Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: eastie on March 24, 2011, 10:15:03 AM
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latest mirror report on us-
Aston Villa fans are planning protests to force out their boss Gerard Houllier.
The Frenchman suffered abuse from supporters after last weekend’s 1-0 home defeat by Wolves left them just a point above the relegation places.
Villa’s owner Randy Lerner is standing by Houllier, who was only appointed last September.
But fans, who unveiled a “Houllier Out” banner before the Wolves game, now want more demonstrations.
A Facebook campaign called “Get Gerard Houllier Out” has over 500 members.
And Houllier, 63, faces a rough ride from fans travelling to Everton a week on Saturday and in the home game with Newcastle the following weekend.
Jonathan Fear, editor of Vital Villa website, said: “There has been lots of talk and calls for protests before the Newcastle game.
“And there will be all sorts up at Everton as well, I’m sure, if we don’t win.”
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Fed-up-Aston-Villa-fans-are-planning-protests-to-force-out-under-pressure-manager-Gerard-Houllier-article716669.html#ixzz1HVivzN5S
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Oh Jesus, the return of Fear.
Official spokesman of Villa supporters.
FUCK OFF WITH YOUR PROTESTS!
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I had an e-mail from Fear this morning. If I found out who gave him my address, that person will pay.
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what was the prat saying damon? bring a banner and lets all be a joke together?
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I had an e-mail from Fear this morning
Me too.
And about another dozen mails from other people I've never heard of.
Think I've broken the Delete key on my keyboard.
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I had an e-mail from Fear this morning. If I found out who gave him my address, that person will pay.
Ooops.
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Who is the Fear? And why does he think he speaks for us all?
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he's the peoples front of judea
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The worst part of our club going through bad times is all the fucking self publicists crawling out of the woodwork.
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Who is the Fear? And why does he think he speaks for us all?
He is a mystical warlock who feasts on pork scratchings and despair. Be afraid.
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Wow. A protest. What a lot of good that will do for our current situation.
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a better article from their website-
Aston Villa fans are fuming at Gerard Houllier and appear to be holding him solely to blame for the club's woes this season after the shocking defeat to Wolves.
The Frenchman will admit to errors during his controversial reign, but it is certainly not entirely his fault that Villa may now be relegated.
The club's underperforming players also deserve considerable criticism for their short-comings on the pitch and their attitude off it.
Houllier has bitten his lip and refused to let rip at anyone, bar a few mild criticisms of a couple, like Stephen Ireland and John Carew, who have been shipped out.
Houllier cannot speak his mind right now because he needs to try to keep the likes of Richard Dunne and James Collins onside as he will need them in the run-in.
But make no mistake, Houllier has a blockbuster story to tell this summer as several players clearly have been undermining him almost from the moment he arrived in September.
The former Liverpool manager is no fool and knows his revolution at Villa has not gone down well with many of his squad, who have been forced to leave their comfort zone and start doing more in return for their astronomical wages.
So, undoubtedly, there are a lot of players at the club who would probably like him sacked tomorrow.
It is an unusual and worrying scenario and I can't help thinking the fact so many of Villa's players are overpaid has given them an inflated opinion of their own importance.
But the reality is players and manager are stuck with each other until the summer when all hell will break loose - whether Villa are relegated or not.
Just last week, Houllier spoke to the press before the Wolves game and I would urge Villa fans with a spare 18 minutes to listen to the audio below.
I think anyone who listens will be actually impressed by the honest way he handles the fall-out from Dunne and Collins' boozegate.
Houllier said a number interesting things - including highlighting the detailed information I got on the Champneys Spa bust-up with club staff .
But of more significance were his answers to several probing questions about whether the dressing room are still behind him.
And it was what Houllier didn't say which was most revealing.
Asked if there were 'dark forces' at work within the club, he replied: "I am not going to go into details."
The Villa manager was then asked whether there was a lack of respect by some players towards him, and why some had clearly questioned his authority.
He responded: "I have got my own opinion about that - maybe we can talk about that at the end of the season. It will be interesting and we can have maybe a half pint of beer!"
Once the dust has settled on Villa's campaign (and I genuinely hope they stay up) it will indeed be very interesting to hear exactly what, according to Houllier, has been going on at Bodymoor Heath.
The players' general perspective is known.
They don't like Houllier's rules, such as banning mobile phones and ordering certain people to move to homes closer to the club.
The players don't like having fewer days off than they had under Martin O'Neill.
The players don't like the club's no-nonsense fitness coach Robert Duverne, who clashed with Patrice Evra at last summer's World Cup while working for France.
The players don't particularly seem to enjoy assistant Gary McAllister's approach either.
Probably most crucially, the players don't seem to respect Houllier, despite his impressive CV and experience.
But, despite the squad's moaning, I think Houllier has been extremely badly treated by Villa's pampered squad, who are raking in £80million a year in salaries.
And when the time is right, he will come clean fully about Carew, Ireland, Dunne, Collins, Stephen Warnock, Habib Beye and all the other players he has clashed with.
It promises to be a fascinating insight and will provide the Frenchman with a ready-made excuse if his reign ends in relegation and the sack.
The way this car-crash of a season is going, as Villa lurch from one crisis to another, that is a distinct possibility.
But, assuming they do not soon sink like a stone to the foot of the Premier League, which will cause fans to go potty and make his position untenable, I think Houllier will be given time after being brought in, with owner Randy Lerner's firm backing, to change the club from top to bottom.
Houllier has a clear brief from Lerner to cut costs, promote youth, play football that's more entertaining and less one-dimensional and train the club's squad better.
So, I don't believe the club's hierarchy are about to fire him now after appointing him on a bumper contract just last September to try to win silverware while taking a completely different approach to predecessor O'Neill.
The signings of Darren Bent and Jean Makoun both look extremely promising and Houllier has some huge changes planned this summer, when the likes of Stiliyan Petrov, Dunne, Collins, Luke Young, Beye, Ashley Young and Warnock will surely go.
But if Villa do go down, then he will almost certainly be sacked.
Many people, myself included, are now beginning to fear the worst.
It promises to be a tough assignment to retain the club's top-flight status, because clearly many of the squad do not want Houllier in charge.
Perhaps, some of the squad don't even care about whether the club is relegated, as they are already making plans to move elsewhere.
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/james-nursey/Aston-Villa-players-not-Gerard-Houllier-deserve-blame-for-club-s-plight-James-Nursey-column-article716585.html#ixzz1HVlPOIjl
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I'm getting confused with what to write on my banner.
And the kids have run out of bed linen.
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This initiative (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42843.0) is at least positive (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_199433363412189#!/home.php?sk=group_199433363412189&ap=1).
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I actually think the atmosphere against Everton and Newcastle will be positive.
There, I've said it.
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Fucking thick bastards.
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I imagine wiki and pmk are both at b&q now getting their paint and brushes for this mind-blowing event!
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This positive support campaign better be good against the Geordies...
My eldest daughter is threatening to start supporting Spurs, and taking her to this game might be her last chance to redeem herself, because if she starts supporting Spuds then I am putting her into care.
Remember there is more at stake here than mere football so sing up!
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
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Well-balanced article.
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
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GH needs to decide if he is blaming the players or not. That article conveniently omits all the other managerial faux pas that GH has been involved in.
To me the buck stops with the manager, take the credit when things are going well, but also take the blame when things are going not so well. To point the finger at the players (rightly or wrongly) is lame and just highlights weak management, we still need these players until our fate is decided, also to do it in public is professional suicide.
How many PL managers publicly criticise and fall out with their players and squad as much as GH has done, i'm not sure if this is part of his agenda to reduce costs or just plain bad management.
the beatings will continue until morale improves..
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
All depends whether we can defend as a unit, whether our marauding wingers can make headway against the opposition, and whether our captain can marshall his troops. A big ask!
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
At the end of the day it's results that count and unless we're all singing from the same hymn sheet it will all end in tears.
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He's made his bed, and how he's got to lie in it. But at the end of the day we will be alright, because best things come to those who wait.
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you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems. Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa
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you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems. Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa
Who are you, and what have you done with Greg? ;)
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
GH should have sorted his bad apple(s) out when he first arrived. A stitch in time saves nine.
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
At the end of the day it's results that count and unless we're all singing from the same hymn sheet it will all end in tears.
It's time to grasp the nettle, i'll be over the moon if we can get a couple of good results, but sick as a parrot if we don't.
I think we need some blue sky thinking at Bodymoor Heath and we need to start pushing the envelope.
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Of course you are correct Greg, but I guess it's much easier to move a manager on and cut your losses than to move on 7 or 8 players - in an ideal world the players would go , but they are on such good wages we will have major problems unloading them.
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I've just had a look at this Vital Villa web site for the first time. It's absolute crap compared with this one and will definitely not be going into my favourites folder.
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I've just had a look at this Vital Villa web site for the first time. It's absolute crap compared with this one and will definitely not be going into my favourites folder.
Take a look at some of the shite in their Off Topic section.
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you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems. Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa
Although I agree in principal, I think this highlights his main fault as our manager.
A boss has to command respect and be seen as a true authority figure. That means that even if you don't agree with him, be it the type of training or where you're being played, you give it your best anyway out of fear more than anything. Basically, you know that if you cross him you're gonna lose so you toe the line.
This trait can come from a number of facets; respect for previous achievements, strength of personality, long tenure at the club. And it seems to me that Houllier has none of these.
The players have been awful to him, but they're only doing that as they think they can get away with it, which is because he's seen as a 'weak' manager. Let's not forget the likes of Dunne and Collins gave O'Neill no Hassle. Could that be because they liked his approach? Maybe, but they also knew that if they tried the shit they've done with Houllier they'd never see 1st team football again.
So my concern is that he can't command the respect of the modern professional and never will, which is why I think he should go.
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This trait can come from a number of facets; respect for previous achievements, strength of personality, long tenure at the club. And it seems to me that Houllier has none of these.
He's got the most important one in spades - the previous achievements, which are way in excess of Martin's.
If the players choose not to respect them, then fine, but you can hardly say it is because Houllier doesn't have that track record.
Also, it is far too easy to assume there were no problems between MON and players. I recall plenty of ostracised players, a story of him actually having a physical brawl with one player, and stories about players texting pictures of champagne bottles around when they'd heard he'd gone.
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I've just had a look at this Vital Villa web site for the first time. It's absolute crap compared with this one and will definitely not be going into my favourites folder.
Take a look at some of the shite in their Off Topic section.
Oh God. My eyes!
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well lets not forget that MON fell out with a hell of a lot of his players so i'm not sure this squad has ever been full of sweetness and light. The fact that his last action for the club was to arrange the transfer of the utter mental case Ireland doesn't exactly hint he could spot a balanced individual. Difference is they were "his" team by and large - Houllier is faced with senior players who know they're going to be moved on if the manager stays and frankly they don't care what damage they do to get him the push.
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This trait can come from a number of facets; respect for previous achievements, strength of personality, long tenure at the club. And it seems to me that Houllier has none of these.
He's got the most important one in spades - the previous achievements, which are way in excess of Martin's.
If the players choose not to respect them, then fine, but you can hardly say it is because Houllier doesn't have that track record.
Also, it is far too easy to assume there were no problems between MON and players. I recall plenty of ostracised players, a story of him actually having a physical brawl with one player, and stories about players texting pictures of champagne bottles around when they'd heard he'd gone.
That was my point - not that he hadn't won things, but rather that it seems not to register with the players. Maybe it's because it was a while ago?
