Question for more mature Villans re: 1982

[Villan82]

It's all before my time but it has always grated on me, as a stats man, people treat our early 1980s successes as a sort of bolt out of the blue. From 1975 we were clearly on an upward trajectory winning two league cups and finishing 4th in the league. 1975-1983 saw us pick up two league cups, a league title, a European Cup and a European Super Cup. I always feel that our achievements in the 70s and 80s are overlooked compared to say Derby and Forest.

[Villan For Life]

It was different back then. Liverpool dominated but lots of teams did well through good coaching. When we won the league in 81, Ipswich were 2nd and West Brom 4th. The following year Watford were 2nd. The year after that, Southampton were 2nd and QPR 5th, etc etc.

Cheers for that, gives me perspective. I had no idea any of those teams got to those sort of heights. So West Brom were actually decent? Fuck. I mean I grew up around them but I just naturally tuned them out. Going to have to Google their history out of curiosity and then have a wash.

We beat West Brom at home in April 1981, there were probably 4 games remainingin the season.They matched us that night and probably deserved a point from the game but for one of my favourite Villa Park goals from Peter Withe after a terrible back pass from Brendan Batson. Up to then Albion were still in with a mathematical change of winning the league. It would have taken a dramatic loss of form from us and Ipswich but it was still possible.

They had a good side then but as always good overcomes evil!

Did I think we could win the European Cup? No, not until we got to the final but I had the unshaken belief of a 16 year old that the Villa wouldn’t let me down in the final. Oh for that optimism!

[edgysatsuma89]

Thanks for taking the time to properly answer my question. I've found them genuinely really interesting although I leave with the sense I really fucking missed out. I don't just mean witnessing us winning a European Cup, even if that didn't happen it just seemed like a great time to be a fan of a lot of football clubs (barring the obvious hooliganism issues). The introduction of state owned clubs has really tested my love of the game and I can easily see myself in a decade really struggling to care.

[dave.woodhall]

It was different back then. Liverpool dominated but lots of teams did well through good coaching. When we won the league in 81, Ipswich were 2nd and West Brom 4th. The following year Watford were 2nd. The year after that, Southampton were 2nd and QPR 5th, etc etc.

Cheers for that, gives me perspective. I had no idea any of those teams got to those sort of heights. So West Brom were actually decent? Fuck. I mean I grew up around them but I just naturally tuned them out. Going to have to Google their history out of curiosity and then have a wash.

They'd have won the league in 1979 if it hadn't snowed in the winter.

[JD]

I honestly thought we had blown our best chance of winning the league with the 1976-77 team who on their day were unplayable.
Once Andy Gray left and HWWOW retired I never thought we would win the league.
After we did win the league I thought we could do well in the European Cup as Liverpool and Forest were both winning it. Didn't think we would go all the way and win it though, until we got to the semi final when I thought we had a chance. Still thought Bayern would be too strong in the final but fate was on our side.

[dave shelley]

One of the better things of the modern age we live in is the fact that those times have been recorded for posterity on film and shows just how good the Villa were during the Saunders era.  I also thought we'd missed the bus with that 76/77 side, some of the best football I've ever seen any Villa side play.  Liverpool 5-1 was the best forty-five minutes I've ever seen, privileged is the word.  So sad not to mention annoying, that that was one that should have been recorded on film but at least I was there.

There is also the added film bonus of the Renaissance that culminated in Rotterdam which is the time spent in the third division for which we will be forever indebted to Vic Crowd RIP et al.  The shit heaps we stood on following around the country visiting ramshackle old grounds with pitches no better than Perry Hall park.  With the benefit of hindsight, great days.  I am so glad that this was my time and I hope with all sincerity that for those of you that weren't around to witness it that your turn is coming.

[stubbsyandy]

Football was more of an adventure then, the twelve years leading to the European Cup win were unreal in every way except it was real!
I agree, we never considered ourselves capable of winning it just took each game as it came enjoying the journey…fantastic!
Yes that 77 team were one of the most exciting Villa sides, but so too the 75. The league wining side was not always pretty but was a great journey and to be able to say we were champions of England and Europe in my lifetime is something I’ll always be grateful for.
I love this club.

[Chris Smith]

Football was more of an adventure then, the twelve years leading to the European Cup win were unreal in every way except it was real!
I agree, we never considered ourselves capable of winning it just took each game as it came enjoying the journey…fantastic!
Yes that 77 team were one of the most exciting Villa sides, but so too the 75. The league wining side was not always pretty but was a great journey and to be able to say we were champions of England and Europe in my lifetime is something I’ll always be grateful for.
I love this club.

I think that’s key, 1982 was the culmination of a journey that began in division 3. We just kept building and improving with promotions and league cups to sustain us. I remember as the league winning season progressed we started singing “win the league, win the league” at away games and Saunders kept reminding players, fans and pundits just how good we were.

