Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Risso]

And the Sky interview is similar to the OS.

I'm really bemused by the response? The performance was utter mince. This has been a big learning curve and the young players know it and ought to realise that a walking pace isn't good enough and how far physically they must come to get a foothold in the game.

He's critical of the entire performance and rightfully so.

I would hope they're far more up for it off the ball against Ipswich and we add a bit more sense at the back with Axel at centre half and full backs at full back.

He was a lot more critical in the Sky interview than he was the OS one.

It's easy blaming the kids, didn't see him doing the same with Jedinak on Saturday after an appalling performance.

[paul_e]

As I put on the post match thread last night, I don't think it was about criticising the kids as such, I'm convinced it was him trying to force the board to let him sign some more experienced players. He did the same when Grealish got injured and made  abig deal about how central he was to everything and used it as leverage to get Snodgrass, he called McCormack out at just the right time to get the money to buy Hogan. He uses poor performances (and other circumstances) in or around the transfer windows to get his way with more signings, he's done it everywhere. At Sunderland the excuses were always ramped up in August and January (I've been told) and it's always "it's not my fault, the players just didn't do what I wanted them to and it's not good enough".

Think about it, how times have we put in performances that he won't accept and that aren't good enough (in his words) and how many of them are around transfer windows?

[The Edge]

trouble is most of them aren't ready for the first team and do need loans. For example RHM was dominated by Yeovil's two big centre backs - if the lad really wants to cement a first team place he's got to  learn to dominate them. The only hope he has of doing that is to get 30 plus games consecutively , and that'snot going to happen yet with us.

RHM was dominated by Yeovils defensive tanks because he was thrown into that game as a lone striker expected to hold the line against them. His game is about getting behind players like that with pass and move type football that effectively takes away the advantage of huge lumps like that. To merely stick him in against them with no game plan was never going to work. I can appreciate Bruce's "not good enough" honest appraisal.But he's either being disingenuous or tactically inept with his "proper football" comment designed to blame the young kids. "Proper football" would mean playing with an actual game plan designed to maximise the abilities of the players he picks to play against whichever opposition we come up against.

[Drummond]

The only stats that count are that we achieved fewer points than 3 other teams in the 17/18 seaon, and then at Wembley scored fewer goals than Fulham.

The only stats that matter to you to win your argument you mean?

[robleflaneur]

trouble is most of them aren't ready for the first team and do need loans. For example RHM was dominated by Yeovil's two big centre backs - if the lad really wants to cement a first team place he's got to  learn to dominate them. The only hope he has of doing that is to get 30 plus games consecutively , and that'snot going to happen yet with us.

RHM was dominated by Yeovils defencive tanks because he was thrown into that game as a lone striker expected to hold the line against them. His game is about getting behind players like that with pass and move type football that effectively takes away the advantage of huge lumps like that. To merely stick him in against them with no game plan was never going to work. I can appreciate Bruce's "not good enough" honest appraisal.But he's either being disingenuous or tactically inept with his "proper football" comment designed to blame the young kids. "Proper football" would mean playing with an actual game plan designed to maximise the abilities of the players he picks to play against whichever opposition we come up against.

Spot on.
It's Bruce's inability to 'maximise the abilities of the players' that is so damaging .

[Risso]

The only stats that count are that we achieved fewer points than 3 other teams in the 17/18 seaon, and then at Wembley scored fewer goals than Fulham.

The only stats that matter to you to win your argument you mean?

Eh?  Was there anything more important than not going up in terms of the club and its future?  You don't win any trophies or get any more prize money for having the most home wins, especially when it isn't even true.  Stating that we didn't get promoted is hardly cherry picking figures to make a point.

[Drummond]

He didn't throw anyone under the bus, the only person he singled out was the keeper for doing ok.

I'm not sure what he was supposed to say, on here we were critical, why shouldn't he be? He was honest, we weren't good enough, and the players needed to know that too. There were enough senior players in that team to have doen better.

De Laet
Elphick
Taylor
Whelan
Hourihane

I'm not sure that Doyle-Hayes, Green and RHM will have felt they were blamed. RHM got no real help, Green was ok but patchy and Doyle-Hayes needs more games.

