Loans 2021-22

[Percy McCarthy]

Something I’ve heard said for years that also makes sense is that a loan at a lower level makes them appreciate the facilities and coaching they get at their home academy and adds to their determination to get back to and succeed at that level.

[mr underhill]

not when your arse is glued to a bench. #bringbackbarry

[Smithy]

So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at?  National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play.  Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing men's football etc?

For the first loan move (as is the case for most of them) I think the level doesn't matter that much it's more getting them playing against experienced players who don't have as much ability as them and will try to bully them. For most youngsters you don't want their first experience of that being in the first team of their home club.

Indeed, you've also got to consider the age of the youngsters going out on loan - 17/18 is still very young.  he-who-can't-be-named spent a year at the bottom of league one at 18 and said it was brilliant for his development.

Generally speaking, teenagers don't go on loan to Championship clubs (or higher). Even when we loaned Tuanzebe and Tammy, they were both 21, and Tammy had had two loans already by that point.

I think the only player we have who could have realistically got a loan at a reasonable Championship level was Keinan - given he's played and scored at premier league level. He's shown enough at first-team level to ensure clubs are getting known quantity.  Kids with no first-team experience aren't going to get a lot of game time at Championship level unless they've played before.

I hope a few of them light up their sides, and they call come back better, more rounded players.  But I fully expect that for a good chunk of them, this won't be their only loan - even if they eventually make the grade with us.  By the time they're ready to properly compete for a first-team position, they'll hopefully be competing with players capable of playing European football.

[paul_e]

So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at?  National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play.  Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing men's football etc?

For the first loan move (as is the case for most of them) I think the level doesn't matter that much it's more getting them playing against experienced players who don't have as much ability as them and will try to bully them. For most youngsters you don't want their first experience of that being in the first team of their home club.

Indeed, you've also got to consider the age of the youngsters going out on loan - 17/18 is still very young.  he-who-can't-be-named spent a year at the bottom of league one at 18 and said it was brilliant for his development.

Generally speaking, teenagers don't go on loan to Championship clubs (or higher). Even when we loaned Tuanzebe and Tammy, they were both 21, and Tammy had had two loans already by that point.

I think the only player we have who could have realistically got a loan at a reasonable Championship level was Keinan - given he's played and scored at premier league level. He's shown enough at first-team level to ensure clubs are getting known quantity.  Kids with no first-team experience aren't going to get a lot of game time at Championship level unless they've played before.

I hope a few of them light up their sides, and they call come back better, more rounded players.  But I fully expect that for a good chunk of them, this won't be their only loan - even if they eventually make the grade with us.  By the time they're ready to properly compete for a first-team position, they'll hopefully be competing with players capable of playing European football.

The only bit I disagree with is that JJ Ramsey would've had plenty of offers from the championship if we'd made him available but given we didn't sign anyone in midfield he's now needed for us, and looks ready.

[OCD]

Chukwuemeka and Philogene-Bidace too possibly?

[paul_e]

Chukwuemeka and Philogene-Bidace too possibly?

Almost certainly but there is a hint of unknown quantity about them still.

[Smithy]

Chukwuemeka and Philogene-Bidace too possibly?

Almost certainly but there is a hint of unknown quantity about them still.

Indeed, young Louie Barry is struggling to get off the bench at a side struggling in League One.  If the kids are going to go out on loan, you want them to play.  I think it's probably better for their development to play 30+ games at League Two level, than to get half a dozen appearances at Championship level?

[Smithy]

So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at?  National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play.  Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing men's football etc?

For the first loan move (as is the case for most of them) I think the level doesn't matter that much it's more getting them playing against experienced players who don't have as much ability as them and will try to bully them. For most youngsters you don't want their first experience of that being in the first team of their home club.

Indeed, you've also got to consider the age of the youngsters going out on loan - 17/18 is still very young.  he-who-can't-be-named spent a year at the bottom of league one at 18 and said it was brilliant for his development.

Generally speaking, teenagers don't go on loan to Championship clubs (or higher). Even when we loaned Tuanzebe and Tammy, they were both 21, and Tammy had had two loans already by that point.

