Gerrard In or Out?

[algy]

We haven't had a manager stay in the job for more than four years since Ron Saunders and it's nearly fifty years since he was appointed and 40 years since he left. Gerrard would really have to go some to be considered good enough for Liverpool in that time, we'd probably need to see top 8 next year, top 6 the year after and then Champions League after that. IF at that point there was a vacancy at Liverpool, and IF he left, which top manager wouldn't want to come to Villa to manage a Champions League team that would have to have been backed by the owners to the absolute hilt?

We'll see what he's about next year when he's had the summer to bring some of his own players in.

Absolutely.

There's a lot of talk about Gerrard using us as a stepping stone, but little about us doing the same thing with him.  Right now, he's able to attract players like Coutinho who probably wouldn't come to us if it wasn't for the Gerrard factor.  I see it that in 2/3 seasons time, we're going to assess Gerrard's reign and see if he's still the right person to take us forward.  I've a strong suspicion that's what happened with Smith-Terry-O'Kelly last summer.  Smith, with 1 year left, was deemed to not be what we needed to challenge for the top 8, and so Terry & ROK were effectively given the boot and Smith left as caretaker manager for the season, although a drop in performances meant he didn't make it that far.

[Nunkin1965]

I agree with Risso. Bear in mind he's the hardest taskmaster on here when it comes to the manager's and players' performance.

There are some interesting views on the manager on here.
It's almost as if the more successful he could be the more unhappy some supporters will be because he'll be leaving for Liverpool anyway.
Like so many others he might fail but there is also the possibility that he'd leave Villa in a much stronger position than when he arrived.
And be a more attractive proposition for bigger profile managers.

[Mister E]

... I've a strong suspicion that's what happened with Smith-Terry-O'Kelly last summer.  Smith, with 1 year left, was deemed to not be what we needed to challenge for the top 8, and so Terry & ROK were effectively given the boot and Smith left as caretaker manager for the season, although a drop in performances meant he didn't make it that far.

Haven't seen it put quite that way before, algy. Does your strong suspicion have substance or is it just your opinion?

[Beard82]

... I've a strong suspicion that's what happened with Smith-Terry-O'Kelly last summer.  Smith, with 1 year left, was deemed to not be what we needed to challenge for the top 8, and so Terry & ROK were effectively given the boot and Smith left as caretaker manager for the season, although a drop in performances meant he didn't make it that far.

Haven't seen it put quite that way before, algy. Does your strong suspicion have substance or is it just your opinion?

Completely guessing - but I think there may be something in it - I think the back room
Changes could have been forced on him - as they don’t really make sense otherwise.

I think also some of the half hearted bids for people like JWP felt they might have gone all in on them if they were more convinced on the manager 

[Risso]

I think also some of the half hearted bids for people like JWP felt they might have gone all in on them if they were more convinced on the manager 

That's a possiblity but then we had a similar half-arsed bid for Bissouma as well.

[paul_e]

We haven't had a manager stay in the job for more than four years since Ron Saunders and it's nearly fifty years since he was appointed and 40 years since he left. Gerrard would really have to go some to be considered good enough for Liverpool in that time, we'd probably need to see top 8 next year, top 6 the year after and then Champions League after that. IF at that point there was a vacancy at Liverpool, and IF he left, which top manager wouldn't want to come to Villa to manage a Champions League team that would have to have been backed by the owners to the absolute hilt?

We'll see what he's about next year when he's had the summer to bring some of his own players in.

Absolutely.

There's a lot of talk about Gerrard using us as a stepping stone, but little about us doing the same thing with him.  Right now, he's able to attract players like Coutinho who probably wouldn't come to us if it wasn't for the Gerrard factor.  I see it that in 2/3 seasons time, we're going to assess Gerrard's reign and see if he's still the right person to take us forward.  I've a strong suspicion that's what happened with Smith-Terry-O'Kelly last summer.  Smith, with 1 year left, was deemed to not be what we needed to challenge for the top 8, and so Terry & ROK were effectively given the boot and Smith left as caretaker manager for the season, although a drop in performances meant he didn't make it that far.

