Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: UsualSuspect on May 09, 2011, 10:24:52 AM
-
After 5 years at the Club we are in a worse position financially than when RL arrived and areas far away as we have ever been from being a side challenging for the top 4.
After approx. £150 million spent on transfers do you think RL will keep throwing good money after bad or think he would get rid if he could find a buyer?
Personally I want him to stay but surely he has to be wondering what the hell he has got himself into
-
I'm sure it must have crossed his mind to get rid.
It could have all been so different, but i'm afraid Randy backed the wrong horse (twice).
-
After 5 years at the Club we are in a worse position financially than when RL arrived and areas far away as we have ever been from being a side challenging for the top 4.
After approx. £150 million spent on transfers do you think RL will keep throwing good money after bad or think he would get rid if he could find a buyer?
Personally I want him to stay but surely he has to be wondering what the hell he has got himself into
We've had one bad season out of 4. I think he'll put it down to experience and continue to do what he has been.
-
I'm glad Randy is at the helm like Olney has said one bad season we will be ok next season.
-
I have major misgivings about next season
1,. GH & GM could still be at the club
2. AY will be gone and possibly Downing & NRC
3. Too many players need to be replaced- Petrov, Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Beye, Pires, Warnock, Young
That's half a side gone
-
I have major misgivings about next season
1,. GH & GM could still be at the club
2. AY will be gone and possibly Downing & NRC
3. Too many players need to be replaced- Petrov, Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Beye, Pires, Warnock, Young
That's half a side gone
Yes, but not a very good one.
-
I have major misgivings about next season
1,. GH & GM could still be at the club
2. AY will be gone and possibly Downing & NRC
3. Too many players need to be replaced- Petrov, Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Beye, Pires, Warnock, Young
That's half a side gone
Yes, but not a very good one.
Totally agree Dave, but are we going to have the nous and funds available to get in 10 players??
-
My main worry is that a new manager comes in with a clean slate and decides to give that rabble a second chance.
-
Whatever happens at the top, whoever stays or goes, an overhaul is inevitable. And thank god too because things are very stale.
-
I have major misgivings about next season
1,. GH & GM could still be at the club
2. AY will be gone and possibly Downing & NRC
3. Too many players need to be replaced- Petrov, Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Beye, Pires, Warnock, Young
That's half a side gone
Yes, but not a very good one.
Totally agree Dave, but are we going to have the nous and funds available to get in 10 players??
not a very good one?!?! Didnt they have one of our most successful seasons last year for the best part of a decade?
-
I have major misgivings about next season
1,. GH & GM could still be at the club
2. AY will be gone and possibly Downing & NRC
3. Too many players need to be replaced- Petrov, Heskey, Dunne, Collins, Beye, Pires, Warnock, Young
That's half a side gone
Yes, but not a very good one.
Totally agree Dave, but are we going to have the nous and funds available to get in 10 players??
not a very good one?!?! Didnt they have one of our most successful seasons last year for the best part of a decade?
There very predictable, easy to know what there going to do and exploit. Keep Downing, NRC, sell young to the highest bidder, bring in some young (ish) but proven players. Bring in a new management, again young, but proven in the premiership, David Moyes would be perfect!
As to the original question, one bad season only. Not where RL wanted to be im sure. Im also sure he'll stick at it, make it right and make us a force again.
-
not a very good one?!?! Didnt they have one of our most successful seasons last year for the best part of a decade?
And also one of the worst. They're obviously not up for the fight unless MON's there to mollycoddle them, so get rid.
-
I listened to the BBC world football phone in the other day and they had an american expert on as a pundit, largely because of the changes at Arsenal. He talked about each american owner (of a premiership club) and he was adamant that the best guy was Randy Lerner.
-
I listened to the BBC world football phone in the other day and they had an american expert on as a pundit, largely because of the changes at Arsenal. He talked about each american owner (or a premiership club) and he was adamant that the best guy was Randy Lerner.
I like the sound of that.
-
Randy's son absolutely loves the Villa so I don't see him selling up any time soon.
-
Randy is doing a great job and it is vital for our club he get the management and club activity right this summer. We get it right we can catch up and overtake or we will struggles for long time.
-
shouldnt" the Funeral bell " thread be merged with this one, as that is what as happend to the five year plan, it is dead.
-
shouldnt" the Funeral bell " thread be merged with this one, as that is what as happend to the five year plan, it is dead.
It never existed.
-
shouldnt" the Funeral bell " thread be merged with this one, as that is what as happend to the five year plan, it is dead.
It never existed.
It did, except MON spent 5 years worth of money in the first 4 years and missed the bit of the plan where we got into the Champions League.
-
There was never such a thing as a 5 year plan.
-
Doom merchants going into a blind panic because we havent had one continual upward curve of progress in line with a plan that never actually existed.
-
shouldnt" the Funeral bell " thread be merged with this one, as that is what as happend to the five year plan, it is dead.
It never existed.
Really? Someone should have told General Krulak.
