Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2010, 10:21:04 AM
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I don't know if anyone else has been watching this today, but I have made the mistake to. They are being incredibly disrespectful about Villa. They are banging on about M'ON being the best asset to the club. Some Muppet from the Daily Mirror also referred to the General as 'Colonel Tom'. Also apparently it's impossible to follow O'Neill because he massively overachieved. They are also painting Randy as some sort of tyrant, who has been unreasonable. I am now absolutely fuming, and apparently O'Neill spent nowhere near what the 'top 4' spent in his time at the club.
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Then take comfort in the fact that they are ignorant, have no knowledge about our club.
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I watched it as well. Earlier, it had said 'Thriller at Villa', but in the end it was just Villa & RAL taking a pasting. Terrible journalism, really, as I expected them to have a better understanding of the Club.
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Being discussed here:
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=39765.msg1555697#new
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
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Yup - I saw it and it made my piss boil.
Totally disrespectful to the General, Randy and AVFC in general. Utter drivel. Apparently MON was our "biggest asset" and "established us as a top 6 side". The club have resorted to "propaganda" with the General's and Randy's comments.
After the third or fourth "lack of ambition" and "selling club" I turned off.
I'm not anti MON, and I think we will struggle to get another manager of his quality in the near future, but this was utter, uninformed drivel and made me grateful that my remote has an "off" button :)
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Of course, it was O'Neill's team yesterday. No, it was O'Neill's squad - there's a difference you fucking clowns.
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I don't bother with stuff like that. They won't be as informed about the club as I will through this site, so there's no point.
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Just remember a proportion of folks on here @ 2.59 yesterday would probably have agreed with them ....
Only those who saw past the MON spin saw the inherrant problems at the club and that they were mainly of MON's making apart from the lack of unexhaustable funds.
I have to say I am shocked by the standard of the Tabloid Press sports journalism, ill informed, blatently wrong or total lies and their journlists do not seem able to put two sentances together in a coherrant manner.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
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I'm not saying that M'ON should be burned at the stake, he did some good things at the club, but it was time to go. The 'journalists' on the Sunday Supplement were unbelievably one sided. The bloke who kept saying look at Martin improving assets like Ashley Young and Milner, which is correct. However against those two there is Sidwell, Harewood, Davies, Shorey. The bloke from the Mirror was a disgrace.
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i think they were being nice to oneill so if he does speak out they might get "exclusive"
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utter utter shite from ill informed brain dead agenda filled morons...
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I can't think of anything worse than watching a programme like that. They write enough shit in their papers, without having to listen to them talk it.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
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As for the show, its was typical sycophantic nosnense from O’Neill’s media cronies, who hadn’t watched the game. Hence why they were able to spout the ridiculous line of “oh, they on;y won because it was O’Neill’s team”- yes, thankfully playing nothing like O’Neill’s team, but more akin to Big Fat Ron’s.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
I remember Bolton and Hull being complete walkovers but you forget during the Burnley game that we started incredibly badly, went a goal down and there was massive discontent in the stands at half-time. I was talking to a couple of chaps that day who were season ticket holders and they weren't going to bother with the League Cup Final because of the way we were playing and had generally played under O'Neill. I myself didn't mind the way we played but I'm switched on enough to know that I was in a minority that was decreasing all the time.
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Burnley was a brilliant 10-15 minutes. Whatever. We played well under O'Neill, mainly away from home and only occasionally at B6. But we never played with such freedom, movement or vigour.
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Whilst we were dire at home for most of the last couple of seasons, to say we never surpassed yesterday's match is jus wrong.
Birmingham 5-1, Bolton 5-1 last season, 1-0 at Old Trafford, 2-1 against Chelsea at VP, 2-0 at Stamford Bridge, 5-0 against Derby. Plenty of emphatic wins against poor sides, and some excellent displays against the top teams. It went sour towards the end, but we weren't always shit under O'Neill, far from it.
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As I said, we never played in the manner we did yesterday, despite having played well.
Away from home it was a different kettle of fish.
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I do think Oliver Holt has an unbelievably punchable face.
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I am surprised you can see his face, its lodged so far up O'Neill's arse.
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Luckily I didn't watch it but there was similar drivel from Terry venables in his column in the sun, he said we were not ever going to be a top 4 club and we would now be a selling club.
I just threw it in the bin.
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You always have to understand the context of SS comments. MON is a respected and popular figure amongst football correspondents.Firstly their judgement will be coloured by what he has told them. Secondly they will regret losing him from "the circuit".
I thought that their comments ref " the general" were offensive.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
Yes we have and you know it. You seem to be trying so hard to hide that fact that you were until a week ago a big fan of O'Neill's that you've lost control of your senses.
He dropped us in it by walking out when he did, no excuses for that but it's ridiculous to attempt to rewrite history to suit a mood.
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No we didn’t. We played well, but never in the manner we played yesterday.
I was a fan of O’Neill. I’d temper my friend’s angst towards him by mentioning results. It also helps that I follow the Villa away so had the benefit of our away performances that others didn’t. But a lot has changed in 7 days and one event in particular that has completely coloured my judgement of O’Neill.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
Yes we have and you know it. You seem to be trying so hard to hide that fact that you were until a week ago a big fan of O'Neill's that you've lost control of your senses.
He dropped us in it by walking out when he did, no excuses for that but it's ridiculous to attempt to rewrite history to suit a mood.
The unique thing about yesterday is we performed well for 90 minutes. Very few teams, never mind MON's teams, can achieve that level of dominance.
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The otehr difference with yesterday was it not being us on the break that got the goals. Even after going 1 up we did not resort to playing on the counter which was our 1 tactic under O'Neill. The Blues 5-1 is the only time I recall us dominating quite as much in a game.We have certainly not passed and moved, and crossed, and interchanged as well as yesterday since we mauled Blues. MON had tactically become so narrow minded with his style there was not freedom. In his first 2 years he was more flexible.
Anyone mentioning Bolton 5-1 last season is frankly mad. The team selection was forced on MON and it was almost a performance in spite of him.
Journalists having a sly pop at the board are completely in the wrong IMO. Martin has screwed us 5 days before the season. He was their little pet, and are simply bitter that one of their mates has walked. Toys, pram, thrown.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
Of course we have. Plenty of times. You choose to not remember it though because you don't like MON.
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Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
with comments suggesting the General did RL's dirty work I can believe that. To think I get accused of showing disrespect to the General.
That sort of journalism is made possible by there being little or no 'answer' from Villa Park. Had they suspected an intelligent tirade in reply they would have shown more caution in making such statements.
But then when fans think the General is doing 'dirty work' in trying to countermand such shit what can you expect.
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The otehr difference with yesterday was it not being us on the break that got the goals. Even after going 1 up we did not resort to playing on the counter which was our 1 tactic under O'Neill. The Blues 5-1 is the only time I recall us dominating quite as much in a game.We have certainly not passed and moved, and crossed, and interchanged as well as yesterday since we mauled Blues. MON had tactically become so narrow minded with his style there was not freedom. In his first 2 years he was more flexible.
Anyone mentioning Bolton 5-1 last season is frankly mad. The team selection was forced on MON and it was almost a performance in spite of him.
Passing it about to "Ole" was fun, too. It's been a while since we've had a number of gears to choose from.
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Sunday supplement are arse licking MON. They really haven't got a clue what there on about!
I'm watching that, too. Dismal, dismal 'reporting'.
Pretty jaw-dropping stuff from Oliver Holt, Paul Hayward and John Richardson.
On the one hand they were dismissive of the General's remark that O'Neill thought he was bigger than the club, and then on the other hand ramming home their opinion that O'Neill was the club's biggest asset, that he did a fantastic job, that there is no way we'll finish 6th without him and that following him is now the worst job in football.
The fact that Milner and Young are now worth more than we paid for them was offered as a justification for the £120M spend. No mention of the millions wanked away on highly paid players whom he never selected.
