Unai Emery

[Chris Smith]

I think it is more a structual problem - then personale to be honest.

As stupid as it sounds - we defended quite well until we let in the 4 goals :-).  I think we just couldnt control the game or play through there press - I think thats were we miss luiz - and when we go direct, we're not cute enough for a decent defence. 

I saw an analysis in The Athletic on the build up for their second. It showed that it was a turnover caused by Watkins trying to link up with Duran and losing possession which left us exposed to their quick transition. Prior to that we’d been set up to specifically counter that threat.The only reason they were both on at the same time was due to trying to protect Rogers. That was the  74th minute and although in the end they won comfortably that was the pivotal goal.

[Monty]

I just think our style isn't very, to borrow an overused word, antifragile - we have these very delicate systems that either work or really, really don't work. The fact they do work so often is kind of amazing, but when it fails it often fails quite hard.

[Villan82]

This time last year I wouldn't have swapped our midfield with any other. Kamara and Luiz as the double pivot and the likes of McGinn, Bailey, Diaby, Tielemens and even Zaniolo occupying the more creative/attacking midfield positions (some of them in rotation).

This season the midfield hasn't properly got going. It's a strange one as on paper we have a stronger squad.

[aj2k77]

Does anyone have the stats on what Emery's sides conceded on average at Valencia, Sevilla and Villareal compared to with us? I bet we score more goals on average than those sides did but his reputation was based on pragmatism and those dour lengthy tactical video sessions.

I'd rather us be this way than the opposite but we need to find some balance in how we defend as it risks killing us.

Villareal 87 games 137 scored 88 conceded  (1.57pg - 1.01pg)
Sevilla  134 games 226 scored 173 conceded (1.68pg - 1.29pg)
Valencia 152 games 250 scored 182 conceded 1.64pg - 1.19pg)
Villa 74 games 133 scored 107 conceded (1.79pg - 1.44pg)

We score more but concede more

First 46 games 58 conceded  (1.26pg)
Second 28 games 49 conceded (1.75pg)

The first 46 games ie before 2024 were more akin to his previous records at other clubs. Whatever we are doing is or isn't working depending on whether you think we will consistently be able to outscore opponents in a gun fight. Our record in 2024 reads 12 wins 8 draws 8 defeats. Extrapolate that over a season and you end up with 60 points and 7th or 8th.

TLDR  - Obvious answer, we need to tighten up.

[Mister E]

Does anyone have the stats on what Emery's sides conceded on average at Valencia, Sevilla and Villareal compared to with us? I bet we score more goals on average than those sides did but his reputation was based on pragmatism and those dour lengthy tactical video sessions.
I'd rather us be this way than the opposite but we need to find some balance in how we defend as it risks killing us.

Villareal 87 games 137 scored 88 conceded  (1.57pg - 1.01pg)
Sevilla  134 games 226 scored 173 conceded (1.68pg - 1.29pg)
Valencia 152 games 250 scored 182 conceded 1.64pg - 1.19pg)
Villa 74 games 133 scored 107 conceded (1.79pg - 1.44pg)

We score more but concede more

First 46 games 58 conceded  (1.26pg)
Second 28 games 49 conceded (1.75pg)

The first 46 games ie before 2024 were more akin to his previous records at other clubs. Whatever we are doing is or isn't working depending on whether you think we will consistently be able to outscore opponents in a gun fight. Our record in 2024 reads 12 wins 8 draws 8 defeats. Extrapolate that over a season and you end up with 60 points and 7th or 8th.
TLDR  - Obvious answer, we need to tighten up.

Interesting. Not really a league-winning strategy, to allow so many conceded goals.
Ironically, we have not conceded in the Chumps League yet, although it is only 3 games.

[Mister E]

I think part of the problem with the defence is what is ahead of them. Its a bit like the Smith team sometimes, where the opposition seem to be able to get at our back four pretty easily.
I think all hopes are on Kamara.

Well, yes and ...
... given the personnel that we have, I wonder whether we would be better playing with a back 3 and utilising Nedeljkovic and Maatsen as our wide players. With Kamara, Onana and Tielemans in the middle and Watkins and Rogers (or Ramsey or Bailey depending on form, fitness and opposition), we would be solid and have some attacking tools. Obviously, we would also have plenty of options on the bench to change the system when we needed to.

[jon collett]

I haven’t seen the game yesterday, but as a general point, isn’t it about time he sorted the defence out? Our strongest team and bench yesterday, and we get absolutely destroyed. The defence has been below par for way too long now.

We need a proper leader at CB. None of Pau, Konsa and Carlos are that.

It’s not really that I don’t think. I think that’d be symptom rather than cause - the cause is the midfield just isn’t controlling the game or protecting the defence well enough.

Completely agree and ever since I’ve watched him in pre season I’ve wondered how Onana can fit into this team. I’m worried Unai is confused about what team to play now.

