The Holte Suite

[ChicagoLion]

Playing devil's advocate here - but there is no getting away from the fact we are tens of millions behind our peers (not even the Man citys/Aresenal/Man utds) in terms of match-day revenue. So how do we increase the income with the current facilities, but also make it more accessible at different price points.

I would happily pay more for somewhere warm dry that I can get served food and drink without standing in a queue for an hour, and I think that there are quite a few like that.

What are the rules concerning how many season tickets we can sell?

[Nev]

I noticed the style and font of the advertising for the LG is almost identical to the Sky Sports autumn campaign. Fashionable? Coincidence? Or a deliberate come hither to a certain kind of market?

Rather like paying for the opportunity to buy tickets which is now the norm, paying for facilities that were part of the ticket price is probably the future. A common capitalist tactic to make people almost pay twice for something. Booking fees, handling, admin fees, they're all the same in an effort to raise money. As long as people will pay it, this will continue and in terms of following a football team or musical artist it's a monopoly and they know it. Like utilities and public transport.

And it's landed with one hell of a thud at Villa Park.

[London Villan]

Playing devil's advocate here - but there is no getting away from the fact we are tens of millions behind our peers (not even the Man citys/Aresenal/Man utds) in terms of match-day revenue. So how do we increase the income with the current facilities, but also make it more accessible at different price points.

I would happily pay more for somewhere warm dry that I can get served food and drink without standing in a queue for an hour, and I think that there are quite a few like that.

What are the rules concerning how many season tickets we can sell?

And that's the thing - lots of people will have a price point and want different things.

What would you be prepared to pay?

A pub by the ground - no seats crap beer. no food? £5
The new Warehouse thing is rumoured to be £20 per match - maybe a free beer? Seats, decent service.
Holte Suite - £60 unlimited foot and beer
Cheapest padded seat ticket with buffet food £100+
etc etc

[LeeB]

Playing devil's advocate here - but there is no getting away from the fact we are tens of millions behind our peers (not even the Man citys/Aresenal/Man utds) in terms of match-day revenue. So how do we increase the income with the current facilities, but also make it more accessible at different price points.

I would happily pay more for somewhere warm dry that I can get served food and drink without standing in a queue for an hour, and I think that there are quite a few like that.

What are the rules concerning how many season tickets we can sell?

And that's the thing - lots of people will have a price point and want different things.

What would you be prepared to pay?

A pub by the ground - no seats crap beer. no food? £5
The new Warehouse thing is rumoured to be £20 per match - maybe a free beer? Seats, decent service.
Holte Suite - £60 unlimited foot and beer
Cheapest padded seat ticket with buffet food £100+
etc etc

I want none of these things at the prices quoted because I can get a vast array of alternatives offering much more value about 2 miles away.

This is the thing.

And this approach doesn't consider that there is a yawning gap where me and others like me would buy a bite to eat and a pint, maybe turn up a little earlier to do so, if the facillities were available, and it really, really shouldn't be too difficult to tap that revenue stream along with increasing the corporate offers.

[chrisw1]

You'd think that is critical.  But they are bringing in layers of 'premium packages' available at different price points, so getting a wider range of people to spend more money.  Tbh I get the concept, but because the Wtoon and North aren't really fit for purpose they're squeezing the pips on areas many of us feel should be sacrosanct.

I know it won’t be popular to say it but I’ve never viewed the Holte Suite as sacrosanct, it was a conference room venue tagged on the back of the Holte that wasn’t much better than a downmarket mid range hotel venue. I absolutely get that the users of it feel shortchanged but it was the obvious place with the North/Witton being unsuitable and the Trinity Road full as Risso said, for putting a premium offering.

The Terrace View is an abomination however and that is the venue/approach people should be getting riled about. Oh and it can be laid firmly at Purslows door.

I think I’ve said it before if the club and Heck in particular are wanting to go down this avenue then be clear and open in your communications with the fans. As others have said padded seats are probably coming to the new Tunnel club in C3 and 4, probably P5 and 6 in the Witton Lane and the middle of the Upper Tier in the new North Stand. That and probably another 10-15 percent hike in season tickets next year means there’ll be plenty for us to moan about moving forward.

I tend to agree with you but a lot of people don't.  I think the fact the Holte Suit was located under the Holte has made it more emotive than it would have otherwise been.  It's never really been a space for everyone - out of 30k season ticket holders how many got to use it regularly - maybe 5-600?  It may have been there a long time, but I still don't think your average season ticket holder would expect the use of a private lounge as part of the deal. 

The Terrace View however was directly reducing facilities and space for every fan in the Upper Holte and I agree that is disgraceful.  If they take this further with premium seating - as I suspect they will - it will be unforgivable.

