Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[cdbearsfan]

I'm still all for showing him the door at the end of the season. Would we really want Bruce having £100M + to spend on players should we get promoted?  Could he attract them?  Would he know how to play them?   

The results are improving he has also got a togetherness within the team/squad of late, that's good management by him.  Even so, as pleasing as that is the football is still not great really is it?

Genuine question as I rarely watch much of the Premier League, but is the football that Burnley,  Bournemouth or Watford playing "really great"? I'll settle for being less than great and staying up comfortably.

We can worry about turning into an Astonian version of the Mighty Magyars or 1974 Holland a few seasons down the line.

[Brend'Watkins]

I'm still all for showing him the door at the end of the season. Would we really want Bruce having £100M + to spend on players should we get promoted?  Could he attract them?  Would he know how to play them?   

The results are improving he has also got a togetherness within the team/squad of late, that's good management by him.  Even so, as pleasing as that is the football is still not great really is it?

Genuine question as I rarely watch much of the Premier League, but is the football that Burnley,  Bournemouth or Watford playing "really great"? I'll settle for being less than great and staying up comfortably.

We can worry about turning into an Astonian version of the Mighty Magyars or 1974 Holland a few seasons down the line.

I've seen Bournmouth a few times, they were excellent against Arsenal.  Even Watford who are faltering don't look too bad.  All of them could pass the ball consistantly.

I'd settle for that for starters.

[KevinGage]

Aye, I'd still be up for moving him on at the end of the season should we go up.

If he achieves promotion, he probably does deserve a crack at it in the top flight.

But football isn't really about sentiment or what you deserve.  As Bruce himself will know only too well.  He has walked out on a fair few clubs when a better option has come along.

The football we play -even against modest opposition in the Championship- is laboured and generally naff.  Unless he undergoes some sort conversion in the summer, that is unlikely to change.

Heartfelt thanks and a big juicy pay-off would be the way to go.

[paul_e]

Sunderland were 16th when he left, so suggesting that they were "down" is just telling fibs.

Or it's having lots of family and friends who support them who all said that they were on their way down that season.  From the end of the January when we got Bent from them until he was sacked they had 5 wins, 5 draws and 17 defeats.  You can't spin that as a guy who was doing a good job.  Most of the people I know put it down to him signing far too many players (they spent about £30m but spread it on 13 players) in the summer when what they needed was 3-4 good signings.  Again, that's almost exactly like Lambert after his first season with us, or what Sherwood did.

This why the amount he spent matters, the fixation with net spend on here is silly sometimes, if you have £100m to spend it's worth the same regardless of whether it's come from selling a superstar for a fortune or from the owners bank account.  If you sign shit like Connor Wickham for £12m he's still shit regardless of where the money came from.  He had more than enough money to make that Sunderland squad functional, far more than any of their subsequent managers have had, and the truth is that he left them with a load of shit they had to sell at a loss or give away completely, that's why I don't like the idea of him being the guy spending £100m to make us competitive in the premier league.

[Clampy]

£80.44 million recouped between 2009/10 and 2011/12, so he spent very little in total.

He hasn't really spent a great deal here either.

[cdbearsfan]

Sunderland were 16th when he left, so suggesting that they were "down" is just telling fibs.

Or it's having lots of family and friends who support them who all said that they were on their way down that season.  From the end of the January when we got Bent from them until he was sacked they had 5 wins, 5 draws and 17 defeats.  You can't spin that as a guy who was doing a good job.  Most of the people I know put it down to him signing far too many players (they spent about £30m but spread it on 13 players) in the summer when what they needed was 3-4 good signings.  Again, that's almost exactly like Lambert after his first season with us, or what Sherwood did.

Regardless of opinions, the truth is he wasn't in the relegation zone when he was dismissed, so counting that as another relegation against him is, obviously, complete bollocks. He may well have been doing badly but, clearly, four teams were doing worse than him. You only need three to be worse to stay up.

If you check teams' forums around November-December time you can find about eight or nine clubs who are certain that their manager is going to take them down. They aren't all right.

[dicedlam]

Whether he deserves a crack at the premier league or not, going by some of his previous purchases (especially at Sunderland), I personally wouldn't trust him to spend in excess of a 100 million quid.

It's also worth remembering that these days £100 million doesn't stretch very far on decent players. Your average no mark goes for
£10 million and then some. So whatever we did have to spend, it would have to be spent very, very wisely.

[malckennedy]

Sunderland were 16th when he left, so suggesting that they were "down" is just telling fibs.

