Watford v Aston Villa post match thread

[Clampy]

I understood the need for team changes yesterday but picking Lansbury (who was totally anonymous up at Sheff Utd) and persisting with Wesley again was a mistake. The latter might cost him his job and the fans patience.

[itmustbe_it is!]

the goals are always so soft. Deeney scuffs it and Heaton and Hause both fail to keep it out. luiz dives in when there's no need and two free players at the back post when we've a man advantage.

Frankly it's amateur and Smith needs to go

I didn’t think there was anything wrong really with the goals,
Certainly not for either of the second and third to be disallowed.

The first one was a bit unlucky, cracking save from Heaton, then Deeney does well to get the rebound on target from a tight angle, but scuffs it and I think Heaton was maybe expecting it to go a bit higher and dives over it. Hause I think would’ve been a bit unsighted but Heaton and also probably wasn’t expecting it to go under the keeper.

2nd wasn’t a nailed on penalty, but it was a shove in the ribs rather than a shoulder charge and the defender can’t complain too much about it being given. The ref blew straightaway.

The third I thought was quick thinking and reaction from yet another incidence of us giving the ball away in dangerous areas. They reacted quicker and it was a great finish.

The shit ball retention set the tone early on, we just couldn’t keep it at all  and after the first went in, a spanking I feared.

Not sure who the match commentators were in UK, but Andy Thownsend was co-commentator on Optus Sport in Aus. He was trying to be fair to both sides, had some pretty fair criticism of Villa. Seems he still has affection for the club.

The end result of the first was unlucky, but it came about because Elmo was like a statue and stood and watched Deeney run to get on the end of it. Its a pattern though, how often do we see an opposition forward or midfielder bust a gut to get in the box, no-one tracks them and then surprise surprise they're on hand to grab a "lucky" tap in.

If I was taking training today, my message would be we're in a bloody scrap and I only want you in the team if you are willing to shed blood sweat and tears for the shirt. Do that, show some stomach for the fight, work hard and get stuck in and we , the fans, will be happy. At the moment we're going down without a whimper . Whinging about decisions and fouls, how about we make the opposition scared to foul Jack? Keep your hands down but get in their face, look like you care.

I know I sound like Smithy in that Comic Relief sketch, but honestly, that's what they need. Show some f**king bollocks !!!!!

[flybo]

Asking for Smith to be gone is short sited.  We know it was going to be a relegation battle from the start of the season. Changing managers will not change that. Lets see what happens in the transfer window.

[LukeJames]

I appreciate too much can be made of social media but after every game this season, win, lose or draw, the players have always posted something. Even if its just thanks for the support etc. Still nothing after yesterdays game.

Probably looking too deep into a nothing situation but I find it slightly odd.

[OzVilla]

Just realised that. Maybe Jack‘a just had enough of writing  “Not good enough today but on to ‘insert next opponents”. Nothing from Konsa, Hause, Jota etc though either.

[aj2k77]

Good. I don't give a fuck about their ''insta'' comments. The entire lot of them need to do some soul searching because the effort has not been there the last month. Compare and contrast the workrate from a 10 man Watford team flooding forwards to bury us yesterday with our lot trudging back being swamped, not even the basic minimum of running backwards with all your energy to defefnd. They gave up and not for the first time. They need to take a look at themselves aswell.

It's not just Smith's fault for repeatedly picking Emile Wesley.

[robbo1874]

Just realised that. Maybe Jack‘a just had enough of writing  “Not good enough today but on to ‘insert next opponents”. Nothing from Konsa, Hause, Jota etc though either.

Jack looked frustrated yesterday to me and I suspect it contributed to his poor discipline, especially towards the end of the match. Whether the frustration was down to others not putting in a shift, towards Smith’s lack of tactical creativity, or maybe Deeney winding him up, I don’t know. As far as the players are concerned it seems a pretty clear choice: either pull together, dig deep and try and turn things round, or cruise until the manager gets fired and try and impress the next manager. I’d love to think it was just an off day for players and management, but it doesn’t seem that way. Next couple of games will likely tell us.

[Abbeyfealeavfc]

I was sat in the lower Graham Taylor stand for this.
I was baffled by the team selection for this and even more baffled by how we were set up with Lansbury playing off Wes.
Who thought it was a good idea to match-up Luiz with the cnut that is deeney at deadball situations like corners? Terry?
Where I was sat gave me a great view of Jack for the whole of the second half. His performance at best was abject. I know he's being played out of position and he's carrying the team, but he is our talisman and captain. It's arguable that 2 mistakes by Jack led to their 2nd half goals, that other players on here would be scapegoated for. He's not beyond reproach and he's certainly not untouchable otherwise we are a mirror image of our relegation team, in which there were a number of players who thought they were untouchable. The mistakes weren't what really annoyed me though. He allowed his head to drop and he became ill-disciplined. He hadn't a clue as to how to gee up his team. For their pen, he stood on the half-way line ready for the re-take. There was no communication with his team mates and no psyching out of their pen taker. He had given up. On another occasion when their player was down injured in their box, Kodjia was approaching Jack but was completely blanked by him. Kodj continued to walk on by and said something to another Villa player and Jack took himself further away to the touchline where he stood so he didn't have to communicate with anyone. There was no fist pumping, no encouragement, there was nothing from our captain. Jack is by far our best player and the captaincy is great when things are going well, but maybe the weight of the captaincy is too much for him when things are going badly.
Based on what I saw I would be very surprised if all was not well in the changing room.
Finally Watford fans are a pathetic bunch who need a mascot dressed up as a hornet banging a drum to get them going!

