Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Malandro]

I'm sorry, but I cannot be having any comments made by someone who didn't even watch the game in any shape or form.  Utterly ridiculous.

Thanks, Des.
Ridiculous indeed.
Are you suggesting that everyone on here who posts has watched every game? At least I was being honest!
I’ve watched enough Bruciegames to guess what might have happened and - along with the hyperbole of the match thread and national media - can piece together what happened.
But - whatever.






Oh, it was your irony; okay!

I wouldn’t worry, your thoughts on the game were quite correct.

[ktvillan]

No one is unhappy with the wins, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to think winning games whilst we're playing like this is unsustainable and, over a season, it will probably not be enough.

If we carry on with Bruce for a while I at least want to see him realise that he was a big part of the reason for us not getting promotion and start to look in the mirror a bit more.  The comments last night are getting a lot of attention because they're the same things he's said numerous times in the last 2 years and yet the problems haven't changed or ever really been properly addressed other than to throw more and more new players at it and see what happens.

What I took from his post game comments was that he was putting pressure on the board to close out the couple of loans he has lined up. He has been under pressure from supporters and possibly now at board level to play younger players.

I do think he has a very valid point in that if some of our young players aren't able to thrive away to Yeovil then maybe they aren't ready to play a significant part in a promotion chasing side.  Of course it conveniently ignores that some of his signings, Taylor, Bree, Lansbury, Hogan aren't up to it either...

But there's a school of thought that Bruce set it up so the youngsters were unlikely to thrive.  RHM up against two old school CBs and no doubt a fair few high balls pumped forward to him if Hogan's experiences are anything to go by. 

Another school of thought is that Bruce hasn't prepared them well enough to thrive by giving them chances in more solid selections. By his own admission they're only used to under 23 football.   

Might as well say they didn't thrive whilst playing in a straight jacket and a ball and chain.

[Nastylee]

There's also a school of thought that some of the youngsters aren't good enough despite the clamour. We've seen it all before with the likes of the Moores, Cooke, Delfouneso, Hogg and so on and so on. There were all going to be great according to fans yet most of the youngsters amounted to very little. It's worth noting that not every academy is going to have a conveyor belt of Rooney and Lampards. Some will make players that go one to have a pro career in the Football League and that's that. Grealish is a cut above anything yet he is a Championship player yet all we keep hearing is how RHM and co are going to transform our form and it's all Bruce's fault.

[Risso]

There's also a school of thought that some of the youngsters aren't good enough despite the clamour. We've seen it all before with the likes of the Moores, Cooke, Delfouneso, Hogg and so on and so on. There were all going to be great according to fans yet most of the youngsters amounted to very little. It's worth noting that not every academy is going to have a conveyor belt of Rooney and Lampards. Some will make players that go one to have a pro career in the Football League and that's that. Grealish is a cut above anything yet he is a Championship player yet all we keep hearing is how RHM and co are going to transform our form and it's all Bruce's fault.

I don't think people are expecting them all to come in and be wonder kids.  But last season, we played the kids from other clubs like Onomah and Tuanzebe who weren't very good, and yet ignored O'Hare completely who was tearing it up in the U23s.

[danno]

With the whole 'are the kids alright?' debate:

I'm a little disappointed the likes of Green RHM haven't been sent out on loan. Grealish had his spell at Notts county and came on a lot.

I understood last year Bruce being reluctant to play them as they're not proven at this level and things were so tight for the second place spot. Maybe he also felt we didn't have the squad depth to allow them to go out on loan, but we're poorer for it this year, as a year on they still have very little first team experience.

I don't know if Green or RHM are good enough, and I'm unlikely to find out over the next eight months. as they piecemeal accrue their rare 15 minute sub appearances under Bruce.

 

[manic-road]

There's also a school of thought that some of the youngsters aren't good enough despite the clamour. We've seen it all before with the likes of the Moores, Cooke, Delfouneso, Hogg and so on and so on. There were all going to be great according to fans yet most of the youngsters amounted to very little. It's worth noting that not every academy is going to have a conveyor belt of Rooney and Lampards. Some will make players that go one to have a pro career in the Football League and that's that. Grealish is a cut above anything yet he is a Championship player yet all we keep hearing is how RHM and co are going to transform our form and it's all Bruce's fault.

