellis handed over a club in good order and good standing, and i think its fair to say, that's something that we should put on his epitaph for his time at Villa ( you could also make a few points where Ellis was
concerned that were not so good!!!) point is Ellis handed over to Randy Lerner, so
found the right man at the time, but, obviously things change.
By handed over you mean "sold at a huge profit after making a small fortune
while running the club".
Or sold at fair Market value after earning a similar amount to other chief execs?
It'll be interesting what price Lerner puts on the club if the rumour listed on here
is true. I imagine he will look for fair market value even after paying a piss poor management team hefty salaries.
My point was that he didn't, as suggested, hand the club over to Lerner. He sold at a huge profit that as majority shareholder benefitted him enormously. That was consistent with his overall tenure where decisions that benefitted Herbert had been the norm.
My point is that Lerner is not the great philanthropist many on here would have us believe. You might argue the will was there to do something, but the business acumen in the face of being financially outgunned wasn't. The reality is that he's a business man who's had least had the sense to not to metaphorically piss the family farm up the wall.
Clearly Ellis was out for himself, but at least in his prime he was part of something very special in returning Villa from the 3rd division to European champions.
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What size is that? A club averaging about 32k this season? Surely we have to be able to support ourselves not rely on the whim of whichever billionaire fancies a crack at it? To do that we have to be realistic about wages. I hate this attitude of pleading to be the next Man City, show some fucking dignity.
My thoughts exactly
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I enjoy supporting the team I've always supported without stamping my foot every time things go wrong and believing there's an endless stream of oligarchs waiting to donate their fortunes to us then walk away once they've got no money left.
I am longing for the day when something happens with the likes of Abramovich that causes him to withdraw all his money and leave Chelsea in the shit. Maybe we could then get back to the days when most clubs were run by local businessmen.
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
What size is that? A club averaging about 32k this season? Surely we have to be able to support ourselves not rely on the whim of whichever billionaire fancies a crack at it? To do that we have to be realistic about wages. I hate this attitude of pleading to be the next Man City, show some fucking dignity.
Spot on Chris, sadly lacking in far too many.
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show some fucking dignity.
That's the Premier League in 2011. You can either aim for dignity or aim to win, but not both.
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maybe if we could fill Villa park week in week out RL would come up with the money for wages, transfers etc because of the desire of the fans to see us challenging. He knows that ain't gonna happen no matter how much he put's in. I think the General's knocking of the attendance for Bent's debut against Citeh has a lot more significance than one may think.
AVFC
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I honestly believe he came to Villa believing that, with MON in charge, the league how it was at the time and a him putting in a fair bit of money, we would make the Champions League (which was their ultimate aim) by now.
Unfortunately, because of a variety of reasons, we just missed out.
Now we're in a position that he had hope not to be in, so he's cutting back because he can't afford to put the same amounts of money in time after time. I think now he's got to let the club just tick over, not because he wants that to happen, but because, financially, he just can't do it anymore.
We had our chance and blew it/were unlucky to miss out.
From my perspective, Stoke ruined it for us. Those 2 goals late in the game after that Europa league game. From what I can remember, it was two silly errors for thos Stoke goals. If those errors weren't made, we really would be in a different position now...but, it didn't and we're in the position we're in.
As for the wages, if we can rid ourselves of players such as Beye and Heskey and replace them with young, cheaper players with potential instead, then I don't see the problem.
I'm not sure if I buy this. It's not as if you get into the Champions League there is no way to out. Spurs showed that last season. Imagine MON playing the same eleven not only every week, but two times or three times a week. Any way you look at it, the strategy in the MON era was unsustainable. If we had qualified for CL the fun would have probably lasted a little longer, but Man City would had eventually replaced us and relegated us to the legion of also-rans.
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GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
Bet Nicky Keye is doing cartwheels.
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When Randy took over and stated his ambitions, I said it would mean losses of hundreds of millions over a few years. I believed him because I thoughthaving researched it, he knew this. Maybe he just didn't.
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show some fucking dignity.
That's the Premier League in 2011. You can either aim for dignity or aim to win, but not both.
So true. So sad.
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Lets make Randy an offer.
I've just done the maths.
If Randy is in the shite (and I think he is) say £100 million to buy the club.
50,000 of us. Ok thats possibly a stretch but it makes the maths easy.
20 grand each on the current best 10 year mortgage rate of 3.99% means that the loan is paid for in 10 years at a cost of £205 per month. Lots of us spend that on a car loan.
Make it a condition of our shared ownership that the club cant go into debt of more than 10% of annual turnover (ie keep it on an even keel).
Would we ever make money from it ? I doubt it. But thats not the point. A Barca in Birmingham. Owned by the people.
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You are talking about the Barcelona that's 483 million Euros in debt, aren't you?
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You are talking about the Barcelona that's 483 million Euros in debt, aren't you?
yes the one thats owned by 150,000 locals and one of the most successful clubs in history. But thats why I put the point in about debt not exceeding 10% of turnover in a constitution.
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Randy hasn't been over for a single game so far this season .GK has disappeared off the forums. I find that more worrying
So Randy is one those fair weather fans that are not going the games anymore then.
That is depressing!
Even more reason for him to sell up to hopefully someone who can inject the significant funds required to run a club the size of Villa. He's clearly given up the ghost and selling the club's brightest talent year on year is scandalous and will ruin the club's future - stay on the other side of the pond for good Lerner!
What size is that? A club averaging about 32k this season? Surely we have to be able to support ourselves not rely on the whim of whichever billionaire fancies a crack at it? To do that we have to be realistic about wages. I hate this attitude of pleading to be the next Man City, show some fucking dignity.
I know what you mean, but then again, how many of us were taking this line when Randy was looking like he'd pour money into the club?
The fact is we will never be able to compete if we have to live on what we earn. Begging to be the next Man City is one thing, wanting us to compete and have allusions to winning something is another.
My opinion is that he wants us to be like Everton, and thinks AM can be his Moyes. If that's his aim, then fair enough, but ask Everton fans how much they're enjoying it.
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Lets make Randy an offer.
I've just done the maths.
If Randy is in the shite (and I think he is) say £100 million to buy the club.
50,000 of us. Ok thats possibly a stretch but it makes the maths easy.
20 grand each on the current best 10 year mortgage rate of 3.99% means that the loan is paid for in 10 years at a cost of £205 per month. Lots of us spend that on a car loan.
Make it a condition of our shared ownership that the club cant go into debt of more than 10% of annual turnover (ie keep it on an even keel).
Would we ever make money from it ? I doubt it. But thats not the point. A Barca in Birmingham. Owned by the people.
You'd be lucky to get 50 people to cough up 20 grand each, never mind 50,000.
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When Randy took over and stated his ambitions, I said it would mean losses of hundreds of millions over a few years. I believed him because I thoughthaving researched it, he knew this. Maybe he just didn't.
