Fan Ownership

[oldhill_avfc]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

There were a few of us on here swimming against the tide.

[Risso]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

There were a few of us on here swimming against the tide.

The only tangible difference is that with the Plc you got to go to the AGM and shout at the chairman.  You can save the petrol and do that on Twitter now.

[oldhill_avfc]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

One of the issues I see Dave with this model is lets say 20% of the club is owned by fans; given Xia was pumping x million in every month to keep the club afloat it's difficult to see the supporters who own the club pumping in 20% every month.

(I understand that's not the only aspect and facet of fan ownership but given the current issues is a pertinent one)

Companies the world over cope with this every day without issue.

Cash can be loaned or injected in return for equity.  If the shareholders don't all invest they get diluted.  But in theory the value of of their investment remains the same, ie a smaller share of a bigger pie.

[oldhill_avfc]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

There were a few of us on here swimming against the tide.

The only tangible difference is that with the Plc you got to go to the AGM and shout at the chairman.  You can save the petrol and do that on Twitter now.

Agreed but at least there is due process and they have to answer.

[GarTomas]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

One of the issues I see Dave with this model is lets say 20% of the club is owned by fans; given Xia was pumping x million in every month to keep the club afloat it's difficult to see the supporters who own the club pumping in 20% every month.

(I understand that's not the only aspect and facet of fan ownership but given the current issues is a pertinent one)

Companies the world over cope with this every day without issue.

Cash can be loaned or injected in return for equity.  If the shareholders don't all invest they get diluted.  But in theory the value of of their investment remains the same, ie a smaller share of a bigger pie.

I agree to an extent Oldhill but there are a few differences between a football club and other companies.

If I'd bought shares in a company and then didn't like the direction they were going in ethically I could just sell my shares.  As a supporter of the club would I sell my shares if I didn't like the choice of manager.  The list of minority investors in a football club is likely to be limited to fans only.

It's also likely that any power of voice that the fans have as owners is reduced when their share of the pie gets smaller and smaller.

Although looking at the German 50+1 model there is nothing I guess to stop the larger investors pumping more cash into the club and then recouping this more more fans over time using a crowd funding approach.

[Pat McMahon]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.

I kept mine too but no idea where it is.

[CT]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.

Same here. It's framed too.

[UK Redsox]

‘Fan Ownership’? Maybe we can all buy shares in Legion

[Damo70]

I tend to agree with PWS and his early quotes on this thread. Fan ownership tends to only work as a short term, emergency measure and has a better chance of succeeding at the lower levels where the cash involved is a hell of a lot less than at the top level. By top level I am referring to the Premier league and Championship.

[GarTomas]

The model seems to work in Germany but then it’s binding on all clubs there.

[JD]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.

Same here. It's framed too.

Yep, I've still got mine as well.

[Proposition Joe]

The model seems to work in Germany but then it’s binding on all clubs there.

Yes, even though Bayern Munich's professional football club is a commercial "AG" (PLC), 75% of the shares are owned by the Bayern Munich "e.V." which is a registered club: a "club" in this sense is something specific but not easy to translate into English terms, Wikipedia calls it a voluntary association. So the members of this club basically own 75% of the Bayern football team and as far as I know anyone is free to join. Incidentally, the e.V. also includes basketball, handball and chess amongst others.

And speaking of well-run, Bayern have operated at a profit for the last 25 years I think, and their turnover is dominated by commercial revenue ie not totally dependant on broadcasting.

In an ideal world, if Villa were to be sustainable, wages should be covered by commercial and matchday revenue. TV and prize money could be used for transfers or infrastructural investments.

[SashasGrandad]

Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all?  At least then there's more chance of transparency?  This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.

We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.

I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.

Same here. It's framed too.

Yep, I've still got mine as well.

I've got mine - but think I sent it in to get my money back and they returned it to me once it was cancelled - so I have got it framed.

[IFWaters]

What would it cost to buy Villa Park and "a" training ground (doesnt have to be Bodymoor Heath). It seems to me that a possible way for fans to have a stake in the club is to buy out its buildings and develop them for fan benefit , charge the team to use them. That way prices can be set to maximise attendance. The ground could also be used for concerts etc to supplement income.

Does the land the ground occupy hold significant value - its not really prime real estate. How much would it realistically be and is now a good opportunity as it looks like the team need the hard cash.

[algy]

I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.

Ha, me too- still hanging on the dining room wall at my dad's house   Would never sell my part of the Villa, not for all the money in the world.