Bolton 1 Aston Villa 4 Post Match Thread.

[RamboandBruno]

... I can't imagine there being any consistency in results and performance and general improvement. Gerrard is a cheque book manager, has made the wrong call with captaincy, pissed off our leader and generally made a pigs ear of a lot of things. He hasn't promoted youth so far, quite the opposite and his hard man attitude doesn't appear to have roused the squad.
We can either give him loads of money and he can replace everyone with players who fit his desired formation or trundle along in lower mid table because he isn't a good manager who could improve us with nous alone.

And ...

The midfield is a major concern to me, none of the permutations used this season, including last night, fill me with confidence. Without any doubt, Mc Ginn is not justifying his place except to be involved in the coin toss at the start...
... there comes a time when we have to give a manager time to have his own players and implement his overall playing style...

In 2 differently-angled posts we have a summary of where we're at: still trying to work out how to play with the resources we have. I personally think the SG project is nearing a decision time.

He'll get criticised for it, but I'd have more trust in Gerrard if he realised that the current squad profile can't play his system and change it up to maximise what we currently have. It's got to be a 4-2-3-1 and McGinn has got to be changed as captain. It's better to admit you've made a mistake and start to address it then to double down because it'll see him get the sack for sure.

I don’t think there has to be another symbolic changing of the captain that gets major publicity and lots of noise. He could take McGinn out of the team for a game, frame it as rotating the squad, playing a different system, utilising the best playing resources available for each game. Give the armband to Martinez and then if we play better and get a decent result, keep the same team. Not everything has to be a dramatic statement of intent.

[LeonW]

... I can't imagine there being any consistency in results and performance and general improvement. Gerrard is a cheque book manager, has made the wrong call with captaincy, pissed off our leader and generally made a pigs ear of a lot of things. He hasn't promoted youth so far, quite the opposite and his hard man attitude doesn't appear to have roused the squad.
We can either give him loads of money and he can replace everyone with players who fit his desired formation or trundle along in lower mid table because he isn't a good manager who could improve us with nous alone.

And ...

The midfield is a major concern to me, none of the permutations used this season, including last night, fill me with confidence. Without any doubt, Mc Ginn is not justifying his place except to be involved in the coin toss at the start...
... there comes a time when we have to give a manager time to have his own players and implement his overall playing style...

In 2 differently-angled posts we have a summary of where we're at: still trying to work out how to play with the resources we have. I personally think the SG project is nearing a decision time.

He'll get criticised for it, but I'd have more trust in Gerrard if he realised that the current squad profile can't play his system and change it up to maximise what we currently have. It's got to be a 4-2-3-1 and McGinn has got to be changed as captain. It's better to admit you've made a mistake and start to address it then to double down because it'll see him get the sack for sure.

I don’t think there has to be another symbolic changing of the captain that gets major publicity and lots of noise. He could take McGinn out of the team for a game, frame it as rotating the squad, playing a different system, utilising the best playing resources available for each game. Give the armband to Martinez and then if we play better and get a decent result, keep the same team. Not everything has to be a dramatic statement of intent.

What I was getting at is taking McGinn out of the team. It's whether him being captain keeps him in the team. Gerrard over hyped the captaincy issue earlier this year onwards which makes me think that for him, the captain has to play. That's a problem. It's also potentially further a problem if McGinn struggles to perform his normal role whilst being captain. That was the reason given for taking it from Mings and McGinn's game has not improved as being captain.

[RamboandBruno]

Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t  want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence. 

[LeonW]

Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t  want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence.

That's pretty much where I'm at. I don't think the captaincy thing is a big issue myself. I think it's largely a symbolic role. It just depends if Gerrard does and whether it prevents him from doing what needs to be done.

[olaftab]

If we ply well and start getting results and he won’t get any criticism for too long.

wood hope so.

Well at the moment Gerrard can’t see the wood for the trees, it’s obvious that the midfield needs sprucing up.

I think he needs to make a laminated one pager for every player.

[nordenvillain]

Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t  want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence.

That's pretty much where I'm at. I don't think the captaincy thing is a big issue myself. I think it's largely a symbolic role. It just depends if Gerrard does and whether it prevents him from doing what needs to be done.

The captaincy does become an issue if McGinn continues his present poor run of form and still gets picked, suggesting that this is only because he's Gerrard's appointed captain and can't or won't be dropped. In addition, the continual playing of Ings and Watkins together, especially in away PL games, is leaving us too open in midfield. As others have said, a 4-2-3-1 formation with either Watkins or Ings upfront makes much better sense. Until we reach 1st September and are aware of any new recruits, I'll leave choosing the players to fill these positions until after then. I know we have 2 PL games before then, but I'm looking at the whole season and not the next 2 games.

[Paul.S]

Mings man of the match for me. He stood out as a leader.

[RamboandBruno]

Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t  want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence.

That's pretty much where I'm at. I don't think the captaincy thing is a big issue myself. I think it's largely a symbolic role. It just depends if Gerrard does and whether it prevents him from doing what needs to be done.

The captaincy does become an issue if McGinn continues his present poor run of form and still gets picked, suggesting that this is only because he's Gerrard's appointed captain and can't or won't be dropped. In addition, the continual playing of Ings and Watkins together, especially in away PL games, is leaving us too open in midfield. As others have said, a 4-2-3-1 formation with either Watkins or Ings upfront makes much better sense. Until we reach 1st September and are aware of any new recruits, I'll leave choosing the players to fill these positions until after then. I know we have 2 PL games before then, but I'm looking at the whole season and not the next 2 games.

Ings and Watkins havent started together in any of the two premier league away games so far. I think your right about the formation though, home and away for now. The question is, who is that second sitting midfielder? McGinns out of form and probably shouldn’t be in the team. Tim will be good but he’s probably too young and untried to start every game, which leaves the obvious candidate being Luiz, who is better linking the play a bit further forwards. Difficult and highlights the need to get another midfielder in.

[dcdavecollett]

Quite remarkable that with the game at 1-1 after an hour we went on to win comfortably.

After Leon's goal, we could easily have scored another FOUR before the last whistle.