Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Drummond]

Agree Paul and would add that the McCormack/Hogan debacle underscores the dangers of making large amounts of money too freely available by the owners.  Hence my post that Ellis in the same situation would have demanded a much greater degree of pragmatism.  Not for issues of principle or propriety but because he was a tight arse.

And then the complaints would be against the owner for not spending enough.

One of the main complaints with Ellis was him not buying those two extra players we needed....

[Clampy]

I don't think anyone apart from those involved will know what really went on with RM but I don't know how a manager can be expected to pick a player who doesn't turn up for training.

[exigo]

Agree Paul and would add that the McCormack/Hogan debacle underscores the dangers of making large amounts of money too freely available by the owners.  Hence my post that Ellis in the same situation would have demanded a much greater degree of pragmatism.  Not for issues of principle or propriety but because he was a tight arse.

This is the same Douglas Ellis that let a £9.5 million Angel get largely abandoned in a hotel, and spunked best part of £7 milion on Bosko Balaban. That Doug Ellis?

[Mister E]

Agree Paul and would add that the McCormack/Hogan debacle underscores the dangers of making large amounts of money too freely available by the owners.  Hence my post that Ellis in the same situation would have demanded a much greater degree of pragmatism.  Not for issues of principle or propriety but because he was a tight arse.

This is the same Douglas Ellis that let a £9.5 million Angel get largely abandoned in a hotel, and spunked best part of £7 milion on Bosko Balaban. That Doug Ellis?

And the one that salved his ego by bringing Daveeeed Ginolaaaah in?

[paul_e]

I don't think anyone apart from those involved will know what really went on with RM but I don't know how a manager can be expected to pick a player who doesn't turn up for training.

You see no other options between picking him in the 11 and outing him as an unprofessional waste of space?

[Clampy]

I don't think anyone apart from those involved will know what really went on with RM but I don't know how a manager can be expected to pick a player who doesn't turn up for training.

You see no other options between picking him in the 11 and outing him as an unprofessional waste of space?

Like I said, we don't know what went on. What we do know is he missed several training sessions. The fact that the board have allowed their £12m investment to go out on loan twice does suggest they were all in agreement.

[paul_e]

I don't think anyone apart from those involved will know what really went on with RM but I don't know how a manager can be expected to pick a player who doesn't turn up for training.

You see no other options between picking him in the 11 and outing him as an unprofessional waste of space?

Like I said, we don't know what went on. What we do know is he missed several training sessions. The fact that the board have allowed their £12m investment to go out on loan twice does suggest they were all in agreement.

It might suggest that, it might also suggest damage limitation or a number of other things.  I agree we don't know what happened other than what Bruce has said, that might be all of the story or it might not, but that doesn't stop Bruce's response leading to a £12m player now being worth fuck all to us. Suggesting that people are just using any excuse to have a go because of it is just you projecting that the only reason people don't agree with you on Bruce is because they have some sort of personal problem with him, which is bullshit.  You like to talk about opinions but you show absolutely no respect for anyone else's whilst demanding the right to your own and it is getting a bit old now.

[chrisw1]

I don't think anyone apart from those involved will know what really went on with RM but I don't know how a manager can be expected to pick a player who doesn't turn up for training.

You see no other options between picking him in the 11 and outing him as an unprofessional waste of space?

Like I said, we don't know what went on. What we do know is he missed several training sessions. The fact that the board have allowed their £12m investment to go out on loan twice does suggest they were all in agreement.

It might suggest that, it might also suggest damage limitation or a number of other things.  I agree we don't know what happened other than what Bruce has said, that might be all of the story or it might not, but that doesn't stop Bruce's response leading to a £12m player now being worth fuck all to us. Suggesting that people are just using any excuse to have a go because of it is just you projecting that the only reason people don't agree with you on Bruce is because they have some sort of personal problem with him, which is bullshit.  You like to talk about opinions but you show absolutely no respect for anyone else's whilst demanding the right to your own and it is getting a bit old now.