In all that has happened over the last few years, it isn't the selling of our best players that worries me most, it isn't the bad appointments, it isn't the amateurishness we've (well, some of us) seen in the way the club is run, it isn't the slow down on the spending, and it isn't the tackling of the wage bill.
It is the suggestion that he has lost interest in us. Not the fact that he has decided we can't compete, but the idea that he has got bored of it after five years.
When they came here, they told us they were in it for the long haul, through thick and thin, and that we were all in this together.
Now look at the situation. They have abruptly ceased communicating with the forums without even having the decency to tell us - not to tell us why, even, just to tell us, they just disappeared abruptly.
Now we hear that Randy hasn't even been over for a game this season.
I'm sure you could make an argument for why he should have lost interest etc etc, but looking at what has happened, it is hard not to feel somewhat disappointed and hurt that it has come to this.
It is also - given the abrupt disappearance of the general - really quite hard not to look back at the lines of communication the club opened and not come to the conclusion that the minute it stopped being of use to them, the minute it got difficult, they were off.
It really was quite shabby.
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The fact is we will never be able to compete if we have to live on what we earn. Begging to be the next Man City is one thing, wanting us to compete and have allusions to winning something is another.
It doesn't help that half the money he has spent has been wasted in the most hideous and wanton manner imaginable. Still, entirely his fault for letting O'Neill spend it. We have neither the money of clubs like Man City, or an owner who knows what he's doing.
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The fact is we will never be able to compete if we have to live on what we earn. Begging to be the next Man City is one thing, wanting us to compete and have allusions to winning something is another.
It doesn't help that half the money he has spent has been wasted in the most hideous and wanton manner imaginable. Still, entirely his fault for letting O'Neill spend it. We have neither the money of clubs like Man City, or an owner who knows what he's doing.
Who now is setting himself up to be an absentee owner.
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I said earlier in the thread that I was surprised that Lerner hadn't been over for a game this season. The more I think about it the more surprised I am. He had so much good will in the bank that it's difficult to criticise (maybe there are valid, personal or whatever, reasons for this no show) but this one single point makes me, for the first time, proper;y wonder whether were about to be sold up.
I remember reading ages ago him talking about "big bad Man City coming along" - sorry can't remember exactly where or when the interview was. I think he realised buying our way into the champions league was fucked a while ago and agree with posters suggesting he has appointed AM as our own Moyes. Problem with this approach is that the premier league Moyes steered Everton into 4th didn't contain the modern day Man City.
It really is best for us to support the club and to enjoy the ride and any victories along the way. Sorry if this sounds a little hokey,but we just have to realise that the journey will almost certainly end in about 7th or 8th place.
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When Randy took over and stated his ambitions, I said it would mean losses of hundreds of millions over a few years. I believed him because I thoughthaving researched it, he knew this. Maybe he just didn't.
In all that has happened over the last few years, it isn't the selling of our best players that worries me most, it isn't the bad appointments, it isn't the amateurishness we've (well, some of us) seen in the way the club is run, it isn't the slow down on the spending, and it isn't the tackling of the wage bill.
It is the suggestion that he has lost interest in us. Not the fact that he has decided we can't compete, but the idea that he has got bored of it after five years.
When they came here, they told us they were in it for the long haul, through thick and thin, and that we were all in this together.
Now look at the situation. They have abruptly ceased communicating with the forums without even having the decency to tell us - not to tell us why, even, just to tell us, they just disappeared abruptly.
Now we hear that Randy hasn't even been over for a game this season.
I'm sure you could make an argument for why he should have lost interest etc etc, but looking at what has happened, it is hard not to feel somewhat disappointed and hurt that it has come to this.
It is also - given the abrupt disappearance of the general - really quite hard not to look back at the lines of communication the club opened and not come to the conclusion that the minute it stopped being of use to them, the minute it got difficult, they were off.
It really was quite shabby.
Americans are all talk, bullshit is in their blood - I can see some 'Randy out' banners around VP before Christmas.
I think we've seen the proof of their fleeting interest followed by a quick exit when the going got tough.
Semper Videlis - my arse.
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Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".
I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions.
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I've heard over the last couple of months and increasingly over the last few days or so that there is a massive financial crisis brewing. People have referred to it on other threads on here. I know about the General's new job and that he might not have the time or opportunity to keep up a forum presence, but isn't it possible thatin Randy's case, the reason Randy's not been in evidence for a few weeks this season is connected at least to this situation and its impact upon his business and his investments, including Villa and doing his best to manage all of his interests within the context of this global financial problem?
In this case the man can't be everywhere and I've no doubt that he is in constant contact with his CEOs whilst he works hard to stabilize and assure the future of his various responsibilities.
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I don't know what interest Randy still has in MBNA but I understand they are in financial melt down and seeking an urgent sale of their entire credit book. However possible buyers are only willing to pay a fraction of the value.
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I don't know what interest Randy still has in MBNA but I understand they are in financial melt down and seeking an urgent sale of their entire credit book. However possible buyers are only willing to pay a fraction of the value.
I think he is out of MBNA after selling up.
It's interesting that I met an ex MBNA guy when he took over and he thought it was a plaything - I took no notice as the guy in question is a SHAer.
Hmmmm
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Americans are all talk, bullshit is in their blood - I can see some 'Randy out' banners around VP before Christmas.
I think we've seen the proof of their fleeting interest followed by a quick exit when the going got tough.
Semper Videlis - my arse.
Nice to see you back on form.
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Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".
I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions.
Your debating style gets worse by the day. I didn't even mention Beye, so to suggest that the money I was talking about being wasted was only on him, and then telling me to get some perspective based on your completely incorrect interpretation is ridiculous. You're either being dim or setting yourself up as the new Coopers Injury to get a reaction.
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Americans are all talk, bullshit is in their blood - I can see some 'Randy out' banners around VP before Christmas.
I think we've seen the proof of their fleeting interest followed by a quick exit when the going got tough.
Semper Videlis - my arse.
Nice to see you back on form.
You know what Semper Videlis means ?
I see no sign of it lately, do you, have you seen him at VP, have you spoken with or heard from Gen K ?
Real question.
Ps. I'm not i the 'Randy out' camp, I'm in the 'Randy SPEAK' camp.
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Rigadon: No question in financial terms Ellis handed over a club in good order and good standing, and i think its fair to say, that's something that we should put on his epitaph for his time at Villa ( you could also make a few points where Ellis was
concerned that were not so good!!!) point is Ellis handed over to Randy Lerner, so
found the right man at the time, but, obviously things change.
By handed over you mean "sold at a huge profit after making a small fortune
while running the club".
Or sold at fair Market value after earning a similar amount to other chief execs?
It'll be interesting what price Lerner puts on the club if the rumour listed on here
is true. I imagine he will look for fair market value even after paying a piss poor management team hefty salaries.
My point was that he didn't, as suggested, hand the club over to Lerner. He sold at a huge profit that as majority shareholder benefitted him enormously. That was consistent with his overall tenure where decisions that benefitted Herbert had been the norm.
