Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Toronto Villa]

I've softened on my position especially given what he's gone through personally. That has to have taken a massive toll mentally. The one thing that cannot be questioned is that for the first time in ages we feel like a club again all pulling in the same direction. The chairman is passionate and cares and it is being felt all the way through to the fans. It feels like there is a connection again and the union that the players have with each other is very evident on their faces. I don't think Bruce will last long as a PL manager should we go up, but if we do he deserves a crack at it.

[paul_e]

I'm not sure about this underestimating thing.  It's true that we had been shit for a long time before he arrived but if you look at the squad he inherited and then add on the freedom he had in the transfer market I think any competent manager would've got us into the playoffs. That's not denying that his record has been good, and he's very close to doing the job he was employed to do, but I don't think it's a particular massive achievement either.

It's just conjecture though isn't it?  The squad he inherited was disjointed, unbalanced and massively under performing.  I'm not sure 'any competent manager' would have achieved the payoffs.  Indeed I strongly suspect many otherwise competent managers would have struggled to stop the downwards trajectory.  But of course we'll never know.  What we do know is we have a stable team with good morale, excellent worth ethic and 1 win from promotion.  I suspect most people outside of internet fan forums think that is a major achievement.

Of course it's conjecture because we'll never know if things would've panned out differently.  My point is that I will never see 4th in the championship as a 'major achievement' for this club, yes we were in a mess but given the guy we initially gave the chance to fix it was binned after 11 games I don't think it's unreasonable to expect success after 80 odd games under his replacement.

As for what you suspect other fans think, I don't really care because I'm not talking to them.

Just to clarify though, if we win the final then it's job done and no one can argue with that but I don't think he'll have over-achieved or that it's a completely unexpected finish to the season.  Cardiff fans can call Warnock's job there a major achievement because most of them would've been happy with a top half finish, we have a manager who's met expectations, that's not a bad thing but it's also not something that I'd consider to be anything like as difficult as you're trying to suggest.

[Monty]

When people say that Bruce as earned the right to 'have a go' in the Premier League, I want to know what he's meant to be having a go at exactly. What would our Premier League plan be, in other words? Just plain survival? Mid-table and who cares how we get there, which is the same as survival? Mid-table with a long-term plan, developing a style, young players etc? Have a real crack at the top 8, even? Bruce is suited to two of those, but noticeably the least ambitious two.

Anyway, lose on the 26th and I think this conversation is moot - we'll need a rebuild with less money and a few players sold I imagine, and I just think we'd need someone else to do that.

[old man villa fan]

When people say that Bruce as earned the right to 'have a go' in the Premier League, I want to know what he's meant to be having a go at exactly. What would our Premier League plan be, in other words? Just plain survival? Mid-table and who cares how we get there, which is the same as survival? Mid-table with a long-term plan, developing a style, young players etc? Have a real crack at the top 8, even? Bruce is suited to two of those, but noticeably the least ambitious two.

Anyway, lose on the 26th and I think this conversation is moot - we'll need a rebuild with less money and a few players sold I imagine, and I just think we'd need someone else to do that.

Nobody earns the right to 'have a go'.  We select the best person for the job next season and going forward.  The Club is bigger and more important than the manager.

[ktvillan]

4th in the Championship with the cost of our squad is no major achievement at all, it's the bare minimum, and in my opinion even something of a failure.  Top 2 should have been achievable with our resources.  We really weren't in a tailspin when Bruce took over, we were stuttering but reasonably stable.  I don't think there was ever any danger we would do a Sunderland.  I firmly believe that if RDM and Clarke had been given the slack and time that Bruce has been granted they would have achieved at least as much as Bruce and possibly more and sooner.   To say Bruce has done a fantastic job in turning us around is something of an exaggeration in my view, and in any case he took his bloody time.  I know he's had his personal traumas and fair play to him for soldiering on,   but that's a separate issue to the job he's done.   I think it's been sub-standard in both achievement and above all entertainment value.  I have honestly never been so bored watching Villa, not even under TSM, with his keep it tight and nick a goal mentality.  We don't deserve to go up because we only finished 4th, and a laboured 4th at that.   Whether we do go up or not, time to be ruthless.  If we stay down he's failed, full stop, and should go.  If we go up, there is no track record to say that he can achieve anything there, and we should look for someone better.   I don't buy that coming 4th in the Championship with the most expensive squad ever to play there, and a fair way behind a tupenny hapenny Cardiff team who will almost certainly come straight back down, earns you a crack at the premier league.  To keep him would be yet another example of the strange tendency for football to reward mediocrity and even failure.     

