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Author Topic: Supporters Trust & Purslow  (Read 13841 times)

Offline pauliewalnuts

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2022, 10:43:33 AM »
I understand the sentiment around we can't just expect the owners to pour in money ad infinitum, revenue needs to be grown etc etc. All sensible, as is managing the squad properly.

But if it is that last point Purslow has hinted at, why is he persisting with a manager who has not improved a single member of that squad in his time here?

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2022, 11:07:36 AM »
Good luck on getting someone like Poch to come when there's only self generated cash to spend. They've been great owners and obviously saved us from a huge mess, but it does look to me like their initial enthusiasm is on the wane. The summer transfer window after a bright start wasn't a good one, and wasn't nearly enough for us to kick on.
It was the same message under Lerner, although it looks like we are now a more professionally run outfit than back then.
Its very difficult to tread water in business and football and that looks like what we will be attempting now.
Lets face it the transfer activity since we came up has been pretty meh. The rot set in dicking around at the Lensbury club and we have not recovered from that.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2022, 11:08:31 AM »
It all seems a bit mundane. When we realised on that glorious day in 2018 that we'd won the New Owners Lottery, was sell to buy and hoping to finish eighth really what we expected five years on?

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2022, 11:31:42 AM »
It all seems a bit mundane. When we realised on that glorious day in 2018 that we'd won the New Owners Lottery, was sell to buy and hoping to finish eighth really what we expected five years on?
No, and I genuinely believe that was not their thoughts or motivation either.

If hanging around mid-table and trying to avoid a relegation scrap is it, then I would rather be in the Championship with lots more traditional Kick off times, less chance of humiliating defeats and more fun generally.

Offline boozey182

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2022, 11:38:02 AM »
To go back to the original topic, I think this is why it is important the Trust exists. There seem to be a few more decisions that the club is making at the moment that are starting to annoy some of us. We still seem to be heading in broadly the right direction, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't starting to become slightly concerned. And I say that as a huge fan of the owners.

I don't think the Trust has any actual power or sway over what the club does, but I sort of see them as like those pictures of police officers that you sometimes see in the window of petrol stations. If anything major happened they would be powerless to stop it, but maybe just the fact that they are there might prevent it from happening in the first place? The more members it has, and the more active they are, maybe the more the club will consider the impact on fans? I dunno - maybe I'm being naïve.

We have certainly hit a bit of a rut recently. Apathy seems to be creeping in everywhere, and it's becoming all too reminiscent of the last 25 years... I want some excitement back.

Offline Nev

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2022, 11:47:52 AM »
It all seems a bit mundane. When we realised on that glorious day in 2018 that we'd won the New Owners Lottery, was sell to buy and hoping to finish eighth really what we expected five years on?
No, and I genuinely believe that was not their thoughts or motivation either.

If hanging around mid-table and trying to avoid a relegation scrap is it, then I would rather be in the Championship with lots more traditional Kick off times, less chance of humiliating defeats and more fun generally.

Same here, my enthusiasm has plummeted this season. It has a lot to do with the fact that I can't see where we're going and the fact that "existing" has appeared to replace "progressing". I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that this is restricted to the abilities of the Manager rather than any intention from the owners. So we're reliant on the Managers ethos and methods suddenly clicking into place or him being replaced, the evidence would suggest the former is unlikely so that leads many to hope for the latter.

I've passed on the trip to Newton Heath but would've gone in January had we taken a larger allocation. Back then I was optimistic but now watching us feels a chore and not one to persuade me to put myself out on a school night.

Offline Billy Walker

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2022, 11:56:14 AM »
In terms of on-pitch matters, it feels like the Club has massively taken its eye off the ball over the past year or so (for the men's team, at least). Maybe this is because a lot of Purslow's focus has been on the new North Stand?  Whatever the reason, this is pretty disappointing and it feels we are steadily losing the momentum we built up over the past few years.  We don't seem to have any discernible strategy in terms of building a top class football team and the fact that we can't convince our best players to stay (JG, Chuk) is another disappointing indicator of a lack of desire to genuinely compete at the top. 

It's surprising because, looking at the way Wes Edens approaches things with the Bucks, at least, it is clear he is extremely competitive and driven to win.  Maybe the two owners have looked at the way football is structured with the glass ceiling of Champs League qualification and the unfair skewing of finances towards a six club cartel, and simply come to the conclusion that bobbing about in the top flight offers them the best bang for their buck?  Hopefully not.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2022, 12:00:19 PM »
I agree to a point with Boozey. The need for supporter groups is as great as it's ever been. The big battles might not happen now but there is still a fight on for the soul of clubs like Villa. The people in charge might dream of fifty thousand customers, a heady mix of corporates and happy, smiling families clapping along merrily to the club song and saying prices rises are necessary for success, but there's still plenty of us mardyarses turning up. We can't poke our heads round the door at the AGM anymore but we can still speak up when something ain't right.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 12:02:23 PM by dave.woodhall »

Offline paul_e

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2022, 01:36:00 PM »
I think there's 2 seperate points being smashed together fairly inelegantly on here.