I'm talking about handing over the running of the club, I'm not talking about him literally handing a club to someone for nothing or little, but as you bring the subject up, Ellis sold Villa to Lerner for 60+ ML friggin peanuts, you could pay more for a single footballer, so come to think about it yes he did hand the club over, but if you are complaining about how much profit Ellis took out the club over the years, I thought you where well into people raking of the top of these large companies....
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It's a bit of a dichotomy though.
When Citeh are winning things all and sundry, their fans won't get the same feeling as they would have done if it had been down to organic development, fab management, superb home grown players.
They expect, they've paid enough money to expect.
The problem is that we aren't up there in the £ stakes, so we are in Everton territory, but at least their Chairman has admitted this and is actively seeking a buyer.
We get nothing, no comms is always worrying.
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You know what Semper Videlis means ?
Semper Fidelis is Latin for Always Faithful.
I have no idea what Semper Videlis means though.
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I think he'll sell, and maybe looking for a buyer on the quiet. I base this on what he said way back, something about letting someone else have a go if he couldn't achieve what he set out to. No reason yet not to trust him IMO.
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I think he'll sell, and maybe looking for a buyer on the quiet. I base this on what he said way back, something about letting someone else have a go if he couldn't achieve what he set out to. No reason yet not to trust him IMO.
I agree, IMO its just a matter of time, you could even say that all these cut backs are part of a policy to make the clubs balance sheet look healthier and more attractive to buy, I would be amazed if somebody of much greater wealth didn't become interested in owning a club like Villa.
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The signs seem to indicate he wants to sell, but that doesn't mean for certain that he does. Unlikely, but there could be genuine reasons as opposed to loss of interest as to why he hasn't been to any games yet this season.
I'd get off the fence, but I can't decide which side of it I want to be.
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I'm sure the Mirror story is true, and it ought to be. Not just for us but for 98% of the other clubs too.
If people think there are multi-billionaires still out there who are daft enough to still want to invest in football then dream on. The timing is not right for anyone at the moment.
No-one can compete with the wealth of Abu Dhabi and what they're ploughing into Man City.
Anyone tempted will surely hold fire for a few years. Apart from seeing how their own wealth suffers in the forecasted financially depressing years ahead, you'd think they'd want to see how the Premier League itself copes with the next few years and a poor economy. They might also want to wait and see how long Abu Dhabi retains its interest in Manchester.
Big cuts have to made. What is the point of having a league where the only people who will be able to afford to go and watch it will be the players themselves? Or should I say the players who aren't even good enough to get in the team!
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I'm sure the Mirror story is true, and it ought to be. Not just for us but for 98% of the other clubs too.
If people think there are multi-billionaires still out there who are daft enough to still want to invest in football then dream on. The timing is not right for anyone at the moment.
No-one can compete with the wealth of Abu Dhabi and what they're ploughing into Man City.
Anyone tempted will surely hold fire for a few years. Apart from seeing how their own wealth suffers in the forecasted financially depressing years ahead, you'd think they'd want to see how the Premier League itself copes with the next few years and a poor economy. They might also want to wait and see how long Abu Dhabi retains its interest in Manchester.
Big cuts have to made. What is the point of having a league where the only people who will be able to afford to go and watch it will be the players themselves? Or should I say the players who aren't even good enough to get in the team!
I was only reading the other day that the vast wealth of the Man City owners is not an isolated one and there are many of these people in the middle east with vast wealth to spend or invest in, and UK based sporting brands are ideal prospects, also went on to say that there are many many of these Russian oligarchs, again with huge enormous wealth to invest and always looking at the UK market to get into such as Football Clubs, that said your point about the state of these times i think is bang on.
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Americans are all talk, bullshit is in their blood - I can see some 'Randy out' banners around VP before Christmas.
I think we've seen the proof of their fleeting interest followed by a quick exit when the going got tough.
Semper Videlis - my arse.
All 300+ million of them? I think that may be an slight exaggeration.
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I'm sure the Mirror story is true, and it ought to be. Not just for us but for 98% of the other clubs too.
If people think there are multi-billionaires still out there who are daft enough to still want to invest in football then dream on. The timing is not right for anyone at the moment.
No-one can compete with the wealth of Abu Dhabi and what they're ploughing into Man City.
Anyone tempted will surely hold fire for a few years. Apart from seeing how their own wealth suffers in the forecasted financially depressing years ahead, you'd think they'd want to see how the Premier League itself copes with the next few years and a poor economy. They might also want to wait and see how long Abu Dhabi retains its interest in Manchester.
Big cuts have to made. What is the point of having a league where the only people who will be able to afford to go and watch it will be the players themselves? Or should I say the players who aren't even good enough to get in the team!
I was only reading the other day that the vast wealth of the Man City owners is not an isolated one and there are many of these people in the middle east with vast wealth to spend or invest in, and UK based sporting brands are ideal prospects, also went on to say that there are many many of these Russian oligarchs, again with huge enormous wealth to invest and always looking at the UK market to get into such as Football Clubs, that said your point about the state of these times i think is bang on.
Yeah, there are so many of them, that Bill Kenwright hasn't been able to sell Everton, despite trying to do so for years.
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Perhaps they're all still queueing round the block to buy Liverpool (wink).
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Perhaps they're all still queueing round the block to buy Liverpool (wink).
Liverpool have already been bought by very rich people (double wink)
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Paulie, I'm just surprised you now think there aren't many billionaires willing to invest in football after your previous talk of loads of them queueing up to do so.
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Americans are all talk, bullshit is in their blood - I can see some 'Randy out' banners around VP before Christmas.
I think we've seen the proof of their fleeting interest followed by a quick exit when the going got tough.
At the Fulham game, at the beginning of the season, their Chairman walked round the pitch at the start of the game and waved to all their fans, with a Fulham scarf around his neck. No matter how some may see this, I think that it was a demonstration that he valued their support and that he was actually interested in the club.
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I've heard over the last couple of months and increasingly over the last few days or so that there is a massive financial crisis brewing. People have referred to it on other threads on here. I know about the General's new job and that he might not have the time or opportunity to keep up a forum presence, but isn't it possible thatin Randy's case, the reason Randy's not been in evidence for a few weeks this season is connected at least to this situation and its impact upon his business and his investments, including Villa and doing his best to manage all of his interests within the context of this global financial problem?
In this case the man can't be everywhere and I've no doubt that he is in constant contact with his CEOs whilst he works hard to stabilize and assure the future of his various responsibilities.
I think the phrase 'we were here before them and we will be here long after they have gone' has been mentioned before.
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I don't know what interest Randy still has in MBNA but I understand they are in financial melt down and seeking an urgent sale of their entire credit book. However possible buyers are only willing to pay a fraction of the value.
Yes MBNA are in difficulty, what we dont know is how much of the purchase by BofA was deffered 9and subject to future performance) and how much was in BofA shares.
