Has it gone too far?

[OzVilla]

The point Bielsa made yesterday, about Grealish's assailant being more a product of a deeper frustration than an illustration of a football culture, has some wider relevance here. There has been precious little for Blues to crow about in recent years, not just in comparison to us either. They had their little top division adventure and won a cup, and that was supposed to be the starting point for the swing in their favour. But it stalled, they've sunk back into mediocrity and financial chaos, and now their fans need somebody to kick out at. We're it - even in our dark days we still look like we'll sort it out quicker than them.

If I was thinking of a way to stop it, the main solution would be to stop acting the underdog. All this "proper Brummies" nonsense which is promoted at a management level. Stop comparing yourself to the other and start acting like a separate entity. Give the supporters something else to concentrate on. Easier said than done, I suppose.

The proper brummies stuff is risible.

We are the second city (still) and anyone that has any pride in that should realise the city is capable of having more than one team.

Does anyone know if the redscouse wind up the bluescouse with that "nameofthecity" bollocks? And where does that leave London? TBH I think they only use it as a wind up because they know they lied and cheated to get it supposedly which shows up the club over 80 years of "getting one over the Vile".

Didnt the porno twins shoe horn the word London on the West Hams badge somewhere?

[PeterWithesShin]

Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.

[phantom limb]

I’d be happy if we just never had to play them again.

[Somniloquism]

Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.

TBF both of the oppo teams did / do attract a massive amount of glory hunters with Everton and Citeh being mostly "local". However the latter with the money and success would be really hypocritcal to continue to use that jibe.

Our neighbours seem to think if you don't live 5 miles from the ground you are a glory hunter and don't come from the city even though I have never really heard of a Manc Claret or Cockney Villa.

[LeeB]

Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.

Man, you are going out of your way to wind up the resident Clyde fan.

[kippaxvilla2]

Just have the game at 3 on a Saturday.  Take the mystique out of it, stop allowing sky to blow it up out of all proportion, ban the clockbait websites a week before the game, take Twitter down for two weeks before the game and you might just have a chance of taking the heat out of it.

[PeterWithesShin]

Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.

Man, you are going out of your way to wind up the resident Clyde fan.

*whistles innocently*

I love you really CD!! 

[KevinGage]

If your club hasn't got a pot to piss in, there's no realistic prospect of promotion any time soon and the chance of silverware virtually nil then we're all they've got.  And when we get promoted they won't even have that.  But it's not all one way: we do go on about them a lot.  The Blues thread in Other Football must be one of the longest threads on this website; I know it's 10 years old but still.

I really would like to see that thread liquidated.

And the Rags back in the third tier with no prospect of our paths crossing again any time soon.

[cdward]

As the FA said, a line has been crossed. But it has been building up to it for years. .  The Enckleman incident, the pitch invasion and flares, etc',  plus the fact they now go into every game against us expecting to lose.
We have supporters who hate this game, imagine how they feel. Even when we have been at our lowest in years we still beat them. 2 weeks ago we all expected to lose this game, they must have thought it was their time.
It eats them up inside, this coupled with the fact that they have a reputation for hooliganism and the fans like to live up to it. How many other teams fans would wear a symbol sewed on to a jacket. Its all they have, they revel in the fact they top the arrests league.
They feel they have to continue being hooligans to save face.
I'm not sure they will ever change, it's in their mindset to hate us, with their constant SOTV sign offs, it is like they are trying to prove how big a fan they are by demonstrating how much they hate us.
I

[Weedy]

According to the DM:
"Birmingham's Second City derby with Aston Villa has become a clash of hooligans, hammers and bottles"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6796871/Birmingham-vs-Aston-Villa-derby-hooligans-hammers-bottles.html

Read the last paragraph if you don't have time to read all of it.

[PeterWithesShin]

I've taken one for you all so as you don't have to click the link

Derby clashes between Birmingham City and Aston Villa last season were marred by four pitch invasions by individual fans, police reports obtained by Sportsmail reveal.