-
It was a throwaway remark made by Richard Fitzgerald in an interview he gave. A soundbite if you will.
-
It was a throwaway remark made by Richard Fitzgerald in an interview he gave. A soundbite if you will.
I see.
General Krulak:
3. carlitobrigante: yes, we do have a well thought out 5 year plan...and had one from the beginning. Yes, we have had to make alterations to it due to a number of factors...some of which you mentioned. Still, we feel we are pretty much on schedule. The issue of attendence is a wild card right now. We need fans to come out and cheer the lads on...without fans, cheering the lads, we can't expect our lads to achieve all that is necessary.
General Krulak here:
3. Tim the Villan: I will take another stab at this. We are doing very well against the 5 year plan!!
.
2. Champions League football and Barry: Sooooo? If you believe he has a point, you should be happy for him if he leaves. I believe, if I am not mistaken, that one of the goals of the 5 year plan was CL football. Let me see if I understand...you don't think we will make it???? OK. Good on you. That means I won't have to hear your moaning because you have already made up your mind.
He must have been confused.
-
I suppose I could've posted this in the Transfer Thread amongst others, but thought I'd put it in here -
I think that this season of transition that everyone is talking about is going to be a couple of seasons.
Like it or not there is major surgery needed on this squad, with at most 5/6 players good enough to mount a challenge for a Top 4 place. (Bent, Young & Downing are Top 4 quality, Agbonlahor, Cuellar and Clark aren't far short and with the likes of Makoun, Bannan, Albrighton needing more game time to get used to the Premiership). In the summer we're more than likely going to lose Young and Cuellar, with the possibility of Downing going too. So just getting a decent first XI together is going to be hard work, let alone a squad. And even if by some miracle we were to do that they would need time to gel.
In many respects we need to rip up the plans from the past 3/4 years and now it's time to start all over again.
-
I listened to the BBC world football phone in the other day and they had an american expert on as a pundit, largely because of the changes at Arsenal. He talked about each american owner (of a premiership club) and he was adamant that the best guy was Randy Lerner.
I listen to that too on Podcast - I've emailed in a question for him about Randy for when he is next on. (Also a question about JPA too).
-
The 5 year plan was ripped up the second MON left as the board wanted to go in a different direction e.g. start trusting more of the young players to play, improve the scouting network etc.
-
The 5 year plan was ripped up the second MON left as the board wanted to go in a different direction e.g. start trusting more of the young players to play, improve the scouting network etc.
Create a scouting network, you mean, we didn't have one previously.
-
It was a throwaway remark made by Richard Fitzgerald in an interview he gave. A soundbite if you will.
I see.
General Krulak:
3. carlitobrigante: yes, we do have a well thought out 5 year plan...and had one from the beginning. Yes, we have had to make alterations to it due to a number of factors...some of which you mentioned. Still, we feel we are pretty much on schedule. The issue of attendence is a wild card right now. We need fans to come out and cheer the lads on...without fans, cheering the lads, we can't expect our lads to achieve all that is necessary.
General Krulak here:
3. Tim the Villan: I will take another stab at this. We are doing very well against the 5 year plan!!
.
2. Champions League football and Barry: Sooooo? If you believe he has a point, you should be happy for him if he leaves. I believe, if I am not mistaken, that one of the goals of the 5 year plan was CL football. Let me see if I understand...you don't think we will make it???? OK. Good on you. That means I won't have to hear your moaning because you have already made up your mind.
He must have been confused.
Yes, he must.
-
Know more about the plans of the board than the General, do you, Dave?
-
The five year plan...did this ever exist?
"I don't know where it came from...you can't have a plan as such because no-one can anticipate what's going to happen with other clubs."
Care to guess who said that?
-
It would appear he's just feeding us a bunch of bullshit that varies depending on his mood then.
-
It's one thing to have a plan. It's quite another to know where you've put it.
-
I believe one of the reasons Houllier was appointed was for his champions league experience which made me think Randy was still confident of challenging for it this season. After this seasons meltdown we can safely say the five year plan is dead in the water.
-
Doesn't matter if we had a plan or not, he gave the wrong man the money and now we're paying for it. Well randy is. If only you could rewind time 5 years and get back the 100m. ah well....
-
I believe one of the reasons Houllier was appointed was for his champions league experience which made me think Randy was still confident of challenging for it this season. After this seasons meltdown we can safely say the five year plan is dead in the water.
I think the main reason Houllier was appointed was because, in the first few weeks of the season, the list of other possible candidates was absolutely pathetic, and, whilst it was clearly a shit appointment, I think we sometimes forget this when looking back.
Bob Bradley? Curbishley. Sven?
*shudder*
-
I believe one of the reasons Houllier was appointed was for his champions league experience which made me think Randy was still confident of challenging for it this season. After this seasons meltdown we can safely say the five year plan is dead in the water.
I think the main reason Houllier was appointed was because, in the first few weeks of the season, the list of other possible candidates was absolutely pathetic, and, whilst it was clearly a shit appointment, I think we sometimes forget this when looking back.