[Sunny Villa]

To be fair , I was 21 it was just an adventure to go and watch the Villa abroad
We had know real idea apart from the obvious who were decent and their players we had to rely on the press and the Villa times to identify who they were .

I agree other than Valur we were the underdogs .
Travelling to East Germany ,Belgium and Holland was an amazing experience  for a young kid.

It's a cliche but we were just enjoying the ride then we found ourselves in the semi and  the country or for the most part ..really got behind us . It was very odd.

I didn't realise what such a tremendous achievement it was .   
It was a laugh though.

[Dick Edwards]

Not sure if this deserves a thread but who cares.

How far away did winning the European Cup seem in the seasons leading up to it?

I ask because it feels all but impossible now. Can't say impossible but as close to that as you can get. Did it feel like that in the late 70s before things turned round?

I hope it did because then it will make me think one day we could see it again.

Ten years before May 1982 we were in the Third Division. The journey over those ten years was meteoric - two promotions, two League Cup Final victories, some exciting, free flowing football with some memorable victories against top sides (1976 -77 in particular) and there was a clear sense that Ron Saunders was building something special.

The year before we won the league I felt we had a very good defence and well balanced midfield but lacked strikers of the necessary quality to take us forward further. We had a tantalising FA Cup run in 1980 which ended cruelly in the last minute at the quarter final stage away at West Ham. I was gutted as I really thought we had a chance that year - West Ham went on to beat a second division team in the Final. Then a young Gary Shaw developed into the real deal and almost simultaneously the truly inspired signing of Peter Withe was made. Those two, more than anyone else transformed us into serious contenders against any opponent.

The first step was to win the League, and I really started to believe when we won away at Goodison Park. We also beat a fantastic Liverpool team in a memorable game at Villa Park and we were on a roll. Barring the slip up at home to Ipswich near the end of the season the team had become serious, shared a winning mentality, had the ability to bounce back from any adversity and it was this belief that took us to the title.

The European Cup was just an extension of winning the League title for me. English club teams were dominant in Europe at the time and I don't recall fearing anyone en route to the Final, even Bayern. As someone else has said, the European Cup wasn't the be all and end all at the time. I think most of us of that vintage would have been dreaming more of an FA Cup Final success than the European Cup. The FA Cup really was, and remains the holy grail for us old timers.

As to whether it could happen again, you have to realise that money was not the necessary God then that it is now. And crucially there was no Bosman ruling then so if you developed home grown talent and had a manager long term who had a plan you could build a team slowly that could eventually compete at the very top. Nowadays we would probably have had the likes of Sid Cowans and Gary Shaw taken from us by the likes of Liverpool or Manchester United in the seasons before we went on to win the European Cup.

If we are to ever compete again at such a level we are going to need an inspirational manager/coach who is in it for the long term, a player recruitment policy and wealthy and ambitious owners who are prepared to back such a coach in the transfer market, fans who can consider the bigger picture and remain patient during hiccups and times of adversity, and players who are committed to the club and who won't clear off to the highest bidder as soon as they start to look like top level talent.

Battling all the evils of today's game, Leicester achieved a football miracle when they won the league title in 2016. We can do something similar only if we all believe - the manager, the owners, the players and the fans.

[dcdavecollett]

Good post, Dick, especially the point you make over the implications for team-building under the Bosman ruling.

I do remember both Crowe and Saunders having a vision of Villa being a big enough club to challenge for European football. Their problem was in sloughing off the skin of failure that we'd become used to for decades. For instance, I don't think anyone felt serious about us winning the league in 1981 until we beat Liverpool and then there seemed to be a shift in how seriously we believed in ourselves.

To an extent, we're in the same position now.

[Rory]

It was different back then. Liverpool dominated but lots of teams did well through good coaching. When we won the league in 81, Ipswich were 2nd and West Brom 4th. The following year Watford were 2nd. The year after that, Southampton were 2nd and QPR 5th, etc etc.

Cheers for that, gives me perspective. I had no idea any of those teams got to those sort of heights. So West Brom were actually decent? Fuck. I mean I grew up around them but I just naturally tuned them out. Going to have to Google their history out of curiosity and then have a wash.

I was bought a little tankard for Christmas 1999 that had all of the League, FA Cup & League Cup winners & runners-up, up to that point.

Even as a child, I could see when football was poisoned. It's not even to do with Villa, it's to do with competition. I'd read those details in bed and see variety.

I did (very sadly) go on work out the number of different trophy winners per decade of English football, and it goes over a fucking cliff after 1995.

I never watch PL unless it's Villa, and I never ever watch CL. But I love watching a good Championship, League 1 or League 2 match. The games are still actually competitive; there isn't the sense of a foregone conclusion. The players and the fans are still invested.

