Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ASHTONVILLA on August 08, 2021, 09:36:21 AM
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Haven't spotted a loan thread for this season so thought I'd start one as we have some great young players out on loan this year plus Kalinic.
Looks like Kesler got off to a great start yesterday at Swindon.
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I know KKH to Swindon and Louie Barry to Ipswich. Who else has gone where, so I can keep an eye out?
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Pretty sure Seb Revan is at Grimsby.
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Pretty sure Seb Revan is at Grimsby.
I was surprised to see Grimsby in the National League. Games start on August 21st.
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Onodi at Bromsgrove Sporting. - kept a clean sheet in their last pre-season game yesterday.
Azaz (new signing from the Baggies) at Newport County. - Not involved for them yesterday.
Vassilev at Inter Miami. - has been on the bench every game since he got there and seems to get 10-20 minutes fairly regularly.
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Seb Revan has played in a few friendlies for Grimsby and seems to have impressed.
Kesler won a penalty and did well for Swindon, but went off with a knock after 80 minutes.
Barry was on the bench for Ipswich. Hardly surprising, as he's only just joined them.
Azaz wasnt in the squad for Newport.
No idea about Indiana.
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Indiana is American, isn't he? Not sure why we've kept hold of him, can't see him making it for us.
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Mile Jedinak will be busy!
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Indiana scored the winner for Inter Miami.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/august/Loan-round-up-Vassilev-nets-winner-for-Inter-Miami
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Indiana is American, isn't he? Not sure why we've kept hold of him, can't see him making it for us.
He's not long turned 20, there's plenty of time for him to make it still and the club obviously see something in him given how big a part he played around the first team a couple of years back. If not then keeping him in contract means he's worth something if we do decide to move him on.
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I don't think he has the pace to make it. Yes, there are the likes of Sheringham and Berbatov who can have a good career without blistering speed, but they're rare. If Phil Neville wants to bung us a few quid, I'd sell him.
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Kesler did well for Swindon I watched the EFL highlights this weekend.
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Kesler did well for Swindon I watched the EFL highlights this weekend.
And me, it took forever to get to the Swindon highlights
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Indiana scored the winner for Inter Miami.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/august/Loan-round-up-Vassilev-nets-winner-for-Inter-Miami
Funny old team. Phil Neville managing a Vassilev and Gonzalo Higuain strike partnership.
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Louie Barry made his debut tonight for Ipswich in the League Cup. Lasted 64 minutes, judging by the live text he was heavily involved and got quite a few shots off. Ipswich conceded early and I presume they are/were the favourites (Newport County the opposition) as they had all the play/opportunities afterwards.
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Finn Azaz setup the Newport goal
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Is he Villa or the latest hip-hopper out of Wales?
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Is he Villa or the latest hip-hopper out of Wales?
Joined us from the baggies and went out on loan to Newport the same day.
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Is he Villa or the latest hip-hopper out of Wales?
The greatest South Wales hip-hop song of them all.......
"I'm gonna melt you if you've never been to Chepstow"
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Is he Villa or the latest hip-hopper out of Wales?
The greatest South Wales hip-hop song of them all.......
"I'm gonna melt you if you've never been to Chepstow"
Baneswell Express is better…
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A clickbait site. But article includes twitter comments on Barry.
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/08/11/the-next-pele-some-ipswich-fans-blown-away-by-louie-barrys-debut-performance/
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The next Pele - straight outta Edgbaston!
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Is he Villa or the latest hip-hopper out of Wales?
The greatest South Wales hip-hop song of them all.......
"I'm gonna melt you if you've never been to Chepstow"
I had to go and be on a Nicky Campbell TV thing recorded on that occasion in Newport, the producer was very appreciative of me sharing that, it did the rounds within the crew that week! Good Roman Fort nearby too.
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Disappointing day for our two Youth Cup young fellas out on-loan.
Kaine Kesler-Hayden was sent off for two yellows in Swindon's defeat at home to Carlisle. "Rash and stupid sorry" he fronted-up on Twitter later.
Louie Barry started and played 66 minutes for Ipswich but they also lost, away to Burton.
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Louie was fouled for a penalty at 1-1, but the 'keeper saved it.
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Just looked through 3 pages for this thread... here it was all along!
Brad Young is having a medical at Carlisle prior to a season long loan.