I don't think people are expecting them all to come in and be wonder kids.  But last season, we played the kids from other clubs like Onomah and Tuanzebe who weren't very good, and yet ignored O'Hare completely who was tearing it up in the U23s.

I saw quite a few U23 games last season and I certainly don't recall O'Hare tearing up the league.

[Nastylee]

There's the myth when it comes to youngsters. Blind faith!

[ktvillan]

There's also a school of thought that some of the youngsters aren't good enough despite the clamour. We've seen it all before with the likes of the Moores, Cooke, Delfouneso, Hogg and so on and so on. There were all going to be great according to fans yet most of the youngsters amounted to very little. It's worth noting that not every academy is going to have a conveyor belt of Rooney and Lampards. Some will make players that go one to have a pro career in the Football League and that's that. Grealish is a cut above anything yet he is a Championship player yet all we keep hearing is how RHM and co are going to transform our form and it's all Bruce's fault.

Who says they are all going to be Lampards or Rooneys?  No-one, and the hyperbole is ridiculous. They might not be good enough, but the point is how will you ever know unless they are given a proper chance?  They are no more unproven at this level than Johnson, Onomah and Tuanzebe are  or were.  But they were given chances, and in some games didn't look the part at all.   Some of the Villa ones you mention were given chances and didn't cut it for one reason or another (although isn't Hogg now a PL player?).  Would Grealish have come through if Sherwood hadn't given him a run of proper games (probably the only good thing he did)?  Why play other clubs' inexperienced youngsters and not our own?  Why are they rarely even on the bench?  It seems to be because he'd rather have two back-ups for whichever of Jedi, Whelan or Bjarnesson is playing defensive midfield, and a couple of extra full backs.  At least have one of them on the bench so if we're winning comfortably they can come on for a decent run-out.  He rarely seems to do that.

[Drummond]

When Luke Moore came through, he was being compared favourably by many to Rooney....

I think we've some good players, but haven't been watching the Academy/U23 league games. There is a huge leap though into a competitive match with a big crowd.

Green and RHM are getting some game-time but it will take a while and let's face it, with people criticising us for the way we've started this season, would you blame Bruce for not taking a chance?

[paul_e]

When Luke Moore came through, he was being compared favourably by many to Rooney....

I think we've some good players, but haven't been watching the Academy/U23 league games. There is a huge leap though into a competitive match with a big crowd.

Green and RHM are getting some game-time but it will take a while and let's face it, with people criticising us for the way we've started this season, would you blame Bruce for not taking a chance?

I blame him for not taking a chance on more of the young players in the last 6-7 games of his first season (when it was clear we were finishing mid table). I blame him for having a 'style' that is completely alien to what we do at all other levels so when players come in they're being asked to learn a completely new game. I blame him for blocking loans (O'Hare for example) and then giving the player about 5 minutes of game time in the next 4-5 months.

More broadly I blame Bruce for not giving a fuck about next year or the year after and being so short sighted that he's got us in a position of a 3rd season in the championship where our youth players have about 60-70 appearances between them and the vast majority of those are from Davis and Green.  JDH played well in the Carabao cup games last year and then didn't get a sniff for a year until Tuesday.

The kids might not be good enough but unless we have a structure in place to find out how good they can be we run a risk of never knowing.  There have been enough players who've left us to go on to decent careers to suggest that our academy isn't far off (Robinson and Johnson for example look easily good enough to add something to our current squad and yet they got about 15 appearances between them).

[Drummond]

When Luke Moore came through, he was being compared favourably by many to Rooney....

I think we've some good players, but haven't been watching the Academy/U23 league games. There is a huge leap though into a competitive match with a big crowd.

Green and RHM are getting some game-time but it will take a while and let's face it, with people criticising us for the way we've started this season, would you blame Bruce for not taking a chance?

I blame him for not taking a chance on more of the young players in the last 6-7 games of his first season (when it was clear we were finishing mid table). I blame him for having a 'style' that is completely alien to what we do at all other levels so when players come in they're being asked to learn a completely new game. I blame him for blocking loans (O'Hare for example) and then giving the player about 5 minutes of game time in the next 4-5 months.