Paul, I absolutely agree with your opinion on the treatment of McCormack.  But I don't think Clampy is that far off the mark when he says that it appears some people will look for any reason they can to knock Bruce.  That seems pretty self evident to me.   

[XXVilla]

I think the signings of first two transfer windows could at best be described as scattergun.

[Chris Smith]

Agree Paul and would add that the McCormack/Hogan debacle underscores the dangers of making large amounts of money too freely available by the owners.  Hence my post that Ellis in the same situation would have demanded a much greater degree of pragmatism.  Not for issues of principle or propriety but because he was a tight arse.

If you think that then Round should be the target surely?

[olaftab]

It has taken a while but we are going in the right direction. Hopefully the momentum is with us. I do personally think that some fans need to man up and stop throwing their toys out of the pram every time we drop points. We are Villa, we shouldn't be in this division but we are so grow a pair and deal with it.

What does man up exactly mean? Are you saying we should just get used to being not being good enough? If so well we have had 6 years of it so I don’t want to man up in the second tier. I will throw my toys out of the pram if we again fail to beat crap like Small heath and lose at home to mediocre teams like Sheffield Wednesday.

[Villa75]

It has taken a while but we are going in the right direction. Hopefully the momentum is with us. I do personally think that some fans need to man up and stop throwing their toys out of the pram every time we drop points. We are Villa, we shouldn't be in this division but we are so grow a pair and deal with it.

What does man up exactly mean? Are you saying we should just get used to being not being good enough? If so well we have had 6 years of it so I don’t want to man up in the second tier. I will throw my toys out of the pram if we again fail to beat crap like Small heath and lose at home to mediocre teams like Sheffield Wednesday.

I think he means, accept mediocrity without complaint.

It obviously works for him. But it's not for me.

[Chris Smith]

It has taken a while but we are going in the right direction. Hopefully the momentum is with us. I do personally think that some fans need to man up and stop throwing their toys out of the pram every time we drop points. We are Villa, we shouldn't be in this division but we are so grow a pair and deal with it.

What does man up exactly mean? Are you saying we should just get used to being not being good enough? If so well we have had 6 years of it so I don’t want to man up in the second tier. I will throw my toys out of the pram if we again fail to beat crap like Small heath and lose at home to mediocre teams like Sheffield Wednesday.

Then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. It is totally unrealistic to expect it to be all plain sailing without the odd setback along the way.

[Clampy]

It has taken a while but we are going in the right direction. Hopefully the momentum is with us. I do personally think that some fans need to man up and stop throwing their toys out of the pram every time we drop points. We are Villa, we shouldn't be in this division but we are so grow a pair and deal with it.

What does man up exactly mean? Are you saying we should just get used to being not being good enough? If so well we have had 6 years of it so I don’t want to man up in the second tier. I will throw my toys out of the pram if we again fail to beat crap like Small heath and lose at home to mediocre teams like Sheffield Wednesday.

Then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. It is totally unrealistic to expect it to be all plain sailing without the odd setback along the way.

Absolutely. There are going to be bumps in the road unfortunatley, it's just the way it is.

[Ad@m]

It has taken a while but we are going in the right direction. Hopefully the momentum is with us. I do personally think that some fans need to man up and stop throwing their toys out of the pram every time we drop points. We are Villa, we shouldn't be in this division but we are so grow a pair and deal with it.

What does man up exactly mean? Are you saying we should just get used to being not being good enough? If so well we have had 6 years of it so I don’t want to man up in the second tier. I will throw my toys out of the pram if we again fail to beat crap like Small heath and lose at home to mediocre teams like Sheffield Wednesday.

Then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. It is totally unrealistic to expect it to be all plain sailing without the odd setback along the way.

Of course it is but I don't expect us to have more setbacks than the likes of Cardiff and Sheffield United.

There is no logical reason why either of them should be above us in the league - we've got better players, more money, better facilities, better infrastructure, etc, etc. The only explanation as far as I can see is that their managers have done a better job so far.