[mike]

4th in the Championship with the cost of our squad is no major achievement at all, it's the bare minimum, and in my opinion even something of a failure.  Top 2 should have been achievable with our resources.  We really weren't in a tailspin when Bruce took over, we were stuttering but reasonably stable.  I don't think there was ever any danger we would do a Sunderland.  I firmly believe that if RDM and Clarke had been given the slack and time that Bruce has been granted they would have achieved at least as much as Bruce and possibly more and sooner.   To say Bruce has done a fantastic job in turning us around is something of an exaggeration in my view, and in any case he took his bloody time.  I know he's had his personal traumas and fair play to him for soldiering on,   but that's a separate issue to the job he's done.   I think it's been sub-standard in both achievement and above all entertainment value.  I have honestly never been so bored watching Villa, not even under TSM, with his keep it tight and nick a goal mentality.  We don't deserve to go up because we only finished 4th, and a laboured 4th at that.   Whether we do go up or not, time to be ruthless.  If we stay down he's failed, full stop, and should go.  If we go up, there is no track record to say that he can achieve anything there, and we should look for someone better.   I don't buy that coming 4th in the Championship with the most expensive squad ever to play there, and a fair way behind a tupenny hapenny Cardiff team who will almost certainly come straight back down, earns you a crack at the premier league.  To keep him would be yet another example of the strange tendency for football to reward mediocrity and even failure.     

Harsh but true.

[Drummond]

4th in the Championship with the cost of our squad is no major achievement at all, it's the bare minimum, and in my opinion even something of a failure.  Top 2 should have been achievable with our resources.  We really weren't in a tailspin when Bruce took over, we were stuttering but reasonably stable.  I don't think there was ever any danger we would do a Sunderland.  I firmly believe that if RDM and Clarke had been given the slack and time that Bruce has been granted they would have achieved at least as much as Bruce and possibly more and sooner.   To say Bruce has done a fantastic job in turning us around is something of an exaggeration in my view, and in any case he took his bloody time.  I know he's had his personal traumas and fair play to him for soldiering on,   but that's a separate issue to the job he's done.   I think it's been sub-standard in both achievement and above all entertainment value.  I have honestly never been so bored watching Villa, not even under TSM, with his keep it tight and nick a goal mentality.  We don't deserve to go up because we only finished 4th, and a laboured 4th at that.   Whether we do go up or not, time to be ruthless.  If we stay down he's failed, full stop, and should go.  If we go up, there is no track record to say that he can achieve anything there, and we should look for someone better.   I don't buy that coming 4th in the Championship with the most expensive squad ever to play there, and a fair way behind a tupenny hapenny Cardiff team who will almost certainly come straight back down, earns you a crack at the premier league.  To keep him would be yet another example of the strange tendency for football to reward mediocrity and even failure.     

Harsh but true.

In the season Leicester won the league should every other club have sacked their manager?

Even the clubs who've spent a lot in the top division have taken their time to start winning. It takes a while to blend, build a team and have the right attitude and approach.

[TonyD]

If we go up it’s thank you Bruce and goodbye.
The same if we don’t.

[olaftab]

In the season Leicester won the league should every other club have sacked their manager?

Totally ridiculous question so my ridiculous reply is YES.