It is not a big stretch to conclude that the problems with BofA and MBNA is having a detrimental impact on RL personla fortunes.
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The Lerners' received 2.5 billion dollars worth of B of A shares and 300 million dollars in cash (for MBNA).
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The Lerners' received 2.5 billion dollars worth of B of A shares and 300 million dollars in cash (for MBNA).
That's plenty for the type of midfield general we need!
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The Lerners' received 2.5 billion dollars worth of B of A shares and 300 million dollars in cash (for MBNA).
That's plenty for the type of midfield general we need!
Ha ha
His sister inherited half of it as I understand ( just in case I'm marginally wrong).
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The money was split between the family and the trust fund.
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Just read this, so a few thoughts/opinions:-
1. Even if the article is true - no quotes, not even a 'source close to the club' - then I doubt they know any actual numbers.
2. Natural wastage of the likes of Cuellar, Heskey & Beye will go a long way to this.
3. Based on a 25-man squad, then £46k a week is still an annual wagebill of almost £60m a year.
4. The onus on our youth, who will be on less money, will also make this a more natural move.
5. One drawback is that this surely creates a wage ceiling for us, which man hinder the signing of top players and the retention of our own.
I don't think what Randy is trying to do is wrong, but I do think it makes his manager's job harder. Not impossible, just that we need to be much more efficient in who the wages go to and what we get back for them!
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Whilst I think the club is essentially strong at the core with great potential, I do believe Randy is looking to sell. I expected or at least wasnt suprised with plans of stripping back but the speed of it has been amazing.
I agree with Risso that large amounts of money has been wasted but its pointless me dredging that up again so there you go. That's where we are. It still almost worked but now its back to the drawing board and a plan for youth development and very careful spending, which I'm not unhappy about as I think thats how it should be done anyway.
The communication with the powers that be is now abyssmal and our vast (as a %) floating support is voting with its feet as a result. Its unneccessarily incompetent to the point of negligence.
I'm not depressed or concerned about the future of Aston Villa but I'd like to know what the board are thinking at least. Our only line was through the General and that's gone. Our CEO is hopeless and our chairman makes the Yeti look like an attention whore.
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I may be in the minority here, but I'm not convinced on the whole 'Randy wants to sell' theory. I may not be as knowledgeable of the finances as some on here, but for me every pound he adds to the clubs value by stripping another expensive player off the wagebill should detract from the club's value by way of average attendance and potential league placing.
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It is not a big stretch to conclude that the problems with BofA and MBNA is having a detrimental impact on RL personla fortunes.
I think this as well. The 5 year performance of Bank of America's (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BAC#symbol=bac;range=5y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;)share price is rather interesting. Or scary, if by chance you had suddenly acquired $billions worth a few years ago and then sat on them. They're now only worth about 10% of what they were 5 years ago. I hope they diversified their shareholdings.
The family's investment in Aston Villa has performed rather better, I'd say. If RL sold, I'm guessing that he'd at least get his money back.
Would he want to sell Villa, though?
He charges us a decent rate of interest on our debt and his management company charges the club pretty exorbitant fees (£7-8m p.a.) from memory. Answer? I just don't know. Personally, I still prefer him to the previous chap, though.
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I feel depressed about our future.We've set our stall out to be a feeder club to the top 4/6.Even if our youth players achieve their potential they'll be sold on-all for the right price of course.You could argue that the players wanted to leave but so did Modric and he's still at Spurs who have a very strong chance of making top 4 again
The lack of ambition by the board is frightening if they're not arsed anymore you can hardly expect the floating supporter to be.I am pleased at least that we have a Manager that does appears to give a shit whether he's good enough remains to be seen
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Paulie, I'm just surprised you now think there aren't many billionaires willing to invest in football after your previous talk of loads of them queueing up to do so.
No, I said someone would always be there to buy a club like Liverpool, which is exactly what happened.
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Whilst I think the club is essentially strong at the core with great potential, I do believe Randy is looking to sell. I expected or at least wasnt suprised with plans of stripping back but the speed of it has been amazing.
I agree with Risso that large amounts of money has been wasted but its pointless me dredging that up again so there you go. That's where we are. It still almost worked but now its back to the drawing board and a plan for youth development and very careful spending, which I'm not unhappy about as I think thats how it should be done anyway.
The communication with the powers that be is now abyssmal and our vast (as a %) floating support is voting with its feet as a result. Its unneccessarily incompetent to the point of negligence.
I'm not depressed or concerned about the future of Aston Villa but I'd like to know what the board are thinking at least. Our only line was through the General and that's gone. Our CEO is hopeless and our chairman makes the Yeti look like an attention whore.
Pretty much agree with all of that Maz. It's a shame that Randy didn't test the water in England with a much smaller club first before buying us, as I think that a decent manager given the amounts to spend that O'Neill had, would, with our youth set up, still have a decent chance of the top 4, Man City or no Man City. I'm sure Lerner has learned from his mistakes, but the trouble is having put all of his eggs in the O'Neill basket, is now out of cash to spend on us. If only he'd dispensed of O'Neill when I first suggested it! ;)
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Does anyone seriously think he is looking to sell? This is exactly the way the Browns have been run for years, he shows no signs of selling up there.
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I feel depressed about our future.We've set our stall out to be a feeder club to the top 4/6.Even if our youth players achieve their potential they'll be sold on-all for the right price of course.You could argue that the players wanted to leave but so did Modric and he's still at Spurs who have a very strong chance of making top 4 again
The lack of ambition by the board is frightening if they're not arsed anymore you can hardly expect the floating supporter to be.I am pleased at least that we have a Manager that does appears to give a shit whether he's good enough remains to be seen
Zoggy, I think there is ambition, but not the funds to supplement it.
Who knows what Randy is thinking or doing, what is apparent is that he's not going to games any more and his right hand man has seemingly abandoned us.
I assume that the board are doing their daily jobs and obviously updating Randy on everything that's going on or not going on, but there is a deafening silence which is making fans anxious - the longer this goes on, I fear the more the anxiety will spread.
Myself, I want to keep going to VP with adrenaline pumping through my veins and if we win. lose or draw come away knowing that the lads tried 100%.
AM is a decent manager, we'l see how he's supported rather than making judgements, but silence isn't golden when you're running a Prem football club like Villa where the fans want inclusion at least and success if possible.
I've spent most of my life living in hope and continue to do so.
UTV
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I don't see Randy's name on this list, hopefully he got out whilst the going was good:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=BAC+Major+Holders
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Whilst I think the club is essentially strong at the core with great potential, I do believe Randy is looking to sell. I expected or at least wasnt suprised with plans of stripping back but the speed of it has been amazing.
I agree with Risso that large amounts of money has been wasted but its pointless me dredging that up again so there you go. That's where we are. It still almost worked but now its back to the drawing board and a plan for youth development and very careful spending, which I'm not unhappy about as I think thats how it should be done anyway.