[chrisw1]

And this approach doesn't consider that there is a yawning gap where me and others like me would buy a bite to eat and a pint, maybe turn up a little earlier to do so, if the facillities were available, and it really, really shouldn't be too difficult to tap that revenue stream along with increasing the corporate offers.

And this is what so many of us find so infuriating.  They can't even be bothered to provide minimum levels of service to cater for this untapped demand.

[Chris Smith]

You'd think that is critical.  But they are bringing in layers of 'premium packages' available at different price points, so getting a wider range of people to spend more money.  Tbh I get the concept, but because the Wtoon and North aren't really fit for purpose they're squeezing the pips on areas many of us feel should be sacrosanct.

I know it won’t be popular to say it but I’ve never viewed the Holte Suite as sacrosanct, it was a conference room venue tagged on the back of the Holte that wasn’t much better than a downmarket mid range hotel venue. I absolutely get that the users of it feel shortchanged but it was the obvious place with the North/Witton being unsuitable and the Trinity Road full as Risso said, for putting a premium offering.

The Terrace View is an abomination however and that is the venue/approach people should be getting riled about. Oh and it can be laid firmly at Purslows door.

I think I’ve said it before if the club and Heck in particular are wanting to go down this avenue then be clear and open in your communications with the fans. As others have said padded seats are probably coming to the new Tunnel club in C3 and 4, probably P5 and 6 in the Witton Lane and the middle of the Upper Tier in the new North Stand. That and probably another 10-15 percent hike in season tickets next year means there’ll be plenty for us to moan about moving forward.

I tend to agree with you but a lot of people don't.  I think the fact the Holte Suit was located under the Holte has made it more emotive than it would have otherwise been.  It's never really been a space for everyone - out of 30k season ticket holders how many got to use it regularly - maybe 5-600?  It may have been there a long time, but I still don't think your average season ticket holder would expect the use of a private lounge as part of the deal. 

The Terrace View however was directly reducing facilities and space for every fan in the Upper Holte and I agree that is disgraceful.  If they take this further with premium seating - as I suspect they will - it will be unforgivable.

I don’t see the distinction, I think both are wrong but to follow your reasoning the Terrace View only impacts those in the Upper Holte.

The Holte Suite was really well used both before and after games. For a three o’clock kick off it was generally full by one then a queue would form and people would go in on a staggered basis as others left. No idea of capacity but over the course of a season thousands of people will have used it.

[pauliewalnuts]

Playing devil's advocate here - but there is no getting away from the fact we are tens of millions behind our peers (not even the Man citys/Aresenal/Man utds) in terms of match-day revenue. So how do we increase the income with the current facilities, but also make it more accessible at different price points.

I would happily pay more for somewhere warm dry that I can get served food and drink without standing in a queue for an hour, and I think that there are quite a few like that.

What are the rules concerning how many season tickets we can sell?

And that's the thing - lots of people will have a price point and want different things.

What would you be prepared to pay?

A pub by the ground - no seats crap beer. no food? £5
The new Warehouse thing is rumoured to be £20 per match - maybe a free beer? Seats, decent service.
Holte Suite - £60 unlimited foot and beer
Cheapest padded seat ticket with buffet food £100+
etc etc

I want none of these things at the prices quoted because I can get a vast array of alternatives offering much more value about 2 miles away.

This is the thing.

And this approach doesn't consider that there is a yawning gap where me and others like me would buy a bite to eat and a pint, maybe turn up a little earlier to do so, if the facillities were available, and it really, really shouldn't be too difficult to tap that revenue stream along with increasing the corporate offers.

Totally agree with this.

Given the options listed above, I'll opt to eat and drink in the city centre, where there are literally hundreds of places to go, at the majority of which you can get reasonably (compared to the LG) priced food, and several drinks, and then share an Uber amongst 3 or 4 of you to the ground.

It's a much more convincing option to spend your £70 than sitting in a canteen smelling of football ground chips.

However, if there were an option, I would not mind hanging back for a drink whilst waiting for the post match traffic to clear. I don't know why making things like that available is not part of the bigger picture in terms of improving transport to and from the ground - yes, there would still be tens of thousands of people all heading away from the ground, only not all at the same time.

Returning to the LG, looking at those photos, one thing I am surprised at, is what looks like a total lack of effort to create an environment where people will feel like their 70 quid has got them even a little bit of comfort.

"Slap some benches in, put some little flags and shirts up, stick some big tellies to keep the morons distracted watching earlier games, bob's your uncle".

If that's the best the finest commercial mind from the NBA can come up with, it's hugely underwhelming.