Richardson also trotted out the line that O'Neill has the touch of Clough about him, citing Clough as a manager who upset players but won trophies, without mentioning the fact that O'Neill won nothing for us.
Having previously lauded Lerner to the heavens for being an enlightened owner, he was strongly criticised for having lost his nerve, tightened the purse strings too far, and in doing so lost the best thing Villa had going for them.
A load of old bollocks from the pro-O'Neill lobbyists (i.e. the press).
I'm so glad i'm not the only one. Oliver Holt was completely embaressed himself today, I don't know if he had a run in with the General at some point in the past, but huge disrespect to the general and the club. No not even be bothered to call him by his proper name to and ask who is he anyway was disgusting!
And to say the club has show little respect for O'Neil.... Who the f**k walk out 5 days before the start of the season?
I think i was O'Neil who has show little respect for us as a club and a set of fans. You just dont do things that way.
Also to say it's just the same team o'neil usually field shows to me i dont think they even saw the game before talking about it. Petrov actually moved above the halfway line, we say Clarke, Albrighton, NRC, Luck Young, Weimann, bannan. These plays didnt feature under O'Neil at all!!
It was a great game, full of promise, full of DEPTH, one think O'neil said we didn't have. The youth coming through is very exciting, as we al know it is but for some reason O'Neil just didnt want to use it.
Just show's the myth O'Neil has about himself and the way that if you arse lick the press they'll love you forever, not matter what your faults are
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Sicne the day O'Neill arrived at Villa his buddies in the national media have been waiting for this. They could never understand why he joined us when he, one of their circuit, could have gone to one of their clubs. He was always too good for us, we were never grateful, and allowing him to leave without begging him to stay is the act of supreme ingratitude.
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I do think Oliver Holt has an unbelievably punchable face.
My bruised knuckles and cracked television screen can certainly vouch for that.
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Oliver Holt was completely embaressed himself today
I really dislike him and having seen him on the programme a couple of times before I don't think he's popular with other journalists either. They're entitled to their opinions just like anyone else but the Colonel Tom thing was just pathetic.
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They call us villa fans fickle. Aren't these the same set of jurno's that last season where appauding Lerner and the board for the model way in which a foreign owner should run a football club.
The same set of jurno's who now say he dosnt have a clue, naive and showing disrespect.
That programme was laughable today. They were all just pissed off that we had a good game, played great without a manager and it hasn't blown up in our faces.
Saying villa must be one of the worst jobs to take now after oneil is pathetic. Any potential manager would have watched yesterday and got very excited at what he has gotto work with.
As my one mate screamed in the 78th minute down at villa park
"this is amazing to watch. It's IT'S football porn!"
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Must be a tough life, being paid to spout bollocks about football. I long for the day when football reporting is done with nothing but fact and statistic.
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It was said on here that David O'Leary had the attitude that if it wasn't for him we'd have been in the Conference, and put the point over at every opportunity. I get the impression that O'Neill thought exactly the same, but did it more subtly and allowed his media contacts to do the work for him.
The ironic thing is that this time last week those reporters wouldn't have known the first thing about Marc Albrighton, the general or what Kevin MacDonald's been up to for the past eleven years.
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the pundits on the tv who say martin oneils a goog manager havnt been seing the villa every home game for the past 18 months,totally boreing tactically neive
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It was said on here that David O'Leary had the attitude that if it wasn't for him we'd have been in the Conference, and put the point over at every opportunity. I get the impression that O'Neill thought exactly the same, but did it more subtly and allowed his media contacts to do the work for him.
I've said it elsewhere that DOL and MON were in fact very similar in their regard for Villa. They were both egocentric to the point of obnoxiousness, except MON had a little more intelligence about him, perhaps a little more charm (call it a self-cultivated air of the enigmatic eccentric 'genius'). The difference was that DOL really didn't have much backing, financial or otherwise, from the then decrepit and floundering Doug Ellis; yet MON had all the backing and freedom he could possibly want from Randy, right up until his (MON's) repeated mistakes and pig-headed stubbornness began to reveal cracks in his media-engineered veneer. If MON had suffered a quarter of the crap DOL had to deal with, the rattle, dummy and teddy bear would have been jettisoned from that pram a long time ago.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
Of course we have. Plenty of times. You choose to not remember it though because you don't like MON.
Stop talking bollocks, I was an O'Neill fan.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
Of course we have. Plenty of times. You choose to not remember it though because you don't like MON.
Stop talking bollocks, I was an O'Neill fan.
Well then you can't have got to many games.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
Of course we have. Plenty of times. You choose to not remember it though because you don't like MON.
Stop talking bollocks, I was an O'Neill fan.
Well then you can't have got to many games.
The only games I have not been present at under O’Neill were Litex away, the Icelandic side away and Moscow away, so try again.
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Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
That's not quite right. There's a clip that's been seen on this site (well the previous incarnation), I think Legion posts it, where we played some brilliant pass and move stuff against Bolton(? I think) from a couple of years ago, and with full access to an archive of Villa footage from the last 4 years I guarantee you could put together a DVD that makes us look like world beaters. It was those little glimpses of brilliance that kept me supporting mon, I was hoping that he'd seen them and was trying to build a structure where we could bring that to the fore.
Watching yesterday makes me think that maybe those sparks were the players breaking out of their shackles rather than anything else however.
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we mustnt forget ,with all these sunday supplements are london anti villa anyway,against west ham the players showed they are glad hes gone
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I think MON has a much more respectful view of Villa than DOL did, and it is harsh to suggest otherwise
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watch it here (http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,13989,00.html)
Just watched and they really are talking shite. We can't do it but I'd love to see the club just say right, we're not dealing with oliver holt until he writes a formal apology to the general.
I particularly liked the fact that they kept saying how one sided everything is against mon and that he should make a statement. He couldn't state his case any better than any of them have done for the last week.
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I think MON has a much more respectful view of Villa than DOL did, and it is harsh to suggest otherwise
He definitely did have, but he still loved to portray the image that we should be grateful to him for managing us.
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Oh, I definitely agree with that.
Both of them have an enormous self regard.
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One of them showed absolutely zero respect for the club and fans by walking out 5 days before a season was due to begin, and it wasn't DOL.
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Yep caught a bit of that. Nearly made me want to puke my breakfast up.
Two seasons of dire football at home. O'Neill leaves. Inspired display of inventive, clever football ensues. You'd think the thick bastards would notice that, but no.
As I said on the match thread we did the same to Burnley, Hull and Bolton last season. If we start playing like that every week then you'll have a point but at the moment it's one result against a shit side.
Very one-sided opinions I thought from the journalists and Holt was particularly disrespectful but equally I'm not buying the party line that they want us to believe of Randy good, Martin bad.
Did we bollocks. We've not played like that under O'Neill.
Yes we have and you know it. You seem to be trying so hard to hide that fact that you were until a week ago a big fan of O'Neill's that you've lost control of your senses.
He dropped us in it by walking out when he did, no excuses for that but it's ridiculous to attempt to rewrite history to suit a mood.
How would you describe our home performances of the past two seasons, Chris? Not having a pop, genuinely interested.
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Judging by the thread, I am glad I missed it.
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Lazy journalist's talking usual bollox
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Oliver Holt: "This Colonel Tom is irrelevant" "Why should we take any notice of some millitary guy who has 'general' or whatever beore his name seriously". Dude's got beef with General Charles Krulak. Fair enough, Oliver Holt isn't probably aware who General Krulak is as Villa fans are who actually know his influence in the club too... but to disrespect him on TV like that is down right disrespectful.
Dickhead.
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What a load of old cock. Nothing to see here.
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Oliver Holt is only just behind Rob Shephard in the Douche bag league IMO.
As for that programme, absolute bollocks from all of them.
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Oh, I definitely agree with that.
Both of them have an enormous self regard.
May Coppell aside, which manager doesn't?
