Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[paul_e]

Drummond,  this is getting dull now but I've just explained that our form in October was poor as well so it's not focusing on August, it's focusing on inconsistency.  For every good period there has been a poor one where we've wasted a lot of the progress. Because of that I personally don't feel confident that we'll make the top 2.

You then started slicing bits out of the season to prove me wrong, accused me of moaning and whining and have called every reply patronising. I'm actually quite proud that I've managed to get someone so worked up with no effort but I can't work out how.

[Gregorys Boy]

We do drop silly points at times, but I still think the form this season has mostly been consistent at least the last month or two.

[paul_e]

I would position it this way. We very much underachieved for the early part of the season given our resources, squad depth and manager who has a lot of experience and success at this level. But since he steadied the ship we’ve done exactly as we should have done. Hypothetically had we started the season at an above average pace we’d probably be very close to top right now. We didn’t and there’s nothing that can be done about that. What’s evident recently is that Bruce has come across a system/formula/Strategy, whatever you want to call it, through his ability or luck (probably both) that seems to work. And if we keep going along this path given all of the assets we have at the club we should be promoted come May.

I mostly agree but then performances like Wolves and Sheffield Wednesday come to mind and make me think that the gap is still too wide right now.  4 wins and a draw or 2 in December and I'll believe that we've truly turned the corner, much less than that and it'll be treading water again.  We've got the players to go on a 10-12 game unbeaten run but we now need to go and get it done.  Then we can start looking at auto promotion seriously.

[Clampy]

Going through the whole of December unbeaten would be lovely but it's possible that we'll slip up somewhere but as long as we bounce back from it, I don't think it will be a problem.

[john e]

last season RDM and Bruce reached special heights of shitness but that's gone now we can forget about it

this season Bruce is doing exactly the job he was bought in to do, he is performing exactly to the very letter how i thought he would when we appointed him

the last game i went to was Sunderland at home, we won and it was a supreme example of a Bruce performance, i know we have played better but in general it was fairy typical, it was a perfect example of how Bruce gets teams up out of this league and the reason i never wanted him

i dont believe in the 'lets get up and then plan' theory or the '3 seperate teams' bullshit,
 but i do believe that Bruce can get us up and even if i hate the way he's doing it with zero thought for the future or anything built to last when we do go up i have to accept we have got to get out of this league,

i don't agree its the only way to do it, the 'i dont care how bad it is as long as we go up' stuff is really the most pathetic nonsense i read on here, and i dont believe Bruce is anywhere near good enough for us long term

he might be the promotion specialist but he's also pretty damn good at relegations as well, and if we do manage to go up by stealth it would be very harsh to get rid of him and i don't think we would, but that's if we do go up so i suppose we can cross that bridge when it comes

we have seen a few old school British managers get jobs recently, Pardew, Moyes, Allardyce they might all do 'a job' for the clubs does'nt mean they are the right man or the fans will ever want them,
media lovies just like Bruce pundits who never say anything negative about them but keep swallowing the rubbish served up week by week

i don't post much on here for obvious reasons, its pointless banging on about 'Bruce out' when you lie 4th in the league and i never have called for 'Bruce out' because i never wanted him in the first place
but i haven't changed my view on him just because we are 4th in the Championship, he's doing what i thought he would do and i still think we will live to regret the time we will have wasted on Bruce as our manager

[chrisw1]

This injury list is looking awful now.  We'll do well to if we come through December without losing much ground in my view.

[Drummond]

Drummond,  this is getting dull now but I've just explained that our form in October was poor as well so it's not focusing on August, it's focusing on inconsistency.  For every good period there has been a poor one where we've wasted a lot of the progress. Because of that I personally don't feel confident that we'll make the top 2.

You then started slicing bits out of the season to prove me wrong, accused me of moaning and whining and have called every reply patronising. I'm actually quite proud that I've managed to get someone so worked up with no effort but I can't work out how.

Ah so who's slicing bits of the season now? First it was just August now it's October too. So you're saying we've had poor form for half of what we've played and yet we're 4th. In better form than everyone bar Wolves.

I don't call every reply patronising, just the ones that are; if that happens to be a lot of them then perhaps you should consider what you put in your posts as I'm not the only to think so.

You feel we've had bad periods that will stop us going up, I'm saying that if you count back any number of games up to the first two we've been in better form than everyone bar Wolves, even if we've had a blip or defeat. So, please enlighten me as to why you think our inconsistency will cause us not to be promoted when it hasn't affected so far.

As for managing to get someone so worked up and being proud of it, I think that says far more about you, your posting style and attitude than anyone else. Is troll the word?

[Clampy]

Two defeats since August is not inconsistent however many times someone insists on telling you it is.

As for John's comment on Bruce long term, I totally understand that side of the argument. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out if we do go up.

[Drummond]

Two defeats since August is not inconsistent however many times someone insists on telling you it is.

As for John's comment on Bruce long term, I totally understand that side of the argument. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out if we do go up.

Agree. There was a run of LWDWL that could be argued as being inconsistent as a small part but given it was sandwiched in between 7 other wins it could be argued that it's not really been that bad. ie WWWWLWDWLWWW

And I agree re John's point. Bruce is doing what we wanted and expected. Who knows if he can take it up a division with a better budget and far better infrastructure and club. I hope he can though the jury is definitely out.