The NRC thing aside everything else was gossip, so who knows really? There were unhappy players, as if you weren't in that elite 1st team squad you rotted (such as Davies), but even then did you we hear of them throwing coaches over tables or see them give the sort of gutless display we saw against Wolves? No, because like him or not they wouldn't cross him. And Houllier doesn't have that.
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Let's not forget the likes of Dunne and Collins gave O'Neill no Hassle.
Dunne and Collins were signed by O'Neill. He was here before them. This may sound simplistic, but it's much easier for players to question the authority of a new manager than one who has been around for years. Besides, if the James Nursey article is to be believed, Dunne and Collins' fondness of MON may stem from his application of the "90 minutes working week".
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well lets not forget that MON fell out with a hell of a lot of his players so i'm not sure this squad has ever been full of sweetness and light. The fact that his last action for the club was to arrange the transfer of the utter mental case Ireland doesn't exactly hint he could spot a balanced individual. Difference is they were "his" team by and large - Houllier is faced with senior players who know they're going to be moved on if the manager stays and frankly they don't care what damage they do to get him the push.
As I said to Paulie, the difference to me is not how liked he was or wasn't, but how respected/feared he was. No matter what they thought of him his teams always gave 110% on the pitch and that simply has not been the case with Houllier.
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It's obvious some players have been undermining Houllier from day one, most are paid far in excess of their ability and worth but unfortunately once enough players take a stand against a manager it become very difficult for him. He has tried to get the wankers out of the club. To say Houllier should have got rid of the troublemakers straight away is silly, he had no new players and then had the worst injury run in the clubs history and we have seen what happens when you just play kids.
I still believe there are too many players who believe they will not be at Villa Park next season to build any cohesion in the side.
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I remember Sorensen and Maloney both came out in the press and said how mon had treated them so badly , and there were a few others I'd expect- all managers have bust ups but the good ones keep them behind closed doors and don't hold grudges.
I expect There are some players that think the only way they will stay here next season is if the manager goes and it's very hard for a manager to get the best out of them in that situation.I remember Gregory saying once that during problems with collymore , stan once said apparently' im not going anywhere, you'll be gone before me'- the players hold most of the aces these days sadly I'm afraid to say.
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All smells very "clough at leeds" to me. Another man who probably alienated people unneccesarily but had a major player power problem. I just hope it doesn't follow the same course, as it didn't end very well for any of them
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All smells very "clough at leeds" to me. Another man who probably alienated people unneccesarily but had a major player power problem. I just hope it doesn't follow the same course, as it didn't end very well for any of them
Didnt jimmy armfield come in after clough was sacked and take leeds to the european cup final that season?
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All smells very "clough at leeds" to me. Another man who probably alienated people unneccesarily but had a major player power problem. I just hope it doesn't follow the same course, as it didn't end very well for any of them
Didnt jimmy armfield come in after clough was sacked and take leeds to the european cup final that season?
He did, but it was downhill from then on. See also Ron Saunders at Manchester City at the same time.
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All smells very "clough at leeds" to me. Another man who probably alienated people unneccesarily but had a major player power problem. I just hope it doesn't follow the same course, as it didn't end very well for any of them
Didnt jimmy armfield come in after clough was sacked and take leeds to the european cup final that season?
He did, but it was downhill from then on. See also Ron Saunders at Manchester City at the same time.
i think graham turner had similar problems but not quite so bad , in that he tried to change too much at once and broke up a decent team far too quickly , offloading many of the big established names.
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i think graham turner had similar problems but not quite so bad , in that he tried to change too much at once and broke up a decent team far too quickly , offloading many of the big established names.
Indeed, although he had help from Doug on that one.
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they reverted to type but the senior players who started the revolt were mostly over the hill. fact remains they were pretty much finished as a major force and were relegated by the 80's
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There were rumblings before he arrived that warnock, friedal and Carew had all had problems at previous clubs with him, so I imagine geds card was marked before he even got through the door.
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
At the end of the day it's results that count and unless we're all singing from the same hymn sheet it will all end in tears.
Spot on. End of. Let's hope we are reading from the same page. If we are we should be cooking on gas. We need to get back to the bread and butter of winning league games. The wall needs to do its job.
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I despair sometimes .. I really do.
Are Vital (sic) sponsoring this?
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
At the end of the day it's results that count and unless we're all singing from the same hymn sheet it will all end in tears.
Spot on. End of. Let's hope we are reading from the same page. If we are we should be cooking on gas. We need to get back to the bread and butter of winning league games. The wall needs to do its job.
This.
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When Gordon Cowans says that he could not believe the attitude of the players at our club then you realise how bad the problems are!!
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
Thing is: you've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette.
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As Greg points out, the tail is trying to wag the dog here. The tail needs to understand that it's the dog that does the wagging, with the verb 'to wag' here in its transitive sense, and any wagging which the tail may make is merely in the intransitive sense, ie it wags at the behest of its owner, in other words the dog.
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fans unhappy with manager because of crap results shocker.........as that article hints, i reckon a few anti-GH will be surprised at just how rotten some of our bad apples in the squad are when it finally comes out in the wash
spot on, greg. And if those apples are as bad as I suspect, a lot of chickens will be coming home to roost.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or lock the stable door after the horse has bolted, otherwise we'll end up with egg on our faces.
At the end of the day it's results that count and unless we're all singing from the same hymn sheet it will all end in tears.
Spot on. End of. Let's hope we are reading from the same page. If we are we should be cooking on gas. We need to get back to the bread and butter of winning league games. The wall needs to do its job.
I Houllier needs to pick off the low hanging fruit in the summer. I'm sure he and his coaching staff will then have an ideas shower to find the best solution for the club going forward.
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As Greg points out, the tail is trying to wag the dog here. The tail needs to understand that it's the dog that does the wagging, with the verb 'to wag' here in its transitive sense, and any wagging which the tail may make is merely in the intransitive sense, ie it wags at the behest of its owner, in other words the dog.
oh Damon, what a wag you are...
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Money makes the world go around.
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When Gordon Cowans says that he could not believe the attitude of the players at our club then you realise how bad the problems are!!
Indeed. But where did you see this assertion?
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I see our temporary freindship with Mr Nursey andf his newspaper did'nt last long.
I don't think Ged should be here either, but protesting is not going to do more harm than good.
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I saw the girlfriend of one of the current England squad in the car park up the Lickeys the other day, being shagged by a load of blokes. I asked what was going on and was told that they were dogging the wag.
Sorry, I will go for a long walk to think about the error of my ways.
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Solidarity is needed at the next home game. Sure, you can scoff at that comment, but Aston Villa must not go down.
Lets get out of the shit before the recriminations begin.
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At the end of the day the word 'professional' has to mean something in life. If your a solicitor and you hate your boss you don't fuck up a murder trial deliberately to spite him. You do the job to the best of your ability, and move on when the time is right. So the players have to take their fair share of responsibility for being sulky gits.
However, the one thing the manager has almost certainly got wrong since his arrival is the quickness of the change. It should be evolution rather than revolution. It was at the end of the day a winning team by and large, so changes to working practices such as training regimes should have been gradual. I also think that even since he was managing in this league the game has moved on to the point where these players are more pampered and untouchable than ever and he simply doesn't get that.
There's also another view I have and that is some manager's just don't get the ethos of a club. We have a manager in Houllier who I think fits that bill. He doesn't get the heritage, history or the fabric of the club. A bit like Dolly if you will. I think part of that comes from this ongoing lvoe affair with Liverpool.
All things considered, it isn't a healthy situation and needs to be dealt with before it's too late.
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I would love to think the players are out to prove everyone wrong. Maybe we will catch a break and Newcastle won't try
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There's also another view I have and that is some manager's just don't get the ethos of a club. We have a manager in Houllier who I think fits that bill. He doesn't get the heritage, history or the fabric of the club. A bit like Dolly if you will. I think part of that comes from this ongoing lvoe affair with Liverpool.
I think much the same. Someone yesterday likened Gez to a consultant, doing one particular job dispassionately and with no thought to the greater good of the company. Maybe the whole Liverpool thing has been exaggerated, though, - I don't think he cares about much more than himself.
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There's also another view I have and that is some manager's just don't get the ethos of a club. We have a manager in Houllier who I think fits that bill. He doesn't get the heritage, history or the fabric of the club. A bit like Dolly if you will. I think part of that comes from this ongoing lvoe affair with Liverpool.
I think much the same. Someone yesterday likened Gez to a consultant, doing one particular job dispassionately and with no thought to the greater good of the company. Maybe the whole Liverpool thing has been exaggerated, though, - I don't think he cares about much more than himself.
I don't think that many players or managers give much time to the history and tradition of the football clubs they represent.
Fortunately, most managers and players keep their traps shut.
Unfortunately managers like Houllier and players like Ireland don't.
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When our injury crisis was at it's worst I thought Houllier did well not to blame that reason for the poor results, now the majority are back, he's still not coming out with too many excuses other than "it will be alright in the end".
Is the reason he is not making excuses because he's not really that bothered either way, I wonder who is having more sleepless nights, Houllier, the fans or the players, I think I already know the answer.
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It is very clear that the players and management at Villa Park need to bite the pillow while cutting the cheese. Furthermore, it is vital that they toss the salad while shunning those who lets the badgers loose. Quimling must be banished from the dressing room and Ashley must be told he can no longer clear the custard whenever he feels fit. Only when they autograph the gusset while throwing a Woodbine down Nelson Road can we accept the arrival of the horse's handbrake.
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There's also another view I have and that is some manager's just don't get the ethos of a club. We have a manager in Houllier who I think fits that bill. He doesn't get the heritage, history or the fabric of the club. A bit like Dolly if you will. I think part of that comes from this ongoing lvoe affair with Liverpool.
I think much the same. Someone yesterday likened Gez to a consultant, doing one particular job dispassionately and with no thought to the greater good of the company. Maybe the whole Liverpool thing has been exaggerated, though, - I don't think he cares about much more than himself.
I don't think that many players or managers give much time to the history and tradition of the football clubs they represent.
Fortunately, most managers and players keep their traps shut.
Unfortunately managers like Houllier and players like Ireland don't.
Whilst you are probably right, compare and contrast Houlliers approach to that of Paul McGrath in his interview the other day. He played for one of the biggest clubs in the world before joining Villa. Yet in his interview he was still saying 'we are in trouble' as opposed to just talking in general terms about Villa - a guy who truly gets us.
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There's also another view I have and that is some manager's just don't get the ethos of a club. We have a manager in Houllier who I think fits that bill. He doesn't get the heritage, history or the fabric of the club. A bit like Dolly if you will. I think part of that comes from this ongoing lvoe affair with Liverpool.
I think much the same. Someone yesterday likened Gez to a consultant, doing one particular job dispassionately and with no thought to the greater good of the company. Maybe the whole Liverpool thing has been exaggerated, though, - I don't think he cares about much more than himself.
I don't think that many players or managers give much time to the history and tradition of the football clubs they represent.
Fortunately, most managers and players keep their traps shut.
Unfortunately managers like Houllier and players like Ireland don't.
Whilst you are probably right, compare and contrast Houlliers approach to that of Paul McGrath in his interview the other day. He played for one of the biggest clubs in the world before joining Villa. Yet in his interview he was still saying 'we are in trouble' as opposed to just talking in general terms about Villa - a guy who truly gets us.
