Sunday Supplement Today

[JUAN PABLO]

...and he is the football editor of the Daily Mirror, which comes out with so much fookin bullshit...... when they dont know fook all.....

[Lizz]

Oliver Holt still doesn't see things your way...

My apologies to those Aston Villa fans I may have offended by pouring scorn on the comments of Randy Lerner’s right-hand man, General Charles C Krulak, after he launched a scathing attack on Martin O’Neill.

I am happy to accept General Krulak’s 36 years in the US Marines and his involvement in pointless, ­unsuccessful, imperialistic American wars in Vietnam and Iraq qualifies him as an English football expert.

If forced to buy a tabloid newspaper, my choice would, reluctantly, be The Mirror. This despite it coming across as petty and point scoring in a class war type of way. Oliver Holt's remarks about wars in Vietnam and Iraq are irrelevant, imo.

[midnite]

I don't know if this link has been poster before. If not, definately worth a read. Will cheer everyone up on here. Thinking of sending it to Oliver holt but I doubt he'll take time out of his "busy day" coming up with such fantasy as to make star wars look normal

http://schmusing.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/greatest%C2%A0schmeatest/

[Gregorys Boy]

First thing to say is that I thought their comments at the experse of the club did go a bit far, only time will tell if we do become a selling club.  Fact is I can see both points of view in the O'Nell v Club thing.  Martin was an ambitius man, and the reality is for us to move forward we did need further investment.  Then again the club had already given him a lot of money, and of couse you have to balance the books at the end of the day.

But can you really say that much of what they said is wrong. O'Neill was our best asset, he did make stars out of the likes of Milner, Young and Gabby.  We were always gareteed a top six finish at least.  And I think its pretty fair to point out that the result on Saturday was with MON's team and is something we may have done with him.

I actually think Holt's comments about the genaral were funny, he should seek a stand up career! Actually on a side note I do find him to be one of the fairer, more balanced jouo's.

Also I have to say how twofaced many of you are becoming.   If it was the other way around, and Randy had left the club, you would all be defending MON and slagging off Leiner.  And Woodhall's idea than the press have been waiting for this all along is just too far fetched.  Our ex-manager has owned his high standinding in the game.

[dave.woodhall]

Also I have to say how twofaced many of you are becoming.   If it was the other way around, and Randy had left the club, you would all be defending MON and slagging off Leiner.  And Woodhall's idea than the press have been waiting for this all along is just too far fetched.  Our ex-manager has owned his high standinding in the game.
[/quote]

We'd have a different opinion if something different happened, and that's two-faced? I don't understand the logic of that. And it's Mister Woodhall to you, Boy.

[pauliewalnuts]

But can you really say that much of what they said is wrong. O'Neill was our best asset, he did make stars out of the likes of Milner, Young and Gabby.  We were always gareteed a top six finish at least.  And I think its pretty fair to point out that the result on Saturday was with MON's team and is something we may have done with him.

How many times in the last four years did we play like that at Villa Park? I'm guessing six or seven, and two of those were Bolton playing their annual suicidal high line against us.

O'Neill did well with Young and Milner, yes, but far too often he made a collection of very expensive footballers look like a collection of very average ones.

I remember when that Stoke fan came on here and said "you're just a slightly more expensive version of us". I laughed it off at first, but then thought, actually, he had a point.

[Nelly]

I don't know if this link has been poster before. If not, definately worth a read. Will cheer everyone up on here. Thinking of sending it to Oliver holt but I doubt he'll take time out of his "busy day" coming up with such fantasy as to make star wars look normal

http://schmusing.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/greatest%C2%A0schmeatest/

That was such a great read! Really lifted my spirits! cheers man!

[Gregorys Boy]

But there was nothing boring about the way we played, its a little too easy to dismiss a hard working, in your face side who don't play free flowing football as boring.  Infact it was our enegy, and exciting pace on the counter that actually made for some very enjoyable games under O'Neill.

No Dave the reason their two-faced is because many were prising the manager before this, and now because he's no longer around and because of the manor of his depature have decided to make him out to be some kind of nazi. 

I am all for backing the club and all, but that doesn't mean we should go too far the other way.  Also if some of the stories are true then it is a bit concerning for the future.  But I am willing to wait and see on that one.

[Billy Walker]

We should also remember that in 1957 Manchester United were the standard bearers for English football in a way no other club has been before or since.

I hear your points Dave but I reckon Villa's showing against Hitler's Germany/Austria back in the 1930's was perhaps (in my view) the very definition of a football club being a standard bearer for English football (and even the British Government itself!).  My view would be that a lot of people share your opinion about Man Utd in the 1950's but this general concensus has been formed with no little help from the media and the likes of Mr. McGhee.  It's something the North West and London clubs have courted for years.  It's something that Midland clubs have never been given a sniff of.

When I was a kid growing up in the 80's I must have seen references to Man Utd's European Cup Final versus Benfica  on the box umpteen times.  A clip on Football Focus here, a snatch of it on Grandstand or Saint and Greavsie there.  The BBC even had a whole evening of TV devoted to George Best and Man Utd one Friday - and this was before the days of Fergie success!  No wonder our local clubs started losing potential supporters to them - they were forever being bigged up and celebrated, even when they were sh*te.  Blatant media bias.  I used to wonder why they never showed clips of Villa winning the Big One in the same way?  Why no evening on national TV celebrating Villa's history, celebrating our European Cup win and such like? Why no documentary on that Villa tour of Germany in the 1930's?  It's not that people wouldn't have been interested, it is because, surely, the media didn't create that interest?

Villa were still  England's second most successful club side for trophies by the 1980's but did that ever get a mention?  Nope.  Did the media ask us to be part of the Big Five when Man Utd fan Greg Dyke plotted a new era of live football on the box?  Not at all...it was a club for North West and London sides only.