[eamonn]

Does anyone have the stats on what Emery's sides conceded on average at Valencia, Sevilla and Villareal compared to with us? I bet we score more goals on average than those sides did but his reputation was based on pragmatism and those dour lengthy tactical video sessions.

I'd rather us be this way than the opposite but we need to find some balance in how we defend as it risks killing us.

Villareal 87 games 137 scored 88 conceded  (1.57pg - 1.01pg)
Sevilla  134 games 226 scored 173 conceded (1.68pg - 1.29pg)
Valencia 152 games 250 scored 182 conceded 1.64pg - 1.19pg)
Villa 74 games 133 scored 107 conceded (1.79pg - 1.44pg)

We score more but concede more

First 46 games 58 conceded  (1.26pg)
Second 28 games 49 conceded (1.75pg)

The first 46 games ie before 2024 were more akin to his previous records at other clubs. Whatever we are doing is or isn't working depending on whether you think we will consistently be able to outscore opponents in a gun fight. Our record in 2024 reads 12 wins 8 draws 8 defeats. Extrapolate that over a season and you end up with 60 points and 7th or 8th.

TLDR  - Obvious answer, we need to tighten up.

Excellent work, cheers. I guess the absence of Mings and the attacking prowess but defensive dodginess of Torres accounts for some of the change.

[brontebilly]

I think it is more a structual problem - then personale to be honest.

As stupid as it sounds - we defended quite well until we let in the 4 goals :-).  I think we just couldnt control the game or play through there press - I think thats were we miss luiz - and when we go direct, we're not cute enough for a decent defence.

Watkins was appalling yesterday. Spurs missing their best defender, I'm hoping we are going long for him to exploit them and give us an out ball. His hold up play was shocking, for example just before second goal he simply can't be losing the ball in that position with half of the pitch to run into. Then when Duran came on his attitude stunk. Id give Duran a few games now starting with Brugge.

I thought our defensive shape was excellent in the first half. Both full backs were very good defensively and Onana was strong in midfield.

[Drummond]

I haven’t seen the game yesterday, but as a general point, isn’t it about time he sorted the defence out? Our strongest team and bench yesterday, and we get absolutely destroyed. The defence has been below par for way too long now.

We need a proper leader at CB. None of Pau, Konsa and Carlos are that.

It’s not really that I don’t think. I think that’d be symptom rather than cause - the cause is the midfield just isn’t controlling the game or protecting the defence well enough.

Completely agree and ever since I’ve watched him in pre season I’ve wondered how Onana can fit into this team. I’m worried Unai is confused about what team to play now.

When Kamara is full fit, we'll no doubt find out. I suspect we will see different combinations, Emery would no doubt like to play different systems too, given the squad and wanting both our strikers to play together too. It's tough, but what we really don't want is a confused attempt to play certain players just because they are good, rather than playing in true positions.

I could see Kamara and Tielemans doing the same as Kamara and Luiz. I can picture Onana and Kamara as a 2 with Tielemans in front instead of Rogers. But that would, in my view, require a full fit and flying Bailey.

Onana was great in that first half yesterday, breaking things up, playing good passes and generally being involved.

[PaulWinch again]

I agree different combos are key. End of last season our form was kind of understandable - savage injuries combined with fatigue left us hugely exposed. Our form in the league right now is less explainable, we’ve got a very strong squad now and it’s early in the season. I suppose there’s an element of new players bedding in, but we need to start looking much more coherent on a consistent basis pretty quickly.

[eye digress]

I saw an analysis in The Athletic on the build up for their second. It showed that it was a turnover caused by Watkins trying to link up with Duran and losing possession which left us exposed to their quick transition. Prior to that we’d been set up to specifically counter that threat.The only reason they were both on at the same time was due to trying to protect Rogers. That was the  74th minute and although in the end they won comfortably that was the pivotal goal.

Pointed out elsewhere, I think bringing Duran on was the key mistake yesterday. We could have brought Kamara on and pushed Tielemans further forward and maintained the strength of our spine.

That being said, that 10 minute period where there was a glut of injuries and subs was very weird, so am reluctant to criticise. I was actually pleased initially to see Duran come on, sharing Unai’s (apparent) view that although they had clawed their way back into it, the game was still there for the taking and that we were just as likely to get the next goal (after which, he’d have made a defensive sub).

[Risso]

For all of Unai’s undoubted strengths, he seems to have massive blind spots against inferior managers like Ten Hag and Ange Mate. Infuriating.

[Ads]

Seen a statistic that we've conceded 4 goals with Cash on the pitch this season and 11 when not?

[Mister E]

Seen a statistic that we've conceded 4 goals with Cash on the pitch this season and 11 when not?

** Percy to the  Emery thread, Percy to the  Emery thread **