Exactly. God bless er... God.
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I saw the girlfriend of one of the current England squad in the car park up the Lickeys the other day, being shagged by a load of blokes. I asked what was going on and was told that they were dogging the wag.
Sorry, I will go for a long walk to think about the error of my ways.
Was it in the back of a Rover?
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Not one mention to his decision to field a weakened side for the Man City game. Not one mention of his antics at Anfield. Player problems or not he's still made some major errors.
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There's also another view I have and that is some manager's just don't get the ethos of a club. We have a manager in Houllier who I think fits that bill. He doesn't get the heritage, history or the fabric of the club. A bit like Dolly if you will. I think part of that comes from this ongoing lvoe affair with Liverpool.
I think much the same. Someone yesterday likened Gez to a consultant, doing one particular job dispassionately and with no thought to the greater good of the company. Maybe the whole Liverpool thing has been exaggerated, though, - I don't think he cares about much more than himself.
I think that is absolutely spot on.
I disagree about the Liverpool thing. I think people were very much entitled to be offended at that. I know I was.
I don't really care if he loves Liverpool or if he has their badge tattooed on his arse, none of that bothers me until the point at which he makes it public.
It was the same with the Man City line up. Maybe he thought we had no chance, maybe he was right, but that was one thing. To come out and state is quite so clearly in the media was pointless and daft, and just made it even worse.
I think that his inability to understand the nuances of things like that has contributed in large part to his current friendlessness.
Even Chris doesn't like him much, which takes some doing.
Oh, and just to add, I don't for a moment buy into this "must bleed claret and blue / let's get Martin Laursen in! / can only understand the club if you played for it" bullshit, either, but there are a great number of intermediate points between that extreme and acting like you're agency staff brought in to do maternity cover, which is what GH does.
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I would love to think the players are out to prove everyone wrong. Maybe we will catch a break and Newcastle won't try
On the bright side, Newcastle's form since the middle of January is even worse than ours.
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When I said Liverpool I meant him having any affection for them, rather than what happened at Anfield.
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When I said Liverpool I meant him having any affection for them, rather than what happened at Anfield.
I think he clearly does have lots of affection for them.
I hope he does, because if he doesn't, it makes that Anfield stuff even less excusable, which takes some doing.
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Not one mention to his decision to field a weakened side for the Man City game. Not one mention of his antics at Anfield. Player problems or not he's still made some major errors.
And playing Gabby wide.
And not switching to 4-4-2 when Bent is getting isolated.
All these things have no bearing on player power, just bad management of a football team.
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I would love to think the players are out to prove everyone wrong. Maybe we will catch a break and Newcastle won't try
This is what I am hoping for also.
Sad when it comes to that, but there it is.
Wolves were up for it, if Newcastle and 2/3 other sides between now and the end of the season don't turn up we'll be in clover.
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Not one mention to his decision to field a weakened side for the Man City game. Not one mention of his antics at Anfield. Player problems or not he's still made some major errors.
And playing Gabby wide.
And not switching to 4-4-2 when Bent is getting isolated.
All these things have no bearing on player power, just bad management of a football team.
Every decision he makes that you don't agree with is proof of bad management?
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I wonder if the media will give as much publicity to our scarf/flag campaign that shows us in a positive light?
I'm not holding my breath either.
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you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems. Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa
Although I agree in principal, I think this highlights his main fault as our manager.
A boss has to command respect and be seen as a true authority figure. That means that even if you don't agree with him, be it the type of training or where you're being played, you give it your best anyway out of fear more than anything. Basically, you know that if you cross him you're gonna lose so you toe the line.
This trait can come from a number of facets; respect for previous achievements, strength of personality, long tenure at the club. And it seems to me that Houllier has none of these.
The players have been awful to him, but they're only doing that as they think they can get away with it, which is because he's seen as a 'weak' manager. Let's not forget the likes of Dunne and Collins gave O'Neill no Hassle. Could that be because they liked his approach? Maybe, but they also knew that if they tried the shit they've done with Houllier they'd never see 1st team football again.
So my concern is that he can't command the respect of the modern professional and never will, which is why I think he should go.
I think it is more to do with the fact they were signed by MON. if you know someone has gone out of their way to choose you, you are more likely to want to repay the faith. where as houllier has had this pile of shit handed to him and been told "do something with this". The ones that have shown disrespect are currently rotting in the reserves or shipped out--i dont see what more he can do. There is only so far you can go....if we carry on like that with collins and dunne we are fucked, we are bare bones as it is. We just have to ask these ****** to do the job they get paid thousands to do for a few more weeks. Beye, warnock etc should be going into the office and begging houllier to wipe the slate clean...they dont deserve to play for us they way they are....
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It would be nice, but it probably wouldn't sell as many papers or get as many reads/views.
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For sure, as I say, at the end of the day, the ball's in our court, if we aren't singing from the same hymn sheet and developing some blue sky thinking outside of the box then we are all in it up to our necks and we'll be sick as a parrot Brian.
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you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems. Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa
The best manager in the world would be able to manage any squad of players however resentful and uncooperative.
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you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems. Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa
The best manager in the world would be able to manage any squad of players however resentful and uncooperative.
Indeed.
Look at Chelsea, the season under Scolari and then Hiddink.
Scolari lost the dressing room and respect of the players and got the sack (at the right time).
Hiddink came in and completely turned it around and came close to winning 3 trophies from a position where they looked like their season was gone.
Is the suggestion that it was the Chelsea players that were the problem and not Scolari and they should have been got rid of?? Because if so, it is worth remembering that the next season they won the league under a new manager who also commanded respect.
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A protest at this stage is pathetic, we need to get behind the lads.
I must admit I thought he was a good manager at one stage, Blackburn in the cup we were 1-0 down at HT and we were shocking, He brought on Heskey second half and changed it all around, Even big sam said we changed it and they couldn't cope.
I thought great we have someone who has a plan B, he sees what's wrong and makes changes, Sadly he hasn't stuck to that. Wolves was very evident of that
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you can be the best manager in the world but if you're squad are as resentful and uncooperative as this current crop you've got big problems. Either you give in to them, get a new manager and have the tail wagging the dog so to speak which is never a good idea or you try to ship them out as soon as possible. even if GH goes, i hope the trouble makers aren't given a reprieve. Disgraceful how some of them have acted, and an embarassment to Aston Villa
The best manager in the world would be able to manage any squad of players however resentful and uncooperative.
Indeed.
Look at Chelsea, the season under Scolari and then Hiddink.
Scolari lost the dressing room and respect of the players and got the sack (at the right time).
Hiddink came in and completely turned it around and came close to winning 3 trophies from a position where they looked like their season was gone.
Is the suggestion that it was the Chelsea players that were the problem and not Scolari and they should have been got rid of?? Because if so, it is worth remembering that the next season they won the league under a new manager who also commanded respect.
I don't think Houllier and Hiddink are comparable. Their approaches differ completely.
Houllier is an administrator who wants to instill a philosophy and build something for the longer term. Hiddink is more like Mourinho; good at assessing players and getting the best out of what is at his disposal. Apart from PSV he has never been at a club for a long period. Mourinho is similar; his spell at Chelsea is the longest in his career.
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And buying Darren Bent
And buying Makoun
And getting Walker on loan.
And developing , and introducing Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Baker, Herd, Hogg, Delfounso.
And trying to play more football.
Its not all been bad decisions by GH, and tbh this was always going to be a transitional season.It appears that the chasms between the senior players and management, that were suggested by MM, have had a lot more of an influence on team results than we had hoped.
Not sure why we want player power to win tbh.
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Or another way of putting it...Hiddink is a world class manager. Houllier is.....eh.....eh......not...?
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And buying Darren Bent
And buying Makoun
And getting Walker on loan.
And developing , and introducing Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Baker, Herd, Hogg, Delfounso.
And trying to play more football.
Its not all been bad decisions by GH, and tbh this was always going to be a transitional season.It appears that the chasms between the senior players and management, that were suggested by MM, have had a lot more of an influence on team results than we had hoped.
Not sure why we want player power to win tbh.
Transitional season??? I didn't realise the transition was going to be of divisions at the start of the season.
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Are we approaching the end of the 5 year plan now ?
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Are we approaching the end of the 5 year plan now ?
Are we approaching the start of your 5 year ban now ? ;)
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Are we approaching the end of the 5 year plan now ?
I presumed it got reset back to year dot when the new manager came in.
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I am all for free speech and people being entitled to their opinions, but anybody in favour of organised protests or demonstrations because of our present predicament is a complete and utter idiot, totally wrong in their actions and themselves show a total lack of understanding of the history of Aston Villa.
We have players underperforming and a manager who on the present evidence is not doing an effective job so our team are losing games. Yes thats horrible and I hate it, but the club itself is not disorganised or badly run. The team on the pitch may be rudderless right now, but the club itself is not.
Boo and moan during the match if you dont like what you see, boo them off at half time if you dont like the 1st half, not my style but its an emotional game. Boo them off at the end and scream verbals at the bench at full time if its bad, now that is something I've done on more than one occasion this season.
But planning and organising demonstrations because the team is losing at the moment ? Do me a favour !
We had demonstrations a few years back because Doug wouldnt let go, and it was obvious to many of us that this was increasingly holding the club back. That was justified.
In 1968 the club was rotten from top to bottom and on the verge of bankrupty from years of neglect by directors who were living in the past. Demonstrations then were not just necessary, they were imperative to the survival of the club. The club was saved and a new era began and we avoided relegation that season. But the next season the team imploded and spectacularly went backwards on the pitch. Just as now, there was reports of player unrest and fall outs with the manager. Just put the name Docherty instead of Houllier, think Mike Ferguson, Dick Edwards, Barry Hole instead of Ireland, Collins, Dunne. Nobody talked of demonstrating, even though we finished up in the 3rd division. Because we knew the basics of the club itself were right.
So to the attention seeking big mouths who seem to be almost revelling in each defeat as they plan protest and revolution, I say shut up. Shut up because you dont cheer in equal volume when we win as you boo when we lose, shut up because you never give credit where its due in equal measure with the criticism you dish out, but most of all shut up because I suspect you are mostly spoilt brats who have known nothing but the premier league and like many modern fans you have no patience and at the first hint of problems you start crying.
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It would be nice, but it probably wouldn't sell as many papers or get as many reads/views.
Interesting how the Houllier out page has been going for over 4 months and has 658 likes. While our page has been up less than a day and has already passed 400 members.
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wiki,have you chosen your banner headline yet for your march? i remember the ellis out marches and this will have equally the same effect - none|
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And buying Darren Bent
And buying Makoun
And getting Walker on loan.
And developing , and introducing Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Baker, Herd, Hogg, Delfounso.
And trying to play more football.
Its not all been bad decisions by GH, and tbh this was always going to be a transitional season.It appears that the chasms between the senior players and management, that were suggested by MM, have had a lot more of an influence on team results than we had hoped.
Not sure why we want player power to win tbh.
I can't see many positives there. Sure he threw some kids in, but big deal most of them have now been packed off on loan.
With regard to the signings Bent was obviously a board initiated panic buy at a drasticallly over inflated price and Makoun will never be anything other than a liability.
As for the loan signings whilst Walker is a good player, I don't think we should be loaning players from Spurs as in the long run it's of more use to them than it is to us. You didn't mention Bradley. I doubt we'll ever see him again.
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It would be nice, but it probably wouldn't sell as many papers or get as many reads/views.
