Aston Villa v Palace Post-Match Thread

[Percy McCarthy]

Out of interest, across those games is the only difference Mings or Torres playing?

Of course not, but if you're discounting data that conclusive then all statistical analysis involving variables needs to be ruled void.

No, but we also know that Carlos/Pau with Konsa at RB was better than Konsa/Pau with Cash at RB.

Yes, precisely. Stats like that can be misleading, because there’s a whole host of variables. I don’t doubt Mings is a more dominant defender, I just don’t think it translates into Torres being a waste of space. I think in form and in the right combination they’re both proven to have been very valuable players.

Stats can prove a lot of things and nothing. See above, Diego Carlos 🚨

Please use stats to prove that Konsa/Pau with Cash at right-back was a better defence than Carlos/Pau with Konsa at right-back.

I’ll wait.

We qualified for CL football with the former as our regular defence. Diego Carlos was in the main awful (yes but Haaland/Arsenal etc) and deservedly sold. Your loyalty towards him is quite something. Days like Ipswich convinced Emery that Konsa at RB wasn't going to work and I suspect the final straw for Carlos. Car crash at Spurs and Liverpool afterwards from the pair of them. Emery wanted Carlos gone so much we sold him and had to play Kamara CB for a few games. Why was that? When was the last time Konsa was played RB in the PL? Even after Disasi came in, has he played there even once?

The only debate worth having is why as a team we have dropped off maybe ~6 points from last season over 38 games and how we address it next season. It's a bit more nuanced than your selective stats.

Well, we got 5 fewer points against Arsenal for a start, but then again, we didn’t concede any goals against them last season. Defence must have played well, whoever they were… I forget.

Anyway, it’s not loyalty to Carlos, or else why do you think I prefer Mings? All I’m ‘loyal’ to is conceding fewer goals and keeping more clean sheets. Aren’t we all, except you? That’s what happens when Konsa/Mings play, what happened sometimes but less often when Carlos/Pau played with Konsa at RB, and almost never happens when Konsa/Pau play with Cash at RB.

If you’re going to criticise the use of selective stats, you probably shouldn’t dismiss 15 of the last 21 clean sheets we kept before Mings’ return as “Haaland/Arsenal etc.” But as you were even more selective yourself, here’s what you meant by “Haaland/Arsenal” and a comparison with the defence you think is so much better…

Clean sheets with Carlos @ CB since Mings injury:

Hibs 0 Villa 5
Villa 1 Mostar 0
Villa 1 Man City 0
Villa 1 Arsenal 0
Everton 0 Villa 0
Sheff Utd 0 Villa 5
Villa 4 Ajax 0
Villa 2 Wolves 0
Arsenal 0 Villa 2
Young Boys 0 Villa 3
Villa 1 Bayern 0
Man Utd 0-0*
Villa 2 Bologna 0
Juventus 0-0
Southampton 1-0

*Cash played RB. Konsa played RB in 13 of the above games, I forget which other one he missed.

Now, I know that don’t impress you much, so let’s move England’s Ezri Konsa over to replace the absolutely shit Carlos, and replace Konsa with “massive upgrade” Matty Cash, play them in more games against worse teams, and enjoy the improvement…

Clean sheets without Carlos and with Konsa @ CB  and Cash @RB (since Mings injury and before his return):

Villa 4 Everton 0
Villa 3 Hibs 0
Boro 0 Villa 1
Ajax 0 Villa 0
Chelsea 0 Villa 1
Chelsea 0 Villa 0

Now, I don’t think for a minute we were perfect when Carlos/Pau played with Konsa at RB and I was happy enough when Carlos sorted himself a deal (as Emery said) that didn’t result in an FFP loss. Sometimes, that defence was shocking. But sometimes it was outstanding, and it was outstanding in the toughest games, which as you can see from the list above, was when Emery relied on it. The defence you preferred while Mings was out was (sometimes) shocking against any old shite, and when it had the chance over the last couple of weeks to match up to those results in the first list above, it flopped badly.

But it could have been worse. Imagine if Emery had picked yesterday’s defence against Arsenal or Man City last season, or in the CL league phase this season. We’d have less wonderful memories and a lot less money.

[Clampy]

Not long got back. There's not much you can say about that is there? There was so much wrong , it's hard to know where to start. Gutting.