The communication with the powers that be is now abyssmal and our vast (as a %) floating support is voting with its feet as a result. Its unneccessarily incompetent to the point of negligence.
I'm not depressed or concerned about the future of Aston Villa but I'd like to know what the board are thinking at least. Our only line was through the General and that's gone. Our CEO is hopeless and our chairman makes the Yeti look like an attention whore.
Pretty much agree with all of that Maz. It's a shame that Randy didn't test the water in England with a much smaller club first before buying us, as I think that a decent manager given the amounts to spend that O'Neill had, would, with our youth set up, still have a decent chance of the top 4, Man City or no Man City. I'm sure Lerner has learned from his mistakes, but the trouble is having put all of his eggs in the O'Neill basket, is now out of cash to spend on us. If only he'd dispensed of O'Neill when I first suggested it! ;)
I don't think it would've made much of a difference, Risso, unless we got a BETTER manager. And managers better then MON are usually only after the very top jobs. We spent to the level where we had a chance, but didn't quite make it. With the youth players now emerging we might be able to get back up there with less spend 2nd time around, but that would still be more than we presently seem willing/able to spend.
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I believe all the worries (real or imagined) concerning the club's direction are exacerbated by a lack of communication from the highest level. RL cannot possibly be unaware of the the fears that so many fans have and, whereas I used to admire him for not being a rentagob, his silence now is baffling and disingenuous, as the Chinese whispers currently clogging up the forums are certainly unsettling and liable to be used for "Villa Fans Up in Arms" type headlines at any time. A clear statement about his plans (and not just financial plans) would calm a lot of this speculation down.
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The thing that gets me is that Faulkner is almost as anonymous as Randy. OK, if the owner doesn't like the limelight then fair enough, but you compensate for that with a chief executive who does and is both media savvy and experienced.
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The thing that gets me is that Faulkner is almost as anonymous as Randy. OK, if the owner doesn't like the limelight then fair enough, but you compensate for that with a chief executive who does and is both media savvy and experienced.
Hardly fair on the bloke that. He is still learning his times tables.
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The thing that gets me is that Faulkner is almost as anonymous as Randy. OK, if the owner doesn't like the limelight then fair enough, but you compensate for that with a chief executive who does and is both media savvy and experienced.
Like the ones at Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United for example? Without looking it up, name all six.
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The thing that gets me is that Faulkner is almost as anonymous as Randy. OK, if the owner doesn't like the limelight then fair enough, but you compensate for that with a chief executive who does and is both media savvy and experienced.
Like the ones at Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United for example? Without looking it up, name all six.
David Gill (united) Bruce Buck (Chelsea) no idea since Dein at Arse.
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Does anyone seriously think he is looking to sell? This is exactly the way the Browns have been run for years, he shows no signs of selling up there.
I do think he is considering it or at least courting investment. He'd be a fool not to as his investment in Aston Villa will be for nothing otherwise if we stagnate.
Something has changed. I dont know what it is but somethIng has happened behind the curtains. It could be financial, it most probably is in fact as I doubt Randy is all of a sudden uninterested. He doesn't strike me as a fickle sort. I do honestly believe he has the best interests of the club at heart but has made mistakes by not having the right football people around him. I believe this was crucial. One man was given free reign and was not the right man. Whilst I respect MON as a manager, if you're going to appoint somebody to play Tyrant with your footballing empire make sure he's the right man because all your eggs are in one basket. MON was probably a man to work under this man, not be it himself. That's just my opinion.
I think with the money that was there to spend at the time, the plans in place, somebody like Hiddink should have been approached.
Still, we're not talking about an autopsy here. The club is doing O.K. McLeish is doing O.K. There's going to be a period of rebuilding where the fans who feel betrayed with the perceived lack of ambition and investment come trickling back (as long as things continue to stabilise and improve) and if we can keep our academy ticking over as it has been or better, there are definitely good times ahead whoever is in charge.
As for potential suitors, presuming it could be on the cards. Aston Villa is in a good position. Unlike Everton for instance, we are the biggest club for a huge distance. There are so many things going for us in that regard. Location, prestige, facilities..etc. If somebody was to look for a club in this league as a project to take on we'd have to be up there. Hicks and Gillette wanted Villa before Liverpool apparently. Randy had the opportunity to buy Liverpool. Groups were looking at Villa that weren't really interested in other clubs that were available at the time.
Still, there are a lot of gobshites out there who could be disasterous. I dont want to see naff adverts of Villa players stuffing their face full of chicken or being whisked of to god knows where for a PR stunt after a run of awful results.
I think Randy has done a lot for Villa and deserves respect for that and if he stays in control he has my support.
But I wouldn't be suprised if he was thinking about selling or even actively seeking buyers or investors.
All I really want is more communication and perhaps more footballing nous on the board.
As for the Browns. Randy may love Villa but his family are rooted in the Browns. I very much doubt he'd sell up even if he wanted to. It meant so much to his old man.
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Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".
I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions.
Your debating style gets worse by the day. I didn't even mention Beye, so to suggest that the money I was talking about being wasted was only on him, and then telling me to get some perspective based on your completely incorrect interpretation is ridiculous. You're either being dim or setting yourself up as the new Coopers Injury to get a reaction.
Oh come off it, you're just deflecting now. You've often been way over the top in your choice of language but each post now seems an attempt to outdo your previous efforts. I'd expect to see phrases like "most hideous and wanton manner imagineable" in a debate about war or famine not a football clubs transfer policy.
The truth is some money was well spent, some less so. The overall amount was, in my view, not enough considering where we started from to put us in a position where finishing sixth could be classed as a major underachievement.
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The thing that gets me is that Faulkner is almost as anonymous as Randy. OK, if the owner doesn't like the limelight then fair enough, but you compensate for that with a chief executive who does and is both media savvy and experienced.
Like the ones at Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United for example? Without looking it up, name all six.
David Gill (united) Bruce Buck (Chelsea) no idea since Dein at Arse.
One out of three.
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Aint bad.
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Groups were looking at Villa that weren't really interested in other clubs that were available at the time.
And remembering who, that's the scary thing.
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Groups were looking at Villa that weren't really interested in other clubs that were available at the time.
And remembering who, that's the scary thing.
Sir Nicholas Padfield QC
Michael (Nice Semi In Solihull) Neville
Bryan Richardson
A consortium lead by Sven
George Gillette!
A Consortium lead by Dave Ismay.
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The thing that gets me is that Faulkner is almost as anonymous as Randy. OK, if the owner doesn't like the limelight then fair enough, but you compensate for that with a chief executive who does and is both media savvy and experienced.
Like the ones at Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United for example? Without looking it up, name all six.
It's no about being famous or appearing on Sky Sports News every day, but rather about being the public face, voice and personality of our club and it's owner to OUR fans. I couldn't care less whether he is known to fans of other clubs, hence I don't really get what your point is?
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Paulie, I'm just surprised you now think there aren't many billionaires willing to invest in football after your previous talk of loads of them queueing up to do so.