Bob Bradley? Curbishley. Sven?
*shudder*
The bookmaking industry had this list on the day O'Neill left.
1. Curbishley A 3/1
2. BIlic S 6/1
3. McClaren S 8/1
4. Moyes D 12/1
5. Shearer A 12/1
6. Davies B 16/1
7. Houillier G 16/1
8. Klinnsmann J 16/1
9. Di Matteo R 16/1
10. Smith W 20/1
11. Jol M 20/1
12. Hoddle G 25/1
13. Dublin D 50/1
14. Gray A 66/1
15. Morley Tony 200/1
-
It is the names that linger the longest which are the more significant.
On the day he left, that list would have been chucked together by some trader with a page to fill. As time passed, the prices would have started to follow the money.
-
I didn't really buy into the '5 year plan' to be honest. In that time we've gone from nowhere to competitive, then back again. In the main i think we've made progress and that does come at a price. Everyone realises this season is a write off, and therefore who we bring in this summer and our performances next season will tell us more about where we really are.
-
You can not plan for five years in football, because you get things like Man City happening, and throwing a gigantic spanner in the works. Closer to home, you get things like O'Neill flouncing off at zero notice, too.
There are far too many random elements to throw into play.
A five year objective is one thing, and something we should have. Any plan to achieve it would have to be very, very general indeed.
-
. Everyone realises this season is a write off, and therefore who we bring in this summer and our performances next season will tell us more about where we really are.
Correct
-
It is the names that linger the longest which are the more significant.
On the day he left, that list would have been chucked together by some trader with a page to fill. As time passed, the prices would have started to follow the money.
That market had been running for some time.
-
It is the names that linger the longest which are the more significant.
On the day he left, that list would have been chucked together by some trader with a page to fill. As time passed, the prices would have started to follow the money.
That market had been running for some time.
You just said it was the day O'Neill left.
That is not some time, and that market would have taken bugger all money at that point.
If you mean the market was running before he left, then that's of pretty much zero import anyway, as his departure would have meant the market starting afresh in any case
-
You can not plan for five years in football, because you get things like Man City happening, and throwing a gigantic spanner in the works. Closer to home, you get things like O'Neill flouncing off at zero notice, too.
There are far too many random elements to throw into play.
A five year objective is one thing, and something we should have. Any plan to achieve it would have to be very, very general indeed.
Not sure I agree.
There's no point knowing where you want to end up if you don't know how to get there. You can't plan for a Man City so there's no point trying. Instead, you just concentrate on what you can do and I genuinely think that's what the board have done so far by investing in the training set up, the corporate hospitality, the matchday experience, and most importantly the players.
Unfortunately all this was buggered up by appointing the wrong manager in le Gaffeur. Hopefully he hasn't done so much damage that the next manager can't quickly get us back on track.
-
It is the names that linger the longest which are the more significant.
On the day he left, that list would have been chucked together by some trader with a page to fill. As time passed, the prices would have started to follow the money.
That market had been running for some time.
You just said it was the day O'Neill left.
That is not some time, and that market would have taken bugger all money at that point.
If you mean the market was running before he left, then that's of pretty much zero import anyway, as his departure would have meant the market starting afresh in any case
No it wouldn't. Lots of bookies run markets on the next permanent manager of football clubs. We've had one running for months. Moyes is evens at the moment.
-
It is the names that linger the longest which are the more significant.
On the day he left, that list would have been chucked together by some trader with a page to fill. As time passed, the prices would have started to follow the money.
That market had been running for some time.
You just said it was the day O'Neill left.
That is not some time, and that market would have taken bugger all money at that point.
If you mean the market was running before he left, then that's of pretty much zero import anyway, as his departure would have meant the market starting afresh in any case
No it wouldn't. Lots of bookies run markets on the next permanent manager of football clubs. We've had one running for months. Moyes is evens at the moment.
Yes, it would.
You might run a market on the next manager of a football club in perpetuity, but the incumbent manager resigning unexpectedly means that the market is going to look very different very quickly.
Here's Betfair's take on it the day after MON left, for example:
Current USA coach Bob Bradley is the favourite to take over at Villa Park and is trading at 4.0 whilst the perennial candidate on any next manager market, Sven Goran Eriksson, is 9.2. Former Spurs and Germany star Jurgen Klinsmann, who was in charge of his national team at the 2006 World Cup, trades at 9.6. Former Middlesbrough player and manager Gareth Southgate, who enjoyed a lengthy spell at Villa Park as a player, is currentlly available at 12.5.
Note how they have Bradley as favourite, and he isn't even mentioned in VD's list. A market like that will take time to settle as it builds up, so the snapshot of prices on the day MON left isn't really of much import compared to how the market moved over the following weeks.
-
I wish i knew what point you were trying to make.
-
Anyone who thinks the managers with jobs like Moyes would have jumped ship to take over us a week into the season are mental frankly. You'd have to be a complete bastard to do that to your club.