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Hope he does well. We seem to loan players to Carlisle quite often.
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Yeah, and they never come back :(
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Tyreik Wright going to Salford
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/august/Wright-joins-Salford-City-on-loan/
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On Brad Young's debut for Carlisle:
" ...Head coach Beech was impressed with the way Young wasted no time in going up against the home side’s big and experienced centre-half Leon Legge.
“For someone half his size to go against a 6ft 4in centre half and put a bit on him, and for him [Legge] to go down like that to try to get Brad in the referee’s book…fair play to him [Young]," said Beech after the 0-0 draw.
“I quite like that. If he’s got that about him it will only help us and it will help the team and himself become prominent in the Football League
“I think he’s got a bit of devilment. I think he’s got great movement and an instinct for finishing. I like the way he’s twisting, turning, trying to get his shot off rather than lay it off.
“He’s that dynamic, sharp type striker. He’s well supported at Aston Villa, has been an excellent, top youth goalscorer, and he’ll be playing against some great players [at that level], but young ones.
“It’s because of that devilment that I was interested in him. We’ll see what he can add to us as we go on our journey in this league campaign.”
Young came on in the 78th minute at Vale Park as Beech tried to prompt Carlisle to steal a late winner. "
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Lots of enthusing over a 15 minute cameo! Good to see he's impressing his new coaches.
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Vassilev started and scored his 2nd goal for Inter Miami last night
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Arjan Raikhy to Stockport for the season... The Jedi is all over this, good to see.
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This made me smile about how Young is adapting to life at Carlisle:
“For the first time in his life he’s living away from home too. I actually rang him at 9 o’clock to see how he was.
“He said, ‘Gaffer, I’ve just rung up my mum to see how I turn the oven on, I’m trying to cook myself some fish and noodles…’
“I’m not sure how that tasted or went down, but these are the things young lads have to go through.
“The next day he’s on our team bus going down to Port Vale and makes his debut in front of 5,000 people."
Chris Beech on Young (https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/19524875.carlisle-uniteds-chris-beech-lifts-lid-whirlwind-transfer-aston-villa-striker-brad-young/)
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Tyreik Wright has just scored for Salford vs Newport
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Louie Barry sat on the bench at Ipswich and didn’t get on last Saturday against Wimbledon? What is the point if he's not getting many minutes?
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Louie Barry sat on the bench at Ipswich and didn’t get on last Saturday against Wimbledon? What is the point if he's not getting many minutes?
No point.Bring him home.
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couldn't agree more total waste of time sitting on a bench in Suffolk - he's far too good for that, even at this stage of his development.
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couldn't agree more total waste of time sitting on a bench in Suffolk - he's far too good for that, even at this stage of his development.
To be fair, they were defending a lead for the last half an hour (a lead they ultimately lost in the 95th minute anyway), so I wouldn't have expected to see them introducing another forward from the bench. All three subs were defenders as they tried to hold on.
Like every player, Louie has to earn his place in the side with his current team and manager. Also, Ipswich are currently playing with only one up front, so it's going to be even harder for him to break into the side (unless they play him more as an attacking midfielder). He will get his chance, and it's up to him to take it when it arrives.
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Aston Villa captain joins Northampton Town on loan
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58396749
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Mungo Bridge has joined FC Annecy on loan.
The French third division doesn't strike me as a place he'll really get much high-quality experience, but if the year I spent living down the road from there is anything to go by, he'll have an absolutely lovely time.
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So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at? National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play. Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing mens football etc?
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So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at? National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play. Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing mens football etc?
For the first loan move (as is the case for most of them) I think the level doesn't matter that much it's more getting them playing against experienced players who don't have as much ability as them and will try to bully them. For most youngsters you don't want their first experience of that being in the first team of their home club.
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A point that can be seen with how Cam is kicking on after a season on loan at Solihull Moors, even when he didn't get that many starts after his injury in the second half of the season.
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Agreed. Cam has 'filled out' but not in the Gabby sense.
He has a cracking first touch and boy, can he finish!!
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Something I’ve heard said for years that also makes sense is that a loan at a lower level makes them appreciate the facilities and coaching they get at their home academy and adds to their determination to get back to and succeed at that level.
