Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Clampy]

I think Ian was just suggesting that he'd like to see him have a pre-season. Obviously though, a decent end to this season would help with confidence more than anything.

[old man villa fan]

After another couple of games we should be safe.  Why not start the pre-season then.  Granted there will still be a couple of players to bring in and some of those out of loan may be coming back but it will be an absolute waste of the time to just take one match at a time.

Bruce has to use the time to develop the system that he will use next season to get us promoted.  If he doesn't, I would question his ability and worse still, his motive.

[ChicagoLion]

He has achieved 7 points out of the last 30 and people want to give him the preseason, let's give him a new contract as well, it's what we do isn't it.
We wonder why we are in the shite we are in.
Rewarding incompetance is a major factor.

[chrisw1]

He has achieved 7 points out of the last 30 and people want to give him the preseason, let's give him a new contract as well, it's what we do isn't it.
We wonder why we are in the shite we are in.
Rewarding incompetance is a major factor.

I don't think many people will be suggesting that if we only achieve 7 out of the next 30.  But if there is significant tangible improvement between now and the end of the season, then giving him another season is a pretty reasonable opinion to have, albeit it won't be shared by everyone.

[john e]

he's got the best gig in the championship along with possibly Newcastle

it should be a piss easy job getting the biggest club spending the most money with one of the best squads into at least a play off place, I don't buy all this difficult task stuff its difficult at Burton Albion and Rotherham not Villa
anyone could get a few results from this team in this league as he has done

but we are sitting in 15 place scraping a few points together to try and stay out of a relegation scrap, and people say he should be getting another window and pre season

its not good enough, the bar is already set too low we don't need to keep setting it any lower

[mattjpa]

Is this the actual Steve Bruce thread? If so, as the biggest avfc fan site I think we should change the name of the thread. People can still argue he needs sacking now/when we are safe/at the end of the season or whatever but I think the vast majority of fans want him here

[olaftab]

I agree this should be merged with main Bruce thread.

[gpbarr]

A surprisingly good and accurate spot on the BBC Sport website about us today - makes many of the points people have made here. We so desperately need some stability because we have been in chaos and free fall for too long

[Gregorys Boy]

he's got the best gig in the championship along with possibly Newcastle

it should be a piss easy job getting the biggest club spending the most money with one of the best squads into at least a play off place, I don't buy all this difficult task stuff its difficult at Burton Albion and Rotherham not Villa
anyone could get a few results from this team in this league as he has done

but we are sitting in 15 place scraping a few points together to try and stay out of a relegation scrap, and people say he should be getting another window and pre season

its not good enough, the bar is already set too low we don't need to keep setting it any lower

But its only fair to judge Bruce next season.  He took over in October and had to take on a bunch of players who either weren't good enough or who just won't applying themselves.  The reason we are struggling in the Championship is the ripple effect of too many managers, too many changes at board room level, and too much players brought in too soon.  Yes the form since the new year has been awful, but chopping and changing got us into this mess.  There's still time to turn things around and at least have a decent end to the season.  Then we build for next season. 

The main difference between us and Newcastle is they were prepared for life in the Championship and we weren't. 

[Jimbo]

Anyone who thinks we were all set to go straight back up, just like Newcastle, hasn't been paying attention for the best part of the last decade.

[ChicagoLion]

I think it is pretty fair to judge him on this season even allowing for extenuating circumstances.
My judgement is, not good enough.

[amfy]

It is true that other teams don't have the financial advantages that we have. However, I remember before Blackburn won the top division people used to say you can't buy the league. Weirdly, I am starting to think that this remains true of this division.

What wins in this division is a well organised set of (often average) players with great team spirit. Buying a new set of stars every 4-6 months isn't going to do it.

I want to see us getting better results and looking more organised as the season goes on. It doesn't have to be spectacular, just an improvement, of the kind we were seeing when he first arrived. Scrapping results, sometimes looking good, looking good more frequently, for longer, just sometimes winning AND looking like we meant it. Just that is enough for me to feel he should stay. The rest can, and I think will, come later if we hold our nerve.

Of course - if we carry on having the kind of poor points return and disjointed football that we saw from Christmas to Mid February (I'd argue that although the first win was Derby, we had stated to look better, e.g. Creating a lot of chances, sooner than that) - then I'd say that we should part ways and give someone else the pre-season, but without much of budget - we need to start to build a team, not keep getting new 'names' in. It's the worst kind of 'moneyball' to buy a load of players who've done well elsewhere without building a team OR making money on them!

[Ian.]

I think Ian was just suggesting that he'd like to see him have a pre-season. Obviously though, a decent end to this season would help with confidence more than anything.

Yes that's exactly what I meant. I think Bruce should have time with this current crop of players, now that half of the team are players he wanted.
To make the amount of changes we did during the January window was unusual and we certainly needed it, but now he needs time to get this squad working together and playing well. That include the remainder of this season and pre-season too.

[avfcpg]

I'm not a great Bruce fan but we may as well stick with him for some stability. However, I think we should be going up next season with this set of players regardless of the manager. I just can't see him as the man to push us on in the Premier League, should we make it there. So we either stick or twist then, or this season.
He needs to really get us playing, performing and winning between now and the end of the season. His "pre season" to prove himself is now, not in June / July / August.

[avfcpg]

I think Ian was just suggesting that he'd like to see him have a pre-season. Obviously though, a decent end to this season would help with confidence more than anything.

Yes that's exactly what I meant. I think Bruce should have time with this current crop of players, now that half of the team are players he wanted.
To make the amount of changes we did during the January window was unusual and we certainly needed it, but now he needs time to get this squad working together and playing well. That include the remainder of this season and pre-season too.

I would argue that if he can't get them playing in January, February, March, April and May then I'm not sure what use giving him a pre-season in June and July are going to be. I think people overplay the "let them gel in pre-season" thing. It's not a miracle cure time of the season.