I think the only player we have who could have realistically got a loan at a reasonable Championship level was Keinan - given he's played and scored at premier league level. He's shown enough at first-team level to ensure clubs are getting known quantity.  Kids with no first-team experience aren't going to get a lot of game time at Championship level unless they've played before.

I hope a few of them light up their sides, and they call come back better, more rounded players.  But I fully expect that for a good chunk of them, this won't be their only loan - even if they eventually make the grade with us.  By the time they're ready to properly compete for a first-team position, they'll hopefully be competing with players capable of playing European football.

The only bit I disagree with is that JJ Ramsey would've had plenty of offers from the championship if we'd made him available but given we didn't sign anyone in midfield he's now needed for us, and looks ready.

Yeah, you're right, I hadn't considered him because I guess I now think of him as part of the first-team squad, rather than a player that could do with games for his development.  He's been and had his initial taste of action on loan at Doncaster, so I assume now the club don't think he would benefit any more from being on loan than he would by training with us an established first-team squad member?

But I definitely agree there would have been Championship-level suitors had be been made available.

[sickbeggar]

We need an unofficial feeder club for players in the talented U-18's/not so talented over 18's bracket. Preferably smallish Div'1 level club, can take 4 loans  from us per season so they have that level of experience behind them at least., Give 'em a friendly each year, general exchange of ideas, offer them Davis to improve their injury/physio set-up, that sort of thing.

[Dante Lavelli]

We need an unofficial feeder club for players in the talented U-18's/not so talented over 18's bracket. Preferably smallish Div'1 level club, can take 4 loans  from us per season so they have that level of experience behind them at least., Give 'em a friendly each year, general exchange of ideas, offer them Davis to improve their injury/physio set-up, that sort of thing.

I’ve long thought that this would be a good idea.  Also a good place to test out coaches/scouts/physios etc.  The club in question could lose a chunk of it’s identity so I’m not sure how keen they’d be.

[Hookeysmith]

What is the point of loaning out players if they are not getting games

[fredm]

As Percy has said above, they get to see the other side of professional football. The picky little changing rooms, the rough training pitches etc. Also they are away from home/ their natural surroundings which, hopefully, gives them a better grounding in life. If they have the enthusiasm and backbone for this they will come back to Bodymoor Heath a far more rounded person and determined to show the coaching staff that they can make it at this level.

[Hookeysmith]

Fair enough and maybe that goes someway in explaining why so many do not go on to be top players.
I bet some (not necessarily ours) turn up all Billy big bollocks if they have come from  Premier team as imagine some of the kids from United, City and Chelsea would be on bigger wages than some of the senior pros at league 1 etc. Which if they have an attitude to match would not bode well

[paul_e]

Fair enough and maybe that goes someway in explaining why so many do not go on to be top players.
I bet some (not necessarily ours) turn up all Billy big bollocks if they have come from  Premier team as imagine some of the kids from United, City and Chelsea would be on bigger wages than some of the senior pros at league 1 etc. Which if they have an attitude to match would not bode well

Part of it is the change in attitude from coaches. At youth level a lot of the focus will be on building confidence and technical ability, even if it can be quite cut throat. On loan the expectation is for you to be good enough to play and help teams win games, that's a pretty big change and is at the heart of why so many kids that look to have all the talent they need fail because they struggle to adapt to the responsibility of needing to deliver.

[sickbeggar]

It's all about maximising revenue and ensuring they get careers to my mind. The vast vast majority will not be  good enough at this level, even the ones we keep into their early 20's, but a lot of them could have careers further down the pyramid if they get the opportunities. Sending 4 of them to a Div1 team each summer as part of an arrangement would at least get them noticed at that level and pick up a few transfer fees, and if they're out of their depth, they send them back, no hard feelings.  A couple may even become star performers at that level and may attract bids instead of being eventually released and picked up on frees. And of course we can keep them if they make vast improvements. We've just sent Mungo Bridge out on loan to a French 3rd division club. Now I have no idea if he's rated (I make a point not to follow the youth too closely nowadays) but he's 21 this week and while he will get some benefit i'm not sure the sort of clubs looking at him will be sending scouts to monitor him or that's the level where he should be playing at 21. Having said that, it's probably better than staying in the youth team. With the greatest respect to our coaches, at 21 you're probably going to learn far more as a defender by being left for dead by a Div1 journeyman forward than any sort of coaching