Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[villabear]

He spent whatever he was allowed to spend by the club, assembled a wage bill that I believe was larger than anyone else in the division and then here's the part in the month of July he seems to have got totally away with, s He Failed in his objective , yes He Failed, were still in the Championship, the drawbridge has been pulled up on the wallet, we have a squad with gaping holes in and now looking for kids to fill those holes, that maybe have max 30 games between them, will Bruce go for those kids, who if and I know its a big if, would help with FFP, because their wages are not big, if he has a choice I would like to bet a large amount on the answer being No and he goes  -with the likes of Huth, McGoldrick. Stupidity is doing the same thing time and time again, when it does not work and we are going into
the 2018-19 season with a stupid owner and a stupid manager.
 

Still not calmed down from Wembley then Mr B?

[john e]

I dont think Bruce spent anything like £30million.

Particularly not if the outgoings are considered during his time....Amavi, Westwood, Ayew, Gestede, Baker, Bacuna, Veretout at al

He has still spent the  money.

has anyone worked out how much yet
apparently it was no where near 30 mill

[paul_e]

I dont think Bruce spent anything like £30million.

Particularly not if the outgoings are considered during his time....Amavi, Westwood, Ayew, Gestede, Baker, Bacuna, Veretout at al

He has still spent the  money.

has anyone worked out how much yet
apparently it was no where near 30 mill

I suspect £30m is pretty accurate for what he's spent (with loan fees included) but some people insist on only seeing things as 'net spend' in which case he's in profit but has done it by selling players with resale value and replacing them, in the main, with people who will see out their contracts and leave us for free.

[john e]

I dont think Bruce spent anything like £30million.

Particularly not if the outgoings are considered during his time....Amavi, Westwood, Ayew, Gestede, Baker, Bacuna, Veretout at al

He has still spent the  money.

has anyone worked out how much yet
apparently it was no where near 30 mill

I suspect £30m is pretty accurate for what he's spent (with loan fees included) but some people insist on only seeing things as 'net spend' in which case he's in profit but has done it by selling players with resale value and replacing them, in the main, with people who will see out their contracts and leave us for free.

i don't want loan fees included or wages,
i know he has sold players he didn't want and with that money bought in the players that he did want

all the players he has signed are still with us, these are the ones we will start the season with

 these are the players he has brought to build his squad and his team but apparently the money he has actually spent on bringing his own players in has been no where near 30 mill so im asking how much as he spent

[chrisw1]

I don't see why you wouldn't include loan fees?  I'd agree excluding wages is probably sensible as the players he's moved on would have been paid wages too.

[old man villa fan]

I don't see why you wouldn't include loan fees?  I'd agree excluding wages is probably sensible as the players he's moved on would have been paid wages too.

I agree. You have to include loan fees as Bruce has spent money he has raised on these and that money will not come back. It is similar to buying a player that never plays but without the on going wages.

[sirlordbaltimore]

I don't see why you wouldn't include loan fees?  I'd agree excluding wages is probably sensible as the players he's moved on would have been paid wages too.

I agree. You have to include loan fees as Bruce has spent money he has raised on these and that money will not come back. It is similar to buying a player that never plays but without the on going wages.

How do we find out the loan fees to include them ?

And do we know the loan fees we charged teams for our players the other way ?

[paul_e]

I don't see why you wouldn't include loan fees?  I'd agree excluding wages is probably sensible as the players he's moved on would have been paid wages too.

I agree. You have to include loan fees as Bruce has spent money he has raised on these and that money will not come back. It is similar to buying a player that never plays but without the on going wages.

How do we find out the loan fees to include them ?

And do we know the loan fees we charged teams for our players the other way ?

Well the latter is irrelevant because we've quite clearly got fuck all to spend due to FFP (and maybe other things) so what income we've made is largely insignificant.

Finding out the real value of loan fees is not really all that dissimilar to finding out transfer fees.  We go with the guesses in the press until we get a look at the accounts.

Referring back to John's point, I never included wages, I mentioned them to explain why I don't think net spend means anything because it is all in context.  under RDM we spent a fortune but the real net spend under him is only available when most of those players have moved on. Right now I think we'd make a profit on Chester, break even on Kodjia and lose money on everyone else he signed so his net effect on the clubs finances will be terrible and, so far, Bruce is nearly as bad.  On the flip side the Sherwood/Reilly splurge has pretty much broken even in terms of finances but the effect on the pitch was clearly massive and some of the wages will have been ridiculous.

[achilles]

I don't see why you wouldn't include loan fees?  I'd agree excluding wages is probably sensible as the players he's moved on would have been paid wages too.

The problem with that is the players we have got rid of was partially due to them NOT being on utterly ridiculous wages, now we are stuck with players on ridiculous wages who won't go anywhere unless they get paid the same which in the majority of cases will not happen!