-
Anyone who thinks the managers with jobs like Moyes would have jumped ship to take over us a week into the season are mental frankly. You'd have to be a complete bastard to do that to your club.
Well I for one would be distraught if football became the kind of industry where individuals acted in their own self-interest above that of the team they were serving at any given time and I don't know how you could have any respect for a club that employed such a cad.
-
Not everyone's MON. Managers will always leave if they get a better offer but just before the first match after they've spent the last 2 months getting the team ready and spending the chairman's money? nah. maybe wrong but i can't think of an example in the premiership.
-
Downing won't go this year and the only reason Villa may sell Young is they will get nothing for him if they don't. The right manager in the right circumstances can make a big difference just look at Liverpool since KD took over, the same players but playing under a very strong personality and a nasty bastard to boot. I like Houlliers vision of how he wants us to play but most of our players have very average skill levels and not capable of playing that way. Every business has a long term stratedgy whether it be three,five or ten years, doesn't mean it always works out.
-
Whatever plans Randy may have had in his head when he took over would have been blown out the water by the takeover at Man City. Who could have predicted that someone would come into the Premier League who would make even Abramovich seem like a two-bit market trader?
-
Whatever plans Randy may have had in his head when he took over would have been blown out the water by the takeover at Man City. Who could have predicted that someone would come into the Premier League who would make even Abramovich seem like a two-bit market trader?
If he was scared off by Man City it would never have worked anyway. We were on 64 points at this stage of last season.
-
I wish i knew what point you were trying to make.
ill try to simplify it sufficiently for you to grasp.
what you described as how "the bookmaking industry" (but will no doubt turn out to be the first result google gave you) saw the field of contenders on the day your saviour left is largely meaningless as an indicator of the candidates we could realistically expect to find a manager from.
The market would have been reacting to a sudden change (departure of aforementioned messiah that same day) and barely any money would have been punted on it at that point. You'd largely be looking at a list of obvious names thrown together by a trader at that point.
If you are going to use what bookies said as am indicator of the pool we were fishing in, them the way the market moved over those weeks is a far better indicator than the day the market snapped into life.
I'd ask you to explain what point you were trying to make, but I think I can guess. Would out be "we had plenty of options, look at what the bookies said" by any chance?
-
Whatever plans Randy may have had in his head when he took over would have been blown out the water by the takeover at Man City. Who could have predicted that someone would come into the Premier League who would make even Abramovich seem like a two-bit market trader?
If he was scared off by Man City it would never have worked anyway. We were on 64 points at this stage of last season.
It's not a question of being scared off by them, but the limitless wealth they now have access to means that any plans we would have had of finishing top four were made a hell of a lot harder.
-
Stalin invented 5-year plans and most who started out in year one were not there anymore in year five bar Stalin.
We are in year five now. Another false start looking for anothe MoN
People die waiting for the outcome. What does RL want? We can't all go to the permafrost regions hoping it will all be ok upon return. I'm thawing out after the last 30 year plan.
Get out there and breed more kids who will join the party and avoid the the Gulag years.
Randy is not a dictator but he is our leader who distributes the dosh that may bring the desired rewarded.
What will they give us next season? The first of another five years before we are happy re-patriated Tartars? Who do they think they are dealing with? How patient can a fan be?
Who pays the wages? Who pays the way?
Who gives the wherewithal that is the lifeblood of the club?
RL is the antithesis of all above..show us the silver Randy..show us the gold
"The Eagle flies on Friday and Saturday I go out to play"..T-Bone Walker
It's our money Randy. We give it to you..we are the Eagle; the coin that spins on Friday..and we want to come out and play. Saturday is our day Randy..we have the rest of the week to earn the money we give, and donate, generously for that moment for that moment of limited excellence; Saturday when it is all realised and there on the park in front of us...
Randy better have a good answer for next season..cos the last season and the past 5 year plan has been shite overall bar some of the good bits in between.
In fact the past six 5-year plans have been equally shite, thinking about it.
I want one now to tell the youngsters that it has not all been exploitative rubbish for as long as I can remember. I want to say the Villa were always great and worth the effort.
-
Citeh don't come into it really. we were on course for qualifying the season before last and there wasn't much citeh could do about it., just needed to keep playing as we were. And then we we bought Heskey...... that was the chance and we blew it spectacularly. Was downhill fast from then on.
-
I wish i knew what point you were trying to make.
ill try to simplify it sufficiently for you to grasp.
what you described as how "the bookmaking industry" (but will no doubt turn out to be the first result google gave you) saw the field of contenders on the day your saviour left is largely meaningless as an indicator of the candidates we could realistically expect to find a manager from.
The market would have been reacting to a sudden change (departure of aforementioned messiah that same day) and barely any money would have been punted on it at that point. You'd largely be looking at a list of obvious names thrown together by a trader at that point.
If you are going to use what bookies said as am indicator of the pool we were fishing in, them the way the market moved over those weeks is a far better indicator than the day the market snapped into life.
