Tyrone Mings - signed permanently and confirmed as even more awesome

[Monty]

I think if people want to boo they should. They prove the necessity of the gesture they're abusing by doing so. Like I said elsewhere, the knee was diffusing a bit in lockdown; the return of fans has re-emphasised why it's legitimate.

[paul_e]

Surely we still live in some sort of a democracy and people who oppose taking the knee are free to express that view. As some French geezer said, I don't agree with your opinion, butI defend to the death your right to express it. Or some shit similar to that.

People are free to do lots of things but what is often missed is that other people are free to respond to it. If someone chooses to boo players taking the knee then they have to accept that other people will criticise them for it. This isn't about banning people from booing it's about making them realise how much of an arsehole it makes them look, especially when it's one of their own players who they'd happily celebrate with if he scores a goal, etc.


EDITED - also don't justify booing by pretending it stands for something other than the reason the players have given repeatedly.

[Monty]

It's well said, by Mill and others, that the right to speak is also the right of others to listen. I have the right to know that there are bellends about who think what they do about the knee, and to respond in my own way, as Tyrone and the others have the right to respond in their own ways.

There is a lot of the 'freedom of speech' rightwing which seems to think it means 'freedom from criticism' - which is itself an anti-free speech idea. We could do without this confusion.

[paul_e]

It's well said, by Mill and others, that the right to speak is also the right of others to listen. I have the right to know that there are bellends about who think what they do about the knee, and to respond in my own way, as Tyrone and the others have the right to respond in their own ways.

There is a lot of the 'freedom of speech' rightwing which seems to think it means 'freedom from criticism' - which is itself an anti-free speech idea. We could do without this confusion.

The entire basis of the alt right free speech gang is that they shouldn't have their views questioned, that's why I see them as the most 'snowflake-y' group of all. "I want to have my opinions heard but I can't cope with having anyone point out why they disagree".

It's not just freedom from criticism though, it's also freedom from responsibility. Take Trump as the ultimate example, the capitol riots were a direct result of him (and his lackeys) taking no regard for the consequences of what he was saying and then trying to evade responsibility for it through semantics by saying they never actually told anyone to do it.

On top of that they never apply the same logic in reverse, you never see these people defending the rights of their opposition to say whatever they like without consequence, in fact as soon as anyone on the left says anything the right don't like they're up in arms about it (about 90% of what Ilhan Omar says works as a perfect example here). I wish these people would just be honest and admit that they have prejudices and don't like having them questioned, it would make the conversation much simpler rather than them hiding behind bullshit excuses and mock outrage.

[Risso]

I think if people want to boo they should. They prove the necessity of the gesture they're abusing by doing so. Like I said elsewhere, the knee was diffusing a bit in lockdown; the return of fans has re-emphasised why it's legitimate.

That's my opinion as well Monty. Before the booing, it had started to be just something else that players did before the game kicked off, like shaking hands with the ref and deciding which end to attack first. Now if anything, the booing has made it very relevant again.

I was at the last match of the season against Chelsea. At first I was a bit dumbstruck by the booing and in my naivety thought that it might have been fans having a go at Mason Mount over all the Southgate nonsense. Then the reality hit me, and I really couldn't believe it. To be lucky enough to be at a game that a lot of people missed out on, and to be seeing the players live for the first time in an age, and THEN to decide what they really want to do to do to support the team is to boo over something they've at best totally misunderstood is just mind boggling.

[mr underhill]

how do you know that? People are entitled to their view, irrespective of the way you personally feel about it. I half expected you to say they all supported Brexit too.

[Villan82]

It's well said, by Mill and others, that the right to speak is also the right of others to listen. I have the right to know that there are bellends about who think what they do about the knee, and to respond in my own way, as Tyrone and the others have the right to respond in their own ways.

There is a lot of the 'freedom of speech' rightwing which seems to think it means 'freedom from criticism' - which is itself an anti-free speech idea. We could do without this confusion.

The entire basis of the alt right free speech gang is that they shouldn't have their views questioned, that's why I see them as the most 'snowflake-y' group of all. "I want to have my opinions heard but I can't cope with having anyone point out why they disagree".

