Champions League restructuring

[cdbearsfan]

Also, why do they need to scrap the League cup? Why not just opt out of it or play an U23 team so that their kids get experience of senior football. If we were a CL team, I would want to see the latter for us. I don't see why non CL teams should miss out on the chance of a cup final and silverware.

They had better not be doing away with the idea of having to qualify for it either.

If we were good enough to be a Champions League team, we would be good enough to have a decent chance of winning trophies. I wouldn't want to see us taking the piss with one of them, especially one that has probably given us more great moments than any other competition over the past sixty years.

If you reduce the League Cup to an under-23 competition or allow teams to opt out it instantly ceases being a major trophy and reduces the number of major trophies that many teams can feasibly win by 50%. A terrible idea.

There is no reason to reduce or remove the League Cup. Teams can still take part in it while having more European games... exactly as they used to in the early 2000s.

[SaddVillan]

Let's face it, they don't care about the other clubs or the league for that matter - all they're botheted about is hoovering up as much money as they can whilst at the same time establishing a virtual cartel when it comes to playing in the Chumps Leahue.

Why don't the other 14 Prem clubs -  a voting majority according to Prem rules  - vote to throw them out?

Would Arsenal and Spurs leave, knowing that with Man U, Pool, Chelsea and City out of the way, their chances of winning would be greatly improved?

The Prem is a members club. A sufficient majority can set whatever rules they want.
Throw them out I say.

They'd wither on the vine of an ESL.
In 2018-19 (last "full season") their league home games generated:
Man U  £110m
Chelsea £67m
Pool £84m
City £56m
Arsenal £96m
Spurs £82m - Spurs has now really increased with the new stadium

Then we can add on prize money and tv money.
Could they recoup that playing in an enlarged ESL?

Think not.

Call their bluff I say.

[ChicagoLion]

i am with you Sadd, the 14 would be nuts to let them do this.

[aj2k77]

I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?

I think it is one division of 36... but each team plays ten games. Presumably against ten diferent teams, five at home five away. Based on some seeding formula but I confess not to really understand. They seem to have added a playoff round, too.

So I would guess the best 12 go through automatically, the next eight go into a playoff round. Maybe the four or eight below that would go straight into the Europa League or into another playoff round for that.

All seems a bit Numberwang! at the moment.

So a division where everyone plays a different set of opponents? That's laughably bad.

[cdbearsfan]

Agreed.

[aj2k77]

On that basis I'd assume you would have to play 3 top rank teams, 3 middle rank teams and 3 lower rank teams. Firstly rankings are subjective. Secondly from one season to the next sides abilities can alter dramatically.

Say for instance we applied that ranking to 9 random opponents for us this season based on last seasons standings. We could have ended up with a fixture list of:

Liverpool, Leicester, Tottenham, Sheff Utd, Burnley, Newcastle, West Brom, Brighton, Fulham.

Whilst someone else could get

Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Wolves, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds, West Ham, Crystal Palace.

What a load of bollocks.

[olaftab]

******

[algy]

I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?

I think it is one division of 36... but each team plays ten games. Presumably against ten diferent teams, five at home five away. Based on some seeding formula but I confess not to really understand. They seem to have added a playoff round, too.

So I would guess the best 12 go through automatically, the next eight go into a playoff round. Maybe the four or eight below that would go straight into the Europa League or into another playoff round for that.

All seems a bit Numberwang! at the moment.

So a division where everyone plays a different set of opponents? That's laughably bad.

Basically you do a free/unseeded draw for the first set of games. After that, you draw up a league table, then it's 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, 5th v 6th, ..., 35th v 36th. They play eachother, you do the table again, then its 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, ... you get the picture. On paper you should end up playing mainly teams around your own ability, particularly when you get past the third round of matches.

If done properly it should work out like a straight knockout, so 32 teams = 5 rounds, and the winner should have won all 5 matches. It just gives you a seeding/league table for every other position.

To qualify in the format they've said you'd need roughly 4 wins and a draw from 10 games. So you'd probably start seeing the first pointless games around round 6, and by round 8 or 9 most games will be a bit pointless.

The thing with a swiss system, particularly if you play too many rounds (which they are proposing), is that the middle of the table is *very* variable. You do find a few teams quite out of the right league position based purely on luck (or having played the system*).