I'd ask you to explain what point you were trying to make, but I think I can guess. Would out be "we had plenty of options, look at what the bookies said" by any chance?
You need to have a lie down. I just copied in the odds list that was posted on here at the time O'Neill left.
I've completely lost track of the multiple certainties and narratives that you and people like tonto are trying to maintain. I'm sorry if I break your train of thought but there really isn't any need for this kind of nonsense.
-
I wish i knew what point you were trying to make.
ill try to simplify it sufficiently for you to grasp.
what you described as how "the bookmaking industry" (but will no doubt turn out to be the first result google gave you) saw the field of contenders on the day your saviour left is largely meaningless as an indicator of the candidates we could realistically expect to find a manager from.
The market would have been reacting to a sudden change (departure of aforementioned messiah that same day) and barely any money would have been punted on it at that point. You'd largely be looking at a list of obvious names thrown together by a trader at that point.
If you are going to use what bookies said as am indicator of the pool we were fishing in, them the way the market moved over those weeks is a far better indicator than the day the market snapped into life.
I'd ask you to explain what point you were trying to make, but I think I can guess. Would out be "we had plenty of options, look at what the bookies said" by any chance?
What a crock of shite
-
I wish i knew what point you were trying to make.
ill try to simplify it sufficiently for you to grasp.
what you described as how "the bookmaking industry" (but will no doubt turn out to be the first result google gave you) saw the field of contenders on the day your saviour left is largely meaningless as an indicator of the candidates we could realistically expect to find a manager from.
The market would have been reacting to a sudden change (departure of aforementioned messiah that same day) and barely any money would have been punted on it at that point. You'd largely be looking at a list of obvious names thrown together by a trader at that point.
If you are going to use what bookies said as am indicator of the pool we were fishing in, them the way the market moved over those weeks is a far better indicator than the day the market snapped into life.
I'd ask you to explain what point you were trying to make, but I think I can guess. Would out be "we had plenty of options, look at what the bookies said" by any chance?
What a crock of shite
Ohh.
You've put him to the sword there Austin, AKA George Bernard Shaw.
-
Citeh don't come into it really. we were on course for qualifying the season before last and there wasn't much citeh could do about it., just needed to keep playing as we were. And then we we bought Heskey...... that was the chance and we blew it spectacularly. Was downhill fast from then on.
I have to agree. It was the time to have speculated on Bent or somebody just as good. It was the difference.
Losing Laursen as the motivator was also a major factor as Barry was unwilling or unable to lead the team on the pitch when we needed it.
-
Buying Heskey was the final nail in the coffin as far as having confidence in O'Neill went for me. After the disaster of Harewood, that was one shit transfer too far, at a time when as Mazrim says, we needed goals in the team.
-
Buying Heskey was the final nail in the coffin as far as having confidence in O'Neill went for me. After the disaster of Harewood, that was one shit transfer too far, at a time when as Mazrim says, we needed goals in the team.
Compounded by that fact that Arsenal bought Arshavin at the same time, who had an immediate impact.
-
Whether there was officially a five-year plan or not, the first four years were going pretty well - then it spectacularly blew up. As others have said, you can have as much of a long-term strategy as you like but there are always likely to be extra factors you can't legislate for: Man City's sudden emergence, for example, which saw us lose a key player to them in successive summers.
Now, in terms of league position, we're back where we started in May 2006. Albeit with a stronger squad - if we make the right choices I don't see why we can't go right back to challenging for top six again next season.
-
It's true that you can't control what other teams do, but you should still plan to make the best of the resources you do have.
-
We had a foot on Arsenal's throat, but it was Heather Mills' foot and they just unstrapped it without too much trouble. Then, as we were standing there aghast at the rudeness of it all, David Moyes came up and pulled our pants down.
All for the love of a Tumbling Bear that should never have been disturbed from it's Wigan slumber.
Fuck you, Martin "Grizzly Adams" O'Neill.
-
Buying Heskey was the final nail in the coffin as far as having confidence in O'Neill went for me. After the disaster of Harewood, that was one shit transfer too far, at a time when as Mazrim says, we needed goals in the team.
Compounded by that fact that Arsenal bought Arshavin at the same time, who had an immediate impact.
As I recall it, Arsenal actually signed Arshavin in February 8)
As to the 5 year plan, I'd say we were OK up to a point, but where we, and if all honesty MON, failed was the use of the funds in that summer 2009 window. What we did was buy a few players who had little or no impact as opposed to one or two who would have a bigger say. Effectively a smaller squad (no difference as he didn't use it) but with one more player on the Milner/Ash/Downing level and I think we could have gotten 4th.
Now I think it all starts again as we're in need of better financial balance and a greater emphasis on youth and scouting to make up for that. So maybe it's a case of enjoying the ride and seeing where we are in 2015?
-
After this season with 4 different people in charge, I'd hesitate to draw up a 5 month plan in place if i was RL
-
Buying Heskey was the final nail in the coffin as far as having confidence in O'Neill went for me. After the disaster of Harewood, that was one shit transfer too far, at a time when as Mazrim says, we needed goals in the team.
