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Author Topic: Financial fair play  (Read 219688 times)

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #405 on: June 03, 2018, 12:43:24 PM »
Isn't this FFP discussion a bit of a red herring, in that it assumes Xia actually wants to put more money in.

In his statement, he also said this:

Quote
We are all aware that we will face severe FFP challenges next season. I am an Aston Villa fan. But I am also a businessman. Under the current circumstances, I think the club needs to rethink not only the past two years but also the past ten years. Villa needs to be a sustainable football club. People join. People leave. That is the cycle of football. But the football club always remains through it all.  This is the ultimate reality that cannot be changed, but I can assure you that everyone behind the scenes is working tirelessly towards achieving our ultimate goal. 

We have been heavily investing for the past two seasons. However, the loss on Saturday means that we need to change a lot of things. No one wanted to see the club have to go through this, but I believe that only changes can help the club to progress towards the positive direction and this requires the joint efforts of everyone associated with this great football club. 

That does not sound to me like a man desperately looking for ways to get more money into the club.

Or it could mean not throwing money at it but a clear progressive business plan.

Offline themossman

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #406 on: June 03, 2018, 01:01:59 PM »
Out of interest, has a relegated team thrown vast sums at getting straight back up to and failed before? There must be examples but I can’t think of any.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #407 on: June 03, 2018, 01:46:00 PM »
He's just the latest in the long line of businessmen who think this football lark is easy and then find out it's not like running a normal company.

what exactly did you expect him to do differently? And if we are going to question his managerial appointments which is fine, given the state he bought us in there was no guarantee at all that whoever would have corrected things. As much as it very disappointing not to go up, we have no doubt arrested a very bad situation that could have left us where Sunderland is today. That we are now in the this position due to a "football" regulation and cannot spend out of it isn't directly tied to the stewardship of the owner. Like all people in business, mistakes are made. But in hindsight for the past two years he's not made that many that have really negatively impacted the club. He's put faith in managers and given them money to get us back up as quickly as possible. I was rather hoping for that post Randy.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #408 on: June 03, 2018, 02:20:49 PM »
Out of interest, has a relegated team thrown vast sums at getting straight back up to and failed before? There must be examples but I can’t think of any.

Er, Boro last season and us the season before

Offline David_Nab

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #409 on: June 03, 2018, 02:51:38 PM »
Out of interest, has a relegated team thrown vast sums at getting straight back up to and failed before? There must be examples but I can’t think of any.

Not really however previously it wouldn't be an issue as there was no FFP..

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #410 on: June 03, 2018, 02:54:48 PM »
He's just the latest in the long line of businessmen who think this football lark is easy and then find out it's not like running a normal company.

what exactly did you expect him to do differently? And if we are going to question his managerial appointments which is fine, given the state he bought us in there was no guarantee at all that whoever would have corrected things. As much as it very disappointing not to go up, we have no doubt arrested a very bad situation that could have left us where Sunderland is today. That we are now in the this position due to a "football" regulation and cannot spend out of it isn't directly tied to the stewardship of the owner. Like all people in business, mistakes are made. But in hindsight for the past two years he's not made that many that have really negatively impacted the club. He's put faith in managers and given them money to get us back up as quickly as possible. I was rather hoping for that post Randy.

You do wonder whether anybody advised Xia before he started spending money that we would run into problems with FFP.  Or did we get towards the end of the 2016/17 season and then somebody realised.

Online Toronto Villa

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #411 on: June 03, 2018, 03:09:40 PM »
He's just the latest in the long line of businessmen who think this football lark is easy and then find out it's not like running a normal company.

what exactly did you expect him to do differently? And if we are going to question his managerial appointments which is fine, given the state he bought us in there was no guarantee at all that whoever would have corrected things. As much as it very disappointing not to go up, we have no doubt arrested a very bad situation that could have left us where Sunderland is today. That we are now in the this position due to a "football" regulation and cannot spend out of it isn't directly tied to the stewardship of the owner. Like all people in business, mistakes are made. But in hindsight for the past two years he's not made that many that have really negatively impacted the club. He's put faith in managers and given them money to get us back up as quickly as possible. I was rather hoping for that post Randy.

You do wonder whether anybody advised Xia before he started spending money that we would run into problems with FFP.  Or did we get towards the end of the 2016/17 season and then somebody realised.

I think they have been fully aware but the rules have also got more stringent in that time. Clearly the mission was promotion supported by what should have been more than sufficient level of investment. And it was promotion at the first attempt under RDM, then Bruce. There was more than enough time for Bruce to correct the poor start. But in the end it hasn't worked out that way. I think they would have spoken about the consequences of not being promoted many times confident it wouldn't come to that. In the end it has.

