Should Pau Torres and Tyrone Mings both start?

[AV82EC]

The common attacking shape amongst the top sides now is 325, with a wide back 3 that is closer to 1CB and 2FBs than the more traditional 3 CBs. The 2 are then a double pivot but generally 1 is a more defensive option who will stay quite deep and be the 4th defender against the counter-attack whilst the other steps up and dictates play and sets the ponit and tempo of the attack.

Luiz works perfectly in that 2nd role because he's fantastic at both being the quarterback and changing the point of the attack but also at drifting into space around the box and timing runs to break in and get chances on goal. Tielemans works in both positions so long as we're dominating possession and Kamara is exceptional at the more defensive role, I can see us playing every combination of 2 from 3 fairly regularly.

For the 5 I think we set up in a few different ways last year but the 2 most common were:

Starting in a 442 Where Moreno pushed up and Cash/Young joined the 3, JJ and McGinn moved in from the wings to fill the gaps between FB and CB (half-space is the common term for this amongst the tactical nerds) and Bailey drifted out wide on the right.
or
Starting in more of a 451 Where McGinn was in the 2 and Bailey played on the right, in this the big difference was Buendia drifted into the right side half-space from a more central position.

When Digne played we mixed it up during the game a bit more because we sometimes pushed him up and other times we pushed Cash up but neither of them really worked.

In pre-season I think Emery has worked hard on getting Cash to be more productive if he pushes into that and to encourage it he's been using Torres on the left to remove any doubt of who would be the more attacking full back. Diaby also plays a big part because he can fill 4 of the 5 spots at any point so we're a lot more fluid in our shape.

Are you an optician Paul?

No idea what happened there, sometimes the editor does weird things if you cut and paste I think.

Ha ha no worries though it has reminded me
I need a Contact Lens check up.

[paul_e]

The common attacking shape amongst the top sides now is 325, with a wide back 3 that is closer to 1CB and 2FBs than the more traditional 3 CBs. The 2 are then a double pivot but generally 1 is a more defensive option who will stay quite deep and be the 4th defender against the counter-attack whilst the other steps up and dictates play and sets the ponit and tempo of the attack.

Luiz works perfectly in that 2nd role because he's fantastic at both being the quarterback and changing the point of the attack but also at drifting into space around the box and timing runs to break in and get chances on goal. Tielemans works in both positions so long as we're dominating possession and Kamara is exceptional at the more defensive role, I can see us playing every combination of 2 from 3 fairly regularly.

For the 5 I think we set up in a few different ways last year but the 2 most common were:

Starting in a 442 Where Moreno pushed up and Cash/Young joined the 3, JJ and McGinn moved in from the wings to fill the gaps between FB and CB (half-space is the common term for this amongst the tactical nerds) and Bailey drifted out wide on the right.
or
Starting in more of a 451 Where McGinn was in the 2 and Bailey played on the right, in this the big difference was Buendia drifted into the right side half-space from a more central position.

When Digne played we mixed it up during the game a bit more because we sometimes pushed him up and other times we pushed Cash up but neither of them really worked.

In pre-season I think Emery has worked hard on getting Cash to be more productive if he pushes into that and to encourage it he's been using Torres on the left to remove any doubt of who would be the more attacking full back. Diaby also plays a big part because he can fill 4 of the 5 spots at any point so we're a lot more fluid in our shape.

Are you an optician Paul?

No idea what happened there, sometimes the editor does weird things if you cut and paste I think.

In full site mode, select text then click on the "remove formatting button" (the one with two letter A's on it).

I know, I normally check but I forgot today.

[VillaTim]

Torres isn't ready for the blood & Thunder of the EPL just yet.
Be a huge risk starting him on Saturday

[Bad English]

The common attacking shape amongst the top sides now is 325, with a wide back 3 that is closer to 1CB and 2FBs than the more traditional 3 CBs. The 2 are then a double pivot but generally 1 is a more defensive option who will stay quite deep and be the 4th defender against the counter-attack whilst the other steps up and dictates play and sets the ponit and tempo of the attack.

Luiz works perfectly in that 2nd role because he's fantastic at both being the quarterback and changing the point of the attack but also at drifting into space around the box and timing runs to break in and get chances on goal. Tielemans works in both positions so long as we're dominating possession and Kamara is exceptional at the more defensive role, I can see us playing every combination of 2 from 3 fairly regularly.

