Tottenham Hotspur vs Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[ChicagoLion]

Spurs lost because they did not take the multiple chances and attacking situations they created.

[Rory]

So, equivalent of the two centre-backs out would be Mings and Konsa. We're half there already, so just imagine Carlos and Pau in there.

Next, Bentancur goes off, so that's Kamara being replaced by Tielemans, maybe McGinn moving inside.

After that, imagine our number ten and best wide-forward getting injured. Again,  halfway there, so let's say Diaby is replaced by Bailey and - hey, shit, we did that and actually got better based on the form situation!

They still have Son, we still have Watkins. They still have Porro, we still have Doug. Etc etc. Their injuries are a bit worse than ours, but it remains incredible to me how much more attention and pity some clubs get than others.

It's not the same though as we've been playing without Mings, Buendia, Ramsey and Morneo all season.

Isn't...isn't that worse?

Yeah, I'm struggling to see how them losing Van Der Ven and Maddison for 8-10 games is worse than us having lost Buendia and Mings for the entire season before half time in the first game.

It's not like for like. First of all we had Torres and Diaby to step in for Mings and Buendia. Secondly we didn't play 12 games, build our game around them, and get to the very top of the table, and then lose them, with no quality replacements there to step in.

Losing 2 players the opening weekend is shit. Losing 2 players to injury 3 months in, in the middle of an excellent run of form and going into some big games, is also shit.

Yeah, I guess you could say that, treating the game yesterday in isolation, we've had more chance to adjust and work around our absences than them.

I'd be much too busy saying "fuck off Tottenham" to say that myself, but it could've been a factor, I guess.

[LeeB]

Sorry, what was that, I missed it?

Anyway, fuck Spurs.

[AV84]

Ha, fair, I agree with you in that we're just in two different situations. However, that also runs counter to the woe-is-Spurs narrative the media are trying to sell to the Talksport marks.

Yeah, well the media knows what gets clicks and as I've said, half of them today are probably coming from Villa fans who seem to want to have something to get annoyed about.

Spurs fans seem to have bought the narrative the media are pushing, Jenas included, so now instead of saying actually we're still alright without these players, and we could get a few results in this period, they're painting the brave Spurs narrative. Because honest coverage of a full season of football would be quite boring really.

[Rory]

Sorry, what was that, I missed it?

Anyway, fuck Spurs.

Fuck off Tottenham.

Doesn't matter.

Fuck off Tottenham.

[pablo_picasso]

So, equivalent of the two centre-backs out would be Mings and Konsa. We're half there already, so just imagine Carlos and Pau in there.

Next, Bentancur goes off, so that's Kamara being replaced by Tielemans, maybe McGinn moving inside.

After that, imagine our number ten and best wide-forward getting injured. Again,  halfway there, so let's say Diaby is replaced by Bailey and - hey, shit, we did that and actually got better based on the form situation!

They still have Son, we still have Watkins. They still have Porro, we still have Doug. Etc etc. Their injuries are a bit worse than ours, but it remains incredible to me how much more attention and pity some clubs get than others.

It's not the same though as we've been playing without Mings, Buendia, Ramsey and Morneo all season.

Isn't...isn't that worse?

In terms of how we'd cope in the exact position Spurs are in it's neither better or worse, it's irrelevant.

We have a consistent starting 11 with 2 or 3 regular subs, and we've had a great start to the season, same as them. If we were to now be without 5 of those players for a handful of tough games we'd be very limited in how we could play.

The main difference is we've benefited from extra non league games and have utilised pretty much the full squad at this point so if we were suddenly without 5 players Emery wouldn't have to be experimenting in the league games to try and figure out how to deal with it. He'd have a pretty good idea of who can play where and in what combinations.

They have had three games with several players missing.

We have had a third of the season with several missing.

We started a bit rocky, but we worked out how to get results nonetheless due to our squad management.

Spurs might do the same, but I didn't hear anybody making excuses for us when we lost to Newcastle & Liverpool.

If Spurs couldn't get that squad management correct because they wanted to spunk all their money on expensive first teamers, then they only have themselves to blame.

And if they manage their injured players like the managed Bentancur yesterday, then they are getting what they deserve.

Especially when they have an extremely expensive replacement sat on the bench who actually did replace him when he went off...


Edit - I see the point you were making in the responses while I was writing. Yes, they are two different situations, but when they were similar for us at the beginning of the season while we adjusted, there was no media clamour to say we only lost to Newcastle & Liverpool because we were 4 important first teamers down, especially that whole left hand side of the pitch, where we did most of our attacking last season. I stand by my squad management point though... 👍

[rob_bridge]

I think the problem with Angeball is that it worked for the 11-13 players he had as his first choice team. Couple of injuries and suspensions come along and it seems like he hasn't bothered to figure out how best to use his full squad of 20whatever.