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Oliver Holt.. Can we ban that cnut from VP.... sucking O'neils c*ck and disrespting
General,Randy and AVFC. Talking aload of BS......
when twat was asked, MON has spent alot of money ,the muppet replied but he has recouped alot of it too. No mention of davies,Young,shorey,NRC,etc etc etc on big fees and wages who were not even good enough to get into that dire team at times.... and saying what we have spent is modest ..... fook off
The truth is probably , Randy has said you are not getting any more money to waste on tripe like Mcgeady and Jenas unless you get rid of these players you have bought that you are now telling me are shite.........
Live to regret it.... I regreat watching that pile of toss.... Im livid .....
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The reality is that most of the football "press" are fans of London or NW clubs, particularly Liverpool and Spurs. They look down their noses, not only at Midlands clubs, but at anything FROM the Midlands. There is a kind of racism in the national media of all kinds that portrays the Midlands as ex-industrial, suburban and boring whilst London, Manchester and Liverpool are portrayed as glamorous or cool.
If you look on this programme and every newspaper column by every bent ex-Spurs manager in this light then you'll realise that they will always be condescending, insulting or worse. But that makes me love my club even more. Up the Villa.
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Thanks for the link, Paul E. Interesting to watch.
I, like most, can abide someone opinion even if it is bollocks - these guys are on the outside looking in and I would guess would be similar to the opinion to just about any man-on-th-street. But Oliver Holt was just utterly disrepectful and absolutely owes the General an apology. You could see that he was doing all of that as MoN's lackey. No doubt. I hope that prick gets dog's abuse if he shows his face at Villa Park.
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The programme showed a couple of things.
One is O'Neill's standing in the game. the comment regarding we are now the worst job on football as someone has to follow O'Neill didn't worry Strachan too much up in Celtic - arguably a much higher pressure job than the Villa. The comment regading O'Neill always leaves clubs in a better position - again he left Celtic with a very old squad cost a huge amount in wages, something which had to be rebuilt again by Strachan a man hardly held in the sem esteem as O'Neill.
Holt and Heyward's comments stunk of people who are mates with O'Neill and probably rarely actually travelled up to villa park to watch a game of football over the lat couple of years.
O'Neill did a great job of getting the club back to competeing for a European place each year, but am I the only one who looked at what he wanted to do with the Milner money and think not again ?
We have some of the best young talent this team has produced since the days of Cowans and Shaw and yet it's so far from the first team under him. I have no idea if Albrighton or Clark will actually make it at the Villa but they deserve a chance to prove what they can do, something they weren't going to get under O'Neill.
At the end of the day O'nEill would not have acjeived any of this without Lerner bankrolling him. The other muppet on the show stated that Lerner let him spend the money. Og course he did, he had trust in him and took a back seat letting the footballing guru make all the b ig decisions - a perfedt chairman. However, when you then see what he's done after the last couple of years and looked at a subs bench that prbably played for FIFA09 on the PS3 than actually they played on grass then you can understand where, as a businessman, Lerner would actually ask for some cuts to be made.
this was a great example of lazy journalism with a bunch of guys with no real interest in the club but big mates with the manager. Very poor indeed and a great example of why I don't buy newspapers any more.
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At the end of the day O'nEill would not have acjeived any of this without Lerner bankrolling him.
Acheived what exactly? The sum total of fuck all is what.
Otherwise, a good post.
If these comments have been made as MON's mouthpiece, then he's sunk way WAY below DOL in my opinion.
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Oliver Holt is an attention seeking twat. In the past he has antagonised Reading and Blackburn fans in particular, in fact he claims to have received death threats from Reading fans.
He is a typical know it all but ultimately ignorant mancunian.
His mother happens to be the actress Eileen Derbyshire who plays the character Emily Bishop in Coronation Street. If she is anything like her character then shes a lovely lady, all the more surprising that she didnt bring her son up to have good manners and show a little bit more respect.
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At the end of the day O'nEill would not have acjeived any of this without Lerner bankrolling him.
Acheived what exactly? The sum total of fuck all is what.
Otherwise, a good post.
If these comments have been made as MON's mouthpiece, then he's sunk way WAY below DOL in my opinion.
when I said achievements, I meant taking us from where we were when DOL left to competing in the top 6. If you listened to these guys yesterday it was all down to MoN but without the support of his chairman and one of the biggest spends in the Premiership over the last 4 years we wouldn't be in the position to compete and MoN probably wouldn't have his reputation that he has in the press.
Lerner has run the club how I think a club should be run. almost quite old fashioned in a way in this modern footballing world. He has improved a lot off the park and and did a great job taking a charity as a sponsor. According to the three muppets yesterday he should have been grateful that MoN graced us with his presence.
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According to the three muppets yesterday he should have been grateful that MoN graced us with his presence.
Which is the whole crux of the matter.
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The 'Colonel Tom' comment was particularly ignorant and disgusting.
Journo's are always pulling people apart because of quote's they've made, often in haste. Mr Holt should at least apologise for that one.
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According to the three muppets yesterday he should have been grateful that MoN graced us with his presence.
Which is the whole crux of the matter.
I started a thread on this matter a couple of years ago or more. Whenever I read an article about the Villa, we would always be referred to as 'Martin O'Neill's Aston Villa', as if we were part of a franchise or something. It really pissed me off back then and shows that all the good will we received from the media was because of who was in charge. Ah, fuck 'em anyway the ignorant twats.
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The 'Colonel Tom' comment was particularly ignorant and disgusting.
Journo's are always pulling people apart because of quote's they've made, often in haste. Mr Holt should at least apologise for that one.
It wouldn't surprise me if he gets told to do one out of the pressbox next time he rocks up to VP. His next piece in the Mirror would be a great laugh.
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I had the misfortune of seeing this as well. They won't stop with these attacks you know. I am not normally someone who holds much of a view that the press are anti Villa but we will continue to get a whipping from the nationals about the former manager for some time yet.
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Brian Read's column in the Mirror this Saturday was having a pop at him, but then he's always seemed to be on MON's back for some reason.
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Brian Read's column in the Mirror this Saturday was having a pop at him, but then he's always seemed to be on MON's back for some reason.
Because he saw through the myth that has / had built up around him? That or he was probably threatened with legal action by him at some point.
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Brian Read's column in the Mirror this Saturday was having a pop at him, but then he's always seemed to be on MON's back for some reason.
Because he saw through the myth that has / had built up around him? That or he was probably threatened with legal action by him at some point.
Dunno really, but he's a Liverpool fan and never seems to say anything nice about anyone unless it's them.
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On the flipside from The Guardian's "Football Weekly" podcast, Sean Ingle says "having looked at a few Villa message boards it seems that while we London media types all take the view that O'Neill is some sort of flawed genius it seems that there's a consensus among the fans that he was starting to hold them back and that now the shackles are being removed".
To redress the balance for the three dozen people who listen to it. Every little helps.
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The 'Colonel Tom' comment was particularly ignorant and disgusting.
Journo's are always pulling people apart because of quote's they've made, often in haste. Mr Holt should at least apologise for that one.
It wouldn't surprise me if he gets told to do one out of the pressbox next time he rocks up to VP. His next piece in the Mirror would be a great laugh.
He's too important to have to actually attend matches.
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The 'Colonel Tom' comment was particularly ignorant and disgusting.
Journo's are always pulling people apart because of quote's they've made, often in haste. Mr Holt should at least apologise for that one.
It wouldn't surprise me if he gets told to do one out of the pressbox next time he rocks up to VP. His next piece in the Mirror would be a great laugh.
He's too important to have to actually attend matches.
Especially at small provincial clubs.
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matin oneil did a good job but he lost the script,he was given more money power and backing than anyother manager in our illiustrious history,he should have been sacked after the moscow fiasco.we will finish this season higher without him tahan we would have if he had stayed.he will never manage a club as big as the villa again.
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matin oneil did a good job but he lost the script,he was given more money power and backing than anyother manager in our illiustrious history,he should have been sacked after the moscow fiasco.we will finish this season higher without him tahan we would have if he had stayed.he will never manage a club as big as the villa again.