Or it's having lots of family and friends who support them who all said that they were on their way down that season.  From the end of the January when we got Bent from them until he was sacked they had 5 wins, 5 draws and 17 defeats.  You can't spin that as a guy who was doing a good job.  Most of the people I know put it down to him signing far too many players (they spent about £30m but spread it on 13 players) in the summer when what they needed was 3-4 good signings.  Again, that's almost exactly like Lambert after his first season with us, or what Sherwood did.

This why the amount he spent matters, the fixation with net spend on here is silly sometimes, if you have £100m to spend it's worth the same regardless of whether it's come from selling a superstar for a fortune or from the owners bank account.  If you sign shit like Connor Wickham for £12m he's still shit regardless of where the money came from.  He had more than enough money to make that Sunderland squad functional, far more than any of their subsequent managers have had, and the truth is that he left them with a load of shit they had to sell at a loss or give away completely, that's why I don't like the idea of him being the guy spending £100m to make us competitive in the premier league.

Sunderland have been a shittily run club on a severe downward spiral for as many years as we had been before our own descent was halted in the last year or so. Their descent hasn’t been halted though. But my point is that any manager at that club during this period was about as likely to succeed as the poor sods who tried to do the impossible job of saving us during the second half of Lerner’s tenure. Being 16th in that environment could be seen as relative success.

[Toronto Villa]

I agree with that Paul. He still spent close to £100m. Irrespective of where he got the money from. And that’s the challenge. If the Doc gives him or anyone else £100m are we signing proven talent or real potential or left with duds like Wickam or Gyan for hefty fees. His record in that final summer window with Sunderland when he bought a good number of players is horrible.

[manic-road]

Blimey, Bruce is getting hammered now for signings at other clubs. I don't care what he has done at other clubs as the circumstances could have been wildly different for him. Plus the draw of clubs of the likes of Wigan Blose Hull and Sunderland isn't going to appeal to very good/great players.

I do care about what he does at Villa, and at the moment I think he's doing an OK job. After the past 6 years of abject failure the club seemed rotten from top to bottom and to turn that around isn't a 5 minute fix whatever you think. If he gets us up I'd like to see him stay at the Villa, I know a lot of football fans are terribly fickle and want it all now but I can't see the owner getting rid if he gains promotion.

[Clampy]

Blimey, Bruce is getting hammered now for signings at other clubs. I don't care what he has done at other clubs as the circumstances could have been wildly different for him. Plus the draw of clubs of the likes of Wigan Blose Hull and Sunderland isn't going to appeal to very good/great players.

I do care about what he does at Villa, and at the moment I think he's doing an OK job. After the past 6 years of abject failure the club seemed rotten from top to bottom and to turn that around isn't a 5 minute fix whatever you think. If he gets us up I'd like to see him stay at the Villa, I know a lot of football fans are terribly fickle and want it all now but I can't see the owner getting rid if he gains promotion.

I can only presume that the one's on here who have spent his time here constantly finding fault with what he's done are now finding it difficult to have a go at the moment so are either harking back to last season or now, his previous clubs. Each to their own of course.

[sickbeggar]

The problem is that in those examples the years where he's got relegated (2 and he was taking Sunderland down just as much as Lambert was taking us down) they tend to be the ones where he's spent big money.

My biggest issue was always that if he got us promoted he'd probably not last out the first season and we'd be left finding someone to sort things out with a squad full of Bruce signings that would be tough to replace.  It's the same reason why we were fucked after MON because we had very few players who could play anything other than the style he'd gone with and far too many players towards the end of their career on big money.  We've fucked up 1 chance at establishing ourselves near the top by giving the wrong man too much rope and I don't want us to make the same mistake again.

Yep, i'm sure the club would give him the money to start the season and see what he can do, Unfortunately the morally right thing to do is not necessarily the right thing for the club

[Toronto Villa]

It’s possible to have commentary about the managerial history of Steve Bruce specific to player acquisition without it being immediately perceived as a criticism of him. All managers buy players that don’t work out or spend money that ends up being a waste. Heck we saw it up close with MON.

As it relates to our current manager he is likely to be the one identifying players accompanied by a significant budget if we do go up. I just hope that his eye for talent has improved. But that also goes for the people around him starting with Wyness and Round.

[paul_e]

Or they're sharing a long held concern that, in my case at least, was literally the first problem i had with him coming in.

[PeterWithesShin]

Talking about what the manager has done before us is a pretty common thing, like mentioning his previous promotions at other clubs. We've done it with most if not all our managers, and we'd definitely be doing it whoever was in charge in the context of who could be looking at buying if we're promoted.