[LeeB]

Exactly.

It's so poor, A level Business Studies workshop standard.

[Clampy]

You'd think that is critical.  But they are bringing in layers of 'premium packages' available at different price points, so getting a wider range of people to spend more money.  Tbh I get the concept, but because the Wtoon and North aren't really fit for purpose they're squeezing the pips on areas many of us feel should be sacrosanct.

I know it won’t be popular to say it but I’ve never viewed the Holte Suite as sacrosanct, it was a conference room venue tagged on the back of the Holte that wasn’t much better than a downmarket mid range hotel venue. I absolutely get that the users of it feel shortchanged but it was the obvious place with the North/Witton being unsuitable and the Trinity Road full as Risso said, for putting a premium offering.

The Terrace View is an abomination however and that is the venue/approach people should be getting riled about. Oh and it can be laid firmly at Purslows door.

I think I’ve said it before if the club and Heck in particular are wanting to go down this avenue then be clear and open in your communications with the fans. As others have said padded seats are probably coming to the new Tunnel club in C3 and 4, probably P5 and 6 in the Witton Lane and the middle of the Upper Tier in the new North Stand. That and probably another 10-15 percent hike in season tickets next year means there’ll be plenty for us to moan about moving forward.

I tend to agree with you but a lot of people don't.  I think the fact the Holte Suit was located under the Holte has made it more emotive than it would have otherwise been.  It's never really been a space for everyone - out of 30k season ticket holders how many got to use it regularly - maybe 5-600?  It may have been there a long time, but I still don't think your average season ticket holder would expect the use of a private lounge as part of the deal. 

The Terrace View however was directly reducing facilities and space for every fan in the Upper Holte and I agree that is disgraceful.  If they take this further with premium seating - as I suspect they will - it will be unforgivable.

I don’t see the distinction, I think both are wrong but to follow your reasoning the Terrace View only impacts those in the Upper Holte.

The Holte Suite was really well used both before and after games. For a three o’clock kick off it was generally full by one then a queue would form and people would go in on a staggered basis as others left. No idea of capacity but over the course of a season thousands of people will have used it.

I might be wrong about this but there are one or two people who don't seem to concerned about the demise of the old Holte Suite, possibly because they didn't use it. Like Chris said, it was very popular before the game (the queue to get in when it was full was quite lengthy). They must have made a fortune on a match day but however much it was, it wasn't enough. It's shocking and very sad to see what they've done to it.

[London Villan]

Again - playing devil's advocate as I think how we are going about things is very wrong - but is there another "big" club that has a facility like the Holte Suite that is free for fans?

You can imagine Heck (with a brief to increase revenue) walking around and finding out it was free and being puzzled as to why.

Didn't there used to be a charge years ago too??

[Gareth]

Playing devil's advocate here - but there is no getting away from the fact we are tens of millions behind our peers (not even the Man citys/Aresenal/Man utds) in terms of match-day revenue. So how do we increase the income with the current facilities, but also make it more accessible at different price points.

Taking devils advocate further, we also appear to be tens of millions behind our peers in terms of shirt sponsor, kit deal….so what are they doing to scratch those issues alongside the desperation to fleece fans under the cover of being ‘pleased to announce’

They see us as the easy wins….you can definitely see that in 5 years time we’ll have a team properly competing for trophies but thousands of the fans who were there through the garbage years will be watching at home whilst the glory hunters fill the ground

[chrisw1]

The distinction I make is because is that the Holte Suite is a lounge outside the stands used by a tiny minority of ST holders.  I accept it's been there for a long time and some people enjoyed it, I just think this sort of space is fairer game for a club trying to increase revenue.  Equally, I doubt many top clubs have a dedicated lounge included in a standard season ticket price.  And yes, as a HE ST holder who generally gets to the ground early I have used it.

The Terrace View was halving the space and facilities within the Holte concourse itself and bringing Corporate into the Holte End stand.  It feels like a pre-cursor to having dedicated seating to complement it in the future. 

Ultimately one is repurposing an externally accessed space that was in theory open to all, the other is fundamentally changing the dynamic of our main supporter terrace.  Personally, I think there's a huge distinction between the two.

[London Villan]

Agree 100% - we are a million miles away on loads of things:

Shirt manufacturers
Shirt sponsors and 2nd tier sponsors
Using the website to sort tickets
Regular fan facilities - and looking after the loyal ones

[chrisw1]

I would add that if they upgraded the concourses to a more acceptable standard as I have advocated many times, there would be less need for a space like the Holte suite.  Note I said less not none.  I realise that for some it was an important space for their match day experience.