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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 548078 times)

Offline Smithy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6465 on: February 17, 2020, 02:34:14 PM »
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.



Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6466 on: February 17, 2020, 05:27:05 PM »
AEG was having a stormer and Samatta didn't need subbing yesterday.

Smith's biggest mistake is in not bringing in a proper defence coach - this is what will cause our demise, not his substitutions.
Please explain what is needed to be defensively coached.
- not playing such a high line when the central centre-back is short of pace
- not playing such a high line when the opposition's front three are grease-lightning speed
- defending corners and other set pieces in range of the penalty area
- distributing the ball from the back

When our goals-conceded is the worst in the division and our previous season also saw a poor defensive return (in terms of goals-conceded), I'd say there's a problem with our defence-coaching. It may be the players we have, but inidividually each have skills that suggest they could be decent. I personally believe that it is coaching that is an issue.
Yes, midfield does not offer the best cover to our defence; yes, we need a better-than-average DMF.
The high line is an instruction, would suggest they are doing what they have been coached to do.
We are conceding too many chances and too many goals, it is the midfield that is the problem, has been all season.
 

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6467 on: February 17, 2020, 05:30:10 PM »
I don't think we were especially going for it on 94 minutes yesterday, it was just a catastrophic individual mistake.  If Engels had got any sort of contact on the ball instead of doing an Enckelman, then it was pretty much game over, and would have been a well-earned point.

Offline Villan82

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6468 on: February 17, 2020, 05:43:12 PM »
I don't think we were especially going for it on 94 minutes yesterday, it was just a catastrophic individual mistake.  If Engels had got any sort of contact on the ball instead of doing an Enckelman, then it was pretty much game over, and would have been a well-earned point.

It just stings.

Offline Demitri_C

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6469 on: February 17, 2020, 05:55:56 PM »
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.



Looking at that photo jesus the positioning is absolutely atrocious. Our line looks way too high.Those three near the stand they are not marking anyone. Nakamba for me should be a bit further back not at half way line.

Konsa is too close to engels as well for me. But from that photo only engels and konsa are behind son.

Thats what makes brilliant footballers anticipating mistakes. We dont seem to do that sadly.

Online Newby

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6470 on: February 17, 2020, 06:13:42 PM »
Given we seem to be sailing close to the wind with FFP constraints and also needed a huge squad turnaround, Smith is doing ok.  He still pisses me off with some of the game management stuff and lack of dealing with the physicality in midfield, but given the constraints, he's doing ok. No better than that though and I do wonder if a more premier league experienced manager might get more out of this current squad? However, that ship has sailed and we finish the season with Dean Smith in charge.

Offline Smithy

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6471 on: February 17, 2020, 07:45:25 PM »
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.



Looking at that photo jesus the positioning is absolutely atrocious. Our line looks way too high.Those three near the stand they are not marking anyone. Nakamba for me should be a bit further back not at half way line.

Konsa is too close to engels as well for me. But from that photo only engels and konsa are behind son.

Thats what makes brilliant footballers anticipating mistakes. We dont seem to do that sadly.

There's a bit to unpack, here, so forgive me - but I feel obliged to pick on some of this.  The positioning of the defence is precisely as it was for the 93 minutes that preceded it.  The high line and high-press is what led us to having most of the ball and creating the best chances in the first half - denying their front four 'room to play'.  It worked pretty well in the first-half, and but for a poor finish from Luiz we'd have been 2-0 up. 

Now, if your position is we - as a team - should not be defending with a high line, then that's fair enough. I would disagree, but that's a perfectly reasonable position to hold. BUT that wasn't your point originally, it was "why did Smith have so many people forward at such a vital stage of the game" and "why did he only leave two defenders back" - whereas he demonstrably did not have "so many people forward" or leave "only two defenders back"

As for the three "not marking anyone", well, it was OUR set-piece, and two of them had just gone for a header (unchallenged). I don't believe even Mourinho, at the height of his bus-parking days, ever had his players marking the opposition during their OWN set-pieces. That would be negative to a level not really seen in the professional game.  On our goal kick it's for them to mark US. Be aware of them, obviously - but mark them? Nonsense. When possession is lost, we move ahead with our press and mark them.  If your midfield is marking the opposition on your own set-pieces, when do you...  you know, attack?

And finally, anticipating mistakes is not what makes brilliant footballers. Because at the very top level such mistakes are VERY few and far between, if your movement during the game was focussed on anticipating the mistakes of your team-mates, you'd be wasting a LOT of energy and losing momentum when in possession.  Yes, defenders often come round on the cover to anticipate a teammate missing or losing a header or tackle, but NOT when the ball is coming at them at foot level and they aren't under pressure.  Konsa and Hause did nothing wrong by not sprinting backwards on the off-chance Engels missed the ball.

Spurs' third goal was nothing but a catastrophic individual technical error. It wasn't a tactical error. It wasn't because we had too many men forward. It wasn't because the midfield wasn't marking anyone. It wasn't because the two other central defenders didn't anticipate such a massive mistake.  If Engels connects with that ball the way he would 999 times out of a thousand, we get a deserved point.

Online SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6472 on: February 17, 2020, 08:05:24 PM »
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.




Interesting pic Smithy, cheers for showing that. Really to me (again with my Hindsight United bobble hat on!) with 30 seconds left our back 3 really shouldn't have been that close to halfway line and certainly Targett and Gulibert shouldn't have been in opposition half.

It's gone now anyway. Let's just hope we learn from this if as I'm pretty sure if we're to get the four wins we need they won't be easy 3-0 wins but more narrow one goal wins when we'll be under mass pressure going into injury time so it's a skill we need to gain if we're to stay up.