Offline Brassneck

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #412 on: June 03, 2018, 03:20:55 PM »
He's just the latest in the long line of businessmen who think this football lark is easy and then find out it's not like running a normal company.

what exactly did you expect him to do differently? And if we are going to question his managerial appointments which is fine, given the state he bought us in there was no guarantee at all that whoever would have corrected things. As much as it very disappointing not to go up, we have no doubt arrested a very bad situation that could have left us where Sunderland is today. That we are now in the this position due to a "football" regulation and cannot spend out of it isn't directly tied to the stewardship of the owner. Like all people in business, mistakes are made. But in hindsight for the past two years he's not made that many that have really negatively impacted the club. He's put faith in managers and given them money to get us back up as quickly as possible. I was rather hoping for that post Randy.

You do wonder whether anybody advised Xia before he started spending money that we would run into problems with FFP.  Or did we get towards the end of the 2016/17 season and then somebody realised.

Wyness always stated that next year (meaning the season that's just finished) was OK but the worry was always going to be if we were still here for the following season (meaning next season).

I think they were fully aware of the ramifications of failure.  It would be an insult to them to suggest that they hadn't discussed and allowed for it.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #413 on: June 03, 2018, 03:36:09 PM »
Are there cases where clubs show willing, say find 50-60% of the required amount but still fall short?  I know we've fucked up over a series of years and we should have addressed the situation before however finding £40m is pretty impossible with out paralysing the club's future.  That shouldn't be the motivation of FFP.

Offline frank black

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #414 on: June 03, 2018, 03:49:45 PM »
Are there cases where clubs show willing, say find 50-60% of the required amount but still fall short?  I know we've fucked up over a series of years and we should have addressed the situation before however finding £40m is pretty impossible with out paralysing the club's future.  That shouldn't be the motivation of FFP.

It is the motivation , they don’t want clubs bankrolling success. So therefore forcing us into a fire sale and effectively paralyzing our future has achieved the objective.

Offline themossman

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #415 on: June 03, 2018, 04:29:59 PM »
Out of interest, has a relegated team thrown vast sums at getting straight back up to and failed before? There must be examples but I can’t think of any.

Er, Boro last season and us the season before

Er, why are you counting us as two teams and Boro were more or less neutral in terms of ins and outs last season.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #416 on: June 03, 2018, 06:17:33 PM »
He's just the latest in the long line of businessmen who think this football lark is easy and then find out it's not like running a normal company.

what exactly did you expect him to do differently? And if we are going to question his managerial appointments which is fine, given the state he bought us in there was no guarantee at all that whoever would have corrected things. As much as it very disappointing not to go up, we have no doubt arrested a very bad situation that could have left us where Sunderland is today. That we are now in the this position due to a "football" regulation and cannot spend out of it isn't directly tied to the stewardship of the owner. Like all people in business, mistakes are made. But in hindsight for the past two years he's not made that many that have really negatively impacted the club. He's put faith in managers and given them money to get us back up as quickly as possible. I was rather hoping for that post Randy.


Just an observation rather than a specific criticism. I think in most businesses, if you invest far more capital than your rivals then you expect a return. Football can be different. Maybe if he realised that he wouldn't have gone down the instant promotion route with Bruce, or maybe he wouldn't have bought us at all. End of the day, he gambled on getting up and lost. No-one can say we weren't aware of the price of losing.

Offline themossman

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #417 on: June 03, 2018, 06:47:30 PM »
The great thing is that in the last few years we’ve been an unsuccessful not spending as much as our rivals club AND an unsuccessful outspending all of our rivals club. A change is as good as a holiday as they say.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #418 on: June 03, 2018, 07:26:30 PM »
Out of interest, has a relegated team thrown vast sums at getting straight back up to and failed before? There must be examples but I can’t think of any.

Er, Boro last season and us the season before

Er, why are you counting us as two teams and Boro were more or less neutral in terms of ins and outs last season.


I didn't realise that Boro had recouped so much to be honest

Mind you, going by what i just read we are 25m in the black on last seasons transfer business once Amavi's fee is included

So, over our two seasons in the Championship we've only had a net spend of about 20m

Hardly throwing the kitchen sink at it



Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #419 on: June 03, 2018, 08:38:03 PM »
It's the wage bill. I bet this season's wasn't massively different to the last one in the PL. Plenty of big earners still on the books, players convinced to drop down a division, assembling the creme de la creme of Championship players.

It will not have come cheap.

 


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