Sell-to-buy is about not having 'waste' in the squad. We can't keep bringing in players and letting the people they've reaplaced hang around training on their own and providing nothing. I can't see how anyone would have a problem with that. It means a senior squad of 22-23 players with 5-6 talented kids making up the numbers as they get introduced. After a year or 2 the kids are either good enough to replace a senior squad player or we sell them for as much as we can and bring through the next in line. That means when you buy it's because that next in line isn't there and there's a need for an immediate injection of quality. I've said many times that signing 6-7 players every window is a shit way to run a club, if we're doing things properly it should be 2-3 players in and out from the main squad, supplemented with kids both ways as well.

Self-sustaining doesn't mean that we only spend what we make in transfers though, it means we try to only spend money we make from all revenue sources. In that model money in from the owners is targeted at growing revenue rather than supplementing the playing squad, so things like the work on the ground but also improving the facilities and scouting to ensure we're getting as much as possible from the players we have and the youth system. More importantly it means not skirting around FFP all the time and having to find excuses to get away with huge cash injections.

In both cases what Gerrard is doing doesn't really fit, which is why I can't see him lasting much longer, I like the idea of running the club properly, but it relies heavily on having good coaches at all levels.

Offline villadelph

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2022, 01:53:39 PM »
I think there's 2 seperate points being smashed together fairly inelegantly on here.

Sell-to-buy is about not having 'waste' in the squad. We can't keep bringing in players and letting the people they've replaced hang around training on their own and providing nothing. I can't see how anyone would have a problem with that. It means a senior squad of 22-23 players with 5-6 talented kids making up the numbers as they get introduced. After a year or 2 the kids are either good enough to replace a senior squad player or we sell them for as much as we can and bring through the next in line. That means when you buy it's because that next in line isn't there and there's a need for an immediate injection of quality. I've said many times that signing 6-7 players every window is a shit way to run a club, if we're doing things properly it should be 2-3 players in and out from the main squad, supplemented with kids both ways as well.

Self-sustaining doesn't mean that we only spend what we make in transfers though, it means we try to only spend money we make from all revenue sources. In that model money in from the owners is targeted at growing revenue rather than supplementing the playing squad, so things like the work on the ground but also improving the facilities and scouting to ensure we're getting as much as possible from the players we have and the youth system. More importantly it means not skirting around FFP all the time and having to find excuses to get away with huge cash injections.

In both cases what Gerrard is doing doesn't really fit, which is why I can't see him lasting much longer, I like the idea of running the club properly, but it relies heavily on having good coaches at all levels.

I don't think anyone at the club is sanctioning incoming transfers with the intention of bringing waste into the squad. Herein lies the problem. We spent "big" on Carlos, Digne, Ollie, Buendia, Bailey, Ings etc over the last two years.. and none of them are lighting the world on fire. At this point, its hard to believe that we will be able to sell any for a profit. How can we implement a self-sufficiency strategy when we're buying high and selling low? I think we're all fine with injecting some homegrown youth into the squad, but first and foremost, we have to WIN.

This brings up our biggest issue. If we are going to be using revenue flows from throughout the club's different ventures, we will need to be a successful team in Europe. You can't get there by panic buying Dendoncker and marching on with Gerrard, who has clearly stalled without Beale.

Commercial revenue doesn't grow for teams finishing in the bottom 7 or 8. There's no appeal for the consumer in that. We must be on an upward trajectory to entice the international football community to take notice. When we set out to target Kamara and paint a picture of a pretty future, and he buys in.. the supporters of Marseille shouldn't be raising an eyebrow thinking "wtf, aston villa..?!" If he would've gone to a club like Spurs, Atletico, Napoli etc.. they wouldn't have had the same reaction.

We can get there.. but it is going to take significantly more investment from the owners before we stabilize at a high level of play and become "self-sufficient". I'm not sure this group of players is only a manager away from getting there. We aren't successful enough at this point in time to woo new supporters, to pickup television contracts internationally or sell merchandise to casual football fans. The commercial aspect has a long way to go.. because in truth I think they are selling tickets and shirts to the same 50,000 people every year. If you want to grow, you've got to win.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 01:55:33 PM by villadelph »

Offline Mister E

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2022, 01:57:25 PM »
Surely they suffer enough without miserable bastids from H&V joining their ranks?
It was the miserable bastards from H&V who virtually started it.
Oi! no need to be offensive!