Interesting how the Houllier out page has been going for over 4 months and has 658 likes. While our page has been up less than a day and has already passed 400 members.
439 in less than 24 hours. Not bad at all.
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Great post, Andy Lochhead.
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Great post, Andy Lochhead.
Absolutely.
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We should back the team (ignore Houllier) for the remaining games.
Positive support is needed - the groans on saturday as villa tried to play were embarrassing.
If we go down lets go down with pride - thats fans & players!
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Disagree with you about Makoun, Durham.....think he will turn out to be a very good player tbh.
Walker has certainly been a great loan signing, and Bent over priced?...Carroll for £35m is overpriced.
GH has used the kids, probably a lot more than he wanted.I don't think we know how much he rebels have hindered our progress this season tbh, Dunne has a history of misdemeanours, and maybe the combination of Ireland, Carew, Warnock,and Collins, has poisoned the positivity at the club.
I don't want to be an apologist for GH, although i can see the changes he is trying to implement will help the club in the future, and i don't know why we are struggling with he players we have, maybe it is the manager, the formation, the players, but i expect a lot more professionalism than some of the players have shown recently.
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I am all for free speech and people being entitled to their opinions, but anybody in favour of organised protests or demonstrations because of our present predicament is a complete and utter idiot, totally wrong in their actions and themselves show a total lack of understanding of the history of Aston Villa.
We have players underperforming and a manager who on the present evidence is not doing an effective job so our team are losing games. Yes thats horrible and I hate it, but the club itself is not disorganised or badly run. The team on the pitch may be rudderless right now, but the club itself is not.
Boo and moan during the match if you dont like what you see, boo them off at half time if you dont like the 1st half, not my style but its an emotional game. Boo them off at the end and scream verbals at the bench at full time if its bad, now that is something I've done on more than one occasion this season.
But planning and organising demonstrations because the team is losing at the moment ? Do me a favour !
We had demonstrations a few years back because Doug wouldnt let go, and it was obvious to many of us that this was increasingly holding the club back. That was justified.
In 1968 the club was rotten from top to bottom and on the verge of bankrupty from years of neglect by directors who were living in the past. Demonstrations then were not just necessary, they were imperative to the survival of the club. The club was saved and a new era began and we avoided relegation that season. But the next season the team imploded and spectacularly went backwards on the pitch. Just as now, there was reports of player unrest and fall outs with the manager. Just put the name Docherty instead of Houllier, think Mike Ferguson, Dick Edwards, Barry Hole instead of Ireland, Collins, Dunne. Nobody talked of demonstrating, even though we finished up in the 3rd division. Because we knew the basics of the club itself were right.
So to the attention seeking big mouths who seem to be almost revelling in each defeat as they plan protest and revolution, I say shut up. Shut up because you dont cheer in equal volume when we win as you boo when we lose, shut up because you never give credit where its due in equal measure with the criticism you dish out, but most of all shut up because I suspect you are mostly spoilt brats who have known nothing but the premier league and like many modern fans you have no patience and at the first hint of problems you start crying.
Fantastic! I've just added a line after each paragraph and I think I've painted the ceiling.
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I am all for free speech and people being entitled to their opinions, but anybody in favour of organised protests or demonstrations because of our present predicament is a complete and utter idiot, totally wrong in their actions and themselves show a total lack of understanding of the history of Aston Villa.
We have players underperforming and a manager who on the present evidence is not doing an effective job so our team are losing games. Yes thats horrible and I hate it, but the club itself is not disorganised or badly run. The team on the pitch may be rudderless right now, but the club itself is not.
Boo and moan during the match if you dont like what you see, boo them off at half time if you dont like the 1st half, not my style but its an emotional game. Boo them off at the end and scream verbals at the bench at full time if its bad, now that is something I've done on more than one occasion this season.
But planning and organising demonstrations because the team is losing at the moment ? Do me a favour !
We had demonstrations a few years back because Doug wouldnt let go, and it was obvious to many of us that this was increasingly holding the club back. That was justified.
In 1968 the club was rotten from top to bottom and on the verge of bankrupty from years of neglect by directors who were living in the past. Demonstrations then were not just necessary, they were imperative to the survival of the club. The club was saved and a new era began and we avoided relegation that season. But the next season the team imploded and spectacularly went backwards on the pitch. Just as now, there was reports of player unrest and fall outs with the manager. Just put the name Docherty instead of Houllier, think Mike Ferguson, Dick Edwards, Barry Hole instead of Ireland, Collins, Dunne. Nobody talked of demonstrating, even though we finished up in the 3rd division. Because we knew the basics of the club itself were right.
So to the attention seeking big mouths who seem to be almost revelling in each defeat as they plan protest and revolution, I say shut up. Shut up because you dont cheer in equal volume when we win as you boo when we lose, shut up because you never give credit where its due in equal measure with the criticism you dish out, but most of all shut up because I suspect you are mostly spoilt brats who have known nothing but the premier league and like many modern fans you have no patience and at the first hint of problems you start crying.
The post I wanted to write all week but couldn't articulate. Well done Andy L.
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Indeed BLF, it's been the senior players that have really let us down this season. I must admit I'm very disappointed with Collins, I really thought he was above all this shit.
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Post of the week. Easily.
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ALITA, can I use your post on the scarf/flag Facebook page?
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Post of the week. Easily.
Yes, completely agree. Well said, Andy.
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And buying Darren Bent
And buying Makoun
And getting Walker on loan.
And developing , and introducing Bannan, Albrighton, Clark, Baker, Herd, Hogg, Delfounso.
And trying to play more football.
Its not all been bad decisions by GH, and tbh this was always going to be a transitional season.It appears that the chasms between the senior players and management, that were suggested by MM, have had a lot more of an influence on team results than we had hoped.
Not sure why we want player power to win tbh.
I can't see many positives there. Sure he threw some kids in, but big deal most of them have now been packed off on loan.
With regard to the signings Bent was obviously a board initiated panic buy at a drasticallly over inflated price and Makoun will never be anything other than a liability.
As for the loan signings whilst Walker is a good player, I don't think we should be loaning players from Spurs as in the long run it's of more use to them than it is to us. You didn't mention Bradley. I doubt we'll ever see him again.
I see you're on Twitter now, Oliver.
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Great post Andy, very well put and I totally agree. I wish everyone else did.
I know football is all about opinions etc but all this talk about protests and people actually really wanting us to lose is really doing my head in. It really is quite bizarre.
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ALITA, can I use your post on the scarf/flag Facebook page?
OK.
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Thank you.
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Post of the week. Easily.
Yes, completely agree. Well said, Andy.
Even the bit about booing at half time? Sure about that?
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wiki,have you chosen your banner headline yet for your march? i remember the ellis out marches and this will have equally the same effect - none|
"ELLIS IN"
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Durham and Wiki should hang their heads in shame. There is plenty to be pissed off about but can't we give positivity a go for the next home match?
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Yes. Try this (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_199433363412189&ap=1).
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This initiative (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=42843.0) is at least positive (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_199433363412189#!/home.php?sk=group_199433363412189&ap=1).
Nearly 500 members in that group too.
I wonder if the Mirror are being the typical Mirror.
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The reason we did not protest in an organized way when we went down to the third division is not because we were complacent about it, quite the reverse, we felt very strongly about it. In those days protests were very spontaneous things. They just happened. The most frequent flare ups by fans were over the coppers giving a fan a good hiding.
In these days of mobile phones and the internet protests can be organized very easily. Other than that point ALITA I agree with your excellent post.
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The reason we did not protest in an organized way when we went down to the third division is not because we were complacent about it, quite the reverse, we felt very strongly about it.
We didnt protest because although the team had gone down, the club was on the up. Financial re-organisation, popular widespread share issue, ground improvements, big crowds, purchase of the Bodymoor Heath land.
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Thanks ALITA. That's just how I feel.
When we went down to the third division, it felt utterly catastrophic. I wonder how the crying protest plotters would feel today if the equivalent happened? As I said on another thread, my mate and I reacted by buying our first season tickets.
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Durham and Wiki should hang their heads in shame. There is plenty to be pissed off about but can't we give positivity a go for the next home match?
I don't think so. The vocal support and general atmosphere at Villa Park in recent years has been poor, and I am in favour of any attempts to improve this situation, because I do believe that it could have a positive impact on results.
Obviously I don't rate Houllier, but I'm certainly not backing any protests which i can only agree are a completely ridiculous idea.
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Get rid of Houllier and the disruptive players have won, what message does that send to any future manager of Villa? he would be treading on eggshells afraid to put players in their place because believe me the same cretins will rule the roost.
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Post of the week. Easily.
Yes, completely agree. Well said, Andy.
Even the bit about booing at half time? Sure about that?
I agree that it was a good post and I agree with his argument that there's a massive difference between a spontaneous reaction during the game and the moronic protest march a few twats seem to be planning.
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Has it come to this though. We posture and shake our fists because we have a group on Facebook? I use Facebook, I like Facebook. But I don't care about Facebook.
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I use Facebook, I like Facebook. But I don't care about Facebook.
That pretty well sums up Facebook for me as well.
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I am all for free speech and people being entitled to their opinions, but anybody in favour of organised protests or demonstrations because of our present predicament is a complete and utter idiot, totally wrong in their actions and themselves show a total lack of understanding of the history of Aston Villa.
We have players underperforming and a manager who on the present evidence is not doing an effective job so our team are losing games. Yes thats horrible and I hate it, but the club itself is not disorganised or badly run. The team on the pitch may be rudderless right now, but the club itself is not.
Boo and moan during the match if you dont like what you see, boo them off at half time if you dont like the 1st half, not my style but its an emotional game. Boo them off at the end and scream verbals at the bench at full time if its bad, now that is something I've done on more than one occasion this season.
But planning and organising demonstrations because the team is losing at the moment ? Do me a favour !
We had demonstrations a few years back because Doug wouldnt let go, and it was obvious to many of us that this was increasingly holding the club back. That was justified.
In 1968 the club was rotten from top to bottom and on the verge of bankrupty from years of neglect by directors who were living in the past. Demonstrations then were not just necessary, they were imperative to the survival of the club. The club was saved and a new era began and we avoided relegation that season. But the next season the team imploded and spectacularly went backwards on the pitch. Just as now, there was reports of player unrest and fall outs with the manager. Just put the name Docherty instead of Houllier, think Mike Ferguson, Dick Edwards, Barry Hole instead of Ireland, Collins, Dunne. Nobody talked of demonstrating, even though we finished up in the 3rd division. Because we knew the basics of the club itself were right.
So to the attention seeking big mouths who seem to be almost revelling in each defeat as they plan protest and revolution, I say shut up. Shut up because you dont cheer in equal volume when we win as you boo when we lose, shut up because you never give credit where its due in equal measure with the criticism you dish out, but most of all shut up because I suspect you are mostly spoilt brats who have known nothing but the premier league and like many modern fans you have no patience and at the first hint of problems you start crying.
how anyone can say the club isnt badly run after the release of the recent accounts is off their rocker frankly.
88% of turnover gone on wages.
Unprecedented debt and massive losses
has anyone ever really explained the sale of land last year either by RAL?
A CEO way out of his depth
Disastrous choice of manager
The above is not the fault of MON but those charged with running the finances of the club ie the board.