No, I said someone would always be there to buy a club like Liverpool, which is exactly what happened.
Clubs in that 2nd tier on the otherhand, such as Everton go wanting.
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The thing that gets me is that Faulkner is almost as anonymous as Randy. OK, if the owner doesn't like the limelight then fair enough, but you compensate for that with a chief executive who does and is both media savvy and experienced.
Like the ones at Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United for example? Without looking it up, name all six.
It's no about being famous or appearing on Sky Sports News every day, but arther about being the public face, voice and personality of our club and it's owber to OUR fans. I couldn't care less whether he is known to fans of other clubs, hence I don't really get what your point is?
Clubs don't exist in a bubble. We know more about others now than we ever did, so if their employees are well-known to their own supporter,s chances are that they'll be well-known to others. The CEOs of the three most successful clubs of the past twenty years aren't. That's the point.
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What do we want them to say? If, for instance, Faulkner issued a statement to oldie saying Randy wasn't looking to sell, half us would dismiss it as bullshit. If he says the ambition is still there he'll get don't tell us, show us thrown at him. What could they say that would satisfy most of us? That's a genuine question, I dislike bring in the dark as much as the rest of you but am at something of a loss to think what it is they might say.
They do hold the regular Supporter Consultation Groups but little seems to get publicised. Perhaps they need to make more of those.
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Faulkner may get more flak than he deserves, I honestly dont know. But it's his responsibility to make somebody communicate with us. And when the owner and chairman are as elusive as Randy (which is his prerogative) the onus is on the CEO to pick up the slack.
To my mind, that has not happened or is not happening.
I also think it's a factor in dropping the attendance by a few thousand. Which if nothing else is costing the club money.
It's... cack.
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Clubs don't exist in a bubble. We know more about others now than we ever did, so if their employees are well-known to their own supporter,s chances are that they'll be well-known to others. The CEOs of the three most successful clubs of the past twenty years aren't. That's the point.
I'd imagine every Villa fan can, or at least should be able to, name our chief executive. I'd be very surprised if fans of other clubs, certainly those outside the Midlands area, would know the name Paul Faulkner. Why? Becuase it's of no interest to them. I've probably read the names of the guys of at the clubs you mentioned dozens of times this year alone in the papers or heard them mentioned/interviewed on tele, yet I would not recall them as they simply do not interest me. I'd imagine the same of Faulkner no matter how much, how regularly or how well he communicates with us.
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Clubs don't exist in a bubble. We know more about others now than we ever did, so if their employees are well-known to their own supporter,s chances are that they'll be well-known to others. The CEOs of the three most successful clubs of the past twenty years aren't. That's the point.
I'd imagine every Villa fan can, or at least should be able to, name our chief executive. I'd be very surprised if fans of other clubs, certainly those outside the Midlands area, would know the name Paul Faulkner. Why? Becuase it's of no interest to them. I've probably read the names of the guys of at the clubs you mentioned dozens of times this year alone in the papers or heard them mentioned/interviewed on tele, yet I would not recall them as they simply do not interest me. I'd imagine the same of Faulkner no matter how much, how regularly or how well he communicates with us.
You expect someone to be very well-known to us, but not to anyone else? I think that's a bit unlikely. I do agree that we need to sharpen up the PR, but we had one central figurehead before and look where that got us. We should also maybe remember that during the days when Randy was being lionized, one of the things he was congratulated for was his low media profile. It might appear a bit of a volte face to now say he should be in the press all the time. Besides, as Chris says, what could he or anyone else say that wouldn't be picked to pieces?
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What do we want them to say? If, for instance, Faulkner issued a statement to oldie saying Randy wasn't looking to sell, half us would dismiss it as bullshit. If he says the ambition is still there he'll get don't tell us, show us thrown at him. What could they say that would satisfy most of us? That's a genuine question, I dislike bring in the dark as much as the rest of you but am at something of a loss to think what it is they might say.
They do hold the regular Supporter Consultation Groups but little seems to get publicised. Perhaps they need to make more of those.
I've always been a big fan of honesty. I believe fans could accept most things if you shoot straight with them.
If the plan is tighten the belt and trust in the youth for a few years or trim off the fat and spend again or get the club in a position to sell, be out with it. Saying nothing is only a sign of indifference and disinterest. It leaves too much room to fill the blanks in and Brummies tend to do that in the most miserable fashion.
What was the last thing of note we had? A thinly veiled sarcastic "fuck off, we know what we're doing, you dont" when McLeish (a massively unpopular appointment only likely to inflame the support) was appointed. It required a very good explanation and we didnt get one. It didnt go down well. It was very poor communication.
And since the communication has pretty much stopped completely apart from stomach churning propaganda on pravda where everything is super this and cassy that (please Mr Paul Brown, just fucking stop it).
A few fans group meetings are all well and good but they're not that frequent and only a handful can attend. It doesn't cut it.
Like I say, let us know the score and we can deal with it, possibly even embrace it.
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Clubs don't exist in a bubble. We know more about others now than we ever did, so if their employees are well-known to their own supporter,s chances are that they'll be well-known to others. The CEOs of the three most successful clubs of the past twenty years aren't. That's the point.
I'd imagine every Villa fan can, or at least should be able to, name our chief executive. I'd be very surprised if fans of other clubs, certainly those outside the Midlands area, would know the name Paul Faulkner. Why? Becuase it's of no interest to them. I've probably read the names of the guys of at the clubs you mentioned dozens of times this year alone in the papers or heard them mentioned/interviewed on tele, yet I would not recall them as they simply do not interest me. I'd imagine the same of Faulkner no matter how much, how regularly or how well he communicates with us.
You expect someone to be very well-known to us, but not to anyone else? I think that's a bit unlikely. I do agree that we need to sharpen up the PR, but we had one central figurehead before and look where that got us. We should also maybe remember that during the days when Randy was being lionized, one of the things he was congratulated for was his low media profile. It might appear a bit of a volte face to now say he should be in the press all the time. Besides, as Chris says, what could he or anyone else say that wouldn't be picked to pieces?
I think Faulkner is well known, or at least as well known to non-Villa fans as other club's men are to us, and Randy is well known aswell. But my point is that should one, the chairman, be a bit of a recluse, the onus is on his chief executive to be more vocal than he has been.
It's not about getting more famous - it's about getting more involved with the media/PR elements of the job. More interviews in papers, etc. That won't make Man Utd fans know who he is anymore than we know their CEO, but it will make the club have more of a public face to the fans.
As for what he should be saying, that's a difficult one for me. In truth I think the damage is done now as any reassuring words would be untrusted, yet had we been seeing and hearing from him more regularly since he was in the job it'd be a more 'business as usual' feel as opposed to the 'damage limitation/get the fans back onside' exercise it would now be percieved as.
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Paulie, I'm just surprised you now think there aren't many billionaires willing to invest in football after your previous talk of loads of them queueing up to do so.
No, I said someone would always be there to buy a club like Liverpool, which is exactly what happened.