[john2710]

We get caught time after time taking too long on the ball, giving away possession in the wrong areas of the pitch. It happened with Konsa yesterday, Marvellous, Luis, Guilbert, Mings previously.

Watch Luis & Marvellous racing around midfield looking to see where they're meant to be but not actually marking anyone.

The lack of coaching, intensity & experience at this level is what's killing us.

We're in a fight for survival without any fighters in the team.

[Risso]

Lansbury is everything I dislike in a player, good whack of talent and wastes most of it.

As I may have mentioned before, I met one of his old games teachers at a school near here last year.  He didn't use the exact words obviously, but "talented but a massive ponce" was basically his opinion.

[Risso]

I understood the need for team changes yesterday but picking Lansbury (who was totally anonymous up at Sheff Utd) and persisting with Wesley again was a mistake. The latter might cost him his job and the fans patience.

It was complete madness.

We're conceding twenty shots a game and two goals on our travels, so he needs to be making our midfield as tight as he possibly can.  So what does he do?  Picks our most powder puff player in the middle of it.  When Mings is back, I'd stick Hause at left back and Konsa as defensive midfield away from home.

[Clampy]

And Jota out wide was stupid. He's not winger, he doesn't even resemble a winger. Play him behind the striker and you'd see a more effective player. Bearing in mind Smith has worked with him before, you'd think he would know that.

[ChicagoLion]

I understood the need for team changes yesterday but picking Lansbury (who was totally anonymous up at Sheff Utd) and persisting with Wesley again was a mistake. The latter might cost him his job and the fans patience.

It was complete madness.

We're conceding twenty shots a game and two goals on our travels, so he needs to be making our midfield as tight as he possibly can.  So what does he do?  Picks our most powder puff player in the middle of it.  When Mings is back, I'd stick Hause at left back and Konsa as defensive midfield away from home.

exactly what I suggested, the failure to address the openness of our midfield is worse than persisting with Wes up front.
It’s killing us every away game.
I also agree about Jota.

[Ads]

Wesley missing that sitter really hurt us. Goals change games and the past few games, including Southampton, we've had the first chance, its fallen to Wesley and he's fluffed it.

The other issue is an absence of pace to get on the shoulders of full backs or centre halves. El Ghazi is probably our fastest player or Guilbert and both have been dropped.

Thirdly, we've lost all semblance of structure. I enjoy the tactical side of the game and picking out patterns of play. Watford for example were all about by passing the midfield in the first phase. A long ball to the wide men and picking up territory to cross, with Hughes et al trying to scoop up scraps on the 2nd phase if the ball was recycled, but crucially only 20-30 yards from goal. It was largely ineffective, until we gave away the softest of goals, but it was a plan.

I don't know what ours is anymore. I cannot fathom how we play. There's no method of how we approach, save Elmo is perhaps asked to hit the early cross. But we're too ponderous in moving the game on, players hide away from risk. Nobody commits, save Jack and his presence allows others to shirk taking responsibility. It also does not help that we have nobody up front.

Off the ball, we become ragged too often as we've suddenly fogot how to retain it. Our press is too loose and uncoordinated and we lack an out ball...as we have no pace and nobody up front.

We're carrying players not good enough for this division and players too inexperienced for it, that they're inconsistent. Jota, Lansbury and Elmo are in the first category, El Ghazi, Konsa, Hause, Hourihane the latter. That's not exhaustive.

The manager is also naive. We need to avoid defeat on the road and that means sometimes being ugly out of design rather than haphazard selection or jumbled tactics.

We're more than capable of staying up, especially with such a small gap (1 point) and a window to add quality. But these structural issues are bewildering.

I wonder if we're streaky. Last season we collapsed into dire form. We bizarrely won 1-0 last Boxing Day away at Swansea where the first 45 minutes was absolutely, utterly, diabolical and we generally stank the place out in a woeful 6 or 7 week run.

Then we, the away following, did something very un-Villa like and actually blindly got behind our lot and roared them off at Stoke and Sweet Carolined them back on. A different second half and a game we ought to have won.

I cannot square the circle of a performance like Man United away, outclassed yet dogged at Chelsea, to everything that's followed. There's been a mental disconnect.

We need to be going to Burnley and putting in the most mind numbing, dreary and pragmatic performance possible. We must avoid defeat. I have ideas on selection, but that's for another thread. Lose and it will probably be it for Smith.

[ChicagoLion]

Good post Ads.