I agree to a point with Boozey. The need for supporter groups is as great as it's ever been. The big battles might not happen now but there is still a fight on for the soul of clubs like Villa. The people in charge might dream of fifty thousand customers, a heady mix of corporates and happy, smiling families clapping along merrily to the club song and saying prices rises are necessary for success, but there's still plenty of us mardyarses turning up. We can't poke our heads round the door at the AGM anymore but we can still speak up when something ain't right.
Hear, hear
« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 02:03:13 PM by Mister E »

Offline Mister E

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2022, 02:04:58 PM »
Preece published this on the Brum Mail this morning..
"A spokesman for the Villa Trust commented: “The club’s policy would be more focused on outs for ins with transfers being more self-financing as the club could not rely on the owners - Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens - to continually fund transfers from their own pockets."
Before melting down over this comment, I'd want to know who the 'spokesman' is and what part of what was said confirmed his interpretation.

Offline markeeeebeeee2005

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2022, 02:19:08 PM »
We’re only really going on what Purslow is saying, which may or may not be the full picture.

If you were the owners would you be giving Purslow a tonne more cash to burn with his recent decision making seriously in question. No, you’d tell him he’s on a sell to buy policy unless he shows some serious progress against the milestones set out.

I’m possibly reading too much into this, but it could be that Nas and Wes’ trust in Purslow and his star boy Gerrard is what is currently under the microscope not their ambitions for Villa or their commitment to supporting that financially.

If I’m right, then fair play. If they’re settling for A Purslow/ Gerrard combo with a sell to buy policy then that’d be pretty disappointing as scraping by in the Prem would be about our level with the odd relegation and promotion thrown in.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 02:41:47 PM by markeeeebeeee2005 »

Offline paul_e

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2022, 02:21:13 PM »
Those signings represent such a range that conflating them all into 'buy high and sell low' is just silly. What does link them all as that, right now, we haven't seen them perform to the level that we know they have in them.

Everything else in your post comes back to that same point, we're not getting value from the squad and if we don't do that everything falls apart, that's why Gerrard is doing such a poor job right now.

I agree completely with the last line:

If you want to grow, you've got to win.

I just don't agree with the idea that the only way we can do that is by letting Gerrard spaff money up the wall over and over again. The solution has to be that we get the coach right, see that they're doing the job and then gve them the money to make targeted key improvements to the squad and back them to move on the players they don't think fit. Kamara was a great signing and hit every mark on how to do business properly in this model. I think Carlos might've been another and Olsen made sense for the cost given we desperately needed a reliable backup and he was already familiar with the squad. Despite not disliking Dendoncker as much as many on here the rest of the window felt a lot less planned and I suspect that's because Gerrard doesn't know how he wants to play.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2022, 02:23:22 PM by paul_e »

Offline boozey182

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Re: Supporters Trust & Purslow
« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2022, 02:32:03 PM »
We’re only really going on what Purslow is saying, which may or may not be the full picture.

If you were the owners would you be giving Purslow a tonne more cash to burn with his recent decision making seriously in question. No, you’d tell him he’s on a sell to buy policy unless he shows some serious progress against the milestones set out.

I’m possibly reading too much into this, but it could be that Nas and Wes’ trust in Purslow and his star boy Gerrard is what is currently under the microscope not their ambitions for Villa or there commitment to supporting that financially.

If I’m right, then fair play. If they’re settling for A Purslow/ Gerrard combo with a sell to buy policy then that’d be pretty disappointing as scraping by in the Prem would be about our level with the odd relegation and promotion thrown in.

The thing that I can't quite get my head around is the 'other' stuff. The ground expansion, the investment in the academy, the possible links up with other clubs/Vegas Villains. None of that seems to suggest that they are happy with bobbing around the lower half of the league like we have been doing for the last 18 months - but maybe it has been a big distraction? Or maybe they banking on the popularity of the league in general to sustain us? That seems incredibly short-sighted. But the problem with long-term planning is that this league moves very quickly. This time last season, Newcastle were a laughing stock and Leicester were seen as the main rival to the top 6. Lerner learned the hard way that gradual progression will only last so long before you are overtaken by someone new.

This is what gives me hope that we will continue to progress. We made a bad managerial appointment last year, which happens. What we can't do is let that force us to reassess our ambition as a club. We dust ourselves off and get back on track with someone that kows what they are doing.

 


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