Our defence

[PeterWithesShin]

We have no combination of defenders that are consistently keeping clean sheets. As great as the CL has been so far if we don't sort out our defending in league games we won't be near qualifying for it next season. 9 in 54 league games is not what regular top 4 sides do. To give it some context, the car crash defence of 2015/16 kept 6 in 38 games.

[VillaTim]

Season before last our defence was one of the tightest . That involved Konsa/Mings as the regular CB's . I like Torres he's a cultured passer of the ball but he's a weak CB , as a striker I'd enjoy playing against him ,he's too soft .

[PaulWinch again]

He’s not a weak centre back, he’s the best we have. He might not be the best at physical battles but in the round his ability makes him far too important to the team to drop. Mings is a good player, and is better at physical aerial battles I’m sure, but general positioning, distribution, reading of the game Pau is better. It’s not as simple as looking at one issue and going, “player x might be physically stronger than player y”. It’s a team game and we’re a better team with Pau in it. Also, he did pretty well yesterday against the best side in the league.

[VillaTim]

I just look at the stats Paul and we now have enough data to confirm the defence is mid table level , sadly Torres is part of that .

[pauliewalnuts]

I just look at the stats Paul and we now have enough data to confirm the defence is mid table level , sadly Torres is part of that .

He's also a very important part of the way we play when we move the ball forward. And that's why looking at statistics does not tell the whole picture.

[brontebilly]

I just look at the stats Paul and we now have enough data to confirm the defence is mid table level , sadly Torres is part of that .

He's also a very important part of the way we play when we move the ball forward. And that's why looking at statistics does not tell the whole picture.

Might aswell make that post a sticky! Torres showed character to rebound from maybe his worst game with us v Spurs. That combo of Torres/Digne/Ramsey played out of the press countless times in the first half. The right hand side simply couldn't do it.

[Percy McCarthy]

If only there was some way of working out what constitutes a ‘better team’. Like a system of awarding points based on statistics like how many goals they score, and how many they concede.

I don’t think it would ever be as important as beating the press, but it would give us something else to focus on.

[Ads]

I just look at the stats Paul and we now have enough data to confirm the defence is mid table level , sadly Torres is part of that .

He's also a very important part of the way we play when we move the ball forward. And that's why looking at statistics does not tell the whole picture.

Exactly, this is not baseball and the ode to Paul DePodesta has become pretty boring.

[Percy McCarthy]

I just look at the stats Paul and we now have enough data to confirm the defence is mid table level , sadly Torres is part of that .

He's also a very important part of the way we play when we move the ball forward. And that's why looking at statistics does not tell the whole picture.

Exactly, this is not baseball and the ode to Paul DePodesta has become pretty boring.

I don’t think comparing goals and results equates to baseball-levels of statistical analysis.

I take it you would find stuff like ‘chances conceded on right-hand side of defence’ a bit dull and meaningless then, and not post such frivolous guff?

Oh.

[Ads]

I dont think watching the game is frivolous. Against a much weaker Bologna, as an example, an issue was exposed in the right hand side. The gap between Carlos and an out of position Konsa was exposed multiple times.

The right side was targeted, struggled to progress the ball and looked shakey in the first half in particular. Although their 2nd half chance was probably their best, which again, exposed the right hand side.

You cannot predict Carlos would do what he did on Saturday and another individual error would lead to another goal, but you cannot be suprised either given he's given away 4 of them in 8 or 9 games so far. You equally cannot say Konsa would have done better, but I struggle to recall him giving away goals to individual errors in the past 4 seasons. He is our best centre half.

I am glad Cash is likely to be fit again so Konsa can move inside to partner Torres against Palace. I think everybody is acutely aware of your opinion on Konsa being our best option at right back contrary to the statistical evidence of us conceding fewer goals with Cash on the pitch or a cursory analysis of patterns within games recently.

[Percy McCarthy]

I dont think watching the game is frivolous. Against a much weaker Bologna, as an example, an issue was exposed in the right hand side. The gap between Carlos and an out of position Konsa was exposed multiple times.

The right side was targeted, struggled to progress the ball and looked shakey in the first half in particular. Although their 2nd half chance was probably their best, which again, exposed the right hand side.

You cannot predict Carlos would do what he did on Saturday and another individual error would lead to another goal, but you cannot be suprised either given he's given away 4 of them in 8 or 9 games so far. You equally cannot say Konsa would have done better, but I struggle to recall him giving away goals to individual errors in the past 4 seasons. He is our best centre half.

I am glad Cash is likely to be fit again so Konsa can move inside to partner Torres against Palace. I think everybody is acutely aware of your opinion on Konsa being our best option at right back contrary to the statistical evidence of us conceding fewer goals with Cash on the pitch or a cursory analysis of patterns within games recently.

Except it’s not contrary unless you shrink the sample size. Why would one do that?

[Risso]

Unai has said the Premier League remains his main priority ahead of the Champions League. In the Premier League games, including the 'big' games against Arsenal and Spurs etc, Unai has chosen to start with Cash/Konsa over Carlos. Carlos is clearly a back up central defender, one who we were prepared to sell in the summer if the price was right. Carlos is a decent defender most of the time, but one who is prone to making mistakes that lead directly to goals, as he's done already this season.


Emery is playing Carlos in the Champions League games (and the League Cup) as a way of managing the squad, in the competition that is second (and last for the League Cup) on his list of trophies.

[Demitri_C]

What potential issues would we have if we played torres and mings as left sided defenders? I mean defensively we alreafy look a shamble could it really be that bad trying it?

[Percy McCarthy]

Unai has said the Premier League remains his main priority ahead of the Champions League. In the Premier League games, including the 'big' games against Arsenal and Spurs etc, Unai has chosen to start with Cash/Konsa over Carlos. Carlos is clearly a back up central defender, one who we were prepared to sell in the summer if the price was right. Carlos is a decent defender most of the time, but one who is prone to making mistakes that lead directly to goals, as he's done already this season.


Emery is playing Carlos in the Champions League games (and the League Cup) as a way of managing the squad, in the competition that is second (and last for the League Cup) on his list of trophies.

Debatable I think, as Cash has been mostly unfit.

Last season, with both fit, Enery picked Carlos in all the toughest Premier League games, suggesting he noticed the fact that we are defensively stronger with him in (and it is a fact). This season he told us he wanted to change to building up in a two rather than a three, sacrificing the greater defensive solidity to be more expressive, which is fair enough, but  he hasn’t been able to do that with Cash injured and not trusting Ned.

I still think he’d have had Carlos in and Konsa at right-back v Bayern, given the evidence from last season. (Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool H&A).

[Percy McCarthy]

What potential issues would we have if we played torres and mings as left sided defenders? I mean defensively we alreafy look a shamble could it really be that bad trying it?

That would be great if it worked. I love what Pau brings to our game, but IMO he needs a strong defensive partner. Same with Konsa. Fantastic one v one defender, and brilliant alongside Mings, but his partnership with Pau is weak. Only the Mings/Konsa partnership have so far proved over a extended period that they are strong enough to play with two traditionally progressive full-backs outside them, and even they were defensively stronger with Ashley Young playing conservatively.

For the record, I think Carlos/Pau would potentially be similarly porous, maybe even more so, were it not for the fact that they’ve nearly always got as good a defender as Konsa shutting down the right side.

It’s all about who compliments each other.