Clubs in that 2nd tier on the otherhand, such as Everton go wanting.
Precisely, but Percy is missing off the fact that I said there would always be people wanting to buy Liverpool - which is the club we were specifically talking about.
If he's implying I said there were plenty of billionaires queuing up to invest in football, then he's massively wide of the mark - I said nothing of the sort.
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Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".
I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions.
Your debating style gets worse by the day. I didn't even mention Beye, so to suggest that the money I was talking about being wasted was only on him, and then telling me to get some perspective based on your completely incorrect interpretation is ridiculous. You're either being dim or setting yourself up as the new Coopers Injury to get a reaction.
Oh come off it, you're just deflecting now. You've often been way over the top in your choice of language but each post now seems an attempt to outdo your previous efforts. I'd expect to see phrases like "most hideous and wanton manner imagineable" in a debate about war or famine not a football clubs transfer policy.
The truth is some money was well spent, some less so. The overall amount was, in my view, not enough considering where we started from to put us in a position where finishing sixth could be classed as a major underachievement.
As usual, that's complete bollocks from you. I said that we've wasted a large amount of money, and whether you agree or not, to try and paint as that as some somment about Habib Beye is utterly childish, stupid and downright ridiculous, which is par for the course for you these days. If we havaen't wasted such mo much money, particularly on high wages for underperforming and rubbish players, why is that we're now undergoing a period of austerity that makes George Osborne look like Father Christmas?
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It is funny how with the Cleveland Browns, the suggestion of a change to the colour of the strip has distracted some fans from criticism of the team/club. I wonder if that would work with us.
Just putting that out there.
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Clubs don't exist in a bubble. We know more about others now than we ever did, so if their employees are well-known to their own supporter,s chances are that they'll be well-known to others. The CEOs of the three most successful clubs of the past twenty years aren't. That's the point.
I'd imagine every Villa fan can, or at least should be able to, name our chief executive. I'd be very surprised if fans of other clubs, certainly those outside the Midlands area, would know the name Paul Faulkner. Why? Becuase it's of no interest to them. I've probably read the names of the guys of at the clubs you mentioned dozens of times this year alone in the papers or heard them mentioned/interviewed on tele, yet I would not recall them as they simply do not interest me. I'd imagine the same of Faulkner no matter how much, how regularly or how well he communicates with us.
You expect someone to be very well-known to us, but not to anyone else? I think that's a bit unlikely. I do agree that we need to sharpen up the PR, but we had one central figurehead before and look where that got us. We should also maybe remember that during the days when Randy was being lionized, one of the things he was congratulated for was his low media profile. It might appear a bit of a volte face to now say he should be in the press all the time. Besides, as Chris says, what could he or anyone else say that wouldn't be picked to pieces?
Isn't it Phil Mepham's job?
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http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/WhosWho
Phil Mepham went a while ago I think, it's Russell Jones these days.
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
Exactly what is his background does anyone know? I have asked this loads of times before.
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
Risso, I think he's doing what he's told.
To Randy he appears to be a 'safe pair of hands' - a 'better the devil you know' appointment if you like.
I agree, he represents us as CEO without a football CV, and it seems that he's learning on the job which is not good at all.
He needs a Sir GT with him, someone who knows the game, the industry inside out.
To Villa, marketing is the signs around the ground, the emails, the ST packs, the shirt prices etc, it's not about the football side of things I don't think, and yes, we do need that.
We also need a 'voice' - someone who communicates with the media, good or bad news.
Not every day of the week, but on a regular enough basis for us to know where we are, what the plans are.
Simple things like the lack of corner screen were communicated twice; The Gen said it was down due to a redevelopment of the corner of the ground while Faulkner says it's down because its low graphics and being aesthetically wrong.
Which is it ?
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
Exactly what is his background does anyone know? I have asked this loads of times before.
This is PF's CV :-
Chief Executive
Aston Villa Football Club
Privately Held; Sports industry
May 2010 – Present (1 year 6 months)
Chief Operating Officer
Aston Villa Football Club
Privately Held; Sports industry
May 2008 – April 2010 (2 years)
Relationship Manager
MBNA
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; BAC; Banking industry
1999 – 2004 (5 years)
Education
University of Cambridge
MA, History
1997 – 2000
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This is PF's CV :-
Chief Executive
Aston Villa Football Club
Privately Held; Sports industry
May 2010 – Present (1 year 6 months)
Chief Operating Officer
Aston Villa Football Club
Privately Held; Sports industry
May 2008 – April 2010 (2 years)
Relationship Manager
MBNA
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; BAC; Banking industry
1999 – 2004 (5 years)
Education
University of Cambridge
MA, History
1997 – 2000
So it looks suspiciously like he went straight from university to be a customer care manager at MBNA, and from there to Villa. He's no more experience or suitability for the job than that airhead Mansfield Town appointed a couple of weeks back.
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
Darren Bent springs to mind. Both the signing and how we went about it.
His biggest failiure, IMO, was the MON thing and not seeing the issues during summer 2010 and acting on them.
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This is PF's CV :-
Chief Executive
Aston Villa Football Club
Privately Held; Sports industry
May 2010 – Present (1 year 6 months)
Chief Operating Officer
Aston Villa Football Club
Privately Held; Sports industry
May 2008 – April 2010 (2 years)
Relationship Manager
MBNA
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; BAC; Banking industry
1999 – 2004 (5 years)
Education
University of Cambridge
MA, History
1997 – 2000
So it looks suspiciously like he went straight from university to be a customer care manager at MBNA, and from there to Villa. He's no more experience or suitability for the job than that airhead Mansfield Town appointed a couple of weeks back.
I reckon he is the guy off that bank advert a few years by, you know the one that took great joy filling the machine with cash before proclaiming 'it's not all work, work, work.'
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Risso, your George Osborne studied modern history at university and has no experience in finance yet he's Chancellor of the Exchequer.
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
To Villa, marketing is the signs around the ground, the emails, the ST packs, the shirt prices etc, it's not about the football side of things I don't think, and yes, we do need that.
I hate my profession being brought down to some nice signs, a few e-mails and season ticket packs!
As the product that the Villa sells is football, the marketing IS about the football side of things, its about the strategic marketing of a football club, which covers the finances, players and pretty much everything about the club.
[Which it appears has not been good]
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As usual, that's complete bollocks from you. I said that we've wasted a large amount of money, and whether you agree or not, to try and paint as that as some somment about Habib Beye is utterly childish, stupid and downright ridiculous, which is par for the course for you these days. If we havaen't wasted such mo much money, particularly on high wages for underperforming and rubbish players, why is that we're now undergoing a period of austerity that makes George Osborne look like Father Christmas?
You just can't help yourself, can you? I make that a "complete", an "utterly" and a "downright" topped off by your usual hyperbole in the final line.
I used Beye merely as an example but we'd have had to spend all of the money on Anne Widdecombe to justify the kind of language you used.