There's no doubt about it, since the media really got involved in football, Birmingham and the Midlands have been treated appallingly.  We have not been given a fair crack of the whip or equal treatment or promotion.  How I would love it if we could have just a few years of Villa being number one and taking these bloated, bone-idle hacks to the cleaners!

 

[dave.woodhall]

But there was nothing boring about the way we played, its a little too easy to dismiss a hard working, in your face side who don't play free flowing football as boring.  Infact it was our enegy, and exciting pace on the counter that actually made for some very enjoyable games under O'Neill.

No Dave the reason their two-faced is because many were prising the manager before this, and now because he's no longer around and because of the manor of his depature have decided to make him out to be some kind of nazi. 

I am all for backing the club and all, but that doesn't mean we should go too far the other way.  Also if some of the stories are true then it is a bit concerning for the future.  But I am willing to wait and see on that one.

There was plenty that was boring about the football, and the reason they are not two-faced is because circumstances have changed. Our manager walked out on us at the worst time possible, which would make anyone think about changing their opinion of him.

[pauliewalnuts]

But there was nothing boring about the way we played, its a little too easy to dismiss a hard working, in your face side who don't play free flowing football as boring.  Infact it was our enegy, and exciting pace on the counter that actually made for some very enjoyable games under O'Neill.

It is all subjective, though.

I found our home performances for two years were very often boring. What isn't subjective are measures like goals scored and passes completed, both of which put us down there with the Stokes and Boltons of this world.  You're right, counter attacking can be exciting, and away from home it often was, but it was O'Neill's abject failure to find a tactic which worked at home (when you can't counter attack, because teams defend) that bothered me most.

Ask yourself this, after having finished sixth three times, and having had the manager walk out on us, why do you think so few people on here are really upset about it? There must be something to it? I don't think it is the failure to crack the top four - even I don't think that is a fair stick to beat him with. So what is it?

Out of interest, which do you think were the exciting performances of the last two years?

[dave.woodhall]

We should also remember that in 1957 Manchester United were the standard bearers for English football in a way no other club has been before or since.

I hear your points Dave but I reckon Villa's showing against Hitler's Germany/Austria back in the 1930's was perhaps (in my view) the very definition of a football club being a standard bearer for English football (and even the British Government itself!).  My view would be that a lot of people share your opinion about Man Utd in the 1950's but this general concensus has been formed with no little help from the media and the likes of Mr. McGhee.  It's something the North West and London clubs have courted for years.  It's something that Midland clubs have never been given a sniff of.

When I was a kid growing up in the 80's I must have seen references to Man Utd's European Cup Final versus Benfica  on the box umpteen times.  A clip on Football Focus here, a snatch of it on Grandstand or Saint and Greavsie there.  The BBC even had a whole evening of TV devoted to George Best and Man Utd one Friday - and this was before the days of Fergie success!  No wonder our local clubs started losing potential supporters to them - they were forever being bigged up and celebrated, even when they were sh*te.  Blatant media bias.  I used to wonder why they never showed clips of Villa winning the Big One in the same way?  Why no evening on national TV celebrating Villa's history, celebrating our European Cup win and such like? Why no documentary on that Villa tour of Germany in the 1930's?  It's not that people wouldn't have been interested, it is because, surely, the media didn't create that interest?

Villa were still  England's second most successful club side for trophies by the 1980's but did that ever get a mention?  Nope.  Did the media ask us to be part of the Big Five when Man Utd fan Greg Dyke plotted a new era of live football on the box?  Not at all...it was a club for North West and London sides only.

There's no doubt about it, since the media really got involved in football, Birmingham and the Midlands have been treated appallingly.  We have not been given a fair crack of the whip or equal treatment or promotion.  How I would love it if we could have just a few years of Villa being number one and taking these bloated, bone-idle hacks to the cleaners!

 

We had our success at the worst possible time, firstly because no-one cared about football then, and second because we were just another English club winning the European Cup. By then it was no big deal, and it wasn't until the first time an English club won it post-European ban. And look what club it was. There's also something to be said for the fact that we didn't have anything to hang our success on. Forest had Clough, Manchester United had Best-Law-Charlton, Liverpool had all the trophies they won. We were a team with few standout names (although Gary Shaw would have become one) and a manager who made it plain he couldn't stand the media. 

[Gregorys Boy]

Well Wigan away second half two years ago, we were outstanding in the wins at Liverpool and Man Utd, played very well in the 2-1 defeat to Arsenal in December 2007, and the thrashing of the blues also.

No I don't buy that Dave.  I am as let down as by the manager walking out on us five days before the season, it was very ill thought out we deserved better.  But that still doesn't mean that your overall view should change.  For me the guy has always come accross as a very charming, likeable guy who has done more good than bad for Villa, and one mistake cannot change that.

[dave.woodhall]

Well Wigan away second half two years ago, we were outstanding in the wins at Liverpool and Man Utd, played very well in the 2-1 defeat to Arsenal in December 2007, and the thrashing of the blues also.

No I don't buy that Dave.  I am as let down as by the manager walking out on us five days before the season, it was very ill thought out we deserved better.  But that still doesn't mean that your overall view should change.  For me the guy has always come accross as a very charming, likeable guy who has done more good than bad for Villa, and one mistake cannot change that.

Five games in four years, and whatever good he did will always have to be judged against the way he left us.

[Gregorys Boy]

No I was asked to name examples of us playing well, not to name every game we played well in.  Surely the fact we were competive in most matches against the big four, and had a great team sprit thoughout his reign is another positive. 

I just don't get what more people expected in four seasons, I don't see anyone saying Moyles has done an evenge job at Everton, he's been there longer and with the execption of the one year they finished fourth Everton have done no better than us in that time.