Looking at the two transfers in isolation, I could at least see why he might want Heskey - as a back up to Carew, maybe - there was at least some logic to it.
I couldn't even begin to see what made him snatch Marlon Harewood from the clutches of Wigan, though.
-
thing with Ivanhoe, he wasn't just not very good when he arrived, but he seemed to disrupt the whole style of play of the rest of the team. MON's Asprilla.....
-
thing with Ivanhoe, he wasn't just not very good when he arrived, but he seemed to disrupt the whole style of play of the rest of the team. MON's Asprilla.....
Except Asprilla was a blinding player
-
Our problem with Harewood was not moving him on soon enough. His first season lead to some decent showings off the bench and that helped us to 6th, but that was all he had. Similar to Zat Knight he should have been used as a stepping stone and then sold.
-
we couldn't move Harewood on. MON had put him on such high wages that anyone who might have wanted him was put off. See our current squad for more examples of MON's salary fuckwittery
-
Our problem with Harewood was not moving him on soon enough. His first season lead to some decent showings off the bench and that helped us to 6th, but that was all he had. Similar to Zat Knight he should have been used as a stepping stone and then sold.
Hmm, well, I'd rather we'd steered clear of him totally. For a club hoping to break the CL and needing firepower up front, Marlon was never in a million years going to be much use.
re the error in not moving him on, isn't the board's wish to do that with a host of other rubbish, expensive players the very thing that is getting them stick from some quarters at the moment?
-
we couldn't move Harewood on. MON had put him on such high wages that anyone who might have wanted him was put off. See our current squad for more examples of MON's salary fuckwittery
Wasn't Marlon on something like £27,500 a week? Hardly OTT by modern standards.
-
For a club hoping to break the CL and needing firepower up front, Marlon was never in a million years going to be much use.
We had just finished 11th when we signed him. But as I said earlier once we did become that perenial 6th placed team that was when he needed moving on and better brought in.
-
We could have done far better than Harewood at the time. Especially with the money we were throwing about on salaries.
-
we couldn't move Harewood on. MON had put him on such high wages that anyone who might have wanted him was put off. See our current squad for more examples of MON's salary fuckwittery
Wasn't Marlon on something like £27,500 a week? Hardly OTT by modern standards.
over 30k i heard. You only have to look at where he ended up. Blackpool had no transfer fee to pay and he still only got 20k a week, which is about his level
-
Anyway, where is this 5 year plan? Does anyone have a copy?
-
For a club hoping to break the CL and needing firepower up front, Marlon was never in a million years going to be much use.
We had just finished 11th when we signed him. But as I said earlier once we did become that perenial 6th placed team that was when he needed moving on and better brought in.
He was never good enough in the first place, which is why he was on his way to Wigan from West Ham when we bought him.
It's all well and good saying he had some impact off the bench, but it wasn't much of an impact, and didn't O'Neill pretend he didn't exist for months after he came off the bench at Spurs to give them a penalty?
30k a week, say, for three years? so that's 5m in wages, plus 4.5m in fee with no sell on, so the best part of 10 million pounds Marlon cost us. In return we got 5 league goals.
I can't believe anyone doesn't think we've been wasteful with wages looking at figures like that.,
-
Anyway, where is this 5 year plan? Does anyone have a copy?
(http://www.freewebs.com/watchman4wales/chamberlain&paper.jpg)
-
Here's a copy:
5 Year plan. By R. Lerner.
Year 1 - Buy Villa.
Year 2 - ?
Year 3 - ?
Year 4 - ?
Year 5 - Success
-
Not quite gone to plan then.
-
Following an inglorious season, it will be interesting to see how the Board react to the situation.
Time and again the doomsayers find reasons to criticise the Board, time and again the prove the doubters wrong.
I'm sure they will again.
Next season is a great chance to start afresh with a plan that fits the changes that have happened within the PL since RL took over.
I'm sure he will meet the challenge again hopefully sooner than later.
As to the 5 year plan, if it ever existed in reality beyond a boardroom remit, I'm sure they could if pressed point to the many plus we have seen and justify many improvements across the club even if this latest season has been a mare from day one, even before Mon walked.
Remember many pointed to the lack of departures as one of Mon's reasons for leaving, seemingly he wanted the likes of Harewood, Carew, Ireland on high wages in the reserves as part of his plan. Didn't make sense but it looked like RL was willing to back him. Despite the innuendo, he left, he was not sacked.
-
For a club hoping to break the CL and needing firepower up front, Marlon was never in a million years going to be much use.
We had just finished 11th when we signed him. But as I said earlier once we did become that perenial 6th placed team that was when he needed moving on and better brought in.
He was never good enough in the first place, which is why he was on his way to Wigan from West Ham when we bought him.
It's all well and good saying he had some impact off the bench, but it wasn't much of an impact, and didn't O'Neill pretend he didn't exist for months after he came off the bench at Spurs to give them a penalty?