On the playing side
A squad - the most expensive ever assembled by the club - 3 points from bottom of the worst EPL season in terms of quality I can remember
A squad most likely without any relegation clauses into their salaries
A squad top heavy with players in which we will take a huge loss on if they are sold in the summer
Best player leaving in summer
The most expensive manager ever brought in has been a disaster and the vast majority of players/supporters have no faith in him even keeping us up never mind chasing Europe.
The only positives I can think is that the youth academy continues to produce talent capable of playing in the EPL and also that we have a great training ground.
No point burying our heads in the ground. The club is in big trouble and relegation for the clubs finances would be disastrous. Every other club whose new manager presided over such a shambles would also be up in arms.
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Not sure whether this has been mentioned but on the guardian podcast there is a reporter that said that there have been a number of players - off the record - undermining Houllier. If I were to guess the reporter sounds like he is a fan of Houllier but he seems to know that there is a pretty extensive recruitment strategy already planned for the summer if we can stay up.
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I just read Andy's post. Superb and exactly how I feel about things. There is an unbelievable amount of people on here that are dying for us to lose the next game just so they can come on and rant for days on end. It's sickening. Now more than any time in the past few years we need to band together, and get through this. Because the alternative is not worth contemplating. However, it appears that some of you actually are wallowing in this, wanting the situation to get worse. Just so you can say once again what a complete wanker Houllier is and how the club is a complete disaster.
And a protest? If you think that's going to help then you might as well plan your trip to Derby, Doncaster or Barnsley right now.
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And here's one of today's latest exclusives:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1369704/Gerard-Houlliers-law-Aston-Villa-casts-shadow-future-players.html - at least 8 discontented players apparently.
I'm torn between how much to believe what's being written/said and how much of it is screaming headlines akin to when Prince Andrew went on holiday with Koo Stark*. Some papers reported it along the lines of Randy Andy goes on holiday with porn actress whilst others chose the line Sailor goes on holiday with girl.
* only those of us of a certain age will remember Koo Stark.
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What the fuck is Houllier doing?
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calm down, it's the Mail Rip.
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There is an unbelievable amount of people on here that are dying for us to lose the next game just so they can come on and rant for days on end. However, it appears that some of you actually are wallowing in this, wanting the situation to get worse. Just so you can say once again what a complete wanker Houllier is and how the club is a complete disaster.
What a load of bollocks. I want Houiller gone, we're 1 point off relegation in case you had'nt noticed, but i want us to win up at Everton next week to help get ourselves out of it and i think you'll find the majority of people on here do too.
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I saw the article in the mail - could not believe that our so called super stars are upset if they get fined for being late!! diddums!! they are really pathetic!
Where I work late 3 times in 12 months and you get a written warning!
for all that Houllier has done wrong, surely we must hold these players accountable as well.
I honestly believe it would not have mattered who we would have appointed as manager there was always going to be problems. Heard on the radio last week from one of the reporters who is in the know that these problems existed under O'Neill as well!
Whichever division we are in next season, I just cannot wait to see these players leave our club, I could not care less next season if we have to play, the young lads, at least they will show some pride in wearing the shirt.
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No point burying our heads in the ground. The club is in big trouble and relegation for the clubs finances would be disastrous. Every other club whose new manager presided over such a shambles would also be up in arms.
So how is protesting and generally making ourselves look like Newcastle fans in front of TV cameras going to do anything other than add to the groundswell of ill feeling and negativity at the club?
If there's one thing that will guarantee this club goes down, it is lack of spirit, and I fail to see how a load of foaming-at-the-mouth dimwits getting their mardy faces on SSN is going to be anything but detrimental to spirit.
Pathetic.
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There is an unbelievable amount of people on here that are dying for us to lose the next game just so they can come on and rant for days on end. However, it appears that some of you actually are wallowing in this, wanting the situation to get worse. Just so you can say once again what a complete wanker Houllier is and how the club is a complete disaster.
What a load of bollocks. I want Houiller gone, we're 1 point off relegation in case you had'nt noticed, but i want us to win up at Everton next week to help get ourselves out of it and i think you'll find the majority of people on here do too.
well said clampy, if doug was in charge now hed be getting crucified , record debts, crowds dropping,a ceo who seems out of his depth, a manager who seems to have lost the plot , and a club slipping down the table with players who want out.
lets not make out randy is doing a great job here st the moment, hes the top man and needs to sort this out,we all want the club to win but bronte is right , it is a shambles and needs sorting fast.
people dont come on criticising for fun , we all love this club and care what happens,protests are not the way forward though.
toronto, to say many fans want to lose so they can complain is ridiculous.
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Whether or not you agree with him, to introduce these rules now, at the start of the biggest 8 games since football began in 1992 just smacks of absolute and utter pettiness, tetchiness and any other ness you want to throw into the mix. This is yet another extraordinarily ill judged faux pas on the manager's part.
If you look at the 8 players, you could argue that 6 at least would be leaving anyway, but we need them NOW so to piss them off at this stage defies any form of understanding at all.
I actually think there was slightly more harmony in the dressing room under McNeil than there is now and that is saying something.
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
i take it you think paul faulkner is doing a great job then?
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
i take it you think paul faulkner is doing a great job then?
Is it possible to think his performance might be questioned without saying he's "out of his depth"?
Everything seems so extreme these days.
Also:
well said clampy, if doug was in charge now hed be getting crucified , record debts, crowds dropping,a ceo who seems out of his depth, a manager who seems to have lost the plot , and a club slipping down the table with players who want out.
I don't remember anyone complaining too much about record debts when we were spending 24 million pounds on a striker in January.
Prior to January - "OMG! Randy is so TIGHT!"
After spending 24m on one player: "OMG! We've got record debts!"
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
i take it you think paul faulkner is doing a great job then?
The truth is I don't know. Do you?
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
i take it you think paul faulkner is doing a great job then?
The truth is I don't know. Do you?
looking at the clubs situation on and off the pitch should give you a very good clue.,what are his credentials for a high profile role at a premier football club? Has he any previous experience in football in any role?
Seems to me he worked in other business for randy and has no football background whatsoever,and it shows.
If doug and stridey were here in this position they would be getting dogs abuse , but some people feel still that randy and paul are blameless.
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No point burying our heads in the ground. The club is in big trouble and relegation for the clubs finances would be disastrous. Every other club whose new manager presided over such a shambles would also be up in arms.
So how is protesting and generally making ourselves look like Newcastle fans in front of TV cameras going to do anything other than add to the groundswell of ill feeling and negativity at the club?
If there's one thing that will guarantee this club goes down, it is lack of spirit, and I fail to see how a load of foaming-at-the-mouth dimwits getting their mardy faces on SSN is going to be anything but detrimental to spirit.
Pathetic.
There is a complete lack of spirit at the moment as we head towards the second division. I can't see how protesting would worsen that spirit. It's pathetic as supporters to pretend everything is right with the club when it clearly isn't, we are in a right old hole on and off the pitch.
With the players in our squad it is an embarrassment that we are down with the Blackpools. The buck stops with Houllier. There is 24 points left to play for and with a new manager in charge I'd fancy us to get at least 12. People have a right
to demonstrate if they so wish. There is nothing pathetic about standing up for someone you believe to be wrong. Not much point protesting after the event.
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I cant see any other club planning protests. I can't remember it happening last season either. This is making us look like spoilt kids who can't handle our team losing.
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No point burying our heads in the ground. The club is in big trouble and relegation for the clubs finances would be disastrous. Every other club whose new manager presided over such a shambles would also be up in arms.
So how is protesting and generally making ourselves look like Newcastle fans in front of TV cameras going to do anything other than add to the groundswell of ill feeling and negativity at the club?
If there's one thing that will guarantee this club goes down, it is lack of spirit, and I fail to see how a load of foaming-at-the-mouth dimwits getting their mardy faces on SSN is going to be anything but detrimental to spirit.
Pathetic.
There is a complete lack of spirit at the moment as we head towards the second division. I can't see how protesting would worsen that spirit.
I can.
I can't see how protesting will inspire the players and management to produce fighting performances.
If I was being moaned at all day at work, I don't think i'd produce the best results.
The next 8 games are crucial, we have to play our part in getting behind the team, the recriminations can start after the Liverpool game.
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
i take it you think paul faulkner is doing a great job then?
Is it possible to think his performance might be questioned without saying he's "out of his depth"?
Everything seems so extreme these days.
Also:
well said clampy, if doug was in charge now hed be getting crucified , record debts, crowds dropping,a ceo who seems out of his depth, a manager who seems to have lost the plot , and a club slipping down the table with players who want out.
I don't remember anyone complaining too much about record debts when we were spending 24 million pounds on a striker in January.
Prior to January - "OMG! Randy is so TIGHT!"
After spending 24m on one player: "OMG! We've got record debts!"
the accounts hadnt been released at that time paulie, but i take your point .
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No point burying our heads in the ground. The club is in big trouble and relegation for the clubs finances would be disastrous. Every other club whose new manager presided over such a shambles would also be up in arms.
So how is protesting and generally making ourselves look like Newcastle fans in front of TV cameras going to do anything other than add to the groundswell of ill feeling and negativity at the club?
If there's one thing that will guarantee this club goes down, it is lack of spirit, and I fail to see how a load of foaming-at-the-mouth dimwits getting their mardy faces on SSN is going to be anything but detrimental to spirit.
Pathetic.
There is a complete lack of spirit at the moment as we head towards the second division. I can't see how protesting would worsen that spirit. It's pathetic as supporters to pretend everything is right with the club when it clearly isn't, we are in a right old hole on and off the pitch.
With the players in our squad it is an embarrassment that we are down with the Blackpools. The buck stops with Houllier. There is 24 points left to play for and with a new manager in charge I'd fancy us to get at least 12. People have a right
to demonstrate if they so wish. There is nothing pathetic about standing up for someone you believe to be wrong. Not much point protesting after the event.
I can see your argument bronte , but protesting will only hurt the club and not houllier,it will not achieve anything positive
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No point burying our heads in the ground. The club is in big trouble and relegation for the clubs finances would be disastrous. Every other club whose new manager presided over such a shambles would also be up in arms.
So how is protesting and generally making ourselves look like Newcastle fans in front of TV cameras going to do anything other than add to the groundswell of ill feeling and negativity at the club?
If there's one thing that will guarantee this club goes down, it is lack of spirit, and I fail to see how a load of foaming-at-the-mouth dimwits getting their mardy faces on SSN is going to be anything but detrimental to spirit.
Pathetic.
There is a complete lack of spirit at the moment as we head towards the second division. I can't see how protesting would worsen that spirit. It's pathetic as supporters to pretend everything is right with the club when it clearly isn't, we are in a right old hole on and off the pitch.
With the players in our squad it is an embarrassment that we are down with the Blackpools. The buck stops with Houllier. There is 24 points left to play for and with a new manager in charge I'd fancy us to get at least 12. People have a right
to demonstrate if they so wish. There is nothing pathetic about standing up for someone you believe to be wrong. Not much point protesting after the event.
What positive do you think protesting is going to achieve?
Nobody is going to sack the manager based on a few hundred people protesting.
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What positive do you think protesting is going to achieve?
It will get their ugly mugs on TV and a few column inches in the paper. That is all they are interested in, it's about themselves nothing to do with the Villa.
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What positive do you think protesting is going to achieve?
It will get their ugly mugs on TV and a few column inches in the paper. That is all they are interested in, it's about themselves nothing to do with the Villa.
Correct, hence the return of Fear.
We'll see if he resurrects the insufferable VFC.
