Tyrone Mings - signed permanently and confirmed as even more awesome

[Sexual Ealing]

No, I am getting it. I'm getting that we're fed, by the media, selection information to suit a narrative and the masses automatically believe what they're told. 

You've got my curiosity now. Can you offer a couple of recommendations of where to learn more, without being fed information to suit a narrative?

I mean, you're quite clearly familiar with the story, and his criminal record. So where are you learning the truth about it?

I’d suggest the Daily Mail article that headlined how terrible it was as he’d turned his life around  (and added that in again at the end) after devoting the entire article to his wrap sheet, even digging out the court records and as much detail as possible. Their equivalent of being shocked and disgusted by how little someone is wearing, by showing lots of semi-Nude pics...

Let's be clear, it doesn't matter one jot whether he'd turned his life around or not. Execution (which ought not to exist) isn't decided on the spot by a thick, racist policeman.

[algy]

Well, I think Tyrone Mings is an absolute hero.


As for the George Floyd stuff. Maybe the chap who killed him wasn't racist, maybe his intentions weren't.  I don't know him from Adam, he might be a lovely bloke.

But there's clearly systemic police racism in the US, and whatever his motives the policeman has been charged with murder. I don't think there'd be many people arguing that his actions were the right thing to do in the circumstances. Possibly he didn't realise the severity of the situation, but his colleagues were there and didn't say or do anything to prevent a totally unnecessary death.

I don't for one minute think we face the same scale of problem that they do in the US, but the Stephen Lawrence case shows we're not beyond it. Not being racist goes quite a lot further than just 'not killing people' - people shouldn't need to die for anti-racist action to take place.

Anyway, well done Tyrone. You're bloody marvellous.

[brian green]

I agree with Ads.

[Richard E]

We’ve evolved to make instant judgements about other people based on appearance. That is inevitable, if you had to individually assess each person you met you’d never get anything done and you probably wouldn’t be here because your ancestor would have got a spear through their heart.

It is the legacy of history that the associations we make with certain groups can be negative. As a white person you have to try and recognise that in yourself and learn from it.

Add to the mix that people who are attracted to a career in the Police are by definition likely to be strongly in favour of law and order, and therefore that there will be elements (not every one!) of a right wing/authoritarian bent and you can see how these situations arise.

[Footy-Vill]

Edit so I moved my post of CNN report comment to the off topic instead.

Cheers.

[amfy]

We’ve evolved to make instant judgements about other people based on appearance. That is inevitable, if you had to individually assess each person you met you’d never get anything done and you probably wouldn’t be here because your ancestor would have got a spear through their heart.

It is the legacy of history that the associations we make with certain groups can be negative. As a white person you have to try and recognise that in yourself and learn from it.

Add to the mix that people who are attracted to a career in the Police are by definition likely to be strongly in favour of law and order, and therefore that there will be elements (not every one!) of a right wing/authoritarian bent and you can see how these situations arise.

This is so important. Pile a lifetime of media & societal conditioning on top of our primeval instinct to mistrust people who look different, and you have a high enough percentage of people (Even black people - the conditioning is that deep) who don’t think a black pupil at school, or a candidate at a job interview is quite as bright as he actually is, wonder what a black person is doing in a particular shop, a particular neighbourhood, see a black person as a threat before they are a threat, or a bigger threat than they are.

That’s how George Floyd’s murder is racist, even if there was no conscious thought about his colour. Even the non-white officers involved in his killing, thought he was more of a threat than he was, even when he was cuffed face down on the ground. That is what instinct+conditioning does. This is the very least way it was racist (I actually think it was more directly racist than that but that’s just an opinion based on Chauvin’s smug face but there you go)

When people say ‘all white people are racist, it’s too crude and it makes people defensive, but the truth is that we all do need to work on ourselves. Once you accept that, you can check yourself and catch yourself & move on.

[Somniloquism]

That’s how George Floyd’s murder is racist, even if there was no conscious thought about his colour. Even the non-white officers involved in his killing, thought he was more of a threat than he was, even when he was cuffed face down on the ground. That is what instinct+conditioning does. This is the very least way it was racist (I actually think it was more directly racist than that but that’s just an opinion based on Chauvin’s smug face but there you go)

They supposedly worked together for several years in security positions at the same night club with the copper earning extra cash as external security and George having a full time job as internal security. The owner stated they didn't know have any antagonism between them at work or how much they interacted but I would have though the internal and external security teams would have interacted at times when trouble occurred. The smirk might have been "look at how far you have fallen" or "I have job, you don't" or even "I will fix you for doing whatever that one time". However it still had roots in racism due to four cops behaving that way and also doing crowd control on I suspect the mostly black bystanders and just assuming they wanted tor rescue their colleague from jail rather then from death.

[Small Rodent]

If someone can advise this forum, based on evidence, how this murder was racist, I'm all ears.

You keep coming up with the classic lines about the “media feeding” us. Implying you have a mightier mind than the rest of us.

Why don’t you just come out with it and whine “all lives matter”?

[LeeB]

Anyone that says they can't see racism here is frankly a wanker.

I'm sorry, but thete's nothing to 'understand' about them.

[PaulWinch again]

If someone can advise this forum, based on evidence, how this murder was racist, I'm all ears.

You keep coming up with the classic lines about the “media feeding” us. Implying you have a mightier mind than the rest of us.

Why don’t you just come out with it and whine “all lives matter”?