30k a week, say, for three years? so that's 5m in wages, plus 4.5m in fee with no sell on, so the best part of 10 million pounds Marlon cost us. In return we got 5 league goals.
I can't believe anyone doesn't think we've been wasteful with wages looking at figures like that.,
I don't rate him, didn't want him and agree it was a waste.
But my argument is that we had an emerging strike partnership of Carew and Gabby, who we were unable to better given out standing at the time. So a back-up was needed and for all these '£10m' figures quoted, £4.5m and circa £30k a week was unfortuantely the going rate. Yes, I'd rather have spent it on a better player, but to me it was a stop gap signing that lasted too long.
If we had sold him after a year/18 months, as I believe was the original intention, we would have got the majority of that £4.5m back and wahes would only have totalled around £2m-£2.5m. He'd then rate no more mention on here than Zat Knight.
-
For a club hoping to break the CL and needing firepower up front, Marlon was never in a million years going to be much use.
We had just finished 11th when we signed him. But as I said earlier once we did become that perenial 6th placed team that was when he needed moving on and better brought in.
He was never good enough in the first place, which is why he was on his way to Wigan from West Ham when we bought him.
It's all well and good saying he had some impact off the bench, but it wasn't much of an impact, and didn't O'Neill pretend he didn't exist for months after he came off the bench at Spurs to give them a penalty?
30k a week, say, for three years? so that's 5m in wages, plus 4.5m in fee with no sell on, so the best part of 10 million pounds Marlon cost us. In return we got 5 league goals.
I can't believe anyone doesn't think we've been wasteful with wages looking at figures like that.,
I don't rate him, didn't want him and agree it was a waste.
But my argument is that we had an emerging strike partnership of Carew and Gabby, who we were unable to better given out standing at the time. So a back-up was needed and for all these '£10m' figures quoted, £4.5m and circa £30k a week was unfortuantely the going rate. Yes, I'd rather have spent it on a better player, but to me it was a stop gap signing that lasted too long.
If we had sold him after a year/18 months, as I believe was the original intention, we would have got the majority of that £4.5m back and wahes would only have totalled around £2m-£2.5m. He'd then rate no more mention on here than Zat Knight.
I don't agree it was the going rate. 30k a week for a west ham reserve? He's a decent championship player and no Championship club would pay him 30k a week If he'd been brought in as a 1st teamer you could understand it, but it was pretty obvious he was only ever meant as back-up. Only thing i can say in MON's defence is maybe the Icelandic board had put him on ridiculous wages and he wasn't going to move unless we matched them. In that case, we should have passed on him.
-
we couldn't move Harewood on. MON had put him on such high wages that anyone who might have wanted him was put off. See our current squad for more examples of MON's salary fuckwittery
Wasn't Marlon on something like £27,500 a week? Hardly OTT by modern standards.
over 30k i heard. You only have to look at where he ended up. Blackpool had no transfer fee to pay and he still only got 20k a week, which is about his level
Nearly £5m in transfer fees, and £30K a week. Close to £10m of money out of the door on Marlon Harewood, which is OTT by any sane standard.
-
Nearly £5m in transfer fees, and £30K a week. Close to £10m of money out of the door on Marlon Harewood, which is OTT by any sane standard.
A bargain when compared to the £14.4m Heskey will have cost us.
-
we couldn't move Harewood on. MON had put him on such high wages that anyone who might have wanted him was put off. See our current squad for more examples of MON's salary fuckwittery
Wasn't Marlon on something like £27,500 a week? Hardly OTT by modern standards.
over 30k i heard. You only have to look at where he ended up. Blackpool had no transfer fee to pay and he still only got 20k a week, which is about his level
Nearly £5m in transfer fees, and £30K a week. Close to £10m of money out of the door on Marlon Harewood, which is OTT by any sane standard.
yep, and on just one player. Add in Davies, Beye, Sidwell, Ireland, Shorey, Heskey etc., and we'd have the funds for a major spending spree this summer. For your own sanity, tt's best not to think about it for too long
-
I bet you could find similar or even worse examples at every large PL club. It's just modern PL football isn't it?
-
Central midfield Randy/ M'ON bought Petrov (8 mill), NRC (8.5 mill), Ireland (8 mill), Delph (8 mill), Sidwell (5 mill), Salifou (1 mill), yet the 2 best centre mids we have had in the last 5 years were converted wingers, one inherited, and even after Houllier spent another 6 mill on Makoun and bought in Bradley and Pires we are left with Petrov and NRC as our 1st choice pair. This was not good enough at any time over the last 4/5 years, as we could only get away with one of them and a Barry/ Milner, so it certainly shouldn't be good enough in year 5.
-
Nearly £5m in transfer fees, and £30K a week. Close to £10m of money out of the door on Marlon Harewood, which is OTT by any sane standard.
A bargain when compared to the £14.4m Heskey will have cost us.
-
Wasn't much made, earlier in the season, of the fact that no Blackpool player earned more than 10k a week?