As such, the attack on Aston Villa captain Jack Grealish by Birmingham fan Paul Mitchell should not have come as any great surprise to the clubs or the authorities.

Trouble at England's traditional derby matches has been on the rise, with police reports obtained through a Freedom of Information request by Sportsmail exposing a shocking catalogue of hooliganism.

Clashes between Birmingham and Villa fans were among the most violent. In October 2017, travelling Villa fans were 'picked off all over the place' following their match at Birmingham.

West Midlands Police's debrief also revealed that masked Birmingham fans attacked officers with metal brackets, scaffold poles, breeze blocks and glasses. One smashed a police carrier with a claw hammer. After a post-match probe, police made 44 further arrests.

When the teams met at Villa Park in February last year there were five arrests and 17 ejections from the stadium.

Details published for the first time on Tuesday reveal that the first sign of trouble came when a group of Birmingham fans identified as 'risk' groups 'attempted to board Aston-bound trains' for home fans, only to be thwarted by police spotters.

At the ground three fans were ejected for vandalising a toilet, while another was arrested after a 'steward was assaulted' in Holte Lower. The report said fans in the 'Holte Lower chose to stand despite repeated requests for them to desist', while ejections from the ground continued.

A second-half Villa goal saw a fan enter the field of play from 'the North Stand area'. He was detained before he reached the pitch and arrested. Two stewards were injured during the incident, one with a cut to the head, the other hurting a knee.

Two more home fans were arrested for entering the pitch side, but none got close to players or the away support. Another fan was arrested for throwing missiles at Birmingham fans.

After the game, 'baton strikes and strong verbal commands' were employed to keep rivals fans apart in the city. Punches and bottles were thrown.

When the two teams met at St Andrew's in October 2017, the problems were even more serious. Officers no doubt hoped the arrest of nine Villa fans the week before, for incidents around the Cardiff match, would ease the situation.

It began with verbal altercations on Coventry Road, with a mixture of 'risk groups' from Birmingham involved, and a fan was arrested by a coach park used by Villa supporters.

Birmingham placed 20,000 cardboard clappers on seats. 'These were thrown at every available opportunity during the game,' the report added. 'Every AVFC corner, free-kick and goal-kick saw numerous missiles thrown at the Villa player. These included plastic beer bottles, coins and clapper boards'.

The referee and the fourth official 'stopped the game on more than one occasion', with 'Villa players and the linesman all struck with various missiles'.

Coins were thrown between fans while 30 seats were broken in the away end, and at the final whistle a Birmingham fan 'ran the length of the pitch' before being arrested.

After the game the trouble escalated. A blue smoke bomb was let off and officers were peppered with coins. They also had 'bottles, glasses and bricks' thrown at them as they tried to disperse Birmingham fans near the coach park, with one spotter struck in the face in an incident that lasted 20 minutes.

With Villa fans still locked inside the stadium, police spotters were then confronted by 'masked males' throwing missiles at them, with metal brackets, scaffold poles, breeze blocks and glasses thrown. Officers deployed long shields to protect themselves, while the windscreen of a police carrier was 'smashed with a claw hammer'.

Villa fans were held in the ground for 90 minutes but officers reported that they were 'getting picked off all over the place' while returning to the city. The behaviour of Villa fans was described as 'exemplary'; Birmingham fans were 'exceedingly poor' - 'When they couldn't get to Villa fans they were all too happy to attack police officers using a very high level of force'.

[Ads]

I'd say no. The pitch invasion was an isolated incident, but this has always been a powder keg fixture. The police do a very good job.

If you happen to read their forum you'll notice their mentality though. It's anti-Villa first, wrapped in a very fragile machismo. They're the biggest and meanest and everybody hates them. At least that's why they try and convince themselves every 5 minutes.

They have a thread now about the disorder I saw and strolled through on Fazely Street. Their machismo was challenged by 20-30 Vile on their patch...but now it's 20-30 Vile giving it to kids and women and children and orphans.