I still reckon the board was happy with this decision at the time (as was a lot of fans). As with anything hindsight is 20-20.
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it was quite hilarious when it came out that they'd all done the obvious thing and gone to whl to watch the spurs citeh game. hilarious in a 'oh my, i could really smash your faces in' kind of way.
and holt claiming that the figures they're hearing are all coming from the club rather than martin o'neill. well i'll tell you what oliver, if you take your head out of o'neill's arse, you can get yourself over to companies house and go look at our accounts for yourself you lazy, clueless, stuttering 'tard.
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Oliver Holt still doesn't see things your way...
My apologies to those Aston Villa fans I may have offended by pouring scorn on the comments of Randy Lerner’s right-hand man, General Charles C Krulak, after he launched a scathing attack on Martin O’Neill.
I am happy to accept General Krulak’s 36 years in the US Marines and his involvement in pointless, unsuccessful, imperialistic American wars in Vietnam and Iraq qualifies him as an English football expert.
Daily Mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-column-Why-I-m-tipping-Chelsea-to-win-the-Champions-League-and-why-I-don-t-think-Aston-Villas-General-Charles-C-Krulak-is-a-football-expert-article557103.html#ixzz0wwak5UkF)
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Oliver Holt still doesn't see things your way...
My apologies to those Aston Villa fans I may have offended by pouring scorn on the comments of Randy Lerner’s right-hand man, General Charles C Krulak, after he launched a scathing attack on Martin O’Neill.
I am happy to accept General Krulak’s 36 years in the US Marines and his involvement in pointless, unsuccessful, imperialistic American wars in Vietnam and Iraq qualifies him as an English football expert.
Daily Mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-column-Why-I-m-tipping-Chelsea-to-win-the-Champions-League-and-why-I-don-t-think-Aston-Villas-General-Charles-C-Krulak-is-a-football-expert-article557103.html#ixzz0wwak5UkF)
What. A. Dick.
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Oliver Holt still doesn't see things your way...
My apologies to those Aston Villa fans I may have offended by pouring scorn on the comments of Randy Lerner’s right-hand man, General Charles C Krulak, after he launched a scathing attack on Martin O’Neill.
I am happy to accept General Krulak’s 36 years in the US Marines and his involvement in pointless, unsuccessful, imperialistic American wars in Vietnam and Iraq qualifies him as an English football expert.
Daily Mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-column-Why-I-m-tipping-Chelsea-to-win-the-Champions-League-and-why-I-don-t-think-Aston-Villas-General-Charles-C-Krulak-is-a-football-expert-article557103.html#ixzz0wwak5UkF)
Did we really expect him to say anything else? To do that would be to expect a journalist to actually do some research into the subject matter which for a twat like him is too much to ask. His apology is nothing of the sort as his last line illustrates his contempt for Villa fans and a third rate attempt at sarcasm.
The General's comments were hardly scathing although that fact doesn't fit the story. I'm glad I don't waste my money on stuff like this.
Holt is a cocksucker of the highest order.
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I know I shouldn't have bitten, but.......
My word, you really are an ignorant man, aren't you? If you think that it was your questioning General Krulak's knowledge of the English football (a reasonable query considering he's only been involved for 4 years or so) that annoyed some villa fans, then you really haven't a clue.
I'll leave aside your one-sided, look-after-your-mates slant that you put on the MON leaving story, but I do wonder if you'd have the balls to say something similar about a former member of the British armed forces? Or are the imperialistic wars that they have been part of somehow better?
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So what exactly qualifies Holt as a "football expert"?
Cock.
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I really should be working but I couldn't help myself:
Oliver
Your uninformed comments about General Krulak have annoyed many Villa fans and your apology is no better. In typical tabloid fashion you choose to focus on the General's outstanding military record although his CV in Business is equally as impressive, although you seem to chose not to mention that. His business acumen makes him an ideal business Director, which is the main role he plays at Villa Park. A football club is, after all, a business so it makes sense to me to have top business men on the Board.
Through lack of diligence, you completely fail to understand that much of our respect and affection for the General comes from the fact that he choses to spend time communicating with Villa fans, either through Message boards or in person at Villa Park on match days. How many Directors of other Premiership clubs chose to do this? Certainly none of your beloved Top 4.
His comments about MON were hardly scathing and in my view seemed to make sense. Did you ever get round to reading what he actually said?
Do yourself a favour and actually spend a little time looking into how this gentleman works and you might actually end up writing an article of real interest.
Grrr!
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Holt's utterly pathetic comments about the General, his uninformed views about our club and his ridiculously ugly face make him the perfect columnist for the mirror.
He is actually a multi sports columnist of the year winner. Who the hell decides these things?
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He's angling for a reaction, and like all little children throwing a tantrum he's best ignored.
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He's angling for a reaction, and like all little children throwing a tantrum he's best ignored.
Very true Dave.
He's got a reaction though as we refuse to allow him to drag our clubs name, or the good people associated with it through the mud. I totally agree that he should be ignored, but i've got an extremely short temper about things like this.
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I'd just love to keep kicking him up the arse until he started crying. From the look of him that wouldn't take too long, the bed wetting c**t.
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I'd just love to keep kicking him up the arse until he started crying. From the look of him that wouldn't take too long, the bed wetting c**t.
Hes off your Christmas card list aswell then?
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Come the post apocalyptic revolution I'm going to have my mutated attack dogs devour him and then wipe the resulting shit in Gary Cooks face.
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Come the post apocalyptic revolution I'm going to have my mutated attack dogs devour him and then wipe the resulting shit in Gary Cooks face.
That would make a nice reality tv show.
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People who come up with reality TV shows are next.
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Hiding spot here i come.
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It has been said many times before but the way to shut these cocksucking whores up is to actually achieve something on the pitch (although it has not stopped them fawning over Arsenal and WHU for many barron years)
Take the Champions league - we are an irritation that little clubs like us and Forest have won it when the true footballing giants like Spurs / Arsenal / WH have not won it
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general krulak has 4 more years than you at running a football club mr holt, you weasel faced feces spouting arsehole...
certainly qualifies him to know more than you have, or ever will, know about about football or more importantly in this particular case, aston villa football club...
the "quality" of your "articles" prove that you know fuck all...
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We are the victims of the UK's media being London - and to a slightly lesser extent - North-West based.
To these parasites the Birmingham and the Midlands is a non-existant, unfashionable, ugly footballing wasteland. Point out to them that the city of Birmingham gave the world the league format for football (thus saving the game) and they will look at you as if you are mad. Does McGregor get any coverage from the media? Have the nationals ever shot footage about Villa and featured the statue in the background? Not yet, at least. To them Shanks and Busby saved the game. Ditto Herbert Chapman.
Ask them who Stan Cullis was and they'd scratch their heads. Why talk about the great Wolves of the 1950's when they can tell us all about Bill Nicholson, Spurs and the 60's?
Point out to them that the Midlands has had three European Cups to London's big fat zero and they are bemused. It all never gets a mention. The hotbeds of English football are London, the North West and the North East according to these guys.
When did all this nonsense start, I wonder? Was the press like this in the 1920's, 30's or 40's?
I did a little bit of research into the Daily Mirror's reporting of the 1957 FA Cup final through looking at their online database of back editions and was surprised to find that, even back then, the bias was obvious. If we think back to those days it was a final between six times winners Villa versus two(?) times winners Man Utd yet the pre match report mentioned very little about Villa's history and pedigree. It was all about Man Utd.
I believe the reporter was Frank McGee (although I could be wrong on the name/spelling) and to say he was bigging up Man Utd to Clive Tyldsley levels would be an understatement. As I say, this was 1957. Six times winners versus two times winners. In fact Villa were the most successful club in the country at the time. True, Man Utd had been a dominant force for about eight years by then, but I got the impression that such coverage was unprecedented. This type of hyping up of a team seemed surreal. Maybe such a style of reportage was in its infancy?