[gpbarr]

Bruce will be sacked if we lose on 26th, he wont if we win on 26th. 

[Drummond]

In the season Leicester won the league should every other club have sacked their manager?

Totally ridiculous question so my ridiculous reply is YES.

It is a ridiculous question that shows up the issue for what it is.

[chrisw1]

If we go up it’s thank you Bruce and goodbye.
The same if we don’t.

It's not though.  No chance whatsoever if we go up and very, doubtful if we don't.

[Mister E]

4th in the Championship with the cost of our squad is no major achievement at all, it's the bare minimum, and in my opinion even something of a failure.  Top 2 should have been achievable with our resources.  We really weren't in a tailspin when Bruce took over, we were stuttering but reasonably stable.  I don't think there was ever any danger we would do a Sunderland.  I firmly believe that if RDM and Clarke had been given the slack and time that Bruce has been granted they would have achieved at least as much as Bruce and possibly more and sooner.   To say Bruce has done a fantastic job in turning us around is something of an exaggeration in my view, and in any case he took his bloody time.  I know he's had his personal traumas and fair play to him for soldiering on,   but that's a separate issue to the job he's done.   I think it's been sub-standard in both achievement and above all entertainment value.  I have honestly never been so bored watching Villa, not even under TSM, with his keep it tight and nick a goal mentality.  We don't deserve to go up because we only finished 4th, and a laboured 4th at that.   Whether we do go up or not, time to be ruthless.  If we stay down he's failed, full stop, and should go.  If we go up, there is no track record to say that he can achieve anything there, and we should look for someone better.   I don't buy that coming 4th in the Championship with the most expensive squad ever to play there, and a fair way behind a tupenny hapenny Cardiff team who will almost certainly come straight back down, earns you a crack at the premier league.  To keep him would be yet another example of the strange tendency for football to reward mediocrity and even failure.     

I can certainly sympathise with this view.

[Clampy]

4th in the Championship with the cost of our squad is no major achievement at all, it's the bare minimum, and in my opinion even something of a failure.  Top 2 should have been achievable with our resources.  We really weren't in a tailspin when Bruce took over, we were stuttering but reasonably stable.  I don't think there was ever any danger we would do a Sunderland.  I firmly believe that if RDM and Clarke had been given the slack and time that Bruce has been granted they would have achieved at least as much as Bruce and possibly more and sooner.   To say Bruce has done a fantastic job in turning us around is something of an exaggeration in my view, and in any case he took his bloody time.  I know he's had his personal traumas and fair play to him for soldiering on,   but that's a separate issue to the job he's done.   I think it's been sub-standard in both achievement and above all entertainment value.  I have honestly never been so bored watching Villa, not even under TSM, with his keep it tight and nick a goal mentality.  We don't deserve to go up because we only finished 4th, and a laboured 4th at that.   Whether we do go up or not, time to be ruthless.  If we stay down he's failed, full stop, and should go.  If we go up, there is no track record to say that he can achieve anything there, and we should look for someone better.   I don't buy that coming 4th in the Championship with the most expensive squad ever to play there, and a fair way behind a tupenny hapenny Cardiff team who will almost certainly come straight back down, earns you a crack at the premier league.  To keep him would be yet another example of the strange tendency for football to reward mediocrity and even failure.     

You say we were not in a tailspin but we were 3rd from bottom when he came in. Also this 'nick a goal and keep it tight' mentality you speak of. You're making it sound as if that happened every game. It didn't.

Also, if you've honestly never been so bored of watching his football, i'll have any spare reference you don't wish to use for the final. Thank you in advance.

[Dante Lavelli]

All I can say is be careful for what we wish for. The club needs stability not a change of manager at the first point of failure

Not a fan of Bruce, by any stretch, but the club has definitely needed a period of stability. 

Hopefully during Bruce's 2 years Round and the team in the background have had time to build a meaningful "Villa Engine" so some of Bruce's weaknesses (building teams for the future etc, scouting) are less prevalent.