Funnily enough I’ve been having a very similar argument with someone on Facebook today who seems to take exception to me re-posting something that explained why stating “all lives matter” is utterly reductive and missing the point.

[RamboandBruno]

What criminal activity was he involved in as the forged bill has been proven to be absolute bollocks.

This was not just about a fake $20 bill in its entirety as you're led to believe by what you've told in the media. No one will know fully until the police realise their version of the story, but it's widely reported that Floyd was:

"According to the toxicology report, Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system when he died, as well as cannabis compounds and morphine" as well as a video showing him drop a 'packet of white substance' just prior to being searched. The police were there for a reason.

Again, I do not condone the fact he was killed whatsoever. But to claim it was racist, at this stage, is false.

Why is it false? There is absolutely nothing in your post to that point which suggests it wasn't racist. Or am I missing something?

I'll turn that back to you, pws. What suggests that this was racist?

I originally grew up on a multi ethic council estate in Brum, albeit living an essentially middle class life now. I’m a trade unionist, I’m to the left, I believe this government in this country is shocking, I think spike lees quote about Trump being a gangster is completely accurate. And I am white and middle aged, what this ultimately means is I don’t experience racism first hand. Despite, having what I would consider, progressive opinions on matters of race and integration etc, some things I just never really saw until they pointed out to me. Being offered a seat on a packed train when a black colleague wasn’t, travelling by plane with a black colleague for work purposes regularly and them regularly being searched when I virtually never was, a black female colleague with dreadlocks having her hair touched and commented on in a ‘nice’ way by white people.

My point is as a white person who doesn’t experience this behaviour directly, I miss it. However if this behaviour is pointed out to you and you choose not to see it, you are making an active choice.

Thousands if not millions of people, largely but not solely from black communities have told us that what happened to George Floyd is endemic of on going racist behaviour in large elements of not just American society. The idea of that this isn’t reflective of what’s happening in this country is ignorant, when large parts of the brexit debate was completely based on racism.

You make an active choice not to see this as racist, you choose to ask the rest of us to prove it’s racist. Your continued justification of your position speaks volumes. Unfortunately I guess your opinions are formed throughout your life and like most social media ‘debates’ nothing will change them.

[dave shelley]

It's probably been said on here but, anyone who can't see racisim in this situation is part of the problem and just perpetuates it.

[Toronto Villa]

The death of George Floyd specifically might not have been overtly racially motivated but the systemic racism within the police force in the US is very well documented. Racial profiling is absolutely real and prevalent. George Floyd got treated by police like a black man in America. Where it escalated is that the police officer at the centre of this was a fucking bigoted wanker, a devotee of Trump, who has appeared on stage at one of rallies, and who saw no issue doing what he did in broad daylight. Did he intend to kill him? That’s yet to be determined and likely something that won’t be proven. But did he do everything he could to subject Floyd to the worst possible anguish and pain leading to his death? Absolutely he did.

The knee of the neck of a black man in America will forever become the symbol of what it is like to black in America. I’ve lived there for a number of years and you would be incredibly naive to think in any way, shape or form that African Americans, outside of sports and entertainment are not looked down on by a large contingent of white society. They were imported to America against their will 400 years ago and that’s how so many look at them either consciously or subconsciously. Racism in America is alive and well. Trump is just a massive part of the problem. He didn’t create this, but his Presidency has only allowed him to reveal who he is and truly reveal the racism that exists in every corner of America.

Destroying racism wherever it is is like pushing a boulder up a mountain. It’s just hard work every single day. And right now there are more people pushing and it feels like we are getting closer to the top. The danger is, as it has always been is that eventually this energy will dry up. And then what? Do we go back to what it has been until another major incident takes place? Or this time, will we find a way to complete the climb? I don’t have faith in the latter.

[Somniloquism]

The death of George Floyd specifically might not have been overtly racially motivated but the systemic racism within the police force in the US is very well documented. Racial profiling is absolutely real and prevalent. George Floyd got treated by police like a black man in America. Where it escalated is that the police officer at the centre of this was a fucking bigoted wanker, a devotee of Trump, who has appeared on stage at one of rallies, and who saw no issue doing what he did in broad daylight. Did he intend to kill him? That’s yet to be determined and likely something that won’t be proven. But did he do everything he could to subject Floyd to the worst possible anguish and pain leading to his death? Absolutely he did.

The knee of the neck of a black man in America will forever become the symbol of what it is like to black in America. I’ve lived there for a number of years and you would be incredibly naive to think in any way, shape or form that African Americans, outside of sports and entertainment are not looked down on by a large contingent of white society. They were imported to America against their will 400 years ago and that’s how so many look at them either consciously or subconsciously. Racism in America is alive and well. Trump is just a massive part of the problem. He didn’t create this, but his Presidency has only allowed him to reveal who he is and truly reveal the racism that exists in every corner of America.

Destroying racism wherever it is is like pushing a boulder up a mountain. It’s just hard work every single day. And right now there are more people pushing and it feels like we are getting closer to the top. The danger is, as it has always been is that eventually this energy will dry up. And then what? Do we go back to what it has been until another major incident takes place? Or this time, will we find a way to complete the climb? I don’t have faith in the latter.

I agree with most of what you put but the photo's with Trump has been debunked.

[LeeB]

Not him, but the chief of his police union was, wearing his pro-Trump red(neck) t-shirt.