For the 5 I think we set up in a few different ways last year but the 2 most common were:

Starting in a 442 Where Moreno pushed up and Cash/Young joined the 3, JJ and McGinn moved in from the wings to fill the gaps between FB and CB (half-space is the common term for this amongst the tactical nerds) and Bailey drifted out wide on the right.
or
Starting in more of a 451 Where McGinn was in the 2 and Bailey played on the right, in this the big difference was Buendia drifted into the right side half-space from a more central position.

When Digne played we mixed it up during the game a bit more because we sometimes pushed him up and other times we pushed Cash up but neither of them really worked.

In pre-season I think Emery has worked hard on getting Cash to be more productive if he pushes into that and to encourage it he's been using Torres on the left to remove any doubt of who would be the more attacking full back. Diaby also plays a big part because he can fill 4 of the 5 spots at any point so we're a lot more fluid in our shape.

Are you an optician Paul?

No idea what happened there, sometimes the editor does weird things if you cut and paste I think.

In full site mode, select text then click on the "remove formatting button" (the one with two letter A's on it).

I know, I normally check but I forgot today.

Yeah! Don't mention it! You're alright. It was nothing. Maybe next time don't forget so I don't waste my time trying to be helpful.

[paul_e]

The common attacking shape amongst the top sides now is 325, with a wide back 3 that is closer to 1CB and 2FBs than the more traditional 3 CBs. The 2 are then a double pivot but generally 1 is a more defensive option who will stay quite deep and be the 4th defender against the counter-attack whilst the other steps up and dictates play and sets the ponit and tempo of the attack.

Luiz works perfectly in that 2nd role because he's fantastic at both being the quarterback and changing the point of the attack but also at drifting into space around the box and timing runs to break in and get chances on goal. Tielemans works in both positions so long as we're dominating possession and Kamara is exceptional at the more defensive role, I can see us playing every combination of 2 from 3 fairly regularly.

For the 5 I think we set up in a few different ways last year but the 2 most common were:

Starting in a 442 Where Moreno pushed up and Cash/Young joined the 3, JJ and McGinn moved in from the wings to fill the gaps between FB and CB (half-space is the common term for this amongst the tactical nerds) and Bailey drifted out wide on the right.
or
Starting in more of a 451 Where McGinn was in the 2 and Bailey played on the right, in this the big difference was Buendia drifted into the right side half-space from a more central position.

When Digne played we mixed it up during the game a bit more because we sometimes pushed him up and other times we pushed Cash up but neither of them really worked.

In pre-season I think Emery has worked hard on getting Cash to be more productive if he pushes into that and to encourage it he's been using Torres on the left to remove any doubt of who would be the more attacking full back. Diaby also plays a big part because he can fill 4 of the 5 spots at any point so we're a lot more fluid in our shape.

Are you an optician Paul?

No idea what happened there, sometimes the editor does weird things if you cut and paste I think.

In full site mode, select text then click on the "remove formatting button" (the one with two letter A's on it).

I know, I normally check but I forgot today.

Yeah! Don't mention it! You're alright. It was nothing. Maybe next time don't forget so I don't waste my time trying to be helpful.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a knob and thank you for offering a solution.

[Monty]

Put both, not because I think they should automatically be first choice, but because they absolutely can play together.

People seem to suffer logic deficiency whenever left-footers are involved. Why can right-footed players step in at left back or the left side of central defence, but as soon as a leftie's proposed for it it becomes all sinister?

[paul_e]

Put both, not because I think they should automatically be first choice, but because they absolutely can play together.

People seem to suffer logic deficiency whenever left-footers are involved. Why can right-footed players step in at left back or the left side of central defence, but as soon as a leftie's proposed for it it becomes all sinister?

Yep, exactly, this has been my point all along against this thread.

[chrisw1]

Put both, not because I think they should automatically be first choice, but because they absolutely can play together.

People seem to suffer logic deficiency whenever left-footers are involved. Why can right-footed players step in at left back or the left side of central defence, but as soon as a leftie's proposed for it it becomes all sinister?

Yep, exactly, this has been my point all along against this thread.

Well they haven't played once together as a centre back partnership in pre-season, so maybe Emery isn't convinced yet?

I'd guess Torres will play left back at Newcastle, but if not he has to be on the bench surely?

[paul_e]

Put both, not because I think they should automatically be first choice, but because they absolutely can play together.

