Aston Villa vs Sheffield United Post-Match

[ROBBO]

With the Bailey goal, yes it was a foul on the keeper and the ref should have blown for a free kick but he allowed play to continue, the ball bobbled around until the defender took control and passed the ball, at that time a new phase of play had begun. They had clear control of the play, the goal should have stood. With the handball, the still shot shows that it was his upper arm had made contact with the ball not the shoulder and it was a clear penalty. All the technowledgy available and they still get it wrong.

[mrfuse]

What’s the rule on phases of play? If Ramsey impeded the goalkeeper, it was very soft, but Sheff U had won the ball back and were trying to counter attack. They just lost the ball again. I don’t understand how far VAR goes back when it looks at goals.

Well this is my take on it. Ramsey does impede the keeper but it's very soft. Probably just about a foul which wasn't given.
The ball bounces around a bit then a couple of short United passes and a then a terrible clearance.
Clearly reading the rules it was the 2nd phase.

I don't think Ollie's was a penalty. The hand ball was a clear penalty.

Duran was trying to free himself from having his shirt pulled, which should have been a freekick instead wierdly given to them which they scored from.

Duran could have gone although it was accidental that his elbow hit the United player.

[Somniloquism]

I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.

As others have mentioned, they need to be clear on when they will go back to a foul after potentially a phase or two of play and when they will not. It is not a penalty decision so wouldn't have been looked at like say the one against Liverpool the other week which is why that was called back after so long. If Digne had scored, I would have been more for the decision to disallow, however they then had the break and it was their players poor pass which to me was another phase of play. I also didn't like the look at the pull, without showing the ref what the defender was doing to Ramsey to "force" him out of the goal keepers way. He had almost swapped shirts with him.

[Risso]

Thought we huffed and puffed our way to a point. Scores on the doors

Martinez -7 had little to do
Cash - 4 he was the man with all the space and ňtime tonight and wasted it either being too slow with his passing or a dreadful final ball.
Konsa - 6 a few loose balls but overall ok
Lenglet - 6 covered for Paus absence well.
Digne - 5 just didn’t go enough for me going forwards
Luiz - 6 ok, good cross for the goal but needed him to take more responsibility for upping the tempo.
McGinn - 6 ok but did his job diligently until he sold himself for their goal.
Ramsey - 4 poor tonight in thought and deed.
Bailey - 6 again ok but still not enough end product.
Diaby - 5 there were some green shoots of recovery tonight esp in 1st half but seems loathe to shoot.
Watkins - 5 kept trying but a dismal lack of service.

Dhuran 2 - abysmal, headless chicken.
Moreno 5 - didn’t really get that involved other than his headed chance.
Zaniolo 7 - good goal seemed energised and despite a few poor touches did alright.

Emery - 6 don’t think he got this set up right tonight with either the starting 11 or his subs.

Overall, we looked jaded and leggy and our squad depth looked a bit thin tonight. We were sloppy and slow in our play and just didn’t use our width to get behind a stubborn Sheff U defence. Fair play to Sheff U yes its eye bleedingly bad to watch but they were organised and disciplined and stick well to their plan. I’m happy with a point. Onwards…..

Agree with most of those scores. I'd probably give all of the defence apart from Cash a 7, because they kept Sheffield completely quiet for most of the evening, and it was only McGinn making an uncharacteristic slip up that led to the goal. Cash I agree with a 4, he was poor. I think Diaby would get a 4 too, he was very crap all match, and agree with Ramsey's 4 too. When your two players who can run with the ball and beat people don't do it, then it's always going to be difficult against a team with two banks of 5 behind the ball.

[Aldridge Villa]

As soon as you see most posts pre match predicting a comfortable win I tend to feel the worst. Coupled with a light show of some sort and a flat atmosphere a point wasn’t too bad. Onwards and upwards.

[Brend'Watkins]

We’re not familiar with what was in front of us tonight and while we persevered with our style to break it down it was unlikely to work. Man City have this issue and have had for years but then they have the likes of Silva, Foden and even Grealish dare I say, to get around it.
We need something similar.

[kippaxvilla2]

Slow, & uninspiring without Torres & Kamara.

We still battered the shit out of them for the most part, without ever looking like trying to get out of second gear.

Frustrating as fuck, but, as we become more respected, poorer teams managed by unimaginative people like Wilder will park the bus, & clamp it in setting cement. Thats their absolute right, because if they go toe to toe, they will get battered.

So respect to Sheff U for having a plan & using a predatory striker who did fuck all else all game but put the ball in the net. Not his fault of course, as he had zero service, but having a striker who can score at the drop of a hat can be invaluable.

Not overly impressed by the officials though. Had to have been either Liverpool or Arsenal fans.

The Konsa pen check looked the most like a foul for the 357 VAR checks in the first half (why only 2 mins added time?), especially if Ramseys was a foul for pulling their keeper. (it wasn't, of course).

The handball VAR in the second half where he tried to punch the ball didn't look like a handball to me as it looked like it hit his shoulder. Very few replays of it mind, unlike the Ramsey one. The Sheff U player was lucky as fuck mind, as a fraction lower & he is punching the ball away. Not very bright & he was lucky to get sway with it.

The Duran red car VAR check was a joke. Anybody with eyes could see that he was pushing one player away while trying to get himself released from another. The cut from the clip in the face of the little shit who fouled him in the first place was just desserts for the little shit who fouled him in the first place. And Im not quite sure why the free kick was given to Sheff U. Unless it was a drop ball because it went to VAR. Not sure why it went to Sheff U though...

All of the others looked fine to me. I think... There were quite a few, so may have missed one.

The disallowed goal made me angry as fuck. Ramsey barely touched their keeper. Their keeper touched Ramsey barely just as much. Their defender was pulling & pushing Ramsey at the same time. Now if thats a foul from Ramsey on their keeper, then their keeper & defender fouled Ramsey. Im not bothered about the phases of play argument, because it was all in a pretty quick sequence. We have had goals given against for contacts that were so far back in time that they were made by a T-Rex, so not concerned about that. But apart from the fact that it wasn't even contact worthy taking to VAR, I thought VAR decisions were to only be changed by VAR if they were "clear & obvious". There was fuck all clear & obvious about 15 frames of two arms in the vicinity of each other with a defender half in the way.

There was absolutely fuck all clear & obvious about that goal being disallowed.

Hopefully now though, it will make all of the Sheff Utd fans shut the fuck up about the "phantom goal". We are even in the high stakes officials cock up battle now, so less of the whining in the future about that one poor official decision. We all get them & here is a perfect example where they get one that costs us a big step in the table.

But overall, despite not being great, but weirdly dominating, its great to see that we keep battling until the end & no matter how I feel that we aren't ever going to score even if we play until next Thursday, we have frequently pulled something out of the bag, despite not being amazing.

That is what very good teams do...

And sat in 2nd again, even if it might only be for a day or two, shows how far we have come in such a short space of time.

I think you need to expand.

[Olof's Beard]

It's the sort of game that we would have won by three or four if we scored in the first half an hour. But the longer they frustrated us and kept the scores level, the more they would chance their arm on a couple of forays forward. We switched off for the goal and we're 1-0 down.

I don't blame Wilder for playing those tactics, it's up to us to find a way to beat teams that play like that now we have a target on our back. As it was, We kept attacking through the congested central areas when all the space was out wide and didn't really mix it up. I expected some tactical tweaks from Unai at half time but we got worse. Usually reliable players were sloppy with loads of underhit and misdirected passing and some shocking set piece deliveries.

It did surprise me that we looked the tired team late on not them given we'd enjoyed 80% possession but we didn't exactly have them chasing around at pace. For the most part, they were happy to just watch us stroke the ball around our defence and midfield.

Fair fucks to Zaniolo and the team in general for sneaking a draw, we've got a nice knack of scoring meaningful late goals and for winning points from losing positions. It felt really deflating to miss the chance to go top and lose the run to such a functional, limited team but I suppose that in itself shows how far we've come.

It's not the end of the world and I still think we can win at Old Trafford. Play Dendoncker though and let McGinn move forward where he is far more effective.

[TonyD]

Back from the pub(s)
Went with a few people and a couple of Sheff fans. 
Been a long time since watching us in the pub.
We just couldn’t break them down.
Wilder set them up well. So fair play to them.
Bloody lucky with 9 mins added time.
Anyhow. 
It ain’t all bad is it. 2nd !!
Merry Christmas to you all! 

[somersetlion]

Find it bizarre that some are in  panic/meltdown/mild what happened there. To me, what happened there is we played exactly as we do in home game against bottom half sides.  And tonight, because football is football and stuff happens, we didnt win when 99 times out of 100 that exact game plays out and we do. We just drew when we were losing in the 96th minute. To say thats anything other than a great result is bizarre (sorry second use of bizarre). 100% before the game thats a bad result. But how it panned out, thats a great result for us. How people can analyse this and say we were this and that and the other is weird. Weve played that exact game at least 4 or 5 times in our 15 game home winning run. Football is a low scoring, tight game at this level. U play how we played tonight u win a lot lot more than u lose.

[TonyD]

What’s the rule on phases of play? If Ramsey impeded the goalkeeper, it was very soft, but Sheff U had won the ball back and were trying to counter attack. They just lost the ball again. I don’t understand how far VAR goes back when it looks at goals.

This. 

[tomd2103]

Was at the game earlier in the North Stand and there was confusion as to why Bailey's goal was ruled out.  Only just watched the highlights and find the decision to rule it out baffling really. 

Sheff Utd had the ball under control and were breaking before they gave the ball away, so I don't know why it was pulled back.  They need to clarify exactly how far they can go back to disallow goals. 

Shame, as I think we would have gone on to win that if that goal would have stood.  Just thought we looked a bit lethargic and seemed to tire towards the end.  I would have personally switched things at half-time and brought either Dendoncker or young Tim on and pushed McGinn further up as he isn't as effective in that deeper role.

[ChicagoLion]

Was there any point Anthony Taylor being on the pitch seeing as he relied on VAR to make every decision?

Another useless ref off the production line.

[Richard E]

I thought we played pretty well up until the disallowed goal but seemed to lose our way after the disruption and the annoyance that delay and decision caused.

[London Villan]

Exactly what Emery said.