[john e]

I see people saying avoiding relegation or not doing a Sunderland is all that can be expected of Bruce next season

the point I was trying to make was all the players that Bruce had bought are still with us.
the ones he picked the ones he thought were good enough improvements on what went before the ones he brought to build the bright new future will all probably be at the club for the start of the season

I thought he spent around 30 mill which as I pointed out in my post was a lot of money in this league, but was told it was ‘no where near’ that much

so I ask how much was it then?
how much did the squad that will start next season cost to bring in ?

that’s why I’m not interested in loans or wages money as that was last season and it’s gone.
what will remain is all the players he brought, how much did he spend ?

this for me is how a manager should be judged  on what he builds and how he spends the money he’s given
I admit I think Bruce is a walking disaster but if he didn’t spend anywhere near 30 mill I’d like to know as I’m doing him a disservice

[CJ]

I see people saying avoiding relegation or not doing a Sunderland is all that can be expected of Bruce next season

I thought he spent around 30 mill which as I pointed out in my post was a lot of money in this league, but was told it was ‘no where near’ that much

so I ask how much was it then?
how much did the squad that will start next season cost to bring in ?

that’s why I’m not interested in loans or wages money as that was last season and it’s gone.
what will remain is all the players he brought, how m
the point I was trying to make was all the players that Bruce had bought are still with us.
the ones he picked the ones he thought were good enough improvements on what went before the ones he brought to build the bright new future will all probably be at the club for the start of the seasonuch did he spend ?

this for me is how a manager should be judged  on what he builds and how he spends the money he’s given
I admit I think Bruce is a walking disaster but if he didn’t spend anywhere near 30 mill I’d like to know as I’m doing him a disservice

According to Transfermarkt, in straight transfer fees he's bought 7 players - Hogan £9.5m, Bree £3.15m, Hourihane £3.15m, Lansbury £3.06m, Bjarnason £1.8m, Whelan £1.53m, and Elmohamady £900k - so £23.09m. I haven't included Taylor as he looked like a straight swap for Ayew.

To offset that he's offloaded about £36.25-38.25m depending on finding an accurate figure for Amavi - Gestede £6m, Westwood £5.2m, Veretout £6.3m, Baker £3.9m, Sanchez £2.7m, Bacuna £1.35m, Gollini £3.8m, and Amavi £7-9m. So a net spend of -£13.1-15.1m. 

As others have said though, that's just straight numbers and doesn't reflect the relative future value of players brought in and those sold. I can't find details of loan values but perhaps they'd be balanced by players we've loaned out

[john e]

I see people saying avoiding relegation or not doing a Sunderland is all that can be expected of Bruce next season

I thought he spent around 30 mill which as I pointed out in my post was a lot of money in this league, but was told it was ‘no where near’ that much

so I ask how much was it then?
how much did the squad that will start next season cost to bring in ?

that’s why I’m not interested in loans or wages money as that was last season and it’s gone.
what will remain is all the players he brought, how m
the point I was trying to make was all the players that Bruce had bought are still with us.
the ones he picked the ones he thought were good enough improvements on what went before the ones he brought to build the bright new future will all probably be at the club for the start of the seasonuch did he spend ?

this for me is how a manager should be judged  on what he builds and how he spends the money he’s given
I admit I think Bruce is a walking disaster but if he didn’t spend anywhere near 30 mill I’d like to know as I’m doing him a disservice

According to Transfermarkt, in straight transfer fees he's bought 7 players - Hogan £9.5m, Bree £3.15m, Hourihane £3.15m, Lansbury £3.06m, Bjarnason £1.8m, Whelan £1.53m, and Elmohamady £900k - so £23.09m. I haven't included Taylor as he looked like a straight swap for Ayew.

To offset that he's offloaded about £36.25-38.25m depending on finding an accurate figure for Amavi - Gestede £6m, Westwood £5.2m, Veretout £6.3m, Baker £3.9m, Sanchez £2.7m, Bacuna £1.35m, Gollini £3.8m, and Amavi £7-9m. So a net spend of -£13.1-15.1m. 

As others have said though, that's just straight numbers and doesn't reflect the relative future value of players brought in and those sold. I can't find details of loan values but perhaps they'd be balanced by players we've loaned out

Thank you

so he’s spent 23.9 mill + whatever Ayew was worth on players we will start next season with

So it’s not far of 30 mill then as I said

[ChicagoLion]

So if you include Ayew he has spent over 30 million then.

[john e]

So if you include Ayew he has spent over 30 million then.

depends how you value Ayew

[CJ]

So if you include Ayew he has spent over 30 million then.

depends how you value Ayew

I saw somewhere that the Taylor/Ayew swap was valued at around £5.2m each way which would make the total £29.1m