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not when your arse is glued to a bench. #bringbackbarry
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So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at? National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play. Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing men's football etc?
For the first loan move (as is the case for most of them) I think the level doesn't matter that much it's more getting them playing against experienced players who don't have as much ability as them and will try to bully them. For most youngsters you don't want their first experience of that being in the first team of their home club.
Indeed, you've also got to consider the age of the youngsters going out on loan - 17/18 is still very young. he-who-can't-be-named spent a year at the bottom of league one at 18 and said it was brilliant for his development.
Generally speaking, teenagers don't go on loan to Championship clubs (or higher). Even when we loaned Tuanzebe and Tammy, they were both 21, and Tammy had had two loans already by that point.
I think the only player we have who could have realistically got a loan at a reasonable Championship level was Keinan - given he's played and scored at premier league level. He's shown enough at first-team level to ensure clubs are getting known quantity. Kids with no first-team experience aren't going to get a lot of game time at Championship level unless they've played before.
I hope a few of them light up their sides, and they call come back better, more rounded players. But I fully expect that for a good chunk of them, this won't be their only loan - even if they eventually make the grade with us. By the time they're ready to properly compete for a first-team position, they'll hopefully be competing with players capable of playing European football.
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So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at? National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play. Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing men's football etc?
For the first loan move (as is the case for most of them) I think the level doesn't matter that much it's more getting them playing against experienced players who don't have as much ability as them and will try to bully them. For most youngsters you don't want their first experience of that being in the first team of their home club.
Indeed, you've also got to consider the age of the youngsters going out on loan - 17/18 is still very young. he-who-can't-be-named spent a year at the bottom of league one at 18 and said it was brilliant for his development.
Generally speaking, teenagers don't go on loan to Championship clubs (or higher). Even when we loaned Tuanzebe and Tammy, they were both 21, and Tammy had had two loans already by that point.
I think the only player we have who could have realistically got a loan at a reasonable Championship level was Keinan - given he's played and scored at premier league level. He's shown enough at first-team level to ensure clubs are getting known quantity. Kids with no first-team experience aren't going to get a lot of game time at Championship level unless they've played before.
I hope a few of them light up their sides, and they call come back better, more rounded players. But I fully expect that for a good chunk of them, this won't be their only loan - even if they eventually make the grade with us. By the time they're ready to properly compete for a first-team position, they'll hopefully be competing with players capable of playing European football.
The only bit I disagree with is that JJ Ramsey would've had plenty of offers from the championship if we'd made him available but given we didn't sign anyone in midfield he's now needed for us, and looks ready.
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Chukwuemeka and Philogene-Bidace too possibly?
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Chukwuemeka and Philogene-Bidace too possibly?
Almost certainly but there is a hint of unknown quantity about them still.
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Chukwuemeka and Philogene-Bidace too possibly?
Almost certainly but there is a hint of unknown quantity about them still.
Indeed, young Louie Barry is struggling to get off the bench at a side struggling in League One. If the kids are going to go out on loan, you want them to play. I think it's probably better for their development to play 30+ games at League Two level, than to get half a dozen appearances at Championship level?
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So what do we think about the general level the loanees are going out at? National league, league 2, wherever Bromsgrove play. Are these lads actually not that good, or is the point of these loans just to get them out in a proper competitive environment, playing men's football etc?
For the first loan move (as is the case for most of them) I think the level doesn't matter that much it's more getting them playing against experienced players who don't have as much ability as them and will try to bully them. For most youngsters you don't want their first experience of that being in the first team of their home club.
Indeed, you've also got to consider the age of the youngsters going out on loan - 17/18 is still very young. he-who-can't-be-named spent a year at the bottom of league one at 18 and said it was brilliant for his development.
Generally speaking, teenagers don't go on loan to Championship clubs (or higher). Even when we loaned Tuanzebe and Tammy, they were both 21, and Tammy had had two loans already by that point.
I think the only player we have who could have realistically got a loan at a reasonable Championship level was Keinan - given he's played and scored at premier league level. He's shown enough at first-team level to ensure clubs are getting known quantity. Kids with no first-team experience aren't going to get a lot of game time at Championship level unless they've played before.
I hope a few of them light up their sides, and they call come back better, more rounded players. But I fully expect that for a good chunk of them, this won't be their only loan - even if they eventually make the grade with us. By the time they're ready to properly compete for a first-team position, they'll hopefully be competing with players capable of playing European football.