The following day's match report on the final was equally biased with McGee neatly informing his readers why Villa hadn't deserved victory against Busby's thoroughbreds.
A little bit more research on said reporter, Frank McGee, was telling. It transpired that he was very close, indeed, to Matt Busby and that Busby was even a Godfather to one of his children. There is no doubt Busby was the first manager to appreciate the power of the press and media in promoting a football club. Perhaps, Cloughie was the only Midlands' man ever to appreciate this?
I think, since the 1950's, the North West clubs and the London clubs have been far more savvy about such things. Busby and Shanks certainly knew how to use the media. Over the years Man Utd, Liverpool and the London clubs have all grown close to the media: Look at how many pundits Liverpool spawn; look at how many Man Utd players have appeared in advertising, released books etc., etc. since the days of Best. Blimey, Sky TV and Man Utd seem to have had a joint business plan throughout the nineties that has fed into the growth of each busness! Even now Sky are perpetuating the Cantona "legend" to sell their products. Would any of us give two figs about Cantona if it wasn't for Sky TV reminding us of him whenever they get the chance?
Tellingly I'd say we can trace the birth of the glory-hunter to the 1950's, too. Busby was all too aware of the influence of the media on the simple-minded modern football follower and fittingly set up the first stadium sovenir shop at Old Trafford...
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I have more time for General Krulak's comments, than any comment by this sad, ill-informed, top 4 obsessed hack.
an idiot.
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You can't blame Matt Busby for doing what he thought right at the time - or Shankly, then Clough, for copying him. They were promoting what were then unfashionable clubs and I have a feeling they would all hate the way football has become so celebrity-obsessed.
We should also remember that in 1957 Manchester United were the standard bearers for English football in a way no other club has been before or since. Maybe it was because of the post-Hungary at Wembley fallout that we were still clinging to some proof that English football was still the best. Maybe it was because that team were so good. Frank McGhee was a great writer; he'd started out on the Manchester Evening News and his career progressed alongside the United team. I think if I'd been in close proximity to the likes of Duncan Edwards and Bobby Charlton I'd have been biased as well.
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An excellent post, Billy Walker.
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The most inexplicable is the love-in about the FA Cup semi-final between Spurs and Arsenal in 1991. I just don't see what's so important about that particular game. Every right-thinking fan knows that Spurs were the bad guys who denied Clough the only trophy he never won, so why is the semi that got them there so celebrated? It's revolting.
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Thanks Mazrim. I fear I went off on one there.
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Some more fans here (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=26750889305#!/group.php?gid=26750889305&v=wall)
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Oliver Holt supports man city
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He's a Stockport County fan. My Mom reads The Mirror and I occasionally catch his articles.
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He's a Stockport County fan. My Mom reads The Mirror and I occasionally catch his articles.
i get the mirror. his dad took him to city as a kid. no doubt he went to stockport to.
suits him as a journo to say stockport now. but he is a city fan
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...and he is the football editor of the Daily Mirror, which comes out with so much fookin bullshit...... when they dont know fook all.....
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Oliver Holt still doesn't see things your way...
My apologies to those Aston Villa fans I may have offended by pouring scorn on the comments of Randy Lerner’s right-hand man, General Charles C Krulak, after he launched a scathing attack on Martin O’Neill.
I am happy to accept General Krulak’s 36 years in the US Marines and his involvement in pointless, unsuccessful, imperialistic American wars in Vietnam and Iraq qualifies him as an English football expert.
If forced to buy a tabloid newspaper, my choice would, reluctantly, be The Mirror. This despite it coming across as petty and point scoring in a class war type of way. Oliver Holt's remarks about wars in Vietnam and Iraq are irrelevant, imo.
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I don't know if this link has been poster before. If not, definately worth a read. Will cheer everyone up on here. Thinking of sending it to Oliver holt but I doubt he'll take time out of his "busy day" coming up with such fantasy as to make star wars look normal
http://schmusing.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/greatest%C2%A0schmeatest/
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First thing to say is that I thought their comments at the experse of the club did go a bit far, only time will tell if we do become a selling club. Fact is I can see both points of view in the O'Nell v Club thing. Martin was an ambitius man, and the reality is for us to move forward we did need further investment. Then again the club had already given him a lot of money, and of couse you have to balance the books at the end of the day.
But can you really say that much of what they said is wrong. O'Neill was our best asset, he did make stars out of the likes of Milner, Young and Gabby. We were always gareteed a top six finish at least. And I think its pretty fair to point out that the result on Saturday was with MON's team and is something we may have done with him.
I actually think Holt's comments about the genaral were funny, he should seek a stand up career! ;) Actually on a side note I do find him to be one of the fairer, more balanced jouo's.
Also I have to say how twofaced many of you are becoming. If it was the other way around, and Randy had left the club, you would all be defending MON and slagging off Leiner. And Woodhall's idea than the press have been waiting for this all along is just too far fetched. Our ex-manager has owned his high standinding in the game.
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Also I have to say how twofaced many of you are becoming. If it was the other way around, and Randy had left the club, you would all be defending MON and slagging off Leiner. And Woodhall's idea than the press have been waiting for this all along is just too far fetched. Our ex-manager has owned his high standinding in the game.
[/quote]
We'd have a different opinion if something different happened, and that's two-faced? I don't understand the logic of that. And it's Mister Woodhall to you, Boy.
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But can you really say that much of what they said is wrong. O'Neill was our best asset, he did make stars out of the likes of Milner, Young and Gabby. We were always gareteed a top six finish at least. And I think its pretty fair to point out that the result on Saturday was with MON's team and is something we may have done with him.
How many times in the last four years did we play like that at Villa Park? I'm guessing six or seven, and two of those were Bolton playing their annual suicidal high line against us.
O'Neill did well with Young and Milner, yes, but far too often he made a collection of very expensive footballers look like a collection of very average ones.
I remember when that Stoke fan came on here and said "you're just a slightly more expensive version of us". I laughed it off at first, but then thought, actually, he had a point.
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I don't know if this link has been poster before. If not, definately worth a read. Will cheer everyone up on here. Thinking of sending it to Oliver holt but I doubt he'll take time out of his "busy day" coming up with such fantasy as to make star wars look normal
http://schmusing.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/greatest%C2%A0schmeatest/
That was such a great read! :) Really lifted my spirits! cheers man!
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But there was nothing boring about the way we played, its a little too easy to dismiss a hard working, in your face side who don't play free flowing football as boring. Infact it was our enegy, and exciting pace on the counter that actually made for some very enjoyable games under O'Neill.
No Dave the reason their two-faced is because many were prising the manager before this, and now because he's no longer around and because of the manor of his depature have decided to make him out to be some kind of nazi.
I am all for backing the club and all, but that doesn't mean we should go too far the other way. Also if some of the stories are true then it is a bit concerning for the future. But I am willing to wait and see on that one.
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We should also remember that in 1957 Manchester United were the standard bearers for English football in a way no other club has been before or since.
I hear your points Dave but I reckon Villa's showing against Hitler's Germany/Austria back in the 1930's was perhaps (in my view) the very definition of a football club being a standard bearer for English football (and even the British Government itself!). My view would be that a lot of people share your opinion about Man Utd in the 1950's but this general concensus has been formed with no little help from the media and the likes of Mr. McGhee. It's something the North West and London clubs have courted for years. It's something that Midland clubs have never been given a sniff of.
When I was a kid growing up in the 80's I must have seen references to Man Utd's European Cup Final versus Benfica on the box umpteen times. A clip on Football Focus here, a snatch of it on Grandstand or Saint and Greavsie there. The BBC even had a whole evening of TV devoted to George Best and Man Utd one Friday - and this was before the days of Fergie success! No wonder our local clubs started losing potential supporters to them - they were forever being bigged up and celebrated, even when they were sh*te. Blatant media bias. I used to wonder why they never showed clips of Villa winning the Big One in the same way? Why no evening on national TV celebrating Villa's history, celebrating our European Cup win and such like? Why no documentary on that Villa tour of Germany in the 1930's? It's not that people wouldn't have been interested, it is because, surely, the media didn't create that interest?