Reality is the only children being intimidated was a big Nose with his visibly distressed teenage daughter, who had to push his way passed some goon giving it the big one with his teenage kids.

The absolute shit house pushed the bloke and offered the guy out. This is the mentality you're dealing with.



There you have it. 4 women and children dressed as 30 scruffy middle aged men and scrotes in moody gear, all convinced they're in the Peaky Blinders.

So because they've had their machismo undermined by da Vile, their identity is threatened. So they become defensive by myth making.

It litters their thinking. Violent disorder that goes against them spun to protect their image. But they propagate it through other means; chief being that they're special as they have the cities name (so what), they're proper Brummies (even those from Worcester), they're working class tough guys as a consequence. When you're so utterly inferior on the pitch, it's all they have.

[OzVilla]

If you look on twitter its unbelievable some the stuff they come out with. Some of them are so bitter and have bought into the rubbish they spout about proper Brummies, name of the city, we all live in the shires, the Villa are just as bad etc etc that it's now become part of the belief system of some Blues fans. 

It's like those Isis fighters that are surrendering in Syria where we dont know what to do with them.  It's a similar mentality of hatred just this time it's about a football club.

[Villan For Life]

It has gone too far and something does need to be done but their hatred of all things Villa is too deeply ingrained for it to change anytime soon.

I know Noses that end texts with KRO SOTV and although they never go anywhere near the Sty they give it large whenever they see a Villa fan or anything to do with Villa.

My parents live near their training ground and there is a pretty horrible pub really close to it. One Saturday last season they were at home with a 3pm kick off and I took my mom and dad’s dog for a walk past the pub at around 3.30pm. There were about eight forty-something of them outside the pub all in blues shirts having a smoke and a drink whilst their team is playing at home about 6 miles away. They saw me in my Villa hoody and started to dish it out about me and Villa. It was pathetic, they looked ridiculous. Eight or so of them all old enough to know better shouting abuse at a bloke a few years older than them, I’m in my early 50’s. I just smiled at them, laughed and carried on walking the dog. I wasn’t intimidated at all, it was a laughable situation but I’m sure some would have been. Typical Noses giving out abuse on a match day from the safety of a crowd of mates none of whom had any intention of visiting the Sty that day.

So what do we do about it? We should ignore them and not feed their obsession any more. We should drop that SOTC song because it really does drop us to their level and we should rise above the vitriol because we are better than that. I’d rather hear songs that back the team anyway, not one that is against our rivals. I’d even lock the “gift that is still giving” thread on here. Let’s stop giving them the oxygen that feeds their obsession with us. Let’s keep all threads about Blues restricted to pre and post match threads plus any specifics such as the inevitable punishment that will come their way after Sunday. Now we have played them twice this season I don’t really think about them, they don’t define us in the way that we define them. We are Aston Villa.

It’s football, yes we love our club but we should take a stance against them and their ways. Some of our own supporters will need to tone it down next time we play them, but we support Aston Villa, we are better than that and should rise above it.

[Percy McCarthy]

Villa dominate their club from top to bottom, until that changes I don't think much else will. Should be added that there's a fair few of ours now that seemed obsessed with them as well.

Yes, agree, let's be honest, it isn't all one way.

I do think too many sink to their level. And the amount of "Just been on their forums...." posts definitely doesn't help us have any moral high ground.

However their club definitely needs to have a look at itself from top to bottom. How many of our new players are told you must hate the blues? How many of our owners come in and state the aim is to finish above the bluenoses or lets get a better stadium then them or other such statements? How many of our club supporting journalists will tweet crap like "lets drop a weight on Grealish foot and break his toe" and then give a thumbs up to a fans follow up of "it is better dropped on his head"?

I can only really remember Olaf stating much about them and that was because he played in some of the matches and realised the hatred their fans were spewing.

Who tweeted that about Grealish?