That's my stance; you lessen your argument and polarise the debate by over egging a point. Few things are "totally", "absolutely" or "completely". You're not the only one and I know I've done similar myself in the past but it seems to be more and more common on the site these days and I think it makes it harder to discuss things sensibly.
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Risso, your George Osborne studied modern history at university and has no experience in finance yet he's Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Exactly. How's that working out?!
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As usual, that's complete bollocks from you. I said that we've wasted a large amount of money, and whether you agree or not, to try and paint as that as some somment about Habib Beye is utterly childish, stupid and downright ridiculous, which is par for the course for you these days. If we havaen't wasted such mo much money, particularly on high wages for underperforming and rubbish players, why is that we're now undergoing a period of austerity that makes George Osborne look like Father Christmas?
You just can't help yourself, can you? I make that a "complete", an "utterly" and a "downright" topped off by your usual hyperbole in the final line.
I used Beye merely as an example but we'd have had to spend all of the money on Anne Widdecombe to justify the kind of language you used.
That's my stance; you lessen your argument and polarise the debate by over egging a point. Few things are "totally", "absolutely" or "completely". You're not the only one and I know I've done similar myself in the past but it seems to be more and more common on the site these days and I think it makes it harder to discuss things sensibly.
When it comes to discussing your posts, "complete" followed by "bollocks" isn't over egging the point at all.
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Are you playing RissoBingo Chris? :)
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
To Villa, marketing is the signs around the ground, the emails, the ST packs, the shirt prices etc, it's not about the football side of things I don't think, and yes, we do need that.
I hate my profession being brought down to some nice signs, a few e-mails and season ticket packs!
As the product that the Villa sells is football, the marketing IS about the football side of things, its about the strategic marketing of a football club, which covers the finances, players and pretty much everything about the club.
[Which it appears has not been good]
Let's be completely honest, the 'product' has been shit for years despite the large amounts of money spent. Until we get lucky with a decent manager, further investment is just a continuation of the 'pearls to pigs' strategy. There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.
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I used Beye merely as an example but we'd have had to spend all of the money on Anne Widdecombe to justify the kind of language you used.
You didn't use Beye as an "example" at all, this what you actually said:
"Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".
I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions."
You phrased your post as if it was Beye I had specifically mentioned. If I had, yes then it would have been over the top, but as we were talking about Lerner's total spend since taking over, then it is clear that we have wasted absolute fortunes, as even the General and the General's son have stated publicly. Beye is but one example of the overall poor use of funds by O'Neill, such as buying the likes of Cuellar and Davies, then replacing them shortly after, buying Sidwell, buying Harewood, buying Shorey, paying Heskey £65K a week and so on.
In wages and signing on fees, Harewood by himself cost us £10m, and if that isn't a hideous waste of money in anybody's language, then you moust eat swan liver paté with pickled larks' tongues for lunch.
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There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.
That depends of whether you class the 'product' as the results or the style of play.
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There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.
That depends of whether you class the 'product' as the results or the style of play.
Brighton is a good example.
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Faulkner was Randy's assistant basically, as opposed to upcoming CEO of a middle size sports business. I don't see anything on his CV that makes him qualified to manage a business of Villa's size. I may be wrong but I guess it's more likely Randy trusts him to carry out his orders when he isn't around.
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There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.
That depends of whether you class the 'product' as the results or the style of play.
Both are important but most important is what happens at Villa Park. A wonderful away record does little for the coffers if we're crap at Villa Park.
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I used Beye merely as an example but we'd have had to spend all of the money on Anne Widdecombe to justify the kind of language you used.
You didn't use Beye as an "example" at all, this what you actually said:
"Blimey, now buying "Beye" is money wasted in the most "hideous and wanton manner imaginable".
I agree it was a poor signing but some perspective please. There's an increasing tendency to overstate arguments with hyperbolic language and the result is polarised and unproductive discussions."
You phrased your post as if it was Beye I had specifically mentioned. If I had, yes then it would have been over the top, but as we were talking about Lerner's total spend since taking over, then it is clear that we have wasted absolute fortunes, as even the General and the General's son have stated publicly. Beye is but one example of the overall poor use of funds by O'Neill, such as buying the likes of Cuellar and Davies, then replacing them shortly after, buying Sidwell, buying Harewood, buying Shorey, paying Heskey £65K a week and so on.
In wages and signing on fees, Harewood by himself cost us £10m, and if that isn't a hideous waste of money in anybody's language, then you moust eat swan liver paté with pickled larks' tongues for lunch.
You're nit picking to evade the point.
All I am saying is for the sake of grown up debate that I think you should consider moderating (geddit) your choice of words a little. I'm not arguing that some money was spent unwisely (not that we're unique in that) just that over the top language turns a straightforward discussion into something more emotive.
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Just a point on the Browns.
From what I understand, owning an NFL team is a pure money making thing, you could lose every game an still make a profit each year.
So that's abit different to owning a football team where they lose money every year. So he'd sell Us before them surely. (correct me if I'm wrong guys)
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
To Villa, marketing is the signs around the ground, the emails, the ST packs, the shirt prices etc, it's not about the football side of things I don't think, and yes, we do need that.
I hate my profession being brought down to some nice signs, a few e-mails and season ticket packs!
As the product that the Villa sells is football, the marketing IS about the football side of things, its about the strategic marketing of a football club, which covers the finances, players and pretty much everything about the club.
[Which it appears has not been good]
Let's be completely honest, the 'product' has been shit for years despite the large amounts of money spent. Until we get lucky with a decent manager, further investment is just a continuation of the 'pearls to pigs' strategy. There's plenty of clubs with better 'product' that haven't had the kind of investment that we have enjoyed.
And as an aside, the ST packs were a waste of money.Nice as there were, all fans really want is their ST delivered on time in an envelope !
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I certainly don't want a sticker for my seat and a buy 12 get one free voucher for teas.
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Just a point on the Browns.
From what I understand, owning an NFL team is a pure money making thing, you could lose every game an still make a profit each year.
So that's abit different to owning a football team where they lose money every year. So he'd sell Us before them surely. (correct me if I'm wrong guys)
The NFL is regulated and run a lot better than the premier league, resulting in a more exciting product for fans, a much more competitive league and good investments for owners.
I'd love to see a salary cap introduced into football, it would really benefit the game. Its never going to happen though. Clubs like Man United and Citeh have FAR too much influence and power for that to come to fruition.
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Faulkner's lack of communication wih the fans is but one of many shortcomings. I struggle to think of anything that has gone right since he became chief executive. When you have an inexperienced owner giving jobs to his friends regardless of their suitability for the position, in my expereince it's not a recipe for success.
Darren Bent springs to mind. Both the signing and how we went about it.
His biggest failiure, IMO, was the MON thing and not seeing the issues during summer 2010 and acting on them.
That should have seen the writing on the wall and made contingency plans in May 2010 when MON started making negative noises. Instead they buried their collective heads in the sand and hoped for the best.