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What positive do you think protesting is going to achieve?
It will get their ugly mugs on TV and a few column inches in the paper. That is all they are interested in, it's about themselves nothing to do with the Villa.
Correct, hence the return of Fear.
We'll see if he resurrects the insufferable VFC.
Some fans only seem to appear at the time of crisis and are never seen or heard when all is well, as im sure our old friend greg will testify due to reappearance this week.
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The thing is there are a number of clubs below us and, to the best of my knowledge, their fans aren't protesting or producing banners. As a consequence the media aren't focusing on them or stirring up trouble. Negativity will not help our club one iota, it will simply ramp up the pressure on the players. We need to lift the lads - some of them are very young - and get them playing with passion, with confidence and pride. Back them to the hilt.
Get positive, get behind the club and let's focus on finishing the season as high up the table as possible. We can debate managers after the final ball has been kicked. There's nearly a quarter of the season left to play - let's climb that table.
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I cant see any other club planning protests. I can't remember it happening last season either. This is making us look like spoilt kids who can't handle our team losing.
So when should the protests start? Doncaster next season ?
I can't see how protests would worsen matters on the pitch after the disgusting performance against a poor Wolves side. To be honest that was rock bottom.
No club down there has had investment it in it's playing staff and management like us. Its a disgrace we are down there really. Even in DOL and GT2 time we actually had pretty poor players. Now we have the squad that finished 6th last season and we are 3 points from bottom. No excuses. To be honest, if our board
had any backbone Houllier would have gone after the Anfield debacle when it was clear he wasn't up to managing players anymore. Looks like he will have to go in the summer anyway as regardless of who he signs as even if we stay up, season tickets sales will be at rock bottom and not many new players will want to sign for a lame duck manager. Let's just have a clean break now and get McClaren (my choice), Hughton (success in solving broken dressing rooms) or Allardyce who would cream himself at getting the job. I'd take long ball at Old Trafford rather than willy nilly at Millwall. I always hated him but let's face if he was shit I wouldn't. It might not be a bad fit either. I'd rank us a certainty to stay up if he came
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The thing is there are a number of clubs below us and, to the best of my knowledge, their fans aren't protesting or producing banners. As a consequence the media aren't focusing on them or stirring up trouble. Negativity will not help our club one iota, it will simply ramp up the pressure on the players. We need to lift the lads - some of them are very young - and get them playing with passion, with confidence and pride. Back them to the hilt.
Get positive, get behind the club and let's focus on finishing the season as high up the table as possible. We can debate managers after the final ball has been kicked. There's nearly a quarter of the season left to play - let's climb that table.
Im sure the team will get the full support of us all on the pitch , i think the media frenzy is added to by the fact that villa are a big club and the rest down there are expected to be down in that area, for villa to be there makes news .
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Bronte, you are getting two things mixed up.
Firstly, there's the thing about the protests. You still haven't said how it'd help. Not how it wouldn't worsen things, how would it *help* us?
Secondly, you're talking as if to disagree with the protests means you support Houllier, which it quite patently does not.
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I cant see any other club planning protests. I can't remember it happening last season either. This is making us look like spoilt kids who can't handle our team losing.
So when should the protests start?
When we've got something worth protesting about, rather than stamping our feet because we can't get our own way.
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I cant see any other club planning protests. I can't remember it happening last season either. This is making us look like spoilt kids who can't handle our team losing.
So when should the protests start? Doncaster next season ?
I can't see how protests would worsen matters on the pitch after the disgusting performance against a poor Wolves side. To be honest that was rock bottom.
No club down there has had investment it in it's playing staff and management like us. Its a disgrace we are down there really. Even in DOL and GT2 time we actually had pretty poor players. Now we have the squad that finished 6th last season and we are 3 points from bottom. No excuses. To be honest, if our board
had any backbone Houllier would have gone after the Anfield debacle when it was clear he wasn't up to managing players anymore. Looks like he will have to go in the summer anyway as regardless of who he signs as even if we stay up, season tickets sales will be at rock bottom and not many new players will want to sign for a lame duck manager. Let's just have a clean break now and get McClaren (my choice), Hughton (success in solving broken dressing rooms) or Allardyce who would cream himself at getting the job. I'd take long ball at Old Trafford rather than willy nilly at Millwall. I always hated him but let's face if he was shit I wouldn't. It might not be a bad fit either. I'd rank us a certainty to stay up if he came
Goodness me bronte , your choice of mclaren as 1st choice has seriously worried , there will be many better options than him.
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Secondly, you're talking as if to disagree with the protests means you support Houllier, which it quite patently does not.
Absolutely.
We need to accept that he's here at least until the end of the season, so screaming at him and the players is not going to help, quite the opposite.
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Whether or not you agree with him, to introduce these rules now, at the start of the biggest 8 games since football began in 1992 just smacks of absolute and utter pettiness, tetchiness and any other ness you want to throw into the mix. This is yet another extraordinarily ill judged faux pas on the manager's part.
If you look at the 8 players, you could argue that 6 at least would be leaving anyway, but we need them NOW so to piss them off at this stage defies any form of understanding at all.
I actually think there was slightly more harmony in the dressing room under McNeil than there is now and that is saying something.
Don't you think the papers might be doing just a little bit of shit-stirring here? Let's not fall victim to the nonsense of tabloid journalism. They want a story, they want a crisis club. Houllier and Villa are perfect fodder for a crisis club story. Let's not fall for it.
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
i take it you think paul faulkner is doing a great job then?
The truth is I don't know. Do you?
looking at the clubs situation on and off the pitch should give you a very good clue.,what are his credentials for a high profile role at a premier football club? Has he any previous experience in football in any role?
Seems to me he worked in other business for randy and has no football background whatsoever,and it shows.
If doug and stridey were here in this position they would be getting dogs abuse , but some people feel still that randy and paul are blameless.
The credentials for a professional CEO at a Premiership football club are pretty much the same as in any other business of a comparable size. It seems to me that your complaints are mostly about results on the pitch, which is the team manager's responsibility. Just what do you expect PF to do? Tell GH who to pick? Help with the training schedules? Tell GH when to sub players?
It's just that I'm not sure "a football background" is as relevant to the performance of a CEO as you might think and making sweeping statements about his competence without at least some evidence is not helping the debate.
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Lets see where we are in may and then begin the recriminations , for me although there have been many lows the turning point was man city in the cup , we were turning things around and he had won over a lot of fans but the lack of ambition showed that night derailed us badly and i dont think fans or players have recovered since.
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a ceo who seems out of his depth
Have I missed something here?
i take it you think paul faulkner is doing a great job then?
The truth is I don't know. Do you?
looking at the clubs situation on and off the pitch should give you a very good clue.,what are his credentials for a high profile role at a premier football club? Has he any previous experience in football in any role?
Seems to me he worked in other business for randy and has no football background whatsoever,and it shows.
If doug and stridey were here in this position they would be getting dogs abuse , but some people feel still that randy and paul are blameless.
The credentials for a professional CEO at a Premiership football club are pretty much the same as in any other business of a comparable size. It seems to me that your complaints are mostly about results on the pitch, which is the team manager's responsibility. Just what do you expect PF to do? Tell GH who to pick? Help with the training schedules? Tell GH when to sub players?
It's just that I'm not sure "a football background" is as relevant to the performance of a CEO as you might think and making sweeping statements about his competence without at least some evidence is not helping the debate.
Please remind who exactly appointed the current manager? if you are saying the current manager is to blame , do you not therefore think the man who appointed him or had a big say in it is also to blame?
what do i expect PF to do? Appoint a manager to take the club forwards to be quite frank.
E I aDIO , if you happy with PF and the job hes done that is your choice .
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Just to clarify I am not advocating pointless non value add protests. I do however want the manager to stop making stupid, basic errors.
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I cant see any other club planning protests. I can't remember it happening last season either. This is making us look like spoilt kids who can't handle our team losing.
So when should the protests start? Doncaster next season ?
I can't see how protests would worsen matters on the pitch after the disgusting performance against a poor Wolves side. To be honest that was rock bottom.
No club down there has had investment it in it's playing staff and management like us. Its a disgrace we are down there really. Even in DOL and GT2 time we actually had pretty poor players. Now we have the squad that finished 6th last season and we are 3 points from bottom. No excuses. To be honest, if our board
had any backbone Houllier would have gone after the Anfield debacle when it was clear he wasn't up to managing players anymore. Looks like he will have to go in the summer anyway as regardless of who he signs as even if we stay up, season tickets sales will be at rock bottom and not many new players will want to sign for a lame duck manager. Let's just have a clean break now and get McClaren (my choice), Hughton (success in solving broken dressing rooms) or Allardyce who would cream himself at getting the job. I'd take long ball at Old Trafford rather than willy nilly at Millwall. I always hated him but let's face if he was shit I
wouldn't. It might not be a bad fit either. I'd rank us a certainty to stay up if he came
Goodness me bronte , your choice of mclaren as 1st choice has seriously worried , there will be many better options than him.
Lets see where we are in may and then begin the recriminations , for me although there have been many lows the turning point was man city in the cup , we were turning things around and he had won over a lot of fans but the lack of ambition
showed that night derailed us badly and i dont think fans or players have recovered since.
I think McClaren gets a raw deal from those who judged him solely on his stint for England. Did well at Boro, I'd argue Croatia and Russia were better than England, to be fair to him he went out to a small club in Holland to rebuild his reputation and built a winning side pissing all over Jols Ajax. Negative in Germany but still he is young, innovative, experienced and has contacts all over Europe. Hughton would be more of a long term project. I'm coming around to Allardyce I must say.
No point going for a cheque book manager next time.
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Whether or not you agree with him, to introduce these rules now, at the start of the biggest 8 games since football began in 1992 just smacks of absolute and utter pettiness, tetchiness and any other ness you want to throw into the mix. This is yet another extraordinarily ill judged faux pas on the manager's part.
If you look at the 8 players, you could argue that 6 at least would be leaving anyway, but we need them NOW so to piss them off at this stage defies any form of understanding at all.
I actually think there was slightly more harmony in the dressing room under McNeil than there is now and that is saying something.
Don't you think the papers might be doing just a little bit of shit-stirring here? Let's not fall victim to the nonsense of tabloid journalism. They want a story, they want a crisis club. Houllier and Villa are perfect fodder for a crisis club story. Let's not fall for it.
Fall for what exactly. You are not talking to one of your children.
Exaggerated possibly but with a lot of truth in it I would suggest, they quote specifics around fines etc, etc.
I can well believe the buffoon would introduce a regime like this and at this ill timed moment.
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I think McClaren gets a raw deal from those who judged him solely on his stint for England
Opening myself up to ridicule here, but I agree.
Not that he'd be my first choice for Villa, just that he's nowhere near as bad as he's been painted in the media.
Trouble is, I couldn't bear the thought of him giving interview to Pat Murphy in some kind of dodgy West Midland accent
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I think McClaren gets a raw deal from those who judged him solely on his stint for England
Opening myself up to ridicule here, but I agree.
Not that he'd be my first choice for Villa, just that he's nowhere near as bad as he's been painted in the media.
Trouble is, I couldn't bear the thought of him giving interview to Pat Murphy in some kind of dodgy West Midland accent
His record is not too bad in honesty but he wouldnt be on my 5 man shortlist , it would be , coyle, moyes , jol, hughes and grayson.
