Nottingham Forest vs Aston Villa post-match thread

[Percy McCarthy]

Does this put an end to the theory that our defensive frailties are directly attributable to Kamara’s absence? He played well tonight.

Is the theory that Konsa and Carlos are statistically part of our best defence still stacking up?

Yep. That’s a fact though, not a theory.

Once more for the people at the back…

As I pointed out when we bought him, and has been borne out since, Pau is quite weak defensively. We bought him for his progressive play, and Emery’s initial plan was to have him play alongside Mings, who was told at the time that he remained first choice.

Konsa and Pau with traditional full-backs either side are weak defensively, which is borne out by the clean sheet stats. At the risk of repeating myself (I know, I know), Konsa needs Mings, Pau needs a right-footed Mings. In the absence of these options, the solution that has worked more often than  the Konsa/Pau partnership is Carlos/Pau supplemented by Konsa as a defensive right-back. This is borne out by the fact that this line-up is responsible for the vast majority of our clean sheets since the start of last season.

None of the line-ups without Mings are consistently great, because there is nobody good in the air and no physically dominant leader/organiser. If you cast your mind back to the summer transfer thread, I was calling for a physically dominant right-sided centre-half as a priority, because I dreaded the thought of Cash at right-back against the level of teams we might face in the CL. Luckily, the make-do-and-mend defence we’ve seen so far in that competition has served us well so far, the only really costly mistake being made, ironically, by far and away our best centre-half.

Carlos IMO opinion is the worst centre-back of our four senior ones, but you can’t look at results and conclude that he is not part of our most EFFECTIVE defence without Mings. That’s simply factually incorrect.

Clean sheets with Carlos @ CB since Mings injury (Konsa was RB in 13 of these games):

Hibs 0 Villa 5
Villa 1 Mostar 0
Villa 1 Man City 0
Villa 1 Arsenal 0
Everton 0 Villa 0
Sheff Utd 0 Villa 5
Villa 4 Ajax 0
Villa 2 Wolves 0
Arsenal 0 Villa 2
Young Boys 0 Villa 3 (second-half only)
Villa 1 Bayern 0
Villa 0 Man Utd 0 (Cash at RB)
Villa 2 Bologna 0
Juventus 0-0
Southampton 1-0

Clean sheets without Carlos and with Konsa @ CB  since Mings injury:

Villa 4 Everton 0
Villa 3 Hibs 0
Boro 0 Villa 1
Ajax 0 Villa 0
Chelsea 0 Villa 1
Chelsea 0 Villa 0

The relative merits of opponent is worthy of consideration too.

I’d be interested in seeing the facts that contradict these ones, and the conclusion I’ve come to, but I won’t hold my breath as you only post theories that are not borne out by facts.

[TonyD]

I don’t understand the love for Kamara.
He is neat and tidy but IMO doesn’t add to our attacking flow.

[VillaTim]

Is Hause still on the books and available .

[cdbearsfan]

Thought we controlled the game well after our goal, no fancy football and stupid passing, until we went to pot truthfully expecting Watkins to cause forest a few problems but didn't really notice it

"Controlled the game well after our goal" ??
Have you been drinking

No and do me a favour please don't reply to my comments ,(comment edited for what I really meant to say)

In the nicest possible way , don't post utter rubbish then .
We did not control the game after we scored . It was the polar opposite .

I asked you to not to comment on my posts

Don't post rubbish , we have a deal .

fuck off

Get your head down , school tomorrow.

How do I block this twat?

This is one hell of a quoteathon

Agreed. Quite enjoying it, though. It's about to go full Reservoir Dogs, IMO.

[VillaTim]

I don’t understand the love for Kamara.
He is neat and tidy but IMO doesn’t add to our attacking flow.

He's a very good player but needs a sidekick . He can't do it all on his own .

[Percy McCarthy]

Sunday school?

[VillaTim]

Sunday school?

Good for the soul .

[edgysatsuma89]

I don’t understand the love for Kamara.
He is neat and tidy but IMO doesn’t add to our attacking flow.

He's pretty important to our attacking flow. I think he's probably our best player so we're definitely on different pages!

[eamonn]

Stop quoting after it gets to 5 quotes you fvxking animals.

[ROBBO]

Kamara is a very good player, rarely gets beaten and has good control, if you don't rate him hate to see what you think of the others.

[Rigadon]

Just saw the Rogers foul. Fuck me, that’s a stonewall penalty.  How on earth isn’t that given?  The refereeing this season is really really poor - consistently bad.   They obviously have a directive to ‘let the game flow’ which allows for persistent fouling.  What that’s adding to the spectacle I don’t honestly know. 

Anyway, still up there and fighting in a sea of inconsistency.  Need reinforcements in January in key positions. 

[nick harper]

Just saw the Rogers foul. Fuck me, that’s a stonewall penalty.  How on earth isn’t that given?  The refereeing this season is really really poor - consistently bad.   They obviously have a directive to ‘let the game flow’ which allows for persistent fouling.  What that’s adding to the spectacle I don’t honestly know. 

Anyway, still up there and fighting in a sea of inconsistency.  Need reinforcements in January in key positions. 

That directive means the PGMOL are getting ever further away from the way games are refereed in Europe. Pretty much different rules which is a nonsense.

Those are fouls in Europe 100% of the time.

[ChicagoLion]

Just saw the Rogers foul. Fuck me, that’s a stonewall penalty.  How on earth isn’t that given?  The refereeing this season is really really poor - consistently bad.   They obviously have a directive to ‘let the game flow’ which allows for persistent fouling.  What that’s adding to the spectacle I don’t honestly know. 

Anyway, still up there and fighting in a sea of inconsistency.  Need reinforcements in January in key positions. 

That directive means the PGMOL are getting ever further away from the way games are refereed in Europe. Pretty much different rules which is a nonsense.

Those are fouls in Europe 100% of the time.

It’s also a cop out, if you let everything go you don’t have to make any decisions.

[Mister E]

Just saw the Rogers foul. Fuck me, that’s a stonewall penalty.  How on earth isn’t that given?  The refereeing this season is really really poor - consistently bad.   They obviously have a directive to ‘let the game flow’ which allows for persistent fouling.  What that’s adding to the spectacle I don’t honestly know. 

Anyway, still up there and fighting in a sea of inconsistency.  Need reinforcements in January in key positions. 

That directive means the PGMOL are getting ever further away from the way games are refereed in Europe. Pretty much different rules which is a nonsense.
Those are fouls in Europe 100% of the time.

It’s also a cop out, if you let everything go you don’t have to make any decisions.

... one of the unintended consequences of VAR; PGMOL have buried their head in the sand on this, choosing to allow the Shockley Park ref to the work of the on-ref. Other issues are similarly corrupted (like, not retreating 10 yds from a free kick).

[HolteLower]

Still feels shit this morning. Haunted by the sight of our appalling defensive mistakes for their goals. Not one of our centre backs went up to challenge for the cross for the first one - too busy ball watching and words fail over Cash and Konsa for the second not to mention Emi sadly. Mings a big miss for that game I think. Forest typical team we struggle against - direct with big centre forward and big defenders. Feels like we need a reset and some action in the January window.