I think Smith, rightly or wrongly, took the blame for us having an abysmal summer, the state of the team on the first weekend against watford was shameful and we've never really recovered from that. The Grealish sideshow all summer, in the end, probably did more damage to us than simply losing him as a player. Add on the changes in coaching and Smith appearing to let the "can't win without Jack" jibes get to him to the point where he abandoned almost everything that had been good about us and we were in a mess.

On Gerrard I think a pre-season is massively important to get players working as you want them too, doing it during the season is so much harder because of fixture pile-up and fatigue. On that basis I don't like sacking managers without them having had that chance. I think we're all disappointed by how things have gone this year after it looking like we'd be pushing for top 8 this time last year but we need to take a step back and see if going through another change in coaching and management 8 months later is sensible. I keep coming back to the fact that I can see what we're trying to do even though it's not quite working as we want, if we can cut down the individual errors at the back (and mitigate for them with an extra layer of defence in front) I don't think adding 15-20 points on the total next year is out of the question, on the back of 3-4 signings.

In the meantime I'd like to see if the return of Nakamba (who is a very limited version of the player I want in there) shows how big a difference to this team that player can make.

[Beard82]

I think also some of the half hearted bids for people like JWP felt they might have gone all in on them if they were more convinced on the manager 

That's a possiblity but then we had a similar half-arsed bid for Bissouma as well.

Yeah but I think that might have been more strategic - in that they know his value is dropping all the time - and as we were not going down or getting into Europe they thought they better off waiting for the summer

Whether that works out or not remains to be seen

[Risso]

I re-watched the first half of the Spurs game yesterday, and we really were utterly dominant and played some excellent football. I was at the game with two Spurs-supporting clients and even though they were 1-0 up, they were watching that half through their fingers.

[Brazilian Villain]

On Gerrard I think a pre-season is massively important to get players working as you want them too, doing it during the season is so much harder because of fixture pile-up and fatigue. On that basis I don't like sacking managers without them having had that chance. I think we're all disappointed by how things have gone this year after it looking like we'd be pushing for top 8 this time last year but we need to take a step back and see if going through another change in coaching and management 8 months later is sensible. I keep coming back to the fact that I can see what we're trying to do even though it's not quite working as we want, if we can cut down the individual errors at the back (and mitigate for them with an extra layer of defence in front) I don't think adding 15-20 points on the total next year is out of the question, on the back of 3-4 signings.

In the meantime I'd like to see if the return of Nakamba (who is a very limited version of the player I want in there) shows how big a difference to this team that player can make.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Particularly interested in how we get on with Marvellous back after he regains match fitness.

[Risso]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Particularly interested in how we get on with Marvellous back after he regains match fitness.

Looks like there's a behind closed doors friendly with Brentford tomorrow so hopefully he'll play most of that.

[TonyD]

Both from what I’ve seen so far and my gut instinct tells me he is not going take us up a level. 
Something doesn’t feel right about the club.  It feels less our club.   

[murgsy]

I wasn't his biggest fan - although Smith had to go. Not sure if there was a better appointment available, realistically (I wanted Potter but I doubt he would have been miles better). He has to be given a proper summer transfer window and see if he can really get a better pattern.

The fact that he has exposed our CBs through FBs pushing up and virtually no proper DCM - shows some naivete. As does playing both strikers - ineffectively. So I have growing doubts about his tactical nous - but still think he deserves a good 6-9 months. Unless we are sinking...

[Risso]

He got Marvelous playing well for the first time in his Villa career, and he wanted Bissouma as he said directly.

[Neil Hawkes]

I re-watched the first half of the Spurs game yesterday, and we really were utterly dominant and played some excellent football. I was at the game with two Spurs-supporting clients and even though they were 1-0 up, they were watching that half through their fingers.

My Spurs supporting mate reckons we should have been 4-1 up at half time, he's been following them for 50+ years.

[Billy Walker]

I agree with Risso. Bear in mind he's the hardest taskmaster on here when it comes to the manager's and players' performance.

There are some interesting views on the manager on here.
It's almost as if the more successful he could be the more unhappy some supporters will be because he'll be leaving for Liverpool anyway.
Like so many others he might fail but there is also the possibility that he'd leave Villa in a much stronger position than when he arrived.
And be a more attractive proposition for bigger profile managers.

The moment he leaves us for Liverpool (should it ever happen) will be the moment Villa and Liverpool are heading in opposite directions (Villa upwards!).