England national team

[john e]

Nothing wrong with being patriotic.

Strong disagree, for the reasons outlined.

That’s ridiculous if someone feels patriotic it’s not wrong any more than someone who doesn’t feel patriotic is wrong

Why? I think being proud of a plot of land you happen to be born in is just as silly as being proud of being white and potentially as dangerous.

Rather than saying it's ridiculous, why not explain the merits of patriotism?

Explain? Have you not seen the World Cup
thousands of fans literally from all over the world being patriotic supporting their countries it’s a joy to see
there’s obviously other ways of being patriotic but as I think your an absolute bell end I’m not sure I want to get into debating what’s pretty obvious to most people

[PaulWinch again]

Supremacist nationalism is for twats but there is nothing wrong with a belief in the nation as a community with a heritage and a culture which binds it together as something with a greater importance and continuity than us as individuals, or just us and our families. Without patriotism there is no Easter Rising or heroic defence of Stalingrad and Britain surrenders in 1940.

Exactly that. I think extreme nationalism and patriotism get incorrectly conflated at times.

[PeterWithesShin]

There's a massive difference between patriotism and jingoism, xenophobia, racism etc.

[Sexual Ealing]

Scottish fans that spent time in Fenway wearing kilts and singing Flower of Scotland were being patriotic, they don't seem to be a bad thing. They are there because of the plot of land they were born in.

This is a point about personal taste rather than moral philosophy, but that’s much less problematic for me because it has no associations with the expression of power (the role of Scots in the empire notwithstanding).

[PeterWithesShin]

But is not thinking that an Englishman and a Scotsman doing the same thing is somehow different itself an unpleasant view?

[Sexual Ealing]

You can see it that way. I don’t.

[Ads]

Flower of Scotland is xenophobic (not that I am arsed).

[Richard E]

Fondness for where you are from is no more (or less) irrational than supporting a particular football team, or being in love with a particular human being, or celebrating being born on the occasion of one specific rotation of the earth around the sun.

When it comes down to it everything we do is ultimately arbitrary and meaningless. Have a great weekend everyone!!!

[Sexual Ealing]

Flower of Scotland is xenophobic (not that I am arsed).

I’m not arsed either so I’m not getting into it. I disagree though.

[Ads]

Flower of Scotland is xenophobic (not that I am arsed).

I’m not arsed either so I’m not getting into it. I disagree though.

Its like a sadder version of 10 German Bombers or the Noses singing about Stern John equalising against us. But its an anthem rather than a pub song for patio furniture molesters.

[PeterWithesShin]

You can see it that way. I don’t.

So you don't have an issue with a predetermined view of someone doing something based on their nationality while have a different view of someone of a different nationality doing exactly the same thing?

[Sexual Ealing]

Fondness for where you are from is no more (or less) irrational than supporting a particular football team, or being in love with a particular human being, or celebrating being born on the occasion of one specific rotation of the earth around the sun.

When it comes down to it everything we do is ultimately arbitrary and meaningless. Have a great weekend everyone!!!

Nobody, to my knowledge, is advocating against the consecration of the Shrewsbury maternity bed where I emerged bloody and triumphant from that woman.

[Richard E]

And quite rightly so.

[Sexual Ealing]

You can see it that way. I don’t.

So you don't have an issue with a predetermined view of someone doing something based on their nationality while have a different view of someone of a different nationality doing exactly the same thing?

I don’t really recognise the terms of the question. I don’t have a predetermined view of people. I have an opinion on some behaviour, which, as I explained, is based on personal preference rather than a manifesto I intend to impose on anyone else.

[AV82EC]

It seems to be becoming a thing to be a self hating Englishman ( a proud Liberal middle class tradition like most things stolen by the “left”) Of course like any sensible person I can be thoroughly ashamed of the actions distant and not so distant of fellow countrymen but also immensely proud of the many positive things this country has done for the culture of the world. It’s not either/or. Ultimately there are ****** in every corner of the globe being English doesn’t have a monopoly on being a ******.