What's to stop the owners buying a club elsewhere and then loaning/selling those players to Villa on the cheap?
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2018, 09:31:13 PMQuote from: PeterWithe on October 18, 2018, 07:35:20 AMQuote from: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2018, 06:54:49 AMMaybe Jacks new contract and sell on clause has helped.How so?He’d presumably be on more money than on his previous contract and the sell on fee can’t help until it’s realised?If an asset goes up in value you can take the excess value as a profit in that accounting period, so the justification is a new contract and sell on clause,I am not sure that it is valid under FFP.OK, so firstly accounting standards make no attempt to "fair value" footballers - it's impossible to do so. They're accounted for at amortised cost.Secondly, the only time you take asset value appreciation in to the income statement is when it's an investment property or you're reversing a previous downward revaluation recognised through the income statement.And thirdly, a sell on clause has no bearing on a players value in any case. It's a term in a contract which is unlikely to ever get triggered. If it did, would that mean players who didn't have a release clause would be worth nothing?!
Quote from: PeterWithe on October 18, 2018, 07:35:20 AMQuote from: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2018, 06:54:49 AMMaybe Jacks new contract and sell on clause has helped.How so?He’d presumably be on more money than on his previous contract and the sell on fee can’t help until it’s realised?If an asset goes up in value you can take the excess value as a profit in that accounting period, so the justification is a new contract and sell on clause,I am not sure that it is valid under FFP.
Quote from: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2018, 06:54:49 AMMaybe Jacks new contract and sell on clause has helped.How so?He’d presumably be on more money than on his previous contract and the sell on fee can’t help until it’s realised?
Maybe Jacks new contract and sell on clause has helped.
Quote from: Ad@m on October 18, 2018, 10:55:50 PMQuote from: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2018, 09:31:13 PMQuote from: PeterWithe on October 18, 2018, 07:35:20 AMQuote from: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2018, 06:54:49 AMMaybe Jacks new contract and sell on clause has helped.How so?He’d presumably be on more money than on his previous contract and the sell on fee can’t help until it’s realised?If an asset goes up in value you can take the excess value as a profit in that accounting period, so the justification is a new contract and sell on clause,I am not sure that it is valid under FFP.OK, so firstly accounting standards make no attempt to "fair value" footballers - it's impossible to do so. They're accounted for at amortised cost.Secondly, the only time you take asset value appreciation in to the income statement is when it's an investment property or you're reversing a previous downward revaluation recognised through the income statement.And thirdly, a sell on clause has no bearing on a players value in any case. It's a term in a contract which is unlikely to ever get triggered. If it did, would that mean players who didn't have a release clause would be worth nothing?!I don't know anything about accounting but what I find interesting is that the confirmation statement in May listed our share value as £84m but last week there was a statement of capital which put us closer to £186m. What difference does that make and how is that additional value generated? I'd guess part of it is conversion of debt to equity but does anyone know what impact this would have on FFP?
Quote from: paul_e on October 19, 2018, 10:21:29 AMI don't know anything about accounting but what I find interesting is that the confirmation statement in May listed our share value as £84m but last week there was a statement of capital which put us closer to £186m. What difference does that make and how is that additional value generated? I'd guess part of it is conversion of debt to equity but does anyone know what impact this would have on FFP?Debt written off an converted to equity.You can finance a company by putting your own money in and creating shares or equity or by borrowing someone else’s and putting that in as debt.Lerner and Xia lent the money the club. So Xia paid Lerner around £84m which was the equity and then lent the club another £100m. When the new owners came in they effectively cancelled or the debt for equity.I think - an accountant may explain it better.
I don't know anything about accounting but what I find interesting is that the confirmation statement in May listed our share value as £84m but last week there was a statement of capital which put us closer to £186m. What difference does that make and how is that additional value generated? I'd guess part of it is conversion of debt to equity but does anyone know what impact this would have on FFP?
Quote from: GarTomas on October 19, 2018, 12:35:50 PMQuote from: paul_e on October 19, 2018, 10:21:29 AMI don't know anything about accounting but what I find interesting is that the confirmation statement in May listed our share value as £84m but last week there was a statement of capital which put us closer to £186m. What difference does that make and how is that additional value generated? I'd guess part of it is conversion of debt to equity but does anyone know what impact this would have on FFP?Debt written off an converted to equity.You can finance a company by putting your own money in and creating shares or equity or by borrowing someone else’s and putting that in as debt.Lerner and Xia lent the money the club. So Xia paid Lerner around £84m which was the equity and then lent the club another £100m. When the new owners came in they effectively cancelled or the debt for equity.I think - an accountant may explain it better.Yeah, I get all of that but how much of the difference is a debt conversion and what other changes would cause this? If, for example, we revalued BMH based on the valuation used in the HS2 buyout, would that justify an increase in share value and if so would that increase in asset value cancel out some the 'book debt' that is against us for FFP?What I'm really getting at is what actions that lead to a share value increase would help with FFP and what actions wouldn't? I'd assume that debt conversion makes no difference because the asset value of the club hasn't changed and we know that perceived value of players is irrelevant but fixed asset value surely helps.
All assets on a balance sheet depreciate or amortise over time.
No I agree, but I don't think we have. Snoddy and Terry were £110k a week in wages. I would imagine that the signings we've made are covered by that. I highly doubt we've made Bolasie our hughest paid player ever, especially when Boro agreed the same package with Everton.
Quote from: GarTomas on October 19, 2018, 02:31:10 PMAll assets on a balance sheet depreciate or amortise over time.At the risk of taking this off topic, no they don't.The only assets that depreciate are Property, Plant & Equipment (Tangible Fixed Assets in the good ol' days) and the only assets that amortise are (some) Intangibles. All other assets (investment properties, inventory/stock, trade debtors/receivables, cash, prepayments, accrued revenue/income, etc) don't.
We are on for the full whack on Bolasie.
Quote from: Ad@m on October 19, 2018, 04:34:23 PMQuote from: GarTomas on October 19, 2018, 02:31:10 PMAll assets on a balance sheet depreciate or amortise over time.At the risk of taking this off topic, no they don't.The only assets that depreciate are Property, Plant & Equipment (Tangible Fixed Assets in the good ol' days) and the only assets that amortise are (some) Intangibles. All other assets (investment properties, inventory/stock, trade debtors/receivables, cash, prepayments, accrued revenue/income, etc) don't.I’m no accountant!!
Quote from: cheltenhamlion on October 19, 2018, 05:49:46 PMWe are on for the full whack on Bolasie. … which begs the question: why??