Villa 2 Tottenham 1 post-match thread

[markeeeebeeee2005]

Did Martinez get to the ball before Kane threw himself over?

[ChicagoLion]

Did Martinez get to the ball before Kane threw himself over?

It looked like it, and Kane deliberately ran into him and dived.

[markeeeebeeee2005]

When I saw the game in real time and the immediate replays it looked like Martinez got the ball. But then the VAR angle wasn’t great and couldn’t really tell. I’d like to see those original clips again but can’t find them.

[Steve67]

Did Martinez get to the ball before Kane threw himself over?

I don't think he did.  Kane invited the challenge and the referee fell for it once he saw the monitor.  The question is, was this a clear and obvious error?  The referee was so inept that VAR felt it had to step in?

[Baldy]

Did Martinez get to the ball before Kane threw himself over?

Referee thought so, he originally gave a corner.

[The Edge]

Kane’s a fucking cheat but he plays for Spurs and England so he’s the darling of the media. And while I’m being petty, I hate the way he speaks - he sounds like he’s wearing someone else’s teeth. Looking back at this season, one of the (many) highlights for me has been doing the double over these arrogant Hertfordshire show ponies.

Just been watching replays of it again and he's on the way down before he even makes contact with Martinez.  He also initiates that contact and from a couple of angles it looks like Martinez gets a touch on the ball.

And just to confirm his media darling England poster boy status MOTD totally glossed over the penalty by not even mentioning it but that's obvious I suppose as Lineker once held that exact same unofficial title. It's sickening to watch. That joke of a penalty could ultimately decide who gets into the Europa league. And while I'm having a rant I must mention two of the worst refereeing decisions I've ever seen at Villa Park. The awarding of a foul to them when a player slipped and fell over with no Villa player anywhere near him and the offside decision against Ollie which they allowed them to take two yards in our half!! The officials were clearly out of their depth today. And the blatant offsides where the lino didn't flag? Ridiculous. They shouldn't be anywhere near officiating top flight football.

[markeeeebeeee2005]

My Spurs supporting friend’s take is that Kane is cute and it was a definite pen and our free kick was very soft and the keeper should have saved it.

Long and short of it, we handed them their arses!

[eamonn]

Still, at least it wasn't as bad as Vertonghen stripping Helenius of his shorts.

[Brend'Watkins]

Does anyone know when was the last time we did the double over Tottenham?

Looks like we did it in 94-95 (when we were shit) and 95-96 (when we were good). So actually 4 wins in a row. Yes I did have to look it up!

Also, we went 14 games unbeaten against them in the early to mid nineties!

Thanks Clark. I had mid 90s in my head but wasn’t sure. Our record against Spurs over the last 25 years is pretty abysmal, it’s abysmal against ManU too but even if we don’t manage some form of Europe competition we have at least addressed the issue of our form v these two thanks to Emery. Long may it continue.

[Paul.S]

Kane’s a fucking cheat but he plays for Spurs and England so he’s the darling of the media. And while I’m being petty, I hate the way he speaks - he sounds like he’s wearing someone else’s teeth. Looking back at this season, one of the (many) highlights for me has been doing the double over these arrogant Hertfordshire show ponies.

Just been watching replays of it again and he's on the way down before he even makes contact with Martinez.  He also initiates that contact and from a couple of angles it looks like Martinez gets a touch on the ball.

The referee gave a corner so he must’ve seen a touch from Martinez. It seems like the attempts to clamp down on diving doesn’t apply to the penalty box. Outside the box there is a clear change where free kicks won’t be given as easily as last season but inside they’ll give a penalty for “contact.” The ridiculous handball rule appears to change game by game causing even more confusion. The ref yesterday allowed consistent fouling early on by Spurs and then the first dubious foul against hero Kane and the card was out. Man City do exactly the same and get away with it so allegations of favouritism appear.
The ref yesterday appeared a bit confused and started giving them free kicks for shoulder to shoulder challenges, the one not long after the penalty against McGinn was a good example. I know we all become one eyed during a game but the inconsistency yesterday was blatantly obvious. Watching European football shows that we have some very poor referee’s compared to other countries. VAR may have helped with offsides but the rest of it is a total mess and we still get decisions that are questionable to say the least. Keep goal line technology and VAR for offsides but get rid for the rest or make the ref explain the decisions along with recordings of the discussion with VAR officials after the game.

[eamonn]

We lost the game on xG despite Spurs scoring a world-record 0.0 xG at half-time. Gutted.

[Mister E]

Kane ... sounds like he’s wearing someone else’s teeth.

Brilliant - I'm now clearing up the coffee I just spurted out of my mouth when I read that.

[Smithy]

Did Martinez get to the ball before Kane threw himself over?

Referee thought so, he originally gave a corner.

And I think that's why VAR called him over; if the ref had said "goal kick, just a coming together, no pen" I'm not sure he would have been called over for a clear and obvious error.  But once the VAR could see Kane chip it over Emi, and there was no obvious touch from the keeper, the ref's version of the events are demonstrably wrong and could be construed as an obvious error.  Especially as they're talking all the time, so if the ref at any point says "I gave a corner because the keeper got a clear touch" then I don't see how VAR don't send him to the monitor?

I thought it was a pen, and I also thought the Watkins one should have been a pen, though it was slightly less obvious as Watkins didn't touch the ball before being clattered.

[Mister E]

Did Martinez get to the ball before Kane threw himself over?

The question is, was this a clear and obvious error? 

Exactly  - it clearly wasn't clear and obvious, given the time they took. Was Kane even onside in the build up?!
This is where VAR has over-reached its original purpose, IMHO. The ref's decision to award a corner was not an obvious error (FWIW, when I saw it in real time from the Holte it seemed that Martinez had tipped for a corner before Kane went over him).

[Smithy]

We lost the game on xG despite Spurs scoring a world-record 0.0 xG at half-time. Gutted.

We didn't. It was 1.44 vs 1.20 :-)