Villa were still England's second most successful club side for trophies by the 1980's but did that ever get a mention? Nope. Did the media ask us to be part of the Big Five when Man Utd fan Greg Dyke plotted a new era of live football on the box? Not at all...it was a club for North West and London sides only.
There's no doubt about it, since the media really got involved in football, Birmingham and the Midlands have been treated appallingly. We have not been given a fair crack of the whip or equal treatment or promotion. How I would love it if we could have just a few years of Villa being number one and taking these bloated, bone-idle hacks to the cleaners!
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But there was nothing boring about the way we played, its a little too easy to dismiss a hard working, in your face side who don't play free flowing football as boring. Infact it was our enegy, and exciting pace on the counter that actually made for some very enjoyable games under O'Neill.
No Dave the reason their two-faced is because many were prising the manager before this, and now because he's no longer around and because of the manor of his depature have decided to make him out to be some kind of nazi.
I am all for backing the club and all, but that doesn't mean we should go too far the other way. Also if some of the stories are true then it is a bit concerning for the future. But I am willing to wait and see on that one.
There was plenty that was boring about the football, and the reason they are not two-faced is because circumstances have changed. Our manager walked out on us at the worst time possible, which would make anyone think about changing their opinion of him.
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But there was nothing boring about the way we played, its a little too easy to dismiss a hard working, in your face side who don't play free flowing football as boring. Infact it was our enegy, and exciting pace on the counter that actually made for some very enjoyable games under O'Neill.
It is all subjective, though.
I found our home performances for two years were very often boring. What isn't subjective are measures like goals scored and passes completed, both of which put us down there with the Stokes and Boltons of this world. You're right, counter attacking can be exciting, and away from home it often was, but it was O'Neill's abject failure to find a tactic which worked at home (when you can't counter attack, because teams defend) that bothered me most.
Ask yourself this, after having finished sixth three times, and having had the manager walk out on us, why do you think so few people on here are really upset about it? There must be something to it? I don't think it is the failure to crack the top four - even I don't think that is a fair stick to beat him with. So what is it?
Out of interest, which do you think were the exciting performances of the last two years?
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We should also remember that in 1957 Manchester United were the standard bearers for English football in a way no other club has been before or since.
I hear your points Dave but I reckon Villa's showing against Hitler's Germany/Austria back in the 1930's was perhaps (in my view) the very definition of a football club being a standard bearer for English football (and even the British Government itself!). My view would be that a lot of people share your opinion about Man Utd in the 1950's but this general concensus has been formed with no little help from the media and the likes of Mr. McGhee. It's something the North West and London clubs have courted for years. It's something that Midland clubs have never been given a sniff of.
When I was a kid growing up in the 80's I must have seen references to Man Utd's European Cup Final versus Benfica on the box umpteen times. A clip on Football Focus here, a snatch of it on Grandstand or Saint and Greavsie there. The BBC even had a whole evening of TV devoted to George Best and Man Utd one Friday - and this was before the days of Fergie success! No wonder our local clubs started losing potential supporters to them - they were forever being bigged up and celebrated, even when they were sh*te. Blatant media bias. I used to wonder why they never showed clips of Villa winning the Big One in the same way? Why no evening on national TV celebrating Villa's history, celebrating our European Cup win and such like? Why no documentary on that Villa tour of Germany in the 1930's? It's not that people wouldn't have been interested, it is because, surely, the media didn't create that interest?
Villa were still England's second most successful club side for trophies by the 1980's but did that ever get a mention? Nope. Did the media ask us to be part of the Big Five when Man Utd fan Greg Dyke plotted a new era of live football on the box? Not at all...it was a club for North West and London sides only.
There's no doubt about it, since the media really got involved in football, Birmingham and the Midlands have been treated appallingly. We have not been given a fair crack of the whip or equal treatment or promotion. How I would love it if we could have just a few years of Villa being number one and taking these bloated, bone-idle hacks to the cleaners!
We had our success at the worst possible time, firstly because no-one cared about football then, and second because we were just another English club winning the European Cup. By then it was no big deal, and it wasn't until the first time an English club won it post-European ban. And look what club it was. There's also something to be said for the fact that we didn't have anything to hang our success on. Forest had Clough, Manchester United had Best-Law-Charlton, Liverpool had all the trophies they won. We were a team with few standout names (although Gary Shaw would have become one) and a manager who made it plain he couldn't stand the media.
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Well Wigan away second half two years ago, we were outstanding in the wins at Liverpool and Man Utd, played very well in the 2-1 defeat to Arsenal in December 2007, and the thrashing of the blues also.
No I don't buy that Dave. I am as let down as by the manager walking out on us five days before the season, it was very ill thought out we deserved better. But that still doesn't mean that your overall view should change. For me the guy has always come accross as a very charming, likeable guy who has done more good than bad for Villa, and one mistake cannot change that.
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Well Wigan away second half two years ago, we were outstanding in the wins at Liverpool and Man Utd, played very well in the 2-1 defeat to Arsenal in December 2007, and the thrashing of the blues also.
No I don't buy that Dave. I am as let down as by the manager walking out on us five days before the season, it was very ill thought out we deserved better. But that still doesn't mean that your overall view should change. For me the guy has always come accross as a very charming, likeable guy who has done more good than bad for Villa, and one mistake cannot change that.
Five games in four years, and whatever good he did will always have to be judged against the way he left us.
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No I was asked to name examples of us playing well, not to name every game we played well in. Surely the fact we were competive in most matches against the big four, and had a great team sprit thoughout his reign is another positive.
I just don't get what more people expected in four seasons, I don't see anyone saying Moyles has done an evenge job at Everton, he's been there longer and with the execption of the one year they finished fourth Everton have done no better than us in that time.
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I am as let down as by the manager walking out on us five days before the season, it was very ill thought out we deserved better. But that still doesn't mean that your overall view should change. For me the guy has always come accross as a very charming, likeable guy who has done more good than bad for Villa, and one mistake cannot change that.
Ill thought out? I'd say it was completely vindictive on his part.
Obviously MON had his good points, he can be charming and together with Randy Lerner, he certainly helped stablise the club and team. There were some great games, not many but there were some. Often when you're rebuilding, you will reach a stage when despite your effort, you can take it no further as you're not personally equipped to finish the job. MON has certainly put the foundations in and built on them but he's not the man to do the interior design.
Maybe if his relationship with his labourers, Robertson and Walford was not so strong, he could have subcontracted the interior designer himself and finished the job. We'll never know. But now he's gone, downed tools and taken everybody with him. He's left the architect with a big headache but fortunately he's determined to see the project finished. Nothing has changed there. We still need to get rid of some of the shoddy materials and expensive plant hire equipment Martin bought early on for the project and we may end up selling them very cheaply but the project will go on and hopefully will be completed by somebody that really knows what they're doing.
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I am as let down as by the manager walking out on us five days before the season, it was very ill thought out we deserved better. But that still doesn't mean that your overall view should change. For me the guy has always come accross as a very charming, likeable guy who has done more good than bad for Villa, and one mistake cannot change that.
Ill thought out? I'd say it was completely vindictive on his part.
Obviously MON had his good points, he can be charming and together with Randy Lerner, he certainly helped stablise the club and team. There were some great games, not many but there were some. Often when you're rebuilding, you will reach a stage when despite your effort, you can take it no further as you're not personally equipped to finish the job. MON has certainly put the foundations in and built on them but he's not the man to do the interior design.
Maybe if his relationship with his labourers, Robertson and Walford was not so strong, he could have subcontracted the interior designer himself and finished the job. We'll never know. But now he's gone, downed tools and taken everybody with him. He's left the architect with a big headache but fortunately he's determined to see the project finished. Nothing has changed there. We still need to get rid of some of the shoddy materials and expensive plant hire equipment Martin bought early on for the project and we may end up selling them very cheaply but the project will go on and hopefully will be completed by somebody that really knows what they're doing.