To be honest, I see it as an attack on 'political correctness' which, now that you see how far the American and British far right have been willing to go since the earthquakes of 2016, should be translated as 'I don't like political correctness because it makes my own ignorant and prejudiced views taboo and socially unacceptable'.

[paul_e]

how do you know that? People are entitled to their view, irrespective of the way you personally feel about it. I half expected you to say they all supported Brexit too.

Who are you actually replying to here?

[Monty]

There's politically incorrect and there's plain rudeness, and then there's just being a massive bigoted twat.

[Drummond]

Surely if your intention for booing is with good intention, you'll realise when the vast majority of people think what you're doing is wrong and stop.

[Smithy]

how do you know that? People are entitled to their view, irrespective of the way you personally feel about it. I half expected you to say they all supported Brexit too.

There are only two reasons to boo taking the knee.  Either, you've misunderstood why the players are doing it, and are booing for some hallucinated reason of your own making.  Or, you understand perfectly why they're kneeling, and just don't like people showing support for victims of racism.

I don't think either of those reasons reflects particularly well on the booer, and are open to criticism, but I can more easily forgive the first one, which likely comes down to how they get their 'news'.

[Toronto Villa]

If you boo it’s a conscious decision. You are very specifically marking your territory and clearly indicating your prejudice. Because the alternative and safe middle ground is to do nothing at all.

[LeeB]

how do you know that? People are entitled to their view, irrespective of the way you personally feel about it. I half expected you to say they all supported Brexit too.

There are only two reasons to boo taking the knee.  Either, you've misunderstood why the players are doing it, and are booing for some hallucinated reason of your own making.  Or, you understand perfectly why they're kneeling, and just don't like people showing support for victims of racism.

I don't think either of those reasons reflects particularly well on the booer, and are open to criticism, but I can more easily forgive the first one, which likely comes down to how they get their 'news'.

With the first one though, I get the impression they believe this horseshit because they want to.

[Hockley Lion]

Don't let's be fooled here. The majority of people who boo taking the knee are in my opinion mainly racist individuals. The justification they use that they are objecting against political correctness or politics in sport is simply a smoke screen to obscure the grotesque nature of their own deep rooted personal racism.

They know full well that taking the knee needs to be challenged now or it's message will gain more traction as time goes by. They have no choice other than to deny the real reason for taking the knee, which is the solidarity of players against racial abuse and discrimination in all areas of society but particularly as we have seen on social media.

The return of crowds to stadiums is now the first opportunity for them to regain what was once a bastion for open racism in a public environment. They can't simply start off the racist abuse at matches where they left off though. It won't be tolerated anymore, the subject of inequality is in the public consciousness much more, and prosecutions have taken place for hate crimes.

Tyrone has been articulate and clear and they'd like to shut him up or reduce his public profile because people are listening to him.

What's been good to see is that in football grounds the applause swiftly drowns out most of the boos. For this reason alone taking the knee should continue. Let them boo, let them show us who they all are, then call them out and chuck them out, there's no place for them here.

[Percy McCarthy]

Don't let's be fooled here. The majority of people who boo taking the knee are in my opinion mainly racist individuals. The justification they use that they are objecting against political correctness or politics in sport is simply a smoke screen to obscure the grotesque nature of their own deep rooted personal racism.

They know full well that taking the knee needs to be challenged now or it's message will gain more traction as time goes by. They have no choice other than to deny the real reason for taking the knee, which is the solidarity of players against racial abuse and discrimination in all areas of society but particularly as we have seen on social media.

The return of crowds to stadiums is now the first opportunity for them to regain what was once a bastion for open racism in a public environment. They can't simply start off the racist abuse at matches where they left off though. It won't be tolerated anymore, the subject of inequality is in the public consciousness much more, and prosecutions have taken place for hate crimes.

Tyrone has been articulate and clear and they'd like to shut him up or reduce his public profile because people are listening to him.

What's been good to see is that in football grounds the applause swiftly drowns out most of the boos. For this reason alone taking the knee should continue. Let them boo, let them show us who they all are, then call them out and chuck them out, there's no place for them here.

Amen brother! Almost makes me want to go myself.