There were too many misplaced passes, too often we were second to the ball, and there wasn't enough hunger shown, he's right it did have the air of a pre-season friendly.

If the players can't accept criticism, then they shouldn't be in the game.

[Drummond]

Oh, and Albert, so nondescript I forgot he played.

[Drummond]

The only stats that count are that we achieved fewer points than 3 other teams in the 17/18 seaon, and then at Wembley scored fewer goals than Fulham.

The only stats that matter to you to win your argument you mean?

Eh?  Was there anything more important than not going up in terms of the club and its future?  You don't win any trophies or get any more prize money for having the most home wins, especially when it isn't even true.  Stating that we didn't get promoted is hardly cherry picking figures to make a point.

You said "The only stats that count are..." but there's more to it isn't there?

[paul_e]

I think if you like Bruce then a line like (I'm paraphrasing slightly)

"The young boys struggled, I think it shows the difference now they've played real football."

Comes across as ok. If you don't that reads very much like he's making a point that the kids aren't good enough even though they've done everything they can with the U23s.

What really needs to happen though is he needs to show that he has some idea of what needs to happen to bridge that gap. Pointing it out is one thing but anyone can do that, the only person who can put measures in place to resolve it is him, and after 2 years he's no closer to doing that. JDH, RHM and Green all have the talent but throwing them into a team that's barely trained together does nothing to help them, As many have said RHM isn't a target man who'll hold the ball up for 10-15 seconds whilst the midfield gets up to him, so playing him on his own and kicking long balls at him is pointless, just like it's pointless when we do it with Hogan, that's not because RHM is 19 and unprepared, it's because he's being asked to do a job that is totally unsuited to him.

[Nunkin1965]

I think the younger guys find it tough because when they get starting opportunities its in a side that’s hardly played together.
They’ve got no chance.
Playing RHM against two units was never going to work and that's down to bad management.

[Mister E]

The whole debacle last night, and its aftermath of press comments, demonstrates something about the manager: it is he who sets up at team for a game; he who gives instructions and gees people up; he who chooses how the team will play on the night; he who provides game management.
on most of these criteria he has, once again, failed.
I'm sure the new investors will see through him, and soon.

[dave.woodhall]

The whole debacle last night, and its aftermath of press comments, demonstrates something about the manager: it is he who sets up at team for a game; he who gives instructions and gees people up; he who chooses how the team will play on the night; he who provides game management.
on most of these criteria he has, once again, failed.
I'm sure the new investors will see through him, and soon.

Sorry, I thought we won.

[Risso]

The only stats that count are that we achieved fewer points than 3 other teams in the 17/18 seaon, and then at Wembley scored fewer goals than Fulham.

The only stats that matter to you to win your argument you mean?

Eh?  Was there anything more important than not going up in terms of the club and its future?  You don't win any trophies or get any more prize money for having the most home wins, especially when it isn't even true.  Stating that we didn't get promoted is hardly cherry picking figures to make a point.

You said "The only stats that count are..." but there's more to it isn't there?

I honestly can't see the point you're trying to make.  As I said, the target for last season was promotion, and all of the stats that led to it, be it wins, losses, goals scored, everything, doesn't really matter because we didn't go up.  You could be the top scorers in the FA Cup one season, win every game up to the final 4-0 and then lose the final 1-0 to a team who drew 0-0 in every round and won on penalties.  All that would matter though is who won the cup. 

(Us this year, obviously.)

[Taylor]

The whole debacle last night, and its aftermath of press comments, demonstrates something about the manager: it is he who sets up at team for a game; he who gives instructions and gees people up; he who chooses how the team will play on the night; he who provides game management.
on most of these criteria he has, once again, failed.
I'm sure the new investors will see through him, and soon.

Maybe he did give instructions but the players didn't follow them.

I read on here so often that Villa don't play with any discernible style or plan (as if forgetting that there is another team on the pitch trying to stop us doing just that). I disagree, when I watch us I see a team pressing the opposition high up and getting the ball quickly to our wide players. When it doesn't work it is usually down to Albert's/ Elmo's/ De Laet's poor final ball. Luckily we have Grealish and now McGinn to provide something extra, and unlock the other team's defences. It worked well enough to get us to the play off final last season, let's hope we can go that bit further this time.