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His record is not too bad in honesty but he wouldnt be on my 5 man shortlist , it would be , coyle, moyes , jol, hughes and grayson
a fair shortlist
Except for Hughes, in my opinion, who I think is as overrated as McLaren is underrated.
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Grayson is a good shout, but would he leave Leeds to come here? Hate to say it, but if relegated, whats the difference? 2 Fallen giants.
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Grayson is a good shout, but would he leave Leeds to come here? Hate to say it, but if relegated, whats the difference? 2 Fallen giants.
oh nuninho, you heartbreaker , youve gone and mentioned the R word!
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Sorry!
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Grayson is a good shout, but would he leave Leeds to come here? Hate to say it, but if relegated, whats the difference? 2 Fallen giants.
What's the difference?
Christ, where to start.
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Why has he introduced these rules now, what the fk has been going on all season.
I can see no point whatsoever in protesting now, surely we want the team to stay up.
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Please remind who exactly appointed the current manager? if you are saying the current manager is to blame , do you not therefore think the man who appointed him or had a big say in it is also to blame?
what do i expect PF to do? Appoint a manager to take the club forwards to be quite frank.
E I aDIO , if you happy with PF and the job hes done that is your choice .
Ah, who to blame. So you are saying that the appointment of GH was the sole choice of PF and what has happened subsequently shows that he is to blame and out of his depth.
This might stand up if GH had been seen as an incompetent choice but his record gave no indication that this was the case. The fact that GH is still with us is also presumably PF's decision, but when you are a CEO you need to have balls despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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Grayson is a good shout, but would he leave Leeds to come here? Hate to say it, but if relegated, whats the difference? 2 Fallen giants.
What's the difference?
Christ, where to start.
I was referring to Grayson, a Leeds fan. Whilst we all know the difference would he?
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I said we should have got Grayson when MO'N left.
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Please remind who exactly appointed the current manager? if you are saying the current manager is to blame , do you not therefore think the man who appointed him or had a big say in it is also to blame?
what do i expect PF to do? Appoint a manager to take the club forwards to be quite frank.
E I aDIO , if you happy with PF and the job hes done that is your choice .
Ah, who to blame. So you are saying that the appointment of GH was the sole choice of PF and what has happened subsequently shows that he is to blame and out of his depth.
This might stand up if GH had been seen as an incompetent choice but his record gave no indication that this was the case. The fact that GH is still with us is also presumably PF's decision, but when you are a CEO you need to have balls despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Not all blame lies at faulkners door, but along with randy, ged,mon and the players he is far from blameless.
As for having the balls, it takes more balls to admit things are wrong and hold your hands up and put them right, you e i adio seem happy with him so thats your choice.
we must agree to differ in our opinion of things.
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This might stand up if GH had been seen as an incompetent choice but his record gave no indication that this was the case. The fact that GH is still with us is also presumably PF's decision, but when you are a CEO you need to have balls despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I agree to an extent.
For instance when a manager buys a player everyone is happy with (for example Bent) then that has to be remembered when the inevitable calling for his head comes if that signing doesn't work out. The difference here is that NOBODY was talking about Gezza as the right man for the job at the time. Yes, some looked on the bright side once he came and bought into the presumed logic behind the club's decision, but he was far from seen as the 'right' man by anyone outside the board.
I think they were right to back him in January and to not pull the trigger now, but ultimately they need to review his first season come the summer and ask as honestly and objectively as they can "Is this working?"
I don't think it is.
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Please remind who exactly appointed the current manager? if you are saying the current manager is to blame , do you not therefore think the man who appointed him or had a big say in it is also to blame?
what do i expect PF to do? Appoint a manager to take the club forwards to be quite frank.
E I aDIO , if you happy with PF and the job hes done that is your choice .
Ah, who to blame. So you are saying that the appointment of GH was the sole choice of PF and what has happened subsequently shows that he is to blame and out of his depth.
This might stand up if GH had been seen as an incompetent choice but his record gave no indication that this was the case. The fact that GH is still with us is also presumably PF's decision, but when you are a CEO you need to have balls despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Not all blame lies at faulkners door, but along with randy, ged,mon and the players he is far from blameless.
As for having the balls, it takes more balls to admit things are wrong and hold your hands up and put them right, you e i adio seem happy with him so thats your choice.
we must agree to differ in our opinion of things.
I can't say that I'm happy or unhappy with him individually, since I just don't know enough to make that type of decision. This doesn't mean I'm happy with the position we're in obviously, but my point is, we don't know that PF hasn't admitted that he made a mistake and has now made the decision to stick with him until the end of the season as the alternative would be worse. The fact is that we just don't know the facts, which was my original point.
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Grayson is a good shout, but would he leave Leeds to come here? Hate to say it, but if relegated, whats the difference? 2 Fallen giants.
What's the difference?
Christ, where to start.
I was referring to Grayson, a Leeds fan. Whilst we all know the difference would he?
I'd imagine he can work out the difference between working for Randy Lerner and working for Ken Bates plus a handful of mysterious figures who refuse to be identified.
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There is an unbelievable amount of people on here that are dying for us to lose the next game just so they can come on and rant for days on end. However, it appears that some of you actually are wallowing in this, wanting the situation to get worse. Just so you can say once again what a complete wanker Houllier is and how the club is a complete disaster.
What a load of bollocks. I want Houiller gone, we're 1 point off relegation in case you had'nt noticed, but i want us to win up at Everton next week to help get ourselves out of it and i think you'll find the majority of people on here do too.
is it bollocks? Do you think a protest will serve any purpose? Those are the people who are dying for us to lose because it only adds support to their agenda. I'm not contesting whether people have an opinion on Houllier. I'm stating that a protest will be entirely counter productive.
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There is an unbelievable amount of people on here that are dying for us to lose the next game just so they can come on and rant for days on end. However, it appears that some of you actually are wallowing in this, wanting the situation to get worse. Just so you can say once again what a complete wanker Houllier is and how the club is a complete disaster.
What a load of bollocks. I want Houiller gone, we're 1 point off relegation in case you had'nt noticed, but i want us to win up at Everton next week to help get ourselves out of it and i think you'll find the majority of people on here do too.
is it bollocks? Do you think a protest will serve any purpose? Those are the people who are dying for us to lose because it only adds support to their agenda. I'm not contesting whether people have an opinion on Houllier. I'm stating that a protest will be entirely counter productive.
No, i don't think a protest is a good idea, i said that yesterday. The way you worded you post (if you read it again) it came across that you thought people on this site wanted us to lose in order to protest, and whilst i can't speak for every single person, i think you'll find the majority of people on here don't want that at all.
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There is an unbelievable amount of people on here that are dying for us to lose the next game just so they can come on and rant for days on end. However, it appears that some of you actually are wallowing in this, wanting the situation to get worse. Just so you can say once again what a complete wanker Houllier is and how the club is a complete disaster.
What a load of bollocks. I want Houiller gone, we're 1 point off relegation in case you had'nt noticed, but i want us to win up at Everton next week to help get ourselves out of it and i think you'll find the majority of people on here do too.
is it bollocks? Do you think a protest will serve any purpose? Those are the people who are dying for us to lose because it only adds support to their agenda. I'm not contesting whether people have an opinion on Houllier. I'm stating that a protest will be entirely counter productive.
No, i don't think a protest is a good idea, i said that yesterday. The way you worded you post (if you read it again) it came across that you thought people on this site wanted us to lose in order to protest, and whilst i can't speak for every single person, i think you'll find the majority of people on here don't want that at all.
I agree. In fact most people think the protest is a stupid idea. But there are people on here that want us to lose naively thinking it will facilitate Houllier's removal. Certainly people planning the protest think that somehow the board will listen to them and sack the manager at the earliest opportunity.
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for me, its about getting to the end of the season, and staying up. whether its 1point, 10 points or goal difference that splits us from the bottom three, im really not that concernced. If its goal difference, a lot of things will be discussed. I think the owner, and the manager want considerably more than this going forward, and will rebuild, tinker, evolve or shipout the squad to achieve this. If Houllier is deemed the man, then let him get at it. If he sets a high discipline regime, then ship out the guys that dont agree to it, and move on. I think more fuss is being made about it than actually happens. I could cheerfully insert a mobile into a "texter" during meetings in any from a number of orifices. I dont allow it during meetings etc, and my team get paid considerably less than the footballers and agree to it. I think Hou is right on this, but im not all that concerned about it, i am however concerned about getting some points on the board, and I think all of those players are too really
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Let's face facts, if we lose at Everton the only thing it will facilitate is our chance of relegation. The only thing that matters right now is for the fans to give whatever support they can to the team in the hope that they'll hear it and show some modicum of the skill we know they have. Everything else must take a back seat until we are sure we're safe.
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There is an unbelievable amount of people on here that are dying for us to lose the next game just so they can come on and rant for days on end. However, it appears that some of you actually are wallowing in this, wanting the situation to get worse. Just so you can say once again what a complete wanker Houllier is and how the club is a complete disaster.
What a load of bollocks. I want Houiller gone, we're 1 point off relegation in case you had'nt noticed, but i want us to win up at Everton next week to help get ourselves out of it and i think you'll find the majority of people on here do too.
is it bollocks? Do you think a protest will serve any purpose? Those are the people who are dying for us to lose because it only adds support to their agenda. I'm not contesting whether people have an opinion on Houllier. I'm stating that a protest will be entirely counter productive.
No, i don't think a protest is a good idea, i said that yesterday. The way you worded you post (if you read it again) it came across that you thought people on this site wanted us to lose in order to protest, and whilst i can't speak for every single person, i think you'll find the majority of people on here don't want that at all.
I agree. In fact most people think the protest is a stupid idea. But there are people on here that want us to lose naively thinking it will facilitate Houllier's removal. Certainly people planning the protest think that somehow the board will listen to them and sack the manager at the earliest opportunity.
Clampy, there might not be many but there has been a few who have said they want us to lose, I'm sure it's in the Hope thread. Quite unbelievable really.
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I am all for free speech and people being entitled to their opinions, but anybody in favour of organised protests or demonstrations because of our present predicament is a complete and utter idiot, totally wrong in their actions and themselves show a total lack of understanding of the history of Aston Villa.
We have players underperforming and a manager who on the present evidence is not doing an effective job so our team are losing games. Yes thats horrible and I hate it, but the club itself is not disorganised or badly run. The team on the pitch may be rudderless right now, but the club itself is not.
Boo and moan during the match if you dont like what you see, boo them off at half time if you dont like the 1st half, not my style but its an emotional game. Boo them off at the end and scream verbals at the bench at full time if its bad, now that is something I've done on more than one occasion this season.
But planning and organising demonstrations because the team is losing at the moment ? Do me a favour !
We had demonstrations a few years back because Doug wouldnt let go, and it was obvious to many of us that this was increasingly holding the club back. That was justified.
In 1968 the club was rotten from top to bottom and on the verge of bankrupty from years of neglect by directors who were living in the past. Demonstrations then were not just necessary, they were imperative to the survival of the club. The club was saved and a new era began and we avoided relegation that season. But the next season the team imploded and spectacularly went backwards on the pitch. Just as now, there was reports of player unrest and fall outs with the manager. Just put the name Docherty instead of Houllier, think Mike Ferguson, Dick Edwards, Barry Hole instead of Ireland, Collins, Dunne. Nobody talked of demonstrating, even though we finished up in the 3rd division. Because we knew the basics of the club itself were right.
