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Author Topic: Financial fair play  (Read 219636 times)

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #510 on: July 27, 2018, 12:16:42 PM »
Unfortunately this’ll prove Doc was a phoney all along and gambled on going up with the bit of dosh he had. I for one didn’t want to believe that but it’s clear now FFP was a smokescreen

I had suspicions around that too, but in fairness I don't think it's self-evident yet. The new owners have done nothing yet to suggest that we aren't still trying to comply with FFP and reduce our losses, and until such a time as there is a statement made - either explicit or implicit, such as retaining Grealish despite a serious bid coming in - we can't assume or deduce that IMO.

Offline Leicester_Villian

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #511 on: July 27, 2018, 12:18:26 PM »
Seems if you simply ignore FFP and pay a fine of 4 million a year there is little risk ...we have been paying that amount for Micah Richards past two seasons

Offline Ads

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #512 on: July 27, 2018, 12:24:50 PM »
£3m in costs. 5% bonus on that would go down well. Be fuck tonne of Counsel fees mind.

Offline footyskillz

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #513 on: July 27, 2018, 12:30:50 PM »
Yeah pay the fine once Villa are up. Have the tools to take us up if we can just push on.

More chance of going up by keeping this group of players and owners can afford it.

If the chessie staying on and signing a contract is true then some indication where we are at

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #514 on: July 27, 2018, 01:08:35 PM »
This is Villa. You know we would be the one club to get the points deduction. EFL would lick their lips at making an example of us.

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #515 on: July 27, 2018, 01:16:04 PM »
£3m in costs. 5% bonus on that would go down well. Be fuck tonne of Counsel fees mind.

The costs were due to QPR challenging the decision weren't they? It has dragged on over a 4 year period.

Again, the costs will be spread over a long period so will not impact too greatly.

I wonder how the money will ever be paid if the club are permitted to operate at a £39 million loss over a 3 year period. How do you enforce it against a business that is operating at a loss? Your only option would be to apply to get the company struck off.

Offline Ads

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #516 on: July 27, 2018, 01:18:44 PM »
You wind the motherfuckers up.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #517 on: July 27, 2018, 01:25:00 PM »
This is Villa. You know we would be the one club to get the points deduction. EFL would lick their lips at making an example of us.

I'll go on record as saying I don't think anyone will be docked points under the current setup, if it has no effect (i.e. a club in 8th drops to 10th) then it's pointless but if it takes someone out of a promotion/play off place or puts them into a relegation place then it would obviously go to appeal, given the tight timescales of everything you'd need to have the appeal heard between the sanction being applied (probably in April) and the playoffs/end of season.  That's a tiny window for that process given the 4 year precedent above.  Even being a couple of weeks late could have huge ramifications with teams not knowing which league they'll be in and playoff games being cancelled until the teams can be confirmed.

If they put specifics into the rules (if you're over by £xm then we'll deduct y points and a sliding scale of values) then it's enforceable but the current vague nature of it means the clubs would hold all the cards.

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #518 on: July 27, 2018, 01:25:47 PM »
You wind the motherfuckers up.

Exactly but the EFL wouldn't do that would they?  It is a ridiculous situation.

The only people who might are the lawyers involved in the proceedings. Even then, they may prefer £300,000 a year for 10 years as an alternative.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #519 on: July 27, 2018, 02:32:13 PM »
This is Villa. You know we would be the one club to get the points deduction. EFL would lick their lips at making an example of us.

I'll go on record as saying I don't think anyone will be docked points under the current setup, if it has no effect (i.e. a club in 8th drops to 10th) then it's pointless but if it takes someone out of a promotion/play off place or puts them into a relegation place then it would obviously go to appeal, given the tight timescales of everything you'd need to have the appeal heard between the sanction being applied (probably in April) and the playoffs/end of season.  That's a tiny window for that process given the 4 year precedent above.  Even being a couple of weeks late could have huge ramifications with teams not knowing which league they'll be in and playoff games being cancelled until the teams can be confirmed.

If they put specifics into the rules (if you're over by £xm then we'll deduct y points and a sliding scale of values) then it's enforceable but the current vague nature of it means the clubs would hold all the cards.

That's how I see it but the club would seek a court injunction to prevent the deduction until a case was heard in court.

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #520 on: July 27, 2018, 02:43:25 PM »
As has been said countless times. The rules have been toughened precisely because of what QPR and other clubs did. But they have to be punished according to previous rules 

I'd say this is a signal that they're pretty serious

Offline The Edge

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #521 on: July 27, 2018, 02:57:35 PM »
This whole ffp malarkey is way too complicated. Surely they could devise a simpler more transparent set of rules so those of us who aren't a legal and financial boffin can understand what it's all about.  Also what happens to all the fines?

Offline paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #522 on: July 27, 2018, 02:59:06 PM »
As has been said countless times. The rules have been toughened precisely because of what QPR and other clubs did. But they have to be punished according to previous rules 

I'd say this is a signal that they're pretty serious

I think the fines and transfer sanctions will be but as I say, points deductions are either meaningless or massively punishing to the point that they would be contested, for that reason I just don't see it happening, and blocking a promotion definitely won't happen.

Offline AsTallAsLions

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #523 on: July 27, 2018, 03:02:28 PM »
As has been said countless times. The rules have been toughened precisely because of what QPR and other clubs did. But they have to be punished according to previous rules 

I'd say this is a signal that they're pretty serious

I think the fines and transfer sanctions will be but as I say, points deductions are either meaningless or massively punishing to the point that they would be contested, for that reason I just don't see it happening, and blocking a promotion definitely won't happen.

Points deductions are never meaningless. Really don't understand your previous argument either. They wouldn't apply the deductions as a penalty in the first place if it was to be overturned on appeal. Whatever they do in this space will stick, because it has to, otherwise the whole league laughs at it/them. It's literally a waste of their time and resources to do anything that can be easily overturned.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #524 on: July 27, 2018, 03:18:30 PM »
As has been said countless times. The rules have been toughened precisely because of what QPR and other clubs did. But they have to be punished according to previous rules 

I'd say this is a signal that they're pretty serious

I think the fines and transfer sanctions will be but as I say, points deductions are either meaningless or massively punishing to the point that they would be contested, for that reason I just don't see it happening, and blocking a promotion definitely won't happen.

Points deductions are never meaningless. Really don't understand your previous argument either. They wouldn't apply the deductions as a penalty in the first place if it was to be overturned on appeal. Whatever they do in this space will stick, because it has to, otherwise the whole league laughs at it/them. It's literally a waste of their time and resources to do anything that can be easily overturned.

It's meaningless because prize money, isn't based on league places so dropping from 7th to 21st (and anything in between) is irrelevant so giving a points deduction to those teams is a worthless punishment. Whereas for team who drop out of the playoffs or into the relegation places that points deduction could be crippling and have far reaching consequences for the club.  The argument would therefore be that, because the punishment is decided by a panel with no precedent or guidelines in place, clubs are being punished unfairly based on either who they are or on their league position.  I'm not saying they'd win but it would be something that could be going through courts for a fair while, and that creates huge problems for the leagues and the clubs involved. They can only avoid this if they provide documentation to the clubs giving specific details of what infringement would instigate a deduction and the number of points involved.

Look at the deduction for going into admin, no contests it because it's very clear but, in this circumstance, the vague nature of the ruling is in the favour of the clubs not the league.

 


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