* edit: basically because your fixtures are decided by your league position, you get generally easier fixtures if you lose an early match (first 2 or 3 rounds) by a big score, and only win by small scores. It prevents you from finishing top, but that's not really a concern if it's only a qualifying group.

[Dante Lavelli]

Does the league split into a knock out once the league games are completed, so top X teams into the European cup and bottom X into the UEFA cup?
There’ll be shit loads of dead rubber games otherwise.

Apologies for not reading the proposals by the way.

I kinda like the idea if that is the case.  It means the top 7 or 8 teams qualify for the Daddy Cup, dragging the likes of us in to the mix, and provides the insurance that the Top 4 clubs seemingly demand.

[cdbearsfan]

I am commenting without seeing the plans though and just going off a division of 10 idea, is that what they are going with?

I think it is one division of 36... but each team plays ten games. Presumably against ten diferent teams, five at home five away. Based on some seeding formula but I confess not to really understand. They seem to have added a playoff round, too.

So I would guess the best 12 go through automatically, the next eight go into a playoff round. Maybe the four or eight below that would go straight into the Europa League or into another playoff round for that.

All seems a bit Numberwang! at the moment.

So a division where everyone plays a different set of opponents? That's laughably bad.

Basically you do a free/unseeded draw for the first set of games. After that, you draw up a league table, then it's 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, 5th v 6th, ..., 35th v 36th. They play eachother, you do the table again, then its 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th, ... you get the picture. On paper you should end up playing mainly teams around your own ability, particularly when you get past the third round of matches.

If done properly it should work out like a straight knockout, so 32 teams = 5 rounds, and the winner should have won all 5 matches. It just gives you a seeding/league table for every other position.

To qualify in the format they've said you'd need roughly 4 wins and a draw from 10 games. So you'd probably start seeing the first pointless games around round 6, and by round 8 or 9 most games will be a bit pointless.

The thing with a swiss system, particularly if you play too many rounds (which they are proposing), is that the middle of the table is *very* variable. You do find a few teams quite out of the right league position based purely on luck (or having played the system*).



* edit: basically because your fixtures are decided by your league position, you get generally easier fixtures if you lose an early match (first 2 or 3 rounds) by a big score, and only win by small scores. It prevents you from finishing top, but that's not really a concern if it's only a qualifying group.

That sounds insane. Doesn't that also mean you would have no idea who you were playing until two or maybe even one week in advance? That'll be great for away fans, I'm sure. It's almost like the paying fans aren't their main concern.

[Rory]

Is it just me, or does this seem like a negotiating position? The proposals sound like the most boring wank imaginable, like a Harlem Globetrotters publicity tour. So they're bargaining for something else. Perhaps the concept that certain clubs automatically qualify for CL? That's the most plausible element to me.

[ChicagoLion]

Is it just me, or does this seem like a negotiating position? The proposals sound like the most boring wank imaginable, like a Harlem Globetrotters publicity tour. So they're bargaining for something else. Perhaps the concept that certain clubs automatically qualify for CL? That's the most plausible element to me.

There are 2 major objectives.
1. Get as much cash into the elite clubs as possible.
2. Make the gravy train for said elite clubs perpetual.

[ktvillan]

Is it just me, or does this seem like a negotiating position? The proposals sound like the most boring wank imaginable, like a Harlem Globetrotters publicity tour. So they're bargaining for something else. Perhaps the concept that certain clubs automatically qualify for CL? That's the most plausible element to me.

There are 2 major objectives.
1. Get as much cash into the elite clubs as possible.
2. Make the gravy train for said elite clubs perpetual.

Football reflecting society again - sounds like a tory manifesto when read between the lines.

[Hillbilly]

The thing about stopping transfers between the big clubs is weird. I'm pretty certain that would be restraint of trade (within the EU at least). Either I'm wrong, or they didn't take legal advice which would be stupid, or they ignored legal advice and threw it out there because they are not serious and are just manoeuvring.

[ChicagoLion]

The thing about stopping transfers between the big clubs is weird. I'm pretty certain that would be restraint of trade (within the EU at least). Either I'm wrong, or they didn't take legal advice which would be stupid, or they ignored legal advice and threw it out there because they are not serious and are just manoeuvring.

I would also suggested that unfair competition would apply.

Good to see Purslow has come out against it