[LeonW]

John McGinn, speaking to BBC:

"Obviously massive disappointment. The manager spoke at length in there to remind us of how far we've come. It's not to get away from the disappointment.

"What was at stake today was huge for both clubs, but for us we are craving success and a trophy. The club has not experienced that for a long time. But the manager doesn't have to rant and rave, it was a huge disappointment.

"We're going to use the hurt from today to come back stronger next season and hopefully get the supporters another trip to Wembley. The overriding feeling is hurt and disappointment. We've got an important last four games to achieve European football again and get us back to the Champions League so we can't sulk for too long."

"We have had a lot of praise for last couple of seasons, now we will get criticism. We've got to take it on the chin, puff our chests out and try to stay together.

"It is easy for a day like this to disrupt and dismantle what we are building but we are building something special. Everyone within the club and outside the club can see that. The manager, the staff and the owners we've got, this club is set up and we'll be back here.

"At the moment it stings, but some days football comes and punches you in the face and today is one of those days."

Strong comments.
Showing honesty and leadership.

Fantastic. Great. But don’t tell me, show me.

[darren woolley]

We were poor I'm very disappointed because I thought we had a chance to win the FA Cup but what do I know.

[JUAN PABLO]

That Glasner could end up at spurzz ,  hes a good manager . Easily out witted Unai again .   Even Chavski should look at him.


Anyway , still gutted , no sleep tonight .

[ROBBO]

Unai has a stubborness about him and i believe plays favourites, taking Mings out of the side when he has been brilliant the last games he has played has an I know better feel about it. Playing Rogers on the right when it has been proven over the last weeks how inafectual he is in that position, most of all though this slow build up from the back is killing any momentum, I scream at the telly when our keeper stands with his foot on the ball looking around which side to pass it too. We play best with a high tempo game, moving the ball quickly, we havn't seen that too often lately except The Newcastle game when stupidly I thought we were back on it.

[remy]

Writing this 2am because can’t sleep with the sheer disappointment. Couldn’t get a ticket so bravo to those who spent £££ and got behind the team there.
Team selection announced and I have a bad feeling. 15mins in and we’re doing the away leg European cagey thing against an English blood and thunder side who are closing us down, forcing the error because we are giving them time to do it and not moving quick enough. 1-0 down and despite some pressure think SUE will change it HT.
Same lads for 2nd half and game will now be lost due to him sticking not twisting was my feeling.
We should have started the tempo like we do at VP and be on the front foot. Swarm all over them. So fucking disappointed and don’t know or care whether we rouse ourselves v Fulham.

[OzVilla]

I think we’ve run our race this season now. Will absolutely take Europa League if offered now. But a week ago it felt so different.

They do that to you this club and I really ought to know better by now.

[ChicagoLion]

Such a huge chance to write this Villa team into our History thrown away.

[Paul.S]

One of the most disappointing performances I can remember. I reckon that’ll be my last visit to Wembley. Horrible place and even worse when you keep losing there.

[LeonW]

Such a huge chance to write this Villa team into our History thrown away.

Pretty much feel the same, disappointment is huge. No excuses moving forwards.

[Ian.]

I’m not sure my all you can eat breakfast will be enough to lessen the feeling of yesterday.

Just looking back at the stats, they had four shots, three went in. How can we keep allowing teams to be so clinical against us from our own errors. It’s something we’ve had all season to contend with. It can’t just be bad luck.

It’s got be to do with the way we play when we try and slow it down too much, it’s inviting trouble and when we play a side with too much attacking quality we get punished.

[LeonW]

Took a moment to think about it; what a gutless, cowardly and tactically inept display that was.

[ChicagoLion]

I’m not sure my all you can eat breakfast will be enough to lessen the feeling of yesterday.

Just looking back at the stats, they had four shots, three went in. How can we keep allowing teams to be so clinical against us from our own errors. It’s something we’ve had all season to contend with. It can’t just be bad luck.

It’s got be to do with the way we play when we try and slow it down too much, it’s inviting trouble and when we play a side with too much attacking quality we get punished.

Another first chance and goal. Someone said that has happened 14 times this season.

[tony scott]

We have no playmaker replacement for Youri if he’s having an off day