That's one of the benefits of European football, especially at Conference League level. Between all our non prem games this season pretty much the entire squad has had a run out. We've tried multiple combinations in defence, we've played people into form, and we've got a very clear idea of priorities for January. 

Also, I think we benefited in a way from having 4 injuries to key players before the season even started. We had to dig down into the squad from the start and managed to get results and momentum. Whereas Spurs, no Europe, no need to rotate players, were being heavily reliant on certain key players, and when they're the ones missing, there's no back up.

The Beeb mentioned a stat that we have had the most consistent team for the first 13 games with I think 8 ever-present starters. They didn't state who was second but I suspect some team in the bottom half. Part of this is because we have lost the four first choice's you mentioned but also means we might have struggled if we lost a couple more. Hopefully with Ramsey and Moreno back it does mitigate the dangers.

Entirely correct- Buendia would have interchanged with Diaby as a starter, Moreno and Digne and Ramsey for the 3rd attacker when we played that. Mings for Torres/Konsa etc..
Probably 4 or 5 in realtiy.

[Bad English]

How are Spurs' injury problems coming along? Has Bono spoken? I hear Bob Geldof might organise a concert to raise three points for them.

Anyway, up yours Tottingham!

[VillaTim]

Are they down to Bare Bones ?? no

Was it their B team ?? No

The media are trying to dilute the significance of our victory.

[paul_e]

Ha, fair, I agree with you in that we're just in two different situations. However, that also runs counter to the woe-is-Spurs narrative the media are trying to sell to the Talksport marks.

Yeah, well the media knows what gets clicks and as I've said, half of them today are probably coming from Villa fans who seem to want to have something to get annoyed about.

Spurs fans seem to have bought the narrative the media are pushing, Jenas included, so now instead of saying actually we're still alright without these players, and we could get a few results in this period, they're painting the brave Spurs narrative. Because honest coverage of a full season of football would be quite boring really.

That's not it for me, my issue with all the comments about how many players spurs had missing is that it's nonsense. Yes they have a few injuries and few suspensions but it's not an amount that won't happen to most clubs across the season and it's not the sort of thing that should lead to them claiming a moral victory for giving us a game with their reserves which has become the story since the final whistle. We went into the game with every chance of beating them even if they'd been full strength and loads of other teams have lost games like that without the commentators, pundits and press feeling the need to create excuses for them. Even then I don't care if all of those lot want to make themselves believe that, I just don't like seeing Villa fans buy into the nonsense, it just feeds back into this idea that we need the planets to align to win away at places like that.

[LukeJames]

That Spurs forum is almost at SHA levels of utter shite. It's been a brilliant read over the last couple of days.

"Rodri is a footballer, Cash isn't. The only question is whether Emery sends him out with instructions on who to take out"

[AV84]

Edit - I see the point you were making in the responses while I was writing. Yes, they are two different situations, but when they were similar for us at the beginning of the season while we adjusted, there was no media clamour to say we only lost to Newcastle & Liverpool because we were 4 important first teamers down, especially that whole left hand side of the pitch, where we did most of our attacking last season. I stand by my squad management point though... 👍

I did make that point about squad management way back in this thread. Our new signings over the summer were able to step into the injured positions so we weren't starting the season having to play academy kids to make up a starting 11 or anything, but we were still down 4 players in the wider squad. So we did have to dig a little deeper when it came to rotating players. Those experiments yielded good and bad, but it did leave us in a place where Emery knows exactly what everyone is capable of.

Spurs lost their opening League Cup tie (fielding what some called a 2nd string side) and have only had league games to play since, and it appears for all of Ange's good qualities, he hasn't been developing the whole squad, and is possibly alienating some of them too.

I think what it really shows is the difference between someone with the experience and eye for detail of Emery, compared to the can do a job to a point manager like Ange. He's still done well to get them to this point, and they were probably going to lose several of their games in this run of fixtures anyway, so maybe the injuries/suspensions will prove a blessing for him in that respect.

[VillaTim]

This has turned into a bizarre debate in all fairness

[AV82EC]

We haven't quite jumped the shark of investigating the real detail of Spurs Wage Bill but we can't be far away.

[AV84]

This has turned into a bizarre debate in all fairness

It's not really a debate. The media are overplaying how bad Spurs' injury/suspension problems are, but they are still unquestionably affected by the absence of several key players. Both are true.

Likewise, we won yesterday because we scored more goals than them, but they could easily have won it if they'd converted more of their chances, despite missing several key players.

But articles like "Team A Scored 2 and Team B scored 1, so Team A wins. Team B could have scored more, but they didn't. End of report." aren't likely to bring in a lot of engagement.