'Top-level' football is nothing but a business.

[Rory]

Not sure if this deserves a thread but who cares.

How far away did winning the European Cup seem in the seasons leading up to it?

I ask because it feels all but impossible now. Can't say impossible but as close to that as you can get. Did it feel like that in the late 70s before things turned round?

I hope it did because then it will make me think one day we could see it again.

Ten years before May 1982 we were in the Third Division. The journey over those ten years was meteoric - two promotions, two League Cup Final victories, some exciting, free flowing football with some memorable victories against top sides (1976 -77 in particular) and there was a clear sense that Ron Saunders was building something special.

The year before we won the league I felt we had a very good defence and well balanced midfield but lacked strikers of the necessary quality to take us forward further. We had a tantalising FA Cup run in 1980 which ended cruelly in the last minute at the quarter final stage away at West Ham. I was gutted as I really thought we had a chance that year - West Ham went on to beat a second division team in the Final. Then a young Gary Shaw developed into the real deal and almost simultaneously the truly inspired signing of Peter Withe was made. Those two, more than anyone else transformed us into serious contenders against any opponent.

The first step was to win the League, and I really started to believe when we won away at Goodison Park. We also beat a fantastic Liverpool team in a memorable game at Villa Park and we were on a roll. Barring the slip up at home to Ipswich near the end of the season the team had become serious, shared a winning mentality, had the ability to bounce back from any adversity and it was this belief that took us to the title.

The European Cup was just an extension of winning the League title for me. English club teams were dominant in Europe at the time and I don't recall fearing anyone en route to the Final, even Bayern. As someone else has said, the European Cup wasn't the be all and end all at the time. I think most of us of that vintage would have been dreaming more of an FA Cup Final success than the European Cup. The FA Cup really was, and remains the holy grail for us old timers.

As to whether it could happen again, you have to realise that money was not the necessary God then that it is now. And crucially there was no Bosman ruling then so if you developed home grown talent and had a manager long term who had a plan you could build a team slowly that could eventually compete at the very top. Nowadays we would probably have had the likes of Sid Cowans and Gary Shaw taken from us by the likes of Liverpool or Manchester United in the seasons before we went on to win the European Cup.

If we are to ever compete again at such a level we are going to need an inspirational manager/coach who is in it for the long term, a player recruitment policy and wealthy and ambitious owners who are prepared to back such a coach in the transfer market, fans who can consider the bigger picture and remain patient during hiccups and times of adversity, and players who are committed to the club and who won't clear off to the highest bidder as soon as they start to look like top level talent.

Battling all the evils of today's game, Leicester achieved a football miracle when they won the league title in 2016. We can do something similar only if we all believe - the manager, the owners, the players and the fans.

Great post, Dick.

[Godfrey Brian]

Excellent post DE. I'm always very grateful that I am part of  one of the golden generations of Villa fans. We cut our teeth on some awful times in the second division, but that was fine because we were  young and enthusiastic , knew no better and going to the match was always a great adventure. Then we experienced growth and success in the Division three days as teenagers when it felt like we already ruled the world! Then the sides of the mid to late seventies and the Villa following made the club a very special one which felt like it was going somewhere.  That said, I didn't have any certainty about winning the league until we beat Middlesbrough the week before we played Arsenal- everything seemed to come together that week and I felt it would continue at Highbury. Walking away from Highbury the following week I thought I'd experienced my greatest Villa high. Throughout the following season I didn't think we would win the European Cup but that we may surprise a few teams in one off games. I went to the final expecting a gutsy underdog performance but expecting to be beaten and determined to enjoy the trip whatever. I must be what they call a 'late adopter' because I only allowed myself to believe we would win it with about ten minutes to go and crossed fingers! Having inflicted less successful Villa times on my own children for three decades I still tell them to believe in the seemingly impossible with this club- it occasionally happens!

[dave shelley]

I genuinely didn't believe we'd win the league right up until we met Arsenal on that Saturday and nothing in that first twenty-five minutes or so convinced me I was wrong.  I didn't even want to go to the match, it was my long-time mate and Villa travelling companion that convinced me to go on the Friday for which I shall be eternally grateful.  I think my negativity stemmed from the fact that Ipswich had that game in hand and the other fact that to balls it up would be such a Villa thing to do.

Me and my mate were also work colleagues and he was on nights and he came down to see me on the Friday lunch time to see what we were doing and I will never forget the sentence he said that convinced me to go, he said 'C'mon Chap, we've gotta go, think of all the years and the shit holes we've been to and all the shit football we've seen, we can't not go now when it's within touching distance'.  That did it for me, the rest as they say is history.  I've posted before that I attach more importance to that achievement than that of Rotterdam.

At almost seventy-four years of age, I love this club as much now as I did when I was ten.