[Chris Smith]

last season RDM and Bruce reached special heights of shitness but that's gone now we can forget about it

this season Bruce is doing exactly the job he was bought in to do, he is performing exactly to the very letter how i thought he would when we appointed him

the last game i went to was Sunderland at home, we won and it was a supreme example of a Bruce performance, i know we have played better but in general it was fairy typical, it was a perfect example of how Bruce gets teams up out of this league and the reason i never wanted him

i dont believe in the 'lets get up and then plan' theory or the '3 seperate teams' bullshit,
 but i do believe that Bruce can get us up and even if i hate the way he's doing it with zero thought for the future or anything built to last when we do go up i have to accept we have got to get out of this league,

i don't agree its the only way to do it, the 'i dont care how bad it is as long as we go up' stuff is really the most pathetic nonsense i read on here, and i dont believe Bruce is anywhere near good enough for us long term

he might be the promotion specialist but he's also pretty damn good at relegations as well, and if we do manage to go up by stealth it would be very harsh to get rid of him and i don't think we would, but that's if we do go up so i suppose we can cross that bridge when it comes

we have seen a few old school British managers get jobs recently, Pardew, Moyes, Allardyce they might all do 'a job' for the clubs does'nt mean they are the right man or the fans will ever want them,
media lovies just like Bruce pundits who never say anything negative about them but keep swallowing the rubbish served up week by week

i don't post much on here for obvious reasons, its pointless banging on about 'Bruce out' when you lie 4th in the league and i never have called for 'Bruce out' because i never wanted him in the first place
but i haven't changed my view on him just because we are 4th in the Championship, he's doing what i thought he would do and i still think we will live to regret the time we will have wasted on Bruce as our manager

Why is it it bullshit to suggest that we will need different players to progress in the PL compared to getting out of this division? It doesn’t mean swapping the whole squad over the summer but instead building on the best of the current group and moving on those surplus to requirements. I am sure people will throw the bomb squad argument around but the fact that those players have featured in a promotion winning team will put them in a different bracket to what happened previously.

It would be madness for the club to say it explicitly but I am certain similar thoughts will be in place as far as the manager is concerned. With Steve Round overseeing recruitment you would hope that when the change happens, as it inevitably will at some point, it should be far more seamless than the upheavals of the past.

[Clampy]

Two defeats since August is not inconsistent however many times someone insists on telling you it is.

As for John's comment on Bruce long term, I totally understand that side of the argument. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out if we do go up.

Agree. There was a run of LWDWL that could be argued as being inconsistent as a small part but given it was sandwiched in between 7 other wins it could be argued that it's not really been that bad. ie WWWWLWDWLWWW

And I agree re John's point. Bruce is doing what we wanted and expected. Who knows if he can take it up a division with a better budget and far better infrastructure and club. I hope he can though the jury is definitely out.

Mind you, if we lose tonight it will have been a bad December.

[Tony Erdington]

Dirty leeds cant beat us, so it will have been an exceptional December. lol

[KevinGage]

last season RDM and Bruce reached special heights of shitness but that's gone now we can forget about it

this season Bruce is doing exactly the job he was bought in to do, he is performing exactly to the very letter how i thought he would when we appointed him

the last game i went to was Sunderland at home, we won and it was a supreme example of a Bruce performance, i know we have played better but in general it was fairy typical, it was a perfect example of how Bruce gets teams up out of this league and the reason i never wanted him

i dont believe in the 'lets get up and then plan' theory or the '3 seperate teams' bullshit,
 but i do believe that Bruce can get us up and even if i hate the way he's doing it with zero thought for the future or anything built to last when we do go up i have to accept we have got to get out of this league,

i don't agree its the only way to do it, the 'i dont care how bad it is as long as we go up' stuff is really the most pathetic nonsense i read on here, and i dont believe Bruce is anywhere near good enough for us long term

he might be the promotion specialist but he's also pretty damn good at relegations as well, and if we do manage to go up by stealth it would be very harsh to get rid of him and i don't think we would, but that's if we do go up so i suppose we can cross that bridge when it comes

we have seen a few old school British managers get jobs recently, Pardew, Moyes, Allardyce they might all do 'a job' for the clubs does'nt mean they are the right man or the fans will ever want them,
media lovies just like Bruce pundits who never say anything negative about them but keep swallowing the rubbish served up week by week

i don't post much on here for obvious reasons, its pointless banging on about 'Bruce out' when you lie 4th in the league and i never have called for 'Bruce out' because i never wanted him in the first place
but i haven't changed my view on him just because we are 4th in the Championship, he's doing what i thought he would do and i still think we will live to regret the time we will have wasted on Bruce as our manager

The teams that have gone up and stayed up have -for the most part- had consistent personnel and a style of play that has carried over to the top flight.  Watford are just about the only team I can recall in recent memory ripping the whole thing up and starting again when they got to the top division.

It is a risk, continuing with Bruce should we get up. But then so is trying to integrate practically a whole new team in one pre season. As we ourselves found to our cost in 15/16.  What is the lesser of two evils there?  I'm honestly not sure.

But let's worry about getting up first.

If we do go up -and then pay him off- he will be just about the only manager in the last ten years who has actually earned his pay-off.

[paul_e]

I honestly can't be bothered trying to explain things to people who don't want to listen any more so carry on, I think I'll just follow John's example and leave this thread alone for a bit.

[Drummond]

I honestly can't be bothered trying to explain things to people who don't want to listen any more so carry on, I think I'll just follow John's example and leave this thread alone for a bit.

Thanks for letting us know, much appreciated.