More broadly I blame Bruce for not giving a fuck about next year or the year after and being so short sighted that he's got us in a position of a 3rd season in the championship where our youth players have about 60-70 appearances between them and the vast majority of those are from Davis and Green.  JDH played well in the Carabao cup games last year and then didn't get a sniff for a year until Tuesday.

The kids might not be good enough but unless we have a structure in place to find out how good they can be we run a risk of never knowing.  There have been enough players who've left us to go on to decent careers to suggest that our academy isn't far off (Robinson and Johnson for example look easily good enough to add something to our current squad and yet they got about 15 appearances between them).

1. Maybe they weren't good enough
2. I'm not sure you can blame Bruce for having a different 'style', that was down to the DoF and previous regime.
3. Maybe he wanted the younger players to train with our first team rather than sending them out and perhaps he thought they'd improve enough to get another shot.

4. Why should he be bothered about next year when nobody seems to think he'll have a job regardless?

5. Isn't the U23 the place where they are expected to learn and develop?

[paul_e]

When Luke Moore came through, he was being compared favourably by many to Rooney....

I think we've some good players, but haven't been watching the Academy/U23 league games. There is a huge leap though into a competitive match with a big crowd.

Green and RHM are getting some game-time but it will take a while and let's face it, with people criticising us for the way we've started this season, would you blame Bruce for not taking a chance?

I blame him for not taking a chance on more of the young players in the last 6-7 games of his first season (when it was clear we were finishing mid table). I blame him for having a 'style' that is completely alien to what we do at all other levels so when players come in they're being asked to learn a completely new game. I blame him for blocking loans (O'Hare for example) and then giving the player about 5 minutes of game time in the next 4-5 months.

More broadly I blame Bruce for not giving a fuck about next year or the year after and being so short sighted that he's got us in a position of a 3rd season in the championship where our youth players have about 60-70 appearances between them and the vast majority of those are from Davis and Green.  JDH played well in the Carabao cup games last year and then didn't get a sniff for a year until Tuesday.

The kids might not be good enough but unless we have a structure in place to find out how good they can be we run a risk of never knowing.  There have been enough players who've left us to go on to decent careers to suggest that our academy isn't far off (Robinson and Johnson for example look easily good enough to add something to our current squad and yet they got about 15 appearances between them).

1. Maybe they weren't good enough
2. I'm not sure you can blame Bruce for having a different 'style', that was down to the DoF and previous regime.
3. Maybe he wanted the younger players to train with our first team rather than sending them out and perhaps he thought they'd improve enough to get another shot.

4. Why should he be bothered about next year when nobody seems to think he'll have a job regardless?

5. Isn't the U23 the place where they are expected to learn and develop?

1. Maybe, who knows. that's kinda the point.
2. The quotes were important, most of us can't work out what his style is.
3. Maybe he did, but given it's hard to see much evidence of us having worked on stuff in training I'm not sure what the point would be.
4. because it's part of his job?
5. yes, until they're ready to step up. Right now we have loads of players who are too good to be regular U23 players but have nowhere to progress to. This is one of the reasons I like the idea of us linking up with a smaller club and giving them a steady stream of our youngsters (like Chelsea do with Vitesse).

[john e]

it's deja vu on here for the third season running

[tomd2103]

There's also a school of thought that some of the youngsters aren't good enough despite the clamour. We've seen it all before with the likes of the Moores, Cooke, Delfouneso, Hogg and so on and so on. There were all going to be great according to fans yet most of the youngsters amounted to very little. It's worth noting that not every academy is going to have a conveyor belt of Rooney and Lampards. Some will make players that go one to have a pro career in the Football League and that's that. Grealish is a cut above anything yet he is a Championship player yet all we keep hearing is how RHM and co are going to transform our form and it's all Bruce's fault.

I wasn’t his biggest fan when he was here, but Hogg has played pretty regularly for Huddersfield in the Premier League hasn’t he?  You are correct that every youngster is not going to be good enough though and in that case you need to handle them in a way that you can get a bit of dough for them if that is the case. 

[footyskillz]

What's Bruce been saying then pre match v Ipswich ??