People seem to suffer logic deficiency whenever left-footers are involved. Why can right-footed players step in at left back or the left side of central defence, but as soon as a leftie's proposed for it it becomes all sinister?

Yep, exactly, this has been my point all along against this thread.

Well they haven't played once together as a centre back partnership in pre-season, so maybe Emery isn't convinced yet?

I'd guess Torres will play left back at Newcastle, but if not he has to be on the bench surely?

A fair point if the thread specified playing together as 'classic' centre backs, which it doesn't.

[brontebilly]

Put both, not because I think they should automatically be first choice, but because they absolutely can play together.

People seem to suffer logic deficiency whenever left-footers are involved. Why can right-footed players step in at left back or the left side of central defence, but as soon as a leftie's proposed for it it becomes all sinister?

Tyrone Mings is completely one sided. He won't be able to play RCB, opposition presses him onto his right foot on the ball and we are in for a world of pain. In any case, Konsa and Mings should be (and will be) first choice to start the season. Let's see how Torres does when he gets opportunities but I think he will find it difficult to break in.

[chrisw1]

Put both, not because I think they should automatically be first choice, but because they absolutely can play together.

People seem to suffer logic deficiency whenever left-footers are involved. Why can right-footed players step in at left back or the left side of central defence, but as soon as a leftie's proposed for it it becomes all sinister?

Yep, exactly, this has been my point all along against this thread.

Well they haven't played once together as a centre back partnership in pre-season, so maybe Emery isn't convinced yet?

I'd guess Torres will play left back at Newcastle, but if not he has to be on the bench surely?

A fair point if the thread specified playing together as 'classic' centre backs, which it doesn't.

But the thrust of Monty's post and your reply is clearly that one of them should be able to play on the right even though they are left footed, not that one of them should play left back.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

It's just a matter of time before we go three at the back. Torres on the left, Mings in the middle and Konsa on the right. Unai will at some point need to justify the purchase of Torres and his best position is on the left. To move him to the right would take so much away from his strengths. As Bronte said, Mings as a two can only play on the left. He can play in the middle of a three though.

Once we get Moreno back I think we'll look a lot more fluid. Cash on the right overlapping also works but he'll need to work on his crossing. I still expect us to bring in another right back. It will be interesting to see the characteristics of the player when we do. My guess is he'll be more of a wing back.

[brontebilly]

It's just a matter of time before we go three at the back. Torres on the left, Mings in the middle and Konsa on the right. Unai will at some point need to justify the purchase of Torres and his best position is on the left. To move him to the right would take so much away from his strengths. As Bronte said, Mings as a two can only play on the left. He can play in the middle of a three though.

Once we get Moreno back I think we'll look a lot more fluid. Cash on the right overlapping also works but he'll need to work on his crossing. I still expect us to bring in another right back. It will be interesting to see the characteristics of the player when we do. My guess is he'll be more of a wing back.

When Mings played in the centre of a three a few seasons back, he was awful. It's not just that he isn't comfortable with the ball at his right foot, he isn't comfortable even turning onto his right side. From memory, Konsa was all over the place in a 3 as a RCB and dreadful at RB. I just hope we don't spend weeks messing around with our shape at the back to accommodate Torres.

Towards the end of last season, Emery had nailed out defensive setup with Konsa and Mings playing high with Martinez sweeping behind them, Moreno bombing on. Kamara and Luiz goal side of the ball sitting in front with Luiz given more licence to get forward at times. Swap individuals out for sure but let's keep that shape.

[john e]

I don’t think we’ll go three at the back long term because with time it will prove it doesn’t work with the players we have

What we also have to remember is we all think the defence is rocksolid especially with the amount of clean sheets we kept last season
But Emi Martínez made the second most saves in the premiership

We kept a lot of clean sheets because of the goalkeeper not the defence
A different goalkeeper and we Would have finished bottom half

[brontebilly]

I don’t think we’ll go three at the back long term because with time it will prove it doesn’t work with the players we have

What we also have to remember is we all think the defence is rocksolid especially with the amount of clean sheets we kept last season
But Emi Martínez made the second most saves in the premiership

We kept a lot of clean sheets because of the goalkeeper not the defence
A different goalkeeper and we Would have finished bottom half

To be fair John I thought Mings was brilliant after Emery came in. He carried Konsa for a lot of that time like at Everton for example. Improved out of all recognition with the ball and became a lot more decisive without it especially at set piece time. If Torres is going to replace all that he has his work cut out.