I bet that was a comedown for Marlinho
-
Very good, Maz.
-
For a club hoping to break the CL and needing firepower up front, Marlon was never in a million years going to be much use.
We had just finished 11th when we signed him. But as I said earlier once we did become that perenial 6th placed team that was when he needed moving on and better brought in.
He was never good enough in the first place, which is why he was on his way to Wigan from West Ham when we bought him.
It's all well and good saying he had some impact off the bench, but it wasn't much of an impact, and didn't O'Neill pretend he didn't exist for months after he came off the bench at Spurs to give them a penalty?
30k a week, say, for three years? so that's 5m in wages, plus 4.5m in fee with no sell on, so the best part of 10 million pounds Marlon cost us. In return we got 5 league goals.
I can't believe anyone doesn't think we've been wasteful with wages looking at figures like that.,
The best one is Salifou and Beye
10 MILLION
-
I'm getting a bit woozy, here.
-
I'm getting a bit woozy, here.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Davies%2C_Curtis.jpg)
-
We had some use out of Davies though and, to be fair, I was happy we'd signed him.
But yes, another transfer that cant be viewed as anything other than misuse of resources.
-
Central midfield Randy/ M'ON bought Petrov (8 mill), NRC (8.5 mill), Ireland (8 mill), Delph (8 mill), Sidwell (5 mill), Salifou (1 mill), yet the 2 best centre mids we have had in the last 5 years were converted wingers, one inherited, and even after Houllier spent another 6 mill on Makoun and bought in Bradley and Pires we are left with Petrov and NRC as our 1st choice pair. This was not good enough at any time over the last 4/5 years, as we could only get away with one of them and a Barry/ Milner, so it certainly shouldn't be good enough in year 5.
Man Utd have just won the league with how manay millions spent of their central midfield (Carrick alone was £18m) and yet their best player in there was a converted winger who was a youth product.
The point being that sometimes the end justifies the means. OK, we didn't win the league, but we did win a lot of games and qualify for Europe under MON's methods.
-
For a club hoping to break the CL and needing firepower up front, Marlon was never in a million years going to be much use.
We had just finished 11th when we signed him. But as I said earlier once we did become that perenial 6th placed team that was when he needed moving on and better brought in.
He was never good enough in the first place, which is why he was on his way to Wigan from West Ham when we bought him.
The Dog Shit were after him as well and many on here were laughing about it.
When news broke that he was signing for us, he mysteriously became a great player all of a sudden.
It was the sort of signing I would have expected under Ellis and O'Leary.
Remember, at the time everybody was feverishly talking about Champions League, this was the first sign that we were not going to make the signings that would get us there.
-
Remember, at the time everybody was feverishly talking about Champions League, this was the first sign that we were not going to make the signings that would get us there.
Sorry, but who was talking about CL in a summer after finishing 11th?
-
I'm just posted on the summer transfer rumours a story on Taiwo and Mexes going to Milan on free transfers. The Serie A winners are obviously a very attractive proposition to most players, and I'm sure they're going to be well rewarded, but this still sounds like a good piece of business for Milan.
Based on this (http://www.rossoneriblog.com/2011/04/09/current-milan-wage-scale/) you would imagine that they would be on a maximum of around £4M (EUR4.5M) per year, perhaps with a signing on fee. Its still a lot of money, but compared to Harewood et al! I had been looking forward to some more calculated, incisive, transfer dealings from Le Gaffeur after MON, but it looks like its not to be.
-
Remember, at the time everybody was feverishly talking about Champions League, this was the first sign that we were not going to make the signings that would get us there.
Sorry, but who was talking about CL in a summer after finishing 11th?
Sorry, but many on here were talking about Champions League, the minute Randy took over.
-
I doubt that "get through 4 managers, spend most of the season locked in a relegation fight and give the impression to the outside world of a club that doesn't know its arse from its elbow" was on the agenda for year 5.
You can argue all day about share but the reality is that everyone from Randy down has to take some of the blame and along with it responsibility for ensuring that they all do better next season.
-
Remember, at the time everybody was feverishly talking about Champions League, this was the first sign that we were not going to make the signings that would get us there.
Sorry, but who was talking about CL in a summer after finishing 11th?
Sorry, but many on here were talking about Champions League, the minute Randy took over.
That's true.
But then Man City, with all their resources, have shown it takes time to get there.
-
You can argue all day about share but the reality is that everyone from Randy down has to take some of the blame and along with it responsibility for ensuring that they all do better next season.
I'd say that's about right.
-
Remember, at the time everybody was feverishly talking about Champions League, this was the first sign that we were not going to make the signings that would get us there.
Sorry, but who was talking about CL in a summer after finishing 11th?
Sorry, but many on here were talking about Champions League, the minute Randy took over.
That's true.
But then Man City, with all their resources, have shown it takes time to get there.
We were never going to get there quickly, but Marlon Harewood certainly wasn't going to help us get there.
We needed an out and out goalscorer at two important periods, O'Neill gave us Harewood and then Heskey.