Summer 2024 Transfer Window - hopes, speculation, rumours etc.

[Dave]

If you “don’t see it” with Bailey, then you’re not looking properly, or don’t know what you’re looking for.

As I said, someone who doesn't give the ball away as much.  Look at the comparisons in the teams where we should be aiming to be.

I guess his closest comparisons would be Doku at Man City, Dias at Liverpool and Saka at Arsenal then?

I've not watched as much of any of them as I have of Bailey, but certainly the first two don't strike me as much better at keeping the ball than Bailey does for us.

Splitting hairs Dave, but Salah and Foden are the direct comparisons at Liverpool and Man City (ie. left footers playing on the right). 

Ok, so the "it" that you don't see with Bailey is that he's not Salah or Foden?

Tough crowd.

[Demitri_C]

Both have had setbacks through major injuries. Both have been better in the past than they are showing. Both are young enough to still have very good careers in the game.

However this season Zani has been better than ESR, Zani had the worse injury troubles and Zani was far better before injuries than anything ESR has ever shown. There's a reason he was lauded as the replacement for Totti.

Indeed. Zaniolo's best is better than Smith-Rowe's best. Neither get into our first team. Neither has shown enough that we should be spending £20-30m on them.

How ? Zaniolo has not even come remotely close to ESRs best season in england. In 21/22 season ESR got 10 goals and 2 assists in 33 games and that was young. Zaniolo hasnt even scored 3 league goals this season and has lookes totally hopeless most of season.

This is based on england being onw of the most difficult leagues in the world.  Zaniolos stats 24 games 2 goals 0 assists. Absymal

[Smithy]

I think this is one of those instances where we watch the Villa with different eyes to when we watch football in general. Bailey's performances for most of this season have belonged in the real top echelon of wingers in this league.

It's also true that we watch 90+ minutes of a Villa performance, and see lots of stuff that doesn't work, or doesn't come off, or the odd bad decision, while also only seeing the highlights of other teams/games, which sometimes gives a false impression of how good other players are compared to our own.  I know for me personally, the only time I'll ever see non-Villa player for an entire game is when they play us, or in an International game.

Bailey has had a terrific season, 10 goals, 9 assists (in the league).  There aren't many wingers in the premier league with those sorts of numbers this season.  Bowen, Saka, Gordon maybe, but that's about it.  And he's done all that while only playing the equivalent of about 21 league games (he's only been on the pitch about 65% the amount of time as Ollie, for example).

This season he's reached elite level, in my opinion. If Ollie hadn't been so outstanding, he'd probably be favourite for our player of the season. Now, to temper that, he obviously has to prove it's not a one-off season for him - obviously - but if he continues at this level for another 12-18 months, we'll be fighting off the likes of Real Madrid for him.

[Monty]

Being left-footed on the right isn't the relevant comparison though: it's their role in the team. Foden is a drift-inside playmaker type; Doku is the purer winger, and therefore the Bailey equivalent.

And I'd love to check the statistics but my impression of Saka and Salah is that they do, actually, give the ball away a fair amount! Saka for sure spends half his time pretending to limp having gone down too easily to fool the ref.

Would say furthermore that Bailey has passed the 'outside eyes test' - that is, whenever I talk to fans of other teams, one of our players they unfailingly bring up being impressed by is Bailey. It goes Watkins, Martinez, McGinn, Bailey, every single time without exception.

[Dave]

Both have had setbacks through major injuries. Both have been better in the past than they are showing. Both are young enough to still have very good careers in the game.

However this season Zani has been better than ESR, Zani had the worse injury troubles and Zani was far better before injuries than anything ESR has ever shown. There's a reason he was lauded as the replacement for Totti.

Indeed. Zaniolo's best is better than Smith-Rowe's best. Neither get into our first team. Neither has shown enough that we should be spending £20-30m on them.

How ? Zaniolo has not even come remotely close to ESRs best season in england. In 21/22 season ESR got 10 goals and 2 assists in 33 games and that was young. Zaniolo hasnt even scored 3 league goals this season and has lookes totally hopeless most of season.

This is based on england being onw of the most difficult leagues in the world.  Zaniolos stats 24 games 2 goals 0 assists. Absymal

Because football exists in a world outside of the Premier League.

[tomd2103]

It's something I would've criticised before his rebirth, but this season his passing has been sublime.

It's a mad old take, Tom.

I'm not denying that he has been better this season Lee, just that he still loses the ball too often.

