Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Steve67]

Bruce said he wants to strengthen in every area, we have three months to get the players in and bonded etc. Therefore, I hope we get our business done quickly, well before the deadline or we face yet more bedding in of players.   I also dread who we get because whilst they might be exciting names, I don't want us to coach the shit out of their creativity and turn them into nervous wrecks or millionaire can't be arsed's.  Nice guy but I have very little faith in him. I might feel different if our season was ending on a little run of unbeaten games and we were playing well.

[PeterWithesShin]

10 years ago yesterday was "Bright Future" scarf day. As we walked off the pitch having beaten Sheff Utd 3-0 I wonder what odds you'd have got that a decade later we'd be a mid-table division 2 side debating if Steve Bruce should have another season.

[TonyD]

2,500 to 1

[VinnieChase84]

Bruce won't be in charge come November imo

[Steve67]

Bruce won't be in charge come November imo

If the board think that this is the risk, should they take it or should they use the lull that is the next month in bringing someone else in?

[ROBBO]

He has bought expensive players in already that he cannot get the best out of in fact their form has deteriorated, the side has no structure and tactics seems to be a dirty word, whether he should go surely depends on who his replacement would be.

[paul_e]

The table doesn't lie which is why if we dialled it back 12 months and found ourselves supporting Huddersfield, people.on this board would be moaning that Wagnar hadn't improved us one bit and should be sacked for finishing 19th. But they didn't.

You keep making that assumption but it's not really true.  People are saying that the biggest problem is that there has been very little change for the 7 months he's been here, the football is the same; the post-match comments are the same; the 'kid in a sweet shop' approach to signings in Jan was the same as the last 2 summers.  To overlook that you need much better results than we've seen

If you do a custom table since he arrived we're 17/18 points behind the top 2, extend that over a season and we're looking at needing to improve by about 23-24 points or 8 wins and in the same period, we're the 5th lowest scorers in the league despite having spent the best part of £40m on strikers.  In his favour we're also the 5th best defence in that period but having a solid defence only wins you games if you're scoring yourself, and getting us scoring consistently has been a constant problem.  To simplify things, if you're scoring goals it does a lot more to mask problems than keeping clean sheets does because a team that's scoring goals always has hope. If keeping clean sheets is what you do to win games your plan is fucked if you concede, us picking up 4 points from losing positions under Bruce highlights that perfectly and struggling to get back into games isn't a new thing for him, it's a problem he's had for most of his career and it's why he's always been prone to runs of poor results.

This isn't about patience, it's about the belief that we're on the right track to do everything we can to get back up next season.  Some people may look at his record elsewhere and think that's enough to earn their belief, and that's fine, but this suggestion that people who think we could do better are impatient is unfair.  I've never hidden the fact that I think, he's the wrong manager for us, my reasons are all over this thread but I'd love him to prove me wrong because if I'm wrong then we're doing well but he's had 3/4s of a season and every single fear I had when he came in has come to pass, all season has been 'just enough'.  Just enough chances to score about a goal a game, just enough defensive stability to keep a few clean sheets, just enough points to not be under serious threat of the sack.  Next season will be much the same but probably 'just enough' points to be around the play offs, just enough fans who will ignore the eye-bleeding shite on the pitch that there's never serious, united calls for him to go.

[Toronto Villa]

10 years ago yesterday was "Bright Future" scarf day. As we walked off the pitch having beaten Sheff Utd 3-0 I wonder what odds you'd have got that a decade later we'd be a mid-table division 2 side debating if Steve Bruce should have another season.

I was just thinking about that game the other day. You literally could not have added any more optimism to Villa Park and Villa fans at the full time whistle. Things looks so "bright". Beautiful day, European cup paraded, star on the pitch, MON team playing some outstanding football at VP, Young and Gabby looking like they really would become something big all capped off by a wonderful goal from Berger. Feels 100 years ago let alone 10.

[LukeJames]

The table doesn't lie which is why if we dialled it back 12 months and found ourselves supporting Huddersfield, people.on this board would be moaning that Wagnar hadn't improved us one bit and should be sacked for finishing 19th. But they didn't.

You keep making that assumption but it's not really true.  People are saying that the biggest problem is that there has been very little change for the 7 months he's been here, the football is the same; the post-match comments are the same; the 'kid in a sweet shop' approach to signings in Jan was the same as the last 2 summers.  To overlook that you need much better results than we've seen

If you do a custom table since he arrived we're 17/18 points behind the top 2, extend that over a season and we're looking at needing to improve by about 23-24 points or 8 wins and in the same period, we're the 5th lowest scorers in the league despite having spent the best part of £40m on strikers.  In his favour we're also the 5th best defence in that period but having a solid defence only wins you games if you're scoring yourself, and getting us scoring consistently has been a constant problem.  To simplify things, if you're scoring goals it does a lot more to mask problems than keeping clean sheets does because a team that's scoring goals always has hope. If keeping clean sheets is what you do to win games your plan is fucked if you concede, us picking up 4 points from losing positions under Bruce highlights that perfectly and struggling to get back into games isn't a new thing for him, it's a problem he's had for most of his career and it's why he's always been prone to runs of poor results.

This isn't about patience, it's about the belief that we're on the right track to do everything we can to get back up next season.  Some people may look at his record elsewhere and think that's enough to earn their belief, and that's fine, but this suggestion that people who think we could do better are impatient is unfair.  I've never hidden the fact that I think, he's the wrong manager for us, my reasons are all over this thread but I'd love him to prove me wrong because if I'm wrong then we're doing well but he's had 3/4s of a season and every single fear I had when he came in has come to pass, all season has been 'just enough'.  Just enough chances to score about a goal a game, just enough defensive stability to keep a few clean sheets, just enough points to not be under serious threat of the sack.  Next season will be much the same but probably 'just enough' points to be around the play offs, just enough fans who will ignore the eye-bleeding shite on the pitch that there's never serious, united calls for him to go.

Bang on again.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I think The Edge has put it really well there. We have no choice but to do something crazy, or stupid, or undeserved. Bruce both deserves more time and hasn't earned it. We would be stupid to keep sacking managers and keep putting up with mediocrity. We'd be crazy to think the manager can make all the difference and to blindly keep faith with one who isn't cutting it.

Basically - we're fucked, aren't we.

Yup. It's going to be a very brave call, either way.

My fear is we keep Bruce and sack him some time before Christmas. We then see who's available and end up poaching from Ipswich Mick McCarthy or bringing out of retirement Alan Bloody Pardew. I'd hope the board take a very serious look at who is available this summer and avoid the road crash later in the year.

[ciggiesnbeer]

It sure would be nice to see us play some nice attractive football for a change. Whether thats with Bruce or without doesnt fuss me as much.

[brian green]

We keep rolling the dice.  Conservatism will prevail over the summer and Bruce will stay.  Bruce will be given some money to buy some players.  Not a lot and not to pay for anything more than journeymen squad fillers.  The probability on all the form of the manager, the coaches and the players will be a spluttering start to next season.  Conservatism will hold the line until the season appears to be slipping away again.  Bonfire night will be the night of the long knives and the last man standing will appoint another careful choice.

We have got ourselves into a position where our fear of failure is feeding the culture of failure.  We have been a cautious, timid, negative team ever since Lerner flew to Corsica and brought back Alex McLeish.

[Ads]

How do you know what the budget is or what the targets are?

[Ads]

I'd say starting off 19th and finishing 19th demonstrates no change at all.

[olaftab]

How do you know what the budget is or what the targets are?

And there in lies the problem when you start running a football club on business like basis.