The only bit I disagree with is that JJ Ramsey would've had plenty of offers from the championship if we'd made him available but given we didn't sign anyone in midfield he's now needed for us, and looks ready.
Yeah, you're right, I hadn't considered him because I guess I now think of him as part of the first-team squad, rather than a player that could do with games for his development. He's been and had his initial taste of action on loan at Doncaster, so I assume now the club don't think he would benefit any more from being on loan than he would by training with us an established first-team squad member?
But I definitely agree there would have been Championship-level suitors had be been made available.
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We need an unofficial feeder club for players in the talented U-18's/not so talented over 18's bracket. Preferably smallish Div'1 level club, can take 4 loans from us per season so they have that level of experience behind them at least., Give 'em a friendly each year, general exchange of ideas, offer them Davis to improve their injury/physio set-up, that sort of thing.
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We need an unofficial feeder club for players in the talented U-18's/not so talented over 18's bracket. Preferably smallish Div'1 level club, can take 4 loans from us per season so they have that level of experience behind them at least., Give 'em a friendly each year, general exchange of ideas, offer them Davis to improve their injury/physio set-up, that sort of thing.
I’ve long thought that this would be a good idea. Also a good place to test out coaches/scouts/physios etc. The club in question could lose a chunk of it’s identity so I’m not sure how keen they’d be.
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What is the point of loaning out players if they are not getting games
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As Percy has said above, they get to see the other side of professional football. The picky little changing rooms, the rough training pitches etc. Also they are away from home/ their natural surroundings which, hopefully, gives them a better grounding in life. If they have the enthusiasm and backbone for this they will come back to Bodymoor Heath a far more rounded person and determined to show the coaching staff that they can make it at this level.
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Fair enough and maybe that goes someway in explaining why so many do not go on to be top players.
I bet some (not necessarily ours) turn up all Billy big bollocks if they have come from Premier team as imagine some of the kids from United, City and Chelsea would be on bigger wages than some of the senior pros at league 1 etc. Which if they have an attitude to match would not bode well
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Fair enough and maybe that goes someway in explaining why so many do not go on to be top players.
I bet some (not necessarily ours) turn up all Billy big bollocks if they have come from Premier team as imagine some of the kids from United, City and Chelsea would be on bigger wages than some of the senior pros at league 1 etc. Which if they have an attitude to match would not bode well
Part of it is the change in attitude from coaches. At youth level a lot of the focus will be on building confidence and technical ability, even if it can be quite cut throat. On loan the expectation is for you to be good enough to play and help teams win games, that's a pretty big change and is at the heart of why so many kids that look to have all the talent they need fail because they struggle to adapt to the responsibility of needing to deliver.
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It's all about maximising revenue and ensuring they get careers to my mind. The vast vast majority will not be good enough at this level, even the ones we keep into their early 20's, but a lot of them could have careers further down the pyramid if they get the opportunities. Sending 4 of them to a Div1 team each summer as part of an arrangement would at least get them noticed at that level and pick up a few transfer fees, and if they're out of their depth, they send them back, no hard feelings. A couple may even become star performers at that level and may attract bids instead of being eventually released and picked up on frees. And of course we can keep them if they make vast improvements. We've just sent Mungo Bridge out on loan to a French 3rd division club. Now I have no idea if he's rated (I make a point not to follow the youth too closely nowadays) but he's 21 this week and while he will get some benefit i'm not sure the sort of clubs looking at him will be sending scouts to monitor him or that's the level where he should be playing at 21. Having said that, it's probably better than staying in the youth team. With the greatest respect to our coaches, at 21 you're probably going to learn far more as a defender by being left for dead by a Div1 journeyman forward than any sort of coaching
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Nice little goal from Seb Revan today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/58940358
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Brad Young and Dominic Revan have come back from their loans, following Louie Barry and Arjan Raikhy's returns.
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Looks like Brad was playing reasonably regularly so can only assume Gerrard wants to have a look at them.
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Their new manager couldn't promise him game time.
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Aaron Ramsey off to Cheltenham until the end of the season according to their local press.
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Aaron Ramsey off to Cheltenham until the end of the season according to their local press.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-midfielder-set-join-6465162