Champions League Contention

[SaddVillan]

This is what Alan Shearer said on the BBC Website about Liverpool and Arsenal's performances this weekend.


"No-one expected Liverpool and Arsenal to end up both being beaten this weekend, but I've been in their situation myself and this is what happens [in a title run-in] especially in must-win games at home. If you don't score early, everyone gets very nervy.

On the pitch, players can hear the moans and the groans in the crowd after every wasted chance - or even a misplaced pass - the kind of things that no-one was too bothered about a few months ago.

It doesn't matter how strong your attack is normally, because when the ball suddenly won't go in the net it can start to feel like nothing is happening naturally or going for you in front of goal - and at the same time you get much edgier than usual every time the opposition gets into your final third.

The longer the game goes on like that the worse it gets, because you can hear more and more panic and desperation setting in. If you're the away then you feel it too, and you know your plan is working."

Very insightful.

Wonder how true it is of  Villa Park,  in terms of getting nervous and tense and transmitting that to the team? 

[Monty]

Yeah I think for Spurs fans they're in a bit of a moment of disillusion. Getting Champions League is more important for us than for them - they're established at a certain level with respect to revenues and reputation, and we're trying to establish that for ourselves.

[PaulWinch again]

It's not just the financial gap, it avoids a rebuild at a key time. Your Watkins, Luiz and Martinez will want to play at elite level for most of their career, and if you can legitimately claim by staying at Villa they will do so, that keeps the spine of the side intact.

Yep it shows players that they can fulfill their ambitions with us. We need to take this opportunity- the defensive level from yesterday needs to be maintained.

[curiousorange]

Sadd, exactly the same as at every ground, I'd imagine. This isn't aimed at you, just a general point, but I do get annoyed at this idea that Villa Park is especially quiet unless we're winning at a canter, while other teams are constantly cheered on by a wall of noise whatever the game is like. A crowd responds to what it's offered and that'll be the same everywhere you go in the Premier League.

[eamonn]

From memory, Blackburn never made much of a dent - my only recollection from their campaigns is Batty and Le Saux having a punch-up on the pitch in Moscow or somewhere.

Also the answer to the quiz question of the first English player to score a hat-trick in the Champions League.

God, I'd forgotten about that. It was the later game at home to Rosenberg, the perfect hat-trick by Mike Newell inside 9 minutes - a record that stood for 17 years according to this amusing article about Blackburn's art of falling apart following their Premier League title win in '95.

As for Jack Walker pleading with Shearer to stay after Euro'96 with an offer to become Blackburn's player-manager at 25...?!

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2016/08/13/what-not-to-do-in-the-champions-league-starring-blackburn-rovers/

[Smithy]

https://thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/top-4-struggling-to-care.49116/

I get where they're coming from. 

I am absolutely desperate for us to qualify because it's the only possible way that we can even begin to start bridging the financial gap.  That's less important to Spurs as they have such a strong commercial operation.  Having failed to progress in the CL so often, I can see why going deeper into the UEFA cup for a season or two could be quite appealing to their fans.

I think Spurs are progressing pretty well, they've got a good squad, are having a love affair with their manager and financially they can cope with not being in the CL next season.  For us, I feel it could be a transformative lifeline in terms of finance, retaining our best players and being taken more seriously as a top club.

I can understand that the novelty of playing in the CL wears off after a while.  We are the only big English club to have not qualified for it (in its modern form) and that has to be out straight.  It alone wouldn't transform the club - look at Newcastle - but it'd give us the chance to build rather than rebuild. 

The other thing to bear in mind is that a Spurs outside of the Champions League places would still be able to compete financially with a Villa team that was in it.  But the other way round? Then the financial gap becomes an absolute chasm.  We absolutely need to qualify for the Champions League in order to kick-start the necessary improvement in our commercial revenue, so that we can compete with clubs like Spurs, Chelsea and Man Utd, who still have the financial muscle to attract the best players, even if they have a year or two of being mediocre on the pitch.  If we were to have have a year or two of that with our finances the way they are, we would probably lose every single good player.

Champions League qualification isn't the destination.  It's just the next step towards building an infrastructure that can compete at the top end, for the long-term.

Wins against Palace and Bournemouth would probably be enough to guarantee it, but honestly, given yesterday's performance, you have to say we have a decent chance of beating every team we have left to play. 

If I was Spurs, I'd be nervously looking over my shoulder at Newcastle.  Their next three games are Palace, Sheff Utd and Burnley - all perfectly winnable.  If Spurs lose to Arsenal, that gap could be down to 1 point with them still to play Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City.

[Risso]

You don't see many proper punch ups these days, I remember Collymore having a right dust up at one match, Bolton away possibly? I tell you what else you don't see these days, free kicks inside the area with the wall all bunched up on the line. Didn't we concede one like that away at Liverpool in the mid 90s? What were they given for that wouldn't have seen a penalty awarded?

[curiousorange]

You don't see many proper punch ups these days, I remember Collymore having a right dust up at one match, Bolton away possibly? I tell you what else you don't see these days, free kicks inside the area with the wall all bunched up on the line. Didn't we concede one like that away at Liverpool in the mid 90s? What were they given for that wouldn't have seen a penalty awarded?

I think a backpass that gets picked up results in an indirect free kick in the area.