Sheffield United have seen close games out countless times this season against decent teams. Same for likes of Palace, Bournemouth and Newcastle. If they can do it we should be able to.

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6473 on: February 17, 2020, 08:09:43 PM »
I really donít think it matters wherever anyone is positioned when such an unexpected, unforced, individual mistake is made.

Offline Demitri_C

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6474 on: February 17, 2020, 08:11:16 PM »
Another point on smith why the helm did he puss so many peope foraard at such a vital stage of the game?? Jesus there is no way with 90 seconds left we should only havetwo have players back.

His naive and quite frankly idiotic decisions at times are costing us points. A point and a gaol goal conceded could be vital come end of season


Watford.


And Brighton. Where a defender scored the winner in the 94th minute, when perhaps he should have been in his own half securing the point?

We comparing brighton and watford to spurs? It was a bsd mistake by smith in my opinion knowing the quality spurs possess.

That dropped point and goal could vital come end of season.  He needs to stop gambling its costing us big time.

I'm not comparing Spurs as a team to Brighton as a team, I'm merely pointing out that the "bad mistake" as you put it, of trying to win the game late on was something that got us wins against Watford and Brighton.

I also don't know where you get the idea that we only had two players back? Look at the position of our back three as the ball is played forward.  Nothing really wrong with their position, and Nakamba well placed for the second ball, it's just that Son anticipated a mistake, and the other two central defenders didn't.  It was a technical mistake, not a tactical one. 

It doesn't matter how many defenders you have back level with Engels, if the only one anticipating the miskick is Son, he gets through on goal every single time.



Looking at that photo jesus the positioning is absolutely atrocious. Our line looks way too high.Those three near the stand they are not marking anyone. Nakamba for me should be a bit further back not at half way line.

Konsa is too close to engels as well for me. But from that photo only engels and konsa are behind son.

Thats what makes brilliant footballers anticipating mistakes. We dont seem to do that sadly.

There's a bit to unpack, here, so forgive me - but I feel obliged to pick on some of this.  The positioning of the defence is precisely as it was for the 93 minutes that preceded it.  The high line and high-press is what led us to having most of the ball and creating the best chances in the first half - denying their front four 'room to play'.  It worked pretty well in the first-half, and but for a poor finish from Luiz we'd have been 2-0 up. 

Now, if your position is we - as a team - should not be defending with a high line, then that's fair enough. I would disagree, but that's a perfectly reasonable position to hold. BUT that wasn't your point originally, it was "why did Smith have so many people forward at such a vital stage of the game" and "why did he only leave two defenders back" - whereas he demonstrably did not have "so many people forward" or leave "only two defenders back"

As for the three "not marking anyone", well, it was OUR set-piece, and two of them had just gone for a header (unchallenged). I don't believe even Mourinho, at the height of his bus-parking days, ever had his players marking the opposition during their OWN set-pieces. That would be negative to a level not really seen in the professional game.  On our goal kick it's for them to mark US. Be aware of them, obviously - but mark them? Nonsense. When possession is lost, we move ahead with our press and mark them.  If your midfield is marking the opposition on your own set-pieces, when do you...  you know, attack?

And finally, anticipating mistakes is not what makes brilliant footballers. Because at the very top level such mistakes are VERY few and far between, if your movement during the game was focussed on anticipating the mistakes of your team-mates, you'd be wasting a LOT of energy and losing momentum when in possession.  Yes, defenders often come round on the cover to anticipate a teammate missing or losing a header or tackle, but NOT when the ball is coming at them at foot level and they aren't under pressure.  Konsa and Hause did nothing wrong by not sprinting backwards on the off-chance Engels missed the ball.

Spurs' third goal was nothing but a catastrophic individual technical error. It wasn't a tactical error. It wasn't because we had too many men forward. It wasn't because the midfield wasn't marking anyone. It wasn't because the two other central defenders didn't anticipate such a massive mistake.  If Engels connects with that ball the way he would 999 times out of a thousand, we get a deserved point.

Well structured post that mate 👍

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6475 on: February 17, 2020, 08:12:41 PM »
I really donít think it matters wherever anyone is positioned when such an unexpected, unforced, individual mistake is made.

It obviously does, though. If Hause is even a yard behind where he is, or even Konsa who is far too advanced, they have a strong chance of coming across Son's path. Worst case scenario they miss the ball and take a red for the team by clattering into Son.

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6476 on: February 17, 2020, 08:20:59 PM »
Disagree, there is always someone who is going to be last man and you wouldnít plan for a mistake like that in a kids game. The three central defenders look in a good shape in that photo, you canít legislate for it.

Offline mrfuse

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6477 on: February 17, 2020, 08:32:58 PM »
Disagree, there is always someone who is going to be last man and you wouldnít plan for a mistake like that in a kids game. The three central defenders look in a good shape in that photo, you canít legislate for it.

Agree, I think we are over analysing one players mistake.

Offline olaftab

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6478 on: February 17, 2020, 08:34:20 PM »
I really donít think it matters wherever anyone is positioned when such an unexpected, unforced, individual mistake is made.
This. It's pointless talking about shape and tactics etc etc. It was an easy ball to control and clear and the lad made an horrendous error. It had nothing to do with quality of their forwards or how crap we are defensively. They got lucky that's all.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #6479 on: February 17, 2020, 08:46:43 PM »
Itís pretty obvious that a few criticizing the shape have never played in defense or maybe at all.

 


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