So to the attention seeking big mouths who seem to be almost revelling in each defeat as they plan protest and revolution, I say shut up. Shut up because you dont cheer in equal volume when we win as you boo when we lose, shut up because you never give credit where its due in equal measure with the criticism you dish out, but most of all shut up because I suspect you are mostly spoilt brats who have known nothing but the premier league and like many modern fans you have no patience and at the first hint of problems you start crying.
how anyone can say the club isnt badly run after the release of the recent accounts is off their rocker frankly.
88% of turnover gone on wages.
Unprecedented debt and massive losses
has anyone ever really explained the sale of land last year either by RAL?
A CEO way out of his depth
Disastrous choice of manager
The above is not the fault of MON but those charged with running the finances of the club ie the board.
On the playing side
A squad - the most expensive ever assembled by the club - 3 points from bottom of the worst EPL season in terms of quality I can remember
A squad most likely without any relegation clauses into their salaries
A squad top heavy with players in which we will take a huge loss on if they are sold in the summer
Best player leaving in summer
The most expensive manager ever brought in has been a disaster and the vast majority of players/supporters have no faith in him even keeping us up never mind chasing Europe.
The only positives I can think is that the youth academy continues to produce talent capable of playing in the EPL and also that we have a great training ground.
No point burying our heads in the ground. The club is in big trouble and relegation for the clubs finances would be disastrous. Every other club whose new manager presided over such a shambles would also be up in arms.
Whilst I'm not advocating the 'p' word, you make some very good points.
Certainly there is more merit in that than slaughtering fellow fans, or taking a meandering stroll down memory lane.
Whichever angle you take on the Houllier issue, at least accept that if other supporters feel different and want to voice their concerns they're no less of a Villa fan for doing so. Or that they somehow by their actions want to see the club struggle.
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No villa fans want to see the club struggle
Many think the time is now to change the manager
If they plan a peaceful march to voice this opinion I don't see any issue
Only fans who choose to go will be there
Free country isn't it
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No villa fans want to see the club struggle
Many think the time is now to change the manager
If they plan a peaceful march to voice this opinion I don't see any issue
Only fans who choose to go will be there
Free country isn't it
Is that a poem?
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No villa fans want to see the club struggle
Many think the time is now to change the manager
If they plan a peaceful march to voice this opinion I don't see any issue
Only fans who choose to go will be there
Free country isn't it
Is that a poem?
If it is it's bloody rubbish.
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No villa fans want to see the club struggle
Many think the time is now to change the manager
If they plan a peaceful march to voice this opinion I don't see any issue
Only fans who choose to go will be there
Free country isn't it
Is that a poem?
If it is it's bloody rubbish.
Its a shit limerick.
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The thing is there are a number of clubs below us and, to the best of my knowledge, their fans aren't protesting or producing banners. As a consequence the media aren't focusing on them or stirring up trouble. Negativity will not help our club one iota, it will simply ramp up the pressure on the players. We need to lift the lads - some of them are very young - and get them playing with passion, with confidence and pride. Back them to the hilt.
Get positive, get behind the club and let's focus on finishing the season as high up the table as possible. We can debate managers after the final ball has been kicked. There's nearly a quarter of the season left to play - let's climb that table.
This.
Protest? Absolutely fucking pathetic.
If we stamp our feet and moan it won't make any difference. They will not sack Houllier because of what we think. They don't need us to tell them it has been a bad season and that he has done a poor job. If they did they would be as spineless as they were stupid for not seeing it.
I can only see protests having a negative effect and serving to make us look like a bunch of stupid childish arseholes.
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See to me this talk of protests, fans turning on each other, players not caring/not shouldering responsibility are all symptomatic of a club in bother.
Luckily in our case, it doesn't cut too deep. The foundations are reasonably sound. Correct the problem at source.
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The thing is there are a number of clubs below us and, to the best of my knowledge, their fans aren't protesting or producing banners. As a consequence the media aren't focusing on them or stirring up trouble. Negativity will not help our club one iota, it will simply ramp up the pressure on the players. We need to lift the lads - some of them are very young - and get them playing with passion, with confidence and pride. Back them to the hilt.
Get positive, get behind the club and let's focus on finishing the season as high up the table as possible. We can debate managers after the final ball has been kicked. There's nearly a quarter of the season left to play - let's climb that table.
This.
Protest? Absolutely fucking pathetic.
If we stamp our feet and moan it won't make any difference. They will not sack Houllier because of what we think. They don't need us to tell them it has been a bad season and that he has done a poor job. If they did they would be as spineless as they were stupid for not seeing it.
I can only see protests having a negative effect and serving to make us look like a bunch of stupid childish arseholes.
What are these placards going to actually say?
"STOP BEING SHIT"
"SCORE MORE GOALS!"
"DEFEND SET PIECES!"
"WATCH OUT FOR CORNERS!"
"PERCY SAYS THIS ISN'T EVEN ZONAL MARKING, HOULLIER!"
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"THIS IS A SHEET"
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I AM AN ATTENTION-SEEKER
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"PERCY SAYS THIS ISN'T EVEN ZONAL MARKING, HOULLIER!"
Must say that one has tickled me no end.
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CHANGE THE CHANNEL, MUM
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"PERCY SAYS THIS ISN'T EVEN ZONAL MARKING, HOULLIER!"
Any idea where I can get a 'PERCY SAYS' T shirt?
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I AM AN ATTENTION-SEEKER
Why is calling for the worst manager for decades to be replaced attention seeking
Just because you don't agree ??
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I AM AN ATTENTION-SEEKER
Why is calling for the worst manager for decades to be replaced attention seeking
Just because you don't agree ??
Because you are marching round like a twat with a placard on TV screaming look at me?
I want Houllier gone but I shan't be marching from a pub I was going to to a match I was going to because his record speaks for itself. Fans marching WILL NOT be likely to affect their decision.
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Fans with a different opinion to you are not twats as you so eloquently put it
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Yes but they do not have a different opinion to me.
Their being twats stems from their decision to protest (a probably futile protest) over a relatively trivial matter.
There are far better reasons to be protesting at the moment. The price of petrol, the asterity measures, public sector job losses etc.
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WE'RE NOT FICKLE WE'LL JUST STOP IF WE WIN TODAY
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I AM AN ATTENTION-SEEKER
Why is calling for the worst manager for decades to be replaced attention seeking
Just because you don't agree ??
Because you are marching round like a twat with a placard on TV screaming look at me?
Well, precisely. Unless he's thinking of a cunning new type of protest - one that doesn't want to get noticed.
Like that one the noses had the other week. The one we were all laughing at. That one.
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If you're going to have a banner, which I'm not that arsed either way about, at least make it a good one. Leighton's was a good example, because it was witty and turned O'Leary's words back on him.
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If you're going to have a banner, which I'm not that arsed either way about, at least make it a good one. Leighton's was a good example, because it was witty and turned O'Leary's words back on him.
Hmmm.
So something like
STOP SMIRKING YOU BOGGLY EYED MENTALIST
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What about 'sorry, but we are fickle'
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What positive do you think protesting is going to achieve?
It will get their ugly mugs on TV and a few column inches in the paper. That is all they are interested in, it's about themselves nothing to do with the Villa.
You think ?
If Fear is involved its only with his mate at Villa Parks knowledge, that's for certain.
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Yes but they do not have a different opinion to me.
Their being twats stems from their decision to protest (a probably futile protest) over a relatively trivial matter.
There are far better reasons to be protesting at the moment. The price of petrol, the asterity measures, public sector job losses etc.
That Houlliers fault too then ?
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If you're going to have a banner, which I'm not that arsed either way about, at least make it a good one. Leighton's was a good example, because it was witty and turned O'Leary's words back on him.
"We're not fickle, and we don't like you, either"
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DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
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DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
Easy now!
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GO OR WE'LL SCREAM & SCREAM & SCREAM
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O'LEARY IN!
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What positive do you think protesting is going to achieve?
It will get their ugly mugs on TV and a few column inches in the paper. That is all they are interested in, it's about themselves nothing to do with the Villa.
You think ?
If Fear is involved its only with his mate at Villa Parks knowledge, that's for certain.
The Zen of Malcolm. Good to have it back.
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DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
Easy now!
Ahem...
(http://valdefierro.com/fted008.jpg)
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Why is calling for the worst manager for decades to be replaced attention seeking
Just because you don't agree ??
I've told you a million times before not to exaggerate.
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If you're going to have a banner, which I'm not that arsed either way about, at least make it a good one. Leighton's was a good example, because it was witty and turned O'Leary's words back on him.
Hmmm.
So something like
STOP SMIRKING YOU BOGGLY EYED MENTALIST
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5052/gerardhoullier.jpg) (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/gerardhoullier.jpg/)
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If you're going to have a banner, which I'm not that arsed either way about, at least make it a good one. Leighton's was a good example, because it was witty and turned O'Leary's words back on him.
Hmmm.
So something like
STOP SMIRKING YOU BOGGLY EYED MENTALIST
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5052/gerardhoullier.jpg) (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/gerardhoullier.jpg/)
The flak gets too much, so Gerard has a lie down.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/images/episode/b00f32pn_640_360.jpg
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The atmosphere will be fantastic at everton ,,,,,, have we sold all tickets yet ?
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houllier should go now.... but cant help feeling sorry for him though,,,,, todays footballers dont give a fuck about anything or anyone but themselves..... over paid over inflated egos, wheres the professional pride gone?? wheres the passion? in there bank accounts.... i love the villa but cant get close to any players anymore
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houllier should go now.... but cant help feeling sorry for him though,,,,, todays footballers dont give a fuck about anything or anyone but themselves..... over paid over inflated egos, wheres the professional pride gone?? wheres the passion? in there bank accounts.... i love the villa but cant get close to any players anymore
Agreed, but part of the job description in modern football management is motivating these multi-millionaire wankers. GH is evidently lacking in this respect.
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Fans with a different opinion to you are not twats as you so eloquently put it
Some of them are.
If there is a protest it will be divisive on a day when we should all be getting behind the team. If you can't see that then you are extremely stupid.
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If you're going to have a banner, which I'm not that arsed either way about, at least make it a good one. Leighton's was a good example, because it was witty and turned O'Leary's words back on him.
Hmmm.
So something like
STOP SMIRKING YOU BOGGLY EYED MENTALIST
Exactly like that, yes. Right, where's me bed sheet?
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Fans with a different opinion to you are not twats as you so eloquently put it
Some of them are.
If there is a protest it will be divisive on a day when we should all be getting behind the team. If you can't see that then you are extremely stupid.
i dont think wiki is stupid but he cares and loves his club, i just dont think theres anything to be achieved by protesting-misguided i would call it.
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For the record I won't be protesting myself, however those who feel strongly enough, fine, it's a free country, good luck to them, I understand why they're so frustrated and why thy feel the timing is right to do it sooner rather than later
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For the record I won't be protesting myself, however those who feel strongly enough, fine, it's a free country, good luck to them, I understand why they're so frustrated and why thy feel the timing is right to do it sooner rather than later
You can see from on here how the idea of protests divides people. Imagine that on a match day as everyone comes out of the pubs. We'll see fans having a go at each other rather than supporting the side.
Having the right to do something isn't the same as it being the right thing to do.
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The worst part of our club going through bad times is all the fucking self publicists crawling out of the woodwork.
They're quiet when we do well. When we need support they twist the knife in. I want a change of manager too but I'm not going to say that beyond an internet message board. The team needs our support now more than ever.