Sooner or later you're going to realise the bank have pulled the plug on the developers. Some money will probably be spent on draught excluders and emulsion but your interior designers have had their contract cancelled.
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You wish! A 10 tonne mixer full of ready made excuses to hide the shoddy workmanship.
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The drift of this thread has become an assertion by some that many of us have turned on Martin O'Neill entirely and exclusively because he walked out on the club in an act of premeditated spite. That is far from the case. My view on Martin O'Neill has been constant for over two years. I believe his ability is overrated. I think he is an opportunist. I think he cultivated the media spin with regard to the Brian Clough connection and have never seen any real or proven similarity between O'Neill and Clough.
The magnetic north to which the O'Neill compass will always be drawn is the question could what he has done for Villa have been done by any competent manager given the change of ownership after the Ellis years and the massive financial investment by the new owner? If you consider top six finishes by teams on their knees in the last weeks of the season, a League Cup final and an FA Cup semi final a rich harvest by a football genius, go up the Holt end. If you think is is little better than one might expect come up this end with Mr Woodhall and the substantial numbers of us for whom the timing and the manner of the diva's departure was no more than the final proof of General Krulak's observation that Martin O'Neill thought he was too good for us. Hadn't his friends in the media always told him so?
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No I was asked to name examples of us playing well, not to name every game we played well in. Surely the fact we were competive in most matches against the big four, and had a great team sprit thoughout his reign is another positive.
I just don't get what more people expected in four seasons, I don't see anyone saying Moyles has done an evenge job at Everton, he's been there longer and with the execption of the one year they finished fourth Everton have done no better than us in that time.
You were asked for examples of us playing well at home - three of the five you mentioned were away, counter-attacking successes. You're right about the Arsenal home game in Dec '07, possibly our finest performance under O'Neill in fact, but why couldn't we play with that purpose and fluidity on a consistent basis at Villa Park under MON?
As regards Everton, didn't they pip us to 5th a couple of times? They also got to the final of the FA Cup, which trumps our Carling Cup final appearance.
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whatever good he did will always have to be judged against the way he left us.
Bit harsh, he is free to do whatever he likes and i don't see how that changes his achievements. I am grateful for his efforts even if i'm not sorry he's left.
He couldn't achieve the levels we wanted but it would have been an amazing achievement if he had so as i see it there's no shame in that. He seems like an honourable bloke, i can only imagine things got on top of him and he no longer felt the stresses and challenges involved were worth it. Seems fair enough to me. We move on, good luck to him.
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Can we get back to insulting that Cock mitten Oliver Holt please?
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Agreed
Holt is a tosser of the highest order - i get to see the press a lot at VP and i cannot remember a time when he was actually at the ground - but that can be said for a lot of so called football writers
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I have always though Holt's mother is a rubbish actress. I think that is about as fair and relevant as his criticism of us in general and the General in particular.
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So his mum is Emily Bishop from Coronation Street?
Wow, cool...
Tosser.
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Well Wigan away second half two years ago, we were outstanding in the wins at Liverpool and Man Utd, played very well in the 2-1 defeat to Arsenal in December 2007, and the thrashing of the blues also.
So, that's two excellent home performances in two years, and one of those was against the knuckledraggers.
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So his mum is Emily Bishop from Coronation Street?
Wow, cool...
Tosser.
You would think that with KM having the nick name "Albert" after Albert Tatlock. Albert Tatlock being related to Ken or Deirdre, I'm not sure which.... and with Emily Bishop up the arse of Ken and Deirdre that Holt might be a bit more "Is there anything I can do to help" rather than this anti Villa stance he appears to be taking.
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Here's a question; is our profile with the media, or lack thereof, damaging to the club?
I'm always concerned that player recruitment can be hindered by the prevailing view of Villa that they put out, as players will be influeneced by this.
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I'd hope that players were a bit smarter than to buy into what some hacks dream up.
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I'd hope that players were a bit smarter than to buy into what some hacks dream up.
I think I can spot a flaw in your argument....
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Lets face it, your moms been around on Corrie for nearly as long as Ken bloody boring Barlow. Not that difficult after all those years to know all the press boys round Mancland and get young Oliver on the ladder with a job at the local rag. Keep in with the editor, feeding a few titbits of corrie tittle tattle and complimentary tickets for the tour, so young Oliver get a few promotions.
Its not what you know its who you know, its jobs for the boys, its bloody nepotism.
Its like that bloody Chris Hollins, I bet with his Dad playing just down the road must have got to know plenty of people at the BBC and got his lad in there. Now he will probably finish up moving on from the BBC sport department and be the next bloody Jeremy Paxman.
Dan Snow, theres another one. Just because every election night it was deemed acceptable behaviour to have your Dad leaping around like a deranged lunatic waving his arms round like a bloody windmill nearly knocking Robin Day unconscious, is no qualification for a regular slot on the One Show.
Mark my words, 30/40 years from now people will be fed their media tripe by the children of Beckham, Rooney etc.
Up yours Holt !
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Ha Ha, Brilliant!
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It's funny because it's true Andy. Or maybe not!
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I giggled at that as well.
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Here's a question; is our profile with the media, or lack thereof, damaging to the club?
It has to be. I was looking for our Europa League result on BBC World TV channel earlier, but they didn't seem to think we'd played. Instead, the news that Tottenham might - might - sign William Gallas was deemed more important. They went on to tell about Liverpool's and Man City's exploits in the competition, but they didn't mention us once - they didn't even flash the score up.
As far as the media is concerned, we really don't exist, and when we do exist, it's only because we play bigger, more newsworthy teams or have a manager with a reputation, who has deigned to join us. You watch, if Klinnsman comes here, we'll be back in the news again, and worth mentioning. It can't do us much good as far as players are concerned.
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Just about to start discussing Villa now!
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Apparently Randy wants to sell up.
This show used to be half decent a few years ago when Jimmy Hill was doing it. Shocking now.
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So, according to the SS, there is no point in supporting villa. In fact there is no point in the club existing! Which i suppose is a good thing since randy now wants to sell up too.
I do wish these people would do their job and report rather than opt for 5 mins worth of fame, sitting around a table with the cameras on. These guys slam refs for wanting to hog the lime light and make decissions so they can get into the papers the following day. The sunday supplement people are just as bad!
So along with Spurs and everton who just pop around the 6th position and hope to get 4th every now and again, according the those dickwads, the premier league should just have Man U, Chelsea, arsenal and Liverpool.
Every other club just might as well not bother.
What complete rubbish!
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The suggestion that without significant investment we're unlikely to reach the champions league places is hardly the most outrageous of claims. I think talk of £100m is over the top but we clearly need to strengthen. They're also not the only people who think that the board might have reassessed their ambitions. From my own point of view I do have a few worries. That's not to say that I am 100% sure that things have changed just that I'm not 100% positive that they haven't.
We'll know soon enough with the type of appointment made and what the new man has to say about where he wants to take the club. I'm hoping that it's enough to prove that my own worries are unfounded.
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Slightly ironic that journos are sat round discussing the pointlessness of modern Premier League football on a Sky programme.
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It really pisses me off they put a random figure on it like that.
Ah yes, £100million is needed isn't it? £100million is the exact amount of money we need to give us the extra 6 and 10 points we needed the last 2 seasons to finish 4th.
Only with £100million extra investment could we beat West Ham, Wolves and Wigan at home.
Randy might as well give up.
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A word I discovered on these very pages nicely sums up those idiots COCKWOMBLES.
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It really pisses me off they put a random figure on it like that.
Ah yes, £100million is needed isn't it? £100million is the exact amount of money we need to give us the extra 6 and 10 points we needed the last 2 seasons to finish 4th.
Only with £100million extra investment could we beat West Ham, Wolves and Wigan at home.
Randy might as well give up.
Why does it piss you off?
It's just a bunch of blokes giving their opinions, they might be right or they might be wrong but it's no different to the sort of stuff you see on here every day.
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white flags at the ready. theres no point anymore!!
When are the chess championships on? That russian guy is amazing!
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I always get annoyed how the national football media start talking about Villa, and then start talking about other teams, this time Everton and Spuds.
Do think they raised some relevant points about the attractiveness of the club, but overall thought they was overly negative.
Does Randy want to leave?........up to him, if he does consolidate and move foward.
You need £100m to get into the top 4?........not sure about that tbh.Milners money, plus another £10/15m, would make us a better team than last year, and we finished 6th last year.
Should be happy with 6th?, therefore so should Spuds, Lplop, Everton as well.Should'nt happen, won't happen, thankfully.
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Its really is crap.
Talksport with moving pictures.
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Its really is crap.
Talksport with moving pictures.
Very good analogy Paul. I discovered a while back not to listen to the one, or watch the other. In terms of any sort of intellectual debate about football, they are pretty much at the same level and insulting in that they both seem to treat football fans as if they are complete thickos
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Its really is crap.
Talksport with moving pictures.
Very good analogy Paul. I discovered a while back not to listen to the one, or watch the other. In terms of any sort of intellectual debate about football, they are pretty much at the same level and insulting in that they both seem to treat football fans as if they are complete thickos
It's been the way for years. Supporters are either latte-sipping Lovejoy types or sad twats who have to be educated by the incredibly knowledgable national media.
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The media want instant reaction and instant results as it is this that fuels their business. Building a team over 3 or 4 years is of no interest to them. They want the Man Citys and Chelseas to create talking between supporters and who watch the football shows, buy the 'papers etc. They promote the drug of football news and create it when there is no actual news.
Villa probably do need £100m to break into the top four this instant but as fans of this club do we really want that. It would be great if we had £100m to do that and have a guarantee that it would happen. As we do not have that money, the journalists on SS just say we are also rans and cast us aside as being of no interest. We do not have the so called 'magical fans' like Liverpool and Newcastle that the media fawn over and that keeps them in the spotlight, even when they are doing crap. Even Everton get good coverage but only because (in my opinion) they are the 'other half' of Liverpool. We are unfortunate that we are in the Midlands, the region of 'dead' football as far as the media are concerned. We have no national press pushing the region and what local media we have are so lightweight and club based to be of no use in portraying us as a top club.
The only way we are going to succeed and get to the top is to do it slowly by developing a squad over a number of years. I thought MON was doing that but he changed his strategy and started bringing in older players with short shelf life and dubious value. Was this down to his ego of wanting to be seen as the great manager quickly when he could see that it was going to take a long time, was he given a timescale that he had to work to or, like most of us, caught up in the adrenaline rush of the success mid 2008/2009 season.
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I happened to be in Newcastle last weekend and all I seemed to hear was how nothing about Newcastle ever gets mentioned a bit like us I suppose.
eg Chelsea beat such ateam, Man Utd beat somebodyelse whilst Wigan or someother outfit lost to Villa.....ie no credit due to us because we dont come from London or Manchester.
And it will get even worse when the BBC completes its move to Manchester, we even had to endure Nursey giving a BBC interview last week .As if he even had any idea about what goes on at our club, well apart from what he makes up in his useless rag.
The only way we are going to succeed and get to the top is to do it slowly by developing a squad over a number of years. I thought MON was doing that but he changed his strategy and started bringing in older players with short shelf life and dubious value. Was this down to his ego of wanting to be seen as the great manager quickly when he could see that it was going to take a long time, was he given a timescale that he had to work to or, like most of us, caught up in the adrenaline rush of the success mid 2008/2009 season.
I agree with this and would prefer us to develop our youngsters this year and hope that we dont go into freefall this season.
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The only way we are going to succeed and get to the top is to do it slowly by developing a squad over a number of years. I thought MON was doing that but he changed his strategy and started bringing in older players with short shelf life and dubious value.
Who do you have in mind there?
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Another reason, amongst many, not to read newspapers.
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Funny how more or less every other club in the country would take MON as manager.
Funny then how a lot of people on here would like Moyes, when some Everton fans aren't exactly thrilled about the football they play yet those who want him on here imagine it will be fantastic and we'll finish top 4 easily.
On one hand you take in what the media tells you (i.e. Moyes) and on the other you disregard it as bollocks (i.e. MON).
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As if he even had any idea about what goes on at our club, well apart from what he makes up in his useless rag.
He did some good work for the Evening Mail when he was here in Dolly's time and upset him by asking some sensible questions.I knew him (James Nursey), a good lad, clued up about Villa and football in general.
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A good lad he may be, but Nursey hasn’t got the first clue about what’s going on inside the Villa.
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Its really is crap.
Talksport with moving pictures.
Very good analogy Paul. I discovered a while back not to listen to the one, or watch the other. In terms of any sort of intellectual debate about football, they are pretty much at the same level and insulting in that they both seem to treat football fans as if they are complete thickos
It's been the way for years. Supporters are either latte-sipping Lovejoy types or sad twats who have to be educated by the incredibly knowledgable national media.
Talking of which, has Tim Lovejoy been ditched by Radio 5? He seemed to be all over the station last season, this post has reminded me that he exists, and I haven't heard him on Radio 5 this season.
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Its really is crap.
Talksport with moving pictures.
Very good analogy Paul. I discovered a while back not to listen to the one, or watch the other. In terms of any sort of intellectual debate about football, they are pretty much at the same level and insulting in that they both seem to treat football fans as if they are complete thickos
It's been the way for years. Supporters are either latte-sipping Lovejoy types or sad twats who have to be educated by the incredibly knowledgable national media.
Talking of which, has Tim Lovejoy been ditched by Radio 5? He seemed to be all over the station last season, this post has reminded me that he exists, and I haven't heard him on Radio 5 this season.
Well I bloody hope so Lizz, I had repressed him in my memory before you mentioned him!
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The journalists on the Sunday Supplement this morning, particularly the div from the Mirror, such a group of uninformed arseholes. Pro-MON and anti Randy wankers. Utterly pathetic. As for Talksport, that's the radio equivalent of The Daily Mirror. Awful radio with illiterate people acting as broadcasters.
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The journalists on the Sunday Supplement this morning, particularly the div from the Mirror, such a group of uninformed arseholes. Pro-MON and anti Randy wankers. Utterly pathetic. As for Talksport, that's the radio equivalent of The Daily Mirror. Awful radio with illiterate people acting as broadcasters.
Theres no reason for them to be anti Mr Lerner none at all.
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There was plenty that was boring about the football, and the reason they are not two-faced is because circumstances have changed. Our manager walked out on us at the worst time possible, which would make anyone think about changing their opinion of him.
I for one backed the manager to the hilt while he was with the Club and even went so far to leave this esteemed forum in a hissy fit, when the knives where out for him.
Since the 'walkout' and complete silence from the man (and I don't think he's been gagged), my opinion of MON has gone from one of deep respect to being appalled at the gall of the man.
It's good to be back.
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The journalists on the Sunday Supplement this morning, particularly the div from the Mirror, such a group of uninformed arseholes. Pro-MON and anti Randy wankers. Utterly pathetic. As for Talksport, that's the radio equivalent of The Daily Mirror. Awful radio with illiterate people acting as broadcasters.
Theres no reason for them to be anti Mr Lerner none at all.
Shows the fickle nature of journo's as while MON was in charge, all the tabloids loved Randy.
Model chairman seen but not heard was what they said a season or two ago. Always supporting and investing in the club.
Now their bum chum has walked out randy has become the evil one. I used love watching the programme, really informative. Now the quality of jurno's they have on it is shocking. Notice Martin all suited and booted yesterday? He never used to be like that. Enjoying the lime light a little now are we??
Get on with what you should be doing... Licking MON's arse!