Also, it's not quitr what I said at the start of this particular conversation.  I said that if we were looking to take that next step and finish regularly in the top four and even challenge for the title, then I felt we would need better players in those attacking positions.  We're not going to be able to afford that, so probably a redundant question for the time being.

[LeeB]

Highlights bias is right, Saka played a ball inside yesterday under no pressure that was woeful and nearly ended in the equaliser for Man Utd. They all do it now and again.

[Monty]

Both have had setbacks through major injuries. Both have been better in the past than they are showing. Both are young enough to still have very good careers in the game.

However this season Zani has been better than ESR, Zani had the worse injury troubles and Zani was far better before injuries than anything ESR has ever shown. There's a reason he was lauded as the replacement for Totti.

Indeed. Zaniolo's best is better than Smith-Rowe's best. Neither get into our first team. Neither has shown enough that we should be spending £20-30m on them.

How ? Zaniolo has not even come remotely close to ESRs best season in england. In 21/22 season ESR got 10 goals and 2 assists in 33 games and that was young. Zaniolo hasnt even scored 3 league goals this season and has lookes totally hopeless most of season.

This is based on england being onw of the most difficult leagues in the world.  Zaniolos stats 24 games 2 goals 0 assists. Absymal

I know Serie A isn't the same up-and-down standard as England (though it does better in Europe, and without the weekends-off cheating tactic too...but I degress). However, Zaniolo before the injuries looked like the next phenomenon. Smith-Rowe is talented but skittish; Zaniolo is more talented, but something always seems to get in his way (often himself).

[LeeB]

Zaniolo is miles better on Football Manager. Here endeth discussion.

[Drummond]

Disposessed.

Bailey 39 times this season.

67 Diaz
56 Salah
46 Eze
44 Foden, Sterling
41 Palmer
38 Rashford, Gallagher
39 Son
36 Gordon, Jesus, Alvarez

[Drummond]

That's just in the Premier League. bailey has played more games than any of them too, other than Gallagher and Diaz.

[Smithy]

Being left-footed on the right isn't the relevant comparison though: it's their role in the team. Foden is a drift-inside playmaker type; Doku is the purer winger, and therefore the Bailey equivalent.

And I'd love to check the statistics but my impression of Saka and Salah is that they do, actually, give the ball away a fair amount! Saka for sure spends half his time pretending to limp having gone down too easily to fool the ref.

Leon's pass completion rate is 72%, Saka's is 75% and Salah's is 73%.  If "retaining the ball" better is something you're keen for your wingers to do, you aren't getting any significant improvement over Leon from either Saka and Salah.

If you want your wingers to try things, provide entertainment, and create goals and chances, then you have to accept they're going to lose the ball sometimes - even the very best in the world lose the ball when trying things.

The alternative, of course, is that you coach your wingers to focus on possession above all else, instead of trying things and being creative, but then you end up with Jack Grealish of 2024 instead of the Jack Grealish of 2021.  And I know which I'd prefer...

[Risso]

Of course just about every player can be improved upon, but when you get your make a list of players who need upgrading, it'll take quite a few before you get to Leon. Just about everybody else except Martinez or Watkins, in fact.

[LeeB]

Of course just about every player can be improved upon, but when you get your make a list of players who need upgrading, it'll take quite a few before you get to Leon. Just about everybody else except Martinez or Watkins, in fact.

Yep.

[tomd2103]

If you “don’t see it” with Bailey, then you’re not looking properly, or don’t know what you’re looking for.

As I said, someone who doesn't give the ball away as much.  Look at the comparisons in the teams where we should be aiming to be.

I guess his closest comparisons would be Doku at Man City, Dias at Liverpool and Saka at Arsenal then?

I've not watched as much of any of them as I have of Bailey, but certainly the first two don't strike me as much better at keeping the ball than Bailey does for us.

Splitting hairs Dave, but Salah and Foden are the direct comparisons at Liverpool and Man City (ie. left footers playing on the right). 

Ok, so the "it" that you don't see with Bailey is that he's not Salah or Foden?

Tough crowd.

You haven't taken the context of the original post into account Dave.  I said in the original.post that I felt we needed to address the full-back areas, central midfield, and possibly Duran as a back up to Ollie Watkins this summer if we are going to remain competitive in the top seven mix and push for a Champions League spot again.

I then said, if we are really going to push on and become a regular fixture in the top four and possibly even challenge for the title in the coming years, we would need to do the above and add absolute top quality players into those two attacking positions.