[Dave]

You don't see many proper punch ups these days, I remember Collymore having a right dust up at one match, Bolton away possibly? I tell you what else you don't see these days, free kicks inside the area with the wall all bunched up on the line. Didn't we concede one like that away at Liverpool in the mid 90s? What were they given for that wouldn't have seen a penalty awarded?

Keeper picking the ball up from a back-pass is the common one.

[Olneythelonely]

You don't see many proper punch ups these days, I remember Collymore having a right dust up at one match, Bolton away possibly? I tell you what else you don't see these days, free kicks inside the area with the wall all bunched up on the line. Didn't we concede one like that away at Liverpool in the mid 90s? What were they given for that wouldn't have seen a penalty awarded?

Yeah, him and Andy Todd throwing some proper hooks.

[Somniloquism]

Yeah I think for Spurs fans they're in a bit of a moment of disillusion. Getting Champions League is more important for us than for them - they're established at a certain level with respect to revenues and reputation, and we're trying to establish that for ourselves.

However, as mentioned a few times, the changes to the CL this season just means you can be 24th out of 36, and can still continue in Europe with a two legged match to determine either CL or Europa. So you could get the boosted money in the Champs league, and then still have the glory chase for silverware in the lower competition second half of the season.

Potential teams for next year should be:
Inter, Milan, Juventus, Roma, Bologna,
Leverkusen, Bayern, Stuttgart, Dortmund/ Leipzig, (Depends on 4th/5th finish and coefficient)
Citeh, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa/Spurs, (Depends on 4th/5th finish and coefficient)
Real, Barca, Girona, Athletico
PSG, brest, Monaco, Lille (although 4th place has to play a qualifying round win).
PSV, Feynoord, Twente /Alkmaar (Depending on 3rd place finish and qualifying round win)
Sporting, Benfica (runners-up plays a qualifier)
Union St Gilloise, Anderlecht, (runners-up plays a qualifier)
Celtic, Rangers (runners-up plays a qualifier)
Salzburg, SturmGraz. (runners-up plays a qualifier)

That list alone is close to 33 teams. I think we can easily finish halfway up a league containing them even only playing 8 of them once.

[Somniloquism]

You don't see many proper punch ups these days, I remember Collymore having a right dust up at one match, Bolton away possibly? I tell you what else you don't see these days, free kicks inside the area with the wall all bunched up on the line. Didn't we concede one like that away at Liverpool in the mid 90s? What were they given for that wouldn't have seen a penalty awarded?

Keeper picking the ball up from a back-pass is the common one.

Might be the only one as the only other indirect freekick award I can remember used to be obstruction.

[AV82EC]

Yeah I think for Spurs fans they're in a bit of a moment of disillusion. Getting Champions League is more important for us than for them - they're established at a certain level with respect to revenues and reputation, and we're trying to establish that for ourselves.

However, as mentioned a few times, the changes to the CL this season just means you can be 24th out of 36, and can still continue in Europe with a two legged match to determine either CL or Europa. So you could get the boosted money in the Champs league, and then still have the glory chase for silverware in the lower competition second half of the season.

Potential teams for next year should be:
Inter, Milan, Juventus, Roma, Bologna,
Leverkusen, Bayern, Stuttgart, Dortmund/ Leipzig, (Depends on 4th/5th finish and coefficient)
Citeh, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa/Spurs, (Depends on 4th/5th finish and coefficient)
Real, Barca, Girona, Athletico
PSG, brest, Monaco, Lille (although 4th place has to play a qualifying round win).
PSV, Feynoord, Twente /Alkmaar (Depending on 3rd place finish and qualifying round win)
Sporting, Benfica (runners-up plays a qualifier)
Union St Gilloise, Anderlecht, (runners-up plays a qualifier)
Celtic, Rangers (runners-up plays a qualifier)
Salzburg, SturmGraz. (runners-up plays a qualifier)

That list alone is close to 33 teams. I think we can easily finish halfway up a league containing them even only playing 8 of them once.

Som

From
Next season there’s no dropping down into the competition below if you get knocked out in the Play Off.

[Dave]

You don't see many proper punch ups these days, I remember Collymore having a right dust up at one match, Bolton away possibly? I tell you what else you don't see these days, free kicks inside the area with the wall all bunched up on the line. Didn't we concede one like that away at Liverpool in the mid 90s? What were they given for that wouldn't have seen a penalty awarded?

Keeper picking the ball up from a back-pass is the common one.

Might be the only one as the only other indirect freekick award I can remember used to be obstruction.

Similarly, I think if the keeper releases the ball from his hands and picks it up again then that's an indirect free-kick.

One that I don't recall seeing (but assume it would be), I think it's an indirect free-kick for deliberately delaying the restart of the game. So if a team had a free kick 20 yards out, decided to take it quickly by passing to someone in the box and the defender blocked the intended pass then that would presumably that would see the free-kick brought forwards to where the offence happened?

[Somniloquism]

Som

From
Next season there’s no dropping down into the competition below if you get knocked out in the Play Off.

I misread this

The top eight sides in the league will qualify automatically for the knockout stage, while the teams finishing in 9th to 24th place will compete in a two-legged play-off to secure their path to the last 16. The winners will join the top eight in that round. Meanwhile, teams that finish 25th or lower will be eliminated, with no access to the 2024–25 UEFA Europa League